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Blaze Dragon posted:The localization has a lot of issues and I expect absolutely none of them to get fixed. Sah-KAH-mah-toe-kun
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Jul 19, 2019 18:32
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More pressing than the random pronunciation changes/errors or weird mis-localizations/translations is the fact that the text feels so flat. Feels like the VAs are working overtime to breathe some life in to the game. If they don't fix it I'm probably just gonna watch all the new content online
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Jul 19, 2019 18:38
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Monkey Fracas posted:More pressing than the random pronunciation changes/errors or weird mis-localizations/translations is the fact that the text feels so flat. Feels like the VAs are working overtime to breathe some life in to the game. I can't find the video right now, but in the original Japanese apparently the voice actors didn't realize "I've been working on the railroad" is a song, so when Morgana and Ryuji sing it in mementos they just sorta say it
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Jul 19, 2019 19:21
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I just needed to post this, since I'm replaying P5... I DESPISE Ryuji. Mechanically, he's fine. He's like a more efficient, powered up Kanji, whom I couldn't not use, because he is wonderful. And since you develop his social link so early, it almost doesn't make sense to not max him out, and I'm sure that's the game's intent. So, you'd think if a character is going to be the front and centre, best friend and sidekick to the protagonist, he'd be likable. Or important. Instead, his purpose seems to be making Joker seems better, like a literary wingman. Joker is almost a tabula rasa, though, and has only fleeting personality traits. Personality wise, he's the worst aspects of Kanji and Yosuke mashed together. Now that I think about it, that's kind of what he looks like as well. But I need to go into the why. He's supposed to be a lovably crass rebel, and I get that. But I found myself through both my playthroughs picking the options that either told him to shut up, or keep calm, or stop being so pridefully ignorant. He's easy to dunk on, and it's VERY believable that he has no friends when you meet him. He seems to go out of his way to alienate himself with every member of the team, and he's a bit of a bully as well. Definitely has all the signs of an inferiority complex, and definitely should not have all this power. The case against Ryuji: His big struggle in the game of Kamoshida and the track team pales in comparison to everyone else's problems; which he can only just barely be cajoled into caring about. Worse, while the stakes are low, it could also have easily been solved by just quitting the track team when the coach turned out to be a dick. Or not attacking him because Ryuji is an idiot who thinks he can take on an Olympic athlete in a fight. If he'd kept his head down, the crux of his "bad ending" would have been not getting a track scholarship, and not being able to run. Which is very similar to what happened, except he might have actually retained a social circle. His teammates aren't even totally wrong to dislike him for it, either. So, the backstory behind the character is weak, but his motivations are worse. He's a Phantom Thief for revenge first, and then once he gets it, notoriety. He seems oblivious to the truth that if he comes forward with being a Phantom Thief, he will be arrested, and likely everyone else in the group as well. He's almost no different than Mishima. (Who is a super creep, as well.) Ryuji seems incapable of keeping the secret quiet, to the point where someone in the group should really have been asking him if he was doing it deliberately. He blows their cover to Makoto, plays a hand in tipping Akechi, blurts it out in a sushi restaurant near the height of their popularity, and there's a handful of scenes where I just can't believe no one heard him. It's not just that he's bad with the secret though. He's brash, and all but unintentionally gives away clues to the group's identity to anyone looking into them as well. I can only imagine his interview with the police at Shujin is roughly: Police: So, you had a confrontation with Kamashida? Ryuji: Get hosed, pigs! You can't prove anything! You don't know what he was doing to people in the Metaverse! So, he's dumb, and vainglorious, and doesn't really understand what thieves do. And he's the game's bad student, and very proud of it, and unwilling to try. (Why get a track scholarship, if you're going to spend the rest of your working days at Junes?) Maybe he's a good guy? No. No he's not. As I mentioned, he grates on everyone else in the group, if not actively butting heads with them, except Joker. Once again though, that's because the game doesn't let you openly hate him. He's also way more interested in fame, women and money than any remotely altruistic motive. He's moderately pervy to Ann, but also teases her about her appearance, because he's too stupid to know that is a bit of a hot button issue for her. He's a total prick to Morgana, though that's a two way street. He's so abrasive, and so oblivious to the fact that he's bullying and preying on Morgana's insecurities that Morgana leaves the group to try and show everyone, including himself, that he isn't useless. He never apologizes for it either, even when asked. His "apology" is essentially "I'm sorry you're so worthless." Ryuji may not understand the metaverse, but he does know two things: 1) Morgana thinks he's human, and is desperately trying to be turned back, after MONTHS of living as a cat. I love cats, but living in a world where you're seen as subhuman and can only communicate with 6 people is terrifying. Doubly so, if you're seemingly human mind knows you're more than just a cat. 2) Morgana is super pissed at him, and in a vulnerable, self-destructive state of mind. Everyone around Ryuji has more or less expositioned this out for him. Ryuji just lacks the empathy to care. Morgana is rude to him as well, but Ryuji has far less to fall. Morgana calls him dumb, but Ryuji is FINE with that, outside of bad grades bumming him out for 5 minutes per semester. And Morgana's not wrong. This fucker IS dumb. By the time it gets to the argument between the two, Ryuji has given the group away at least twice, just from not having an inside voice. Ryuji is only a moderate dick to Makoto, mostly staying to safe teasing, like calling her smart, or a goody two shoes, or whatever passes for an insult. I think it's because Makoto holds some serious trumps over him. He can jab at her, but she will dunk on him right back. She's fit, smart, and an honour student. Her insecurities are in her own head, and would require Ryuji to think about things from someone else's perspective. She's older than him, smarter than him, can probably take him in a real world fight, and holds a position of power. This should all piss Ryuji off, but he is terrified of her, and deferential. The only time he dares to step to Makoto is when Ann is laying into her as well, and Joker is looking on at Makoto disapprovingly because the group thinks she knew about Kamoshida. The only time he can muster up the courage to speak ill to Makoto in a serious way is when it's 3 on 1, and he has the semblance of the moral high ground. And even then, his intent isn't to debate, it's to hurt. He doesn't talk to Makoto on a regular basis; they aren't friends, or even acquaintances. He doesn't give this same lecture to any teacher... it's this one, isolated incident. One that Ann apologizes for later, saying everything said was out of frustration. In part, this diatribe is a key contributor to Makoto putting herself in harm's way later, to show that SHE isn't useless. In browbeating someone about her contribution to a suicide attempt, Ryuji pushes the person he's brow beating into a arguably similar situation. Makoto's inaction regarding Shiho's situation is roughly equivalent to what could have happened to Makoto after Ryuji decided to make himself feel better about a student who he didn't really know... a friend of a friend. gently caress Ryuji. Ryuji is not overly kind to Yusuke, although Yusuke's introduction merits a good shunning. The thing about Yusuke, is that while he doesn't really do it for me as a character; he's a pretty good teammate after that ugly initial introduction. Calm headed, analytical, cautious and good in a fight. He serves a purpose when the team discusses a dilemma. But you know, he's also eccentric, so Ryuji has to point it out, every time. If there's a major conflict between Ryuji and Yusuke, I must have glossed over it. It's not really a big issue. Ryuji isn't great to Futaba, either. Yes, Futaba's shadow is trying to kill them. You know what probably isn't good's for Futaba's literally damaged psyche? Having you scream at her. No other character does this, it's all Ryuji; because he's incapable of empathy. Ryuji also needs to point out whenever she's acting strangely, by his standards. Ryuji doesn't have much interaction with Haru, because the story team forgot to write a compelling reason for Haru to be in the game, and he's WAYYYY too busy trying to drive Morgana away at that time. He's also instantly jealous of Akechi, long before he has a real reason to be. Because of course he is. One of the more prickish things he does though, is to Joker. He know that Joker is one formal complaint away from juvie, or prison. But he is constantly picking fights, revealing the team's secrets, and being an asshat, to notice that his "best friend" mostly just wants to help people. You CAN play Joker as choosing the "All adults are bad! HURR!" answers, but I chose the "Maybe we should keep our loving heads down, and help people, like we agreed on" answers. Then again, I also romanced the doctor. I'm weird. To reiterate, I cannot stand this character. He's actually had me speculating on how good this story could be, if the Thieves recognized the Fredo in their midst, and at least had to agonize over what to do about him. Maybe go to Mementos, and deal with him and his ego? See the aftershocks of what they've been doing to people, as a new, docile Ryuji is born? I also think they missed good what if? paths with ideas like Joker turns on the group when they become fame obsessed, and takes the like minded members with him. Or Ryuji is the traitor. Ryuji as the traitor makes sense only after he awakens to his power, but it absolutely fits in with his desire to be famous and matter. I think Akechi as a recruiter for Team Shido would have been interesting. He has potential avenues for each character to corrupt them at their most desperate, but instead, Akechi is a moustache twirler. Ok, that's enough  I feel better about this video game now.
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Jul 20, 2019 03:41
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Macaluso posted:One thing I wish Royal was changing was having Makoto just say "Sae" instead of "Sis". I hate it with my life I like it because it feels like Makoto teaching for the relationship they used to have. Sydin posted:Sah-KAH-mah-toe-kun This one is extra funny/sad because the wrong way is how they were told to pronounce it. Also for the guy above me I didn’t get that reading of Ryuji at all, he only really dunks on Morgana, everyone comments on Yusuke being strange, and his deal with Ann is they’re really old friends aware of eachother and able to joke like that. Also, the thing is Kamoshida was looking for any reason to ruin the track team he could find, and if you pay attention it’s revealed that he baited Ryuji by talking about his dad. Ryuji attacking in response is wrong, but Kamoshida was trying to get that response and knew what he was doing was blatantly insulting and cruel. He also broke Ryuji’s leg which was unnecessary no matter what the situation, and continued to antagonise and bully Ryuji because part of Kamoshida’s entire deal is wanting to feel successful and strong by tearing other people down. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 03:50
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I too don't get the teenage rebel in a game about teenage rebellion
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Jul 20, 2019 03:54
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Fojar38 posted:I too don't get the teenage rebel in a game about teenage rebellion
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Jul 20, 2019 04:02
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ryuji is the best character in persona 5 by a country mile however he isn't actually old friends with ann, they were just passing acquaintances before the kamoshida incident forced them to interact more
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Jul 20, 2019 04:05
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NutShellBill posted:I just needed to post this, since I'm replaying P5... gently caress off, Morgana
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Jul 20, 2019 04:14
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I didn't really like Ryuji either and I liked Morgana so  . He mostly just annoyed me because of how bad he was at keeping the whole thing secret and trying to keep the way cooler Ann out initiallyHe has a pretty good confidant story though. And also some of the best voice acting outside of "FOR REAL?!" Also: https://twitter.com/mangorijima/status/1150249960723664896?s=21
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Jul 20, 2019 04:22
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I think Ryuji has a totally different personality in the first Palace than in the rest of the game. I ended my first playthrough not liking Ryuji really at all, but then on a replay I though "man, this Ryuji is totally different and better than how he behaves after you beat Kamoshida." He's also got the exact same issue as Yosuke which has been being discussed in the MegaTen thread that his writing in the main story and in the social link is totally different. But the biggest thing that sticks out to me is that, after playing PersonaQ2 and seeing the P5R trailers, the English voice actor doesn't do Ryuji justice in how absolutely loving stupid he sounds in Japanese. Like, people make fun of the "FOR REAL?" line all the time, but that's straight mild compared to the confused wails of "EHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH???" and screaming that he does. Like, his Japanese voice actor reaaaaaally lays it on thick and makes him sound like an absolute moron. I envision the Japanese voice director talking to the VA and saying something like "Okay, here's your motivation for this scene. For one, you're dumb as hell. Just dumb as a box of rocks. You're also twelve years old. You're excited about everything, you don't understand why. GO." This might sound like an insult to the Japanese voice actor, but I honestly think it's more in-line with Ryuji's behavior than the English version.
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Jul 20, 2019 04:31
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I literally never understood how much of a gently caress up it is that a japanese man told americans how to wrongly say their own native tongue's name.
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Jul 20, 2019 04:31
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Oxxidation posted:ryuji is the best character in persona 5 by a country mile I thought they were friends in Middle School who drifted apart as they became older but fair point. He borrowed 500 yen from her and they still remember it, they also seem closest amongst the phantom thieves imo. Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 04:49 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 04:45
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Counterpoint: Ryuji is a good bro who reminds you to exercise and insists on training with you. He’s a good teacher who knows how to hold a student accountable without making th feel bad and encourages them to do better.
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Jul 20, 2019 09:52
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Gulping Again posted:Because Carmen wore a cat mask and the Third Level Personas are all just modernized, punched-up versions of the Initial Personas. But why does she have bunny ears? Given that she is cat themed.
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Jul 20, 2019 10:59
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NutShellBill posted:
While I agree with some of this (because dear YHWH, Ryuji is a huge security risk for the Phantom Thieves), I don't agree that he needed to keep his head down when it came to Kamoshida. The guy was abusing his authority and power to gently caress up his students. It didn't matter what Ryuji did since Kamoshida had his eye on him. I've said this before, but Modern Persona leaning very hard on anime archetypes for its characters and humor really drags down the characters. Ryuji gets hit the most by this since he's the designated "idiot hothead best friend". NutShellBill posted:To reiterate, I cannot stand this character. He's actually had me speculating on how good this story could be, if the Thieves recognized the Fredo in their midst, and at least had to agonize over what to do about him. Maybe go to Mementos, and deal with him and his ego? See the aftershocks of what they've been doing to people, as a new, docile Ryuji is born? Isn't this kind of what the Thieves did to Futaba? Granted, part of the change was Futaba accepting her own Shadow but the Thieves still messed around in her head. It's just a shame P5 never really bothered exploring the moral ramifications of that. "Sure we used our powers to change someone who asked for it, but have we crossed another line here?" HIJK posted:Counterpoint: Ryuji is a good bro who reminds you to exercise and insists on training with you. He’s a good teacher who knows how to hold a student accountable without making th feel bad and encourages them to do better. Ryuji threw the girls under the bus to that cognitive politician who only wanted to talk to girls in bikinis, even including Futaba because "maybe he'd be into that". Ryuji can gently caress off forever.
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Jul 20, 2019 17:12
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amigolupus posted:Isn't this kind of what the Thieves did to Futaba? Granted, part of the change was Futaba accepting her own Shadow but the Thieves still messed around in her head. It's just a shame P5 never really bothered exploring the moral ramifications of that. "Sure we used our powers to change someone who asked for it, but have we crossed another line here?" Well, they do talk about it a little, but they kind of quickly come to the conclusion that however morally dubious what they're doing is, it's a net positive in the long run and would be the most beneficial to the most people, since everyone whose heart they steal is absolutely unquestionably a horrible piece of poo poo and a large number of people are suffering explicitly because of them. They coooooould have discussed it more? But I think they'd just end up at the same conclusion so I'm cool with not hearing the same essential conversation over and over, like every time after the heist where everyone texts back and forth "hey do you think for some reason this time it won't work?????"
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Jul 20, 2019 17:23
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Ryuji is what happens when you try and glue Yosuke and Kanji together.
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Jul 20, 2019 18:10
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HIJK posted:Counterpoint: Ryuji is a good bro who reminds you to exercise and insists on training with you. He’s a good teacher who knows how to hold a student accountable without making th feel bad and encourages them to do better. My man!
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Jul 20, 2019 18:46
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Ryuji felt like the most realistic character to me, for what it's worth, and he's far and away the best character in 5. Him and Ann were the only characters that made me think "oh yeah these guys are teens". Best persona design as well.
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Jul 20, 2019 19:17
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Dr. Fishopolis posted:Ryuji is what happens when you try and glue Yosuke and Kanji together. Which sucks because Kanji and Yosuke are both good in their own way (I’ll fight for both of them, Yosuke is a good boy) so they really shouldn’t mash the two together. Ryuji being a jock with a klutzy social demeanour is enough, it’s a shame the production didn’t trust that enough. amigolupus posted:Ryuji threw the girls under the bus to that cognitive politician who only wanted to talk to girls in bikinis, even including Futaba because "maybe he'd be into that". Ryuji can gently caress off forever. Well I like Ryuji so I’m not gonna throw his character away over the pattern of sexweird traits that permeate the series, especially when we know that production staff members are more at fault than the actual characters.
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Jul 20, 2019 19:55
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Zelder posted:Him and Ann were the only characters that made me think "oh yeah these guys are teens". This. A lot of criticism of Ryuji and others in this game is both justified but also realistic, because their flaws are the same exact flaws that are typical of teenagers. The sorts of flaws that, when you're older, you look back on and go  Everyone IRL has these. It's part of being a teen and coming to grips with them in some way is the core of a coming of age story (which is what Persona is)
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Jul 20, 2019 20:19
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Are people really thinking that Ryuji laying down for Kamoshida would accomplish anything? He wanted to destroy the track team no matter what. He’d been tormenting them with verbal abuse, beatings, and absurd workouts for a while. He deliberately attacked Ryuji’s history as an abuse victim to get a rise out of him and broke the leg of a kid half his size when he had the chance. Ryuji lashed out, but Kamoshida went out of his way to single him out as a target. If he did nothing, all that would change is Kamoshida would pick a new target or tactic to see the team disbanded. I know I was pissed that there was no response to this effect when his rear end in a top hat former teammates blamed everything on him as if the sadistic egomaniac hellbent on their downfall would just go away if they played good boys.Zelder posted:Ryuji felt like the most realistic character to me, for what it's worth, and he's far and away the best character in 5. Him and Ann were the only characters that made me think "oh yeah these guys are teens". I kind if have to agree. Ryuji and Ann are usually portrayed as “the dumb ones” when serious plans come up, but they do act like teenagers given powers far beyond their understanding and only vague goals probably would. It’s just that they come off as intellectually and emotionally lacking when placed alongside the rest of the group who are all in some way brilliant and/or inexplicably mature. If they were on, say, the Investigation Team, they’d come off better since the group’s aggregate intellect isn’t quite as overwhelming and the stakes aren’t half as high.
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Jul 20, 2019 20:25
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I don't think any of the team is "inexplicably" mature considering their backgrounds. Makoto and Haru are probably who you were talking about but their maturity is a direct consequence of their difficult/borderline abusive homelives that basically forced them to grow up faster than usual.
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Jul 20, 2019 20:37
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Ann is sort of a non-participant in the important storyline discussions regarding the actions of the Phantom Thieves, even compared to Futaba. I think their point was that Ryuji, on the other hand, is an active detriment to all discussions he contributes so and basically does nothing but cause problems for the team, which is really hard to get past when it's so consistent and as a result of the same juvenile mindset every time. The game never really gives him a chance to come around (outside of his social link) and become more reliable, and instead once he realizes it's a lot of his fault for how things have turned out just before the Casino, he just stops talking entirely during important cutscenes. Like is a problem with most characters, the development of the characters in and out of their social links are totally different, but Ryuji is the most drastically different between the two - in his social link he becomes much more responsible and likeable, but the game he only causes more and more problems as the game goes on
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Jul 21, 2019 00:51
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It is kind of amazing how two of the four founding Phantom Thieves, the ones front and center on all the marketing for the series, become all but irrelevant to the group’s decisions by mid-game. Even Yusuke and Haru have more input than they do for planning.
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Jul 21, 2019 02:37
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Remember when everyone though Yusuke was the antagonist?
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Jul 21, 2019 04:47
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Our favorite tiny nerd got her trailer today. https://youtu.be/asZwmiMgBBc Shows Star Wars/pyramid-inspired third Persona and how her All Out Attack works. Now with subtitles: https://youtu.be/iqSrrTfJ6sQ Geostomp fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jul 23, 2019 |
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Jul 23, 2019 12:02
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Someone gets Screentime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HMUtO-u9Zo And, those scenes in the new year cannot be real, right? I am kind intrigued now.
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Jul 26, 2019 10:46
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amigolupus posted:
There was two kinds of heart changes. While futaba said that they took their distorted heart. She really didnt had her distorted wrath stolen but directed the people who ordered her death. Having her actual treasure stolen meant that she would expose herself as Medjed to the public va the Phantom Thieves and give up hacking altogether aince losing your treasure means submitting to mementos
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Jul 26, 2019 13:50
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I hope Persona 6 has a 5 year timeskip.
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Jul 26, 2019 13:53
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AstroWhale posted:Someone gets Screentime: My wild prediction is that Akechi no longer kills anyone so he can be in the party again
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Jul 26, 2019 14:16
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The new final boss antagonist will be a wish granter who works like Marie/Izanami in P4 and will be all about living in a nice illusion where you have everything you want.
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Jul 26, 2019 14:22
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Terper posted:The new final boss antagonist will be a wish granter who works like Marie/Izanami in P4 and will be all about living in a nice illusion where you have everything you want. Yeah I considered that this could be a part of the dream part where Morgana is human but then I though, well, would Haru even want her dad alive again? But he could also probably just be alive but also not evil now if she could have anything. Also Haru is so underdeveloped that I don't even know of anything else she would wish for
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Jul 26, 2019 14:26
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Haru gets over her dad being killed pretty quickly but that feels more like a problem with her being the last (permanent) character you get in the story so there's not a whole lot of time to get deep into that. I feel like if she could have her dad alive again she would. Just not as the evil CEO he was and instead the more humble kinder dad she remembers from when she was a kid
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Jul 26, 2019 14:29
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Macaluso posted:Haru gets over her dad being killed pretty quickly but that feels more like a problem with her being the last (permanent) character you get in the story so there's not a whole lot of time to get deep into that. I feel like if she could have her dad alive again she would. Just not as the evil CEO he was and instead the more humble kinder dad she remembers from when she was a kid Haru is, by a wide margin, the least upset person in the team about her dad's death, which is kind of funny but I guess necessary because that's the moment the plot goes off the rails and you can't have Haru peace out right as things are getting good. If anything, that would have been a much more interesting internal strife plotline than the uh...Morgana and Ryuji situation
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Jul 26, 2019 14:34
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RazzleDazzleHour posted:Haru is, by a wide margin, the least upset person in the team about her dad's death, which is kind of funny but I guess necessary because that's the moment the plot goes off the rails and you can't have Haru peace out right as things are getting good. If anything, that would have been a much more interesting internal strife plotline than the uh...Morgana and Ryuji situation I figured she had grown apart from her dad. I mean, he was apparently a good guy when she was a kid. But at this point in time, he was marrying her off to an abusive rear end in a top hat for business purposes, and, unknown to her, working with Shido and Akechi to take out his rivals and help Shido gain power. And that's aside from being an awful boss that treated his employees like robots (and presumably just wasn't around much for her anymore). The good guy she knew was gone by the time he got killed. The rest of the team was probably panicking somewhere between, "Wait, did we somehow just kill a guy?" and "Is Haru going to hate us and turn us in?"
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Jul 26, 2019 14:44
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TVs Ian posted:I figured she had grown apart from her dad. I mean, he was apparently a good guy when she was a kid. But at this point in time, he was marrying her off to an abusive rear end in a top hat for business purposes, and, unknown to her, working with Shido and Akechi to take out his rivals and help Shido gain power. And that's aside from being an awful boss that treated his employees like robots (and presumably just wasn't around much for her anymore). The good guy she knew was gone by the time he got killed. Haru also shows some pretty vicious levels of sadism and such in Mementos, I'd totally buy her reaction to her father dying being muted/repressed for the purpose of pushing onwards for vengeance and justice etc.
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Jul 26, 2019 16:00
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Lord_Magmar posted:Haru also shows some pretty vicious levels of sadism and such in Mementos Haru is probably one of my top reasons for being excited for P5R because all she really needed was like, 1-2 palaces worth of plot being with the team and getting some development to easily be the best character in the party. I'm really hoping they play up this as well as the other hints about how here quiet and gentle outward persona (forgive the pun) is her putting on a ruse.
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Jul 26, 2019 16:33
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| # ? May 19, 2024 05:16 |
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Sydin posted:Haru is probably one of my top reasons for being excited for P5R because all she really needed was like, 1-2 palaces worth of plot being with the team and getting some development to easily be the best character in the party. I'm really hoping they play up this as well as the other hints about how here quiet and gentle outward persona (forgive the pun) is her putting on a ruse. I doubt it's a ruse. It's just that, like Makoto, she has some pent up frustrations that manifest in a hidden side that is very different to her outward appearance. Where as Makoto gets more aggressive and commanding, Haru likes having power to toy with opponents a bit more than is healthy. Either way, I'm happy to see that she'll at least get to show up before September. Now they just need to lower the stat threshold for her and the other three that all need stats to be at or near maximum to interact with.
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Jul 26, 2019 20:02
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