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graventy posted:In what way am I defending him? This thread has been remarkably dismissive of the rape, even going so far as to say it wasn't rape at all for a few crazy pages. That's the only thing I'm trying to argue. He's a lovely guy, that doesn't mean he deserves his fate. No one deserves their fate in this movie! Apologies, maybe I read a bit too much into that, but yeah, I think this grinding away to establish the magnitude of Christians suffering to be some sort of defense or call of awareness. Even describing his end as a horrific descent is incredibly off the mark for me, I would describe the end of Midsommar as cartoonish catharsis. If you described the rape and immolation of a random person in dry newscaster fashion, sure, that would be horrific. But the movie clearly doesn't view it that way, because clearly the hands operating the camera, editing the film, and directing the movie don't view it that way. In summation, Guy in the Easter Bunny suit in Critters 2 <--Christian--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------->Monica Bellucci in Irréversible
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Jul 16, 2019 23:02
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Something I think is missing from this thread's discourse re: Christian (my apologies if it had indeed been brought up or I'm just crazy and seeing something that's not there), is the way I took the moment where he steals Josh's thesis, which came off to me as something of a plot twist or reveal: before this scene Christian, while undoubtedly a major douche and a lovely boyfriend, mostly came off as just an idiot and emotionally immature. But in this scene and afterward it's like we see his mask slip a bit and he is altogether something much more sinister, maybe even sociopathic. Josh even says something to the effect of "You know exactly what you're doing", and he delivers it with such emphasis it signaled to me that we should extrapolate that to all of Christian's behavior, both what preceded and what comes after.K. Waste posted:Like, in one sense, the feminist critique is absolutely correct. Christian is literally a victim of coercion... I also definitely felt like Christian had a deeper fascination with the cult than realizing they'd make for a killer thesis and I kept waiting for the movie to make it more explicit what exactly interests him so much. The way I saw it is that he admired the way the cult manipulates people and he wanted to study the mental abuse techniques of the masters - holy poo poo they're able to get people to happily kill themselves and each other, I need to get in on this!
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Jul 16, 2019 23:37
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Q: What rune should I use to get my nagging girlfriend to sacrifice herself?
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Jul 16, 2019 23:42
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:Something I think is missing from this thread's discourse re: Christian (my apologies if it had indeed been brought up or I'm just crazy and seeing something that's not there), is the way I took the moment where he steals Josh's thesis, which came off to me as something of a plot twist or reveal: before this scene Christian, while undoubtedly a major douche and a lovely boyfriend, mostly came off as just an idiot and emotionally immature. But in this scene and afterward it's like we see his mask slip a bit and he is altogether something much more sinister, maybe even sociopathic. Josh even says something to the effect of "You know exactly what you're doing", and he delivers it with such emphasis it signaled to me that we should extrapolate that to all of Christian's behavior, both what preceded and what comes after. Yeah I mentioned that a little bit many pages back. That’s when you really realize he’s not just a bad boyfriend but an all around lovely, selfish person
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Jul 16, 2019 23:46
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lotta dirtbag boyfriends in this thread
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Jul 17, 2019 00:24
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JudgeX posted:lotta dirtbag boyfriends in this thread buncha luke p's if you ask me
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Jul 17, 2019 02:53
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JudgeX posted:lotta dirtbag boyfriends in this thread That's very inconsiderate of their dirtbag feelings.
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Jul 17, 2019 10:44
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Rewatching the movie last night really sold K. WASTE's argument to me, but also I'm now convinced Christian is a sociopath. I also noticed more small details, like in the beginning when the trip is first brought up during the party, Pelle is watching Dani the entire time for her reaction or subtle reference that everyone in the commune intuits that Dani is special. She is watched and stared at by commune members in most scenes, and every interaction with an Elder is either directed at her or presented in such a way to include her. I also noticed the face in the threes in the 3rd act that people had mentioned, and had tried to see if there were more. Seeing it a second time let me soak more of it without worrying about where it was going. The humor really landed more with me, but my audience was quieter/more serious this time. I saw it with three friends and they all loved it as well.
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Jul 17, 2019 12:16
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QuoProQuid posted:buncha luke p's if you ask me Natural progression of the thread right here
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Jul 17, 2019 13:12
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:Something I think is missing from this thread's discourse re: Christian (my apologies if it had indeed been brought up or I'm just crazy and seeing something that's not there), is the way I took the moment where he steals Josh's thesis, which came off to me as something of a plot twist or reveal: before this scene Christian, while undoubtedly a major douche and a lovely boyfriend, mostly came off as just an idiot and emotionally immature. But in this scene and afterward it's like we see his mask slip a bit and he is altogether something much more sinister, maybe even sociopathic. Josh even says something to the effect of "You know exactly what you're doing", and he delivers it with such emphasis it signaled to me that we should extrapolate that to all of Christian's behavior, both what preceded and what comes after.
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Jul 17, 2019 13:15
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saw this last night, and liked it a lot. Not quite as good as Hereditary, but also much less immediate than that movie, I think. This one begs for a second viewing even more, and I'm excited to give it one and keep an eye out for all the details assuredly scattered around.
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Jul 17, 2019 13:54
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Guilty posted:I agree, and there's also the fact that we like never once see Christian pick up a pen, compared with Josh who constantly has notebooks and laptops with him recording everything. Pretty much all of Christian's interview questions to the Elders are about dating or sex, and Josh's are about spiritual practice or practical, like how they choose an Oracle, how the Commune is funded, etc. Christian only cares about the sensational aspects of the cult, like he's trying to make them fit the mold/stereotype of what he thought a Commune was when he signed up for the trip. Unrelated, but one of my favorite jokes in the film is the music that plays at the arrival to the commune being revealed as diegetic, and the musicians follow people around.
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Jul 17, 2019 14:21
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Aster should be making interpersonal drama movies and not horror. This movie sets up some absolutely fantastic character dynamics - a group of people who (mostly) are very believable, have understandable goals and flaws with legitimately interesting relationships. Similarly to the scene where the brother gets home and flops in bed in Hereditary, this films opening made me feel absolutely sick: It was a perfect, masterful depiction of the kind of stomach-churning-grief that can change a person forever. The relationship set up between Dani, her boyfriend and the catalysing friends was the perfect mix of tension to bubble under the surface of he narrative. And then at the end people walk around and look at the camera confused for 40 minutes, with the movie almost randomly injecting weird imagery as if to say “it’s a horror! Look! Are ya scared yet? It’s a scaaaaary horror movie!!!!” Hereditary kiiiiiiiinda had a similar problem. In both movies you can argue the ending is “a manifestation of the characters problems come to symbolic fruition” but it’s just not interesting. At the end of this movie I had no idea what I was meant to feel, and the most I can really summon reflecting on it is a “so what?” Whatt he movie is doing, on paper, is interesting; it's exploring indoctrination. The kind of outsiders that could be "drawn" to the cult are people who have lost something - Dani, in this case, really wants a new family (Pelle's sphiel is what gets her to stay, and it's what he found in the cult). In order for her to be "fully" absorbed she then needs to give up a piece of her old life herself in the form of Chris. The problem is that none of it is loving interesting to watch and it's presented in near comical fashion. The more I think about the ending of theis movie the more it pisses me off. VVVVVVV: I'm not saying good people, but I think Josh/Chris are believable and I buy their interactions. Really loving weird no one called Josh out though - I'd be pissed if my friend got me to watch a ritual suicide "for a laugh" Calico Heart fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Jul 17, 2019 |
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Jul 17, 2019 15:19
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Calico Heart posted:Aster should be making interpersonal drama movies and not horror. I could see this argument for Hereditary (i’d still disagree though cuz Hereditary was scary as gently caress) but Midsommar has only one even close to well rounded character and it’s Dani
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Jul 17, 2019 15:21
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Ari really tapped into something real with Christain, he's such a genuine dirtbag college kid.
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Jul 17, 2019 15:39
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Elderbean posted:Ari really tapped into something real with Christain, he's such a genuine dirtbag college kid. "Just smoked some resin at Mark's and now we're getting pizza" is a pretty incredible first line.
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Jul 17, 2019 15:45
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Magic Hate Ball posted:"Just smoked some resin at Mark's and now we're getting pizza" is a pretty incredible first line. The delivery too. I immediately hated him lol
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Jul 17, 2019 15:58
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So what's the moral of this movie?
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Jul 17, 2019 16:36
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a new study bible! posted:So what's the moral of this movie? trip balls and burn bears erryday
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Jul 17, 2019 16:38
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Do some research before you visit a cult.
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Jul 17, 2019 16:44
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Yew Tree extract is not an efficient pain killer.
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Jul 17, 2019 16:45
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If you don’t want to be in a relationship, don’t be in a relationship.
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Jul 17, 2019 16:52
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Don't be a boor, or you'll be a bear.
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Jul 17, 2019 16:56
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Don’t drink the hallucination laced tea.
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Jul 17, 2019 17:22
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Non-joke version: the only true utopia is one you can leave
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Jul 17, 2019 17:25
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The real treasure was the friends you sacrificed along the way
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Jul 17, 2019 17:51
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a new study bible! posted:So what's the moral of this movie? I think whatever moral (if any, I don't think every movie NEEDS a moral) this movie has depends on the viewers own experiences. It's an insight into what it feels like when an abusive relationship slowly implodes, and whatever you take out of that is what you get. This film could've nixed the deaths and replaced Swedish Cult with a trip to Disneyland, and that implosion would still be an inevitability. I think all the spooky poo poo is just incredibly beautiful window dressing, for better or worse. I walked away from Midsommar finding a lot of similarities between Dani and Christians interactions and my own toxic relationships, and I can def understand someone who hasn't gone through similar to not be hit by those moments the same way I was. Not pretending to know anyone's personal history or saying criticisms about the structure aren't valid unless you're watching in my same mindset, but I suppose my point is ymmv v  v
Ibexaz fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jul 17, 2019 |
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Jul 17, 2019 18:16
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a new study bible! posted:So what's the moral of this movie? Goofus ignores the mental health and well being of his girlfriend and stays in the relationship way longer than he should, Gallant draws a nice portrait of her for her birthday and inducts her into his cult
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Jul 17, 2019 18:41
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Drive an electric car
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Jul 17, 2019 18:52
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QuoProQuid posted:buncha luke p's if you ask me Midsommar and The Bachelorette are more similar than they are different. Change my mind. (The bear suit ritual is a metaphor for the symbolic self-immolation of the season's villain getting boo'ed on "The Men Tell All." Christian was there for the wrong reasons.)
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Jul 17, 2019 19:54
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I can see the comparisons to Hostel, not in the filmmaking or the execution but the general idea of being a dumb idiot American tourist stuck in a culture you don't understand and have openly mocked.
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Jul 18, 2019 02:00
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I never tire of that stereotype because it's just so accurate.
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Jul 18, 2019 12:03
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Elderbean posted:I can see the comparisons to Hostel, not in the filmmaking or the execution but the general idea of being a dumb idiot American tourist stuck in a culture you don't understand and have openly mocked. Structurally they're similar. A few opening scenes of horror, then mostly a comedic first half, and then a horrific 2nd half.
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Jul 18, 2019 12:27
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Franchescanado posted:Structurally they're similar. A few opening scenes of horror, then mostly a comedic first half, and then a horrific 2nd half. It's been years since I watched Hostel, but I dont think theyre comparable because Midsommar deals with the aftermath of violence while Hostel revels in the act itself.
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Jul 18, 2019 17:26
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Gejimayu posted:It's been years since I watched Hostel, but I dont think theyre comparable because Midsommar deals with the aftermath of violence while Hostel revels in the act itself. That doesn't negate what I said at all. I am talking about the actual way the movie is structured, with both concentrating on comedy and setting up characters in the first half, and then the second building into horror / violence. Hostel doesn't get into the torture or violence until the 2nd half of the film. The first half is them on vacation, loving around with locals, and then their friend going missing. Their friend going missing is the catalyst that pushes it into horror. Before that it's just a sex comedy. And, really, both play with the impending threat of violence/death. But you're right, Hostel revels in it, Midsommar is almost clinical about it in parts.
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Jul 18, 2019 17:36
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Franchescanado posted:That doesn't negate what I said at all. I am talking about the actual way the movie is structured, with both concentrating on comedy and setting up characters in the first half, and then the second building into horror / violence. Hostel doesn't get into the torture or violence until the 2nd half of the film. The first half is them on vacation, loving around with locals, and then their friend going missing. Their friend going missing is the catalyst that pushes it into horror. Before that it's just a sex comedy. Midsommar is also very, very sparse with its horror.
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Jul 18, 2019 18:01
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Calico Heart posted:Aster should be making interpersonal drama movies and not horror. it's a breakup movie not a horror movie so idk what you're on about
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Jul 18, 2019 21:10
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JudgeX posted:it's a breakup movie not a horror movie so idk what you're on about These are mutually exclusive to you? The Shining and Possession aren't horror movies anymore?
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Jul 18, 2019 21:29
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the shining's not much of a horror movie either and a good comparison. horror's such a loosy-goosy genre anyway b/c the major elements just make good watching. aguirre builds a sense of dread but it's not horror. and adding supernatural elements to a kubrik movie makes it magical realism as much as horror. a lot of midsommar's characterization is weak but calling it horror first and foremost greatly undersells how focused the movie is on dani's journey through a critical point in her life and how the relationships in her life affect her ability to do so. it's freaky as hell, but if it weren't billed as horror, i dont think it would have earned the label.
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Jul 19, 2019 00:46
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Midsommar is also very, very sparse with its horror. It hedges very close to being a musical, which is basically it's one truest nod to The Wicker Man. He kind of scaled it back though and made it more like Vox Lux. gently caress me, there's a double feature. Gejimayu posted:It's been years since I watched Hostel, but I dont think theyre comparable because Midsommar deals with the aftermath of violence while Hostel revels in the act itself. I mean, the opposite is true considering that the extended climax of Hostel is about what someone does in the aftermath of the violence. It's a "rape and revenge" movie, just with a chainsaw as a dick. The entire film is predicated on the endurance of horrific violence and what it does to the character on a totally debasing level. That there is still violence that follows doesn't necessarily conflict with that. Midsommar is very similar in how it goes about not differentiating between the aftermath of violence and its omnipresence. It's just that in this context it's not so much about the post-traumatic stress caused by violence, it's the allure of suicidal ideation. It's a movie where a guy who has a crush on you is basically, like, "Yo, join my big family and be on a roller for random sacrifice auction, let's play Russian Roulette all the years of our lives!" This is where the movie is the most deeply metaphorical, in Pelle's obvious premeditated infatuation with Dani basically coming around to the near certainty that this is a murder-suicide pact. The film is not so much reductively about the violence as it is about the undergirding, dystopian framework of the utopia that Dani's buying into, over-determined by her trauma with visible modernity. JudgeX posted:the shining's not much of a horror movie either and a good comparison. horror's such a loosy-goosy genre -- Yeah, okay, so back it up, then, yeah, it is a loosy-goosy genre, and it obviously includes The Shining. Also, I'm not sure how you're gonna do in this discussion when you're saying that calling anything horror "undersells" it. Pop on over to Horror Thread, you'll see a lot of familiar faces.
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Jul 19, 2019 03:33
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