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Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe Biden, the Inappropriate Toucher |
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18 | 1.46% |
| Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer |
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665 | 54.11% |
| Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker |
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319 | 25.96% |
| Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord |
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26 | 2.12% |
| Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Julian Castro, the Twin |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer |
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5 | 0.41% |
| Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath |
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17 | 1.38% |
| Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino |
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3 | 0.24% |
| Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist |
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8 | 0.65% |
| Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen |
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86 | 7.00% |
| Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater |
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23 | 1.87% |
| Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool |
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32 | 2.60% |
| Eric Swalwell, the Insurance Wife Guy |
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2 | 0.16% |
| Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast |
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1 | 0.08% |
| Bill de Blasio, the NYPD Most Hated |
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4 | 0.33% |
| Tim Ryan, the Dope Face |
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3 | 0.24% |
| John Hickenlooper, the Also Ran |
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7 | 0.57% |
| Total: | 1229 votes | ||
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Craptacular! posted:Question to the people who talk labor: isn’t working these sorts of poo poo Jobs a ladder for people with a terrible employment history? No, you get stuck in them forever because you can't afford to do anything that would let you get a better job In 2019 someone earnest expressed the idea that garbage jobs are entry level, my god
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Jul 20, 2019 18:17
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shrike82 posted:The atmosphere here feels like 2016 "show me the map". Does Bernie not getting the nomination put a bullet in electoralism?
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Jul 20, 2019 18:22
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Craptacular! posted:Question to the people who talk labor: isn’t working these sorts of poo poo Jobs a ladder for people with a terrible employment history? If you have huge, gaping holes in your history I can see opting to do some kind of unpaid campaign job simply to show the next employer you did something. you can see this in action by the way that nobody who sat down to learn to code has bothered unionizing
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Jul 20, 2019 18:23
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shrike82 posted:The atmosphere here feels like 2016 "show me the map". Does Bernie not getting the nomination put a bullet in electoralism? Only Bernie is trying to build a movement. And a movement will be required to achieve the complete transformation of society and economy required to address climate change. So yeah. (Editor’s Note: arguing that Bernie will fail is agreeing that electoralism has failed.)
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Jul 20, 2019 18:27
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mormonpartyboat posted:you can see this in action by the way that nobody who sat down to learn to code has bothered unionizing The fact that half the people in tech are libertarian shitlords is, I'm sure, completely unrelated to this.
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Jul 20, 2019 18:41
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Trabisnikof posted:(Editor’s Note: arguing that Bernie will fail is agreeing that electoralism has failed.)
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Jul 20, 2019 18:44
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:its also possible that bernie has some flaws as a candidate which are putting a cap on his progress which people arguing in honest good faith generally admit to I don't think that any persuasive argument can really be made that this is the case. Almost all the criticism I've seen of him is referring to the things that are likely why he has more popularity than all the other progressive-leaning candidates among people who aren't well-off and white. The main things hurting him are things he has no control over, like his appearance and age. edit: This isn't to say that he doesn't don't/said actual things that are bad, but those things aren't what's hurting his popularity. Craptacular! posted:This has always kind of been my quiet concern with the labor/union politics, it seems designed to benefit those who already are in the system by denying opportunity to people who fell through the cracks in some way. (Edit: I guess in Bernie’s ideal world a jobs guarantee is supposed to address this, but man I feel there’s better ways to address poverty.) Pretty much "by definition" it's impossible for any "opportunity"-based approach to ever be any sort of real solution. All that can ever do is shuffle around existing jobs. While not exactly a zero-sum game, there will always be a hard limit to the number of decent-paying jobs that arise in a free-ish market. There can only be so many people working well-paying managerial-professional jobs, since all the poorly paying service/retail/etc jobs still need to be worked. So pretty much all policies that are meant to give people the opportunity to become one of the "haves" instead of the "have-nots" aren't [i]real[/i[ solutions. This is why the only real solution, if you actually want to improve circumstances for people, is to directly distribute money/resources to them, either through social welfare programs or things like jobs provided by the government that pay well. Regarding your other post, supporting Warren with those views at least makes sense, because they're explicitly different than many of the people in this thread (who generally think Sanders' policies like MfA are the minimum that needs to be done and would strongly disagree with the idea that it makes sense for the US to take some sort of aggressive/hostile stance against China/Russia, or any other country for that matter). yronic heroism posted:Lol the posts itt are 5:1 Bernie over Warren dude. I said forum, not thread. Most D&D posters do not post in the Dem Primary thread. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 18:46
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Ytlaya posted:This is why the only real solution, if you actually want to improve circumstances for people, is to directly distribute money/resources to them, either through social welfare programs or things like jobs provided by the government that pay well.
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Jul 20, 2019 18:51
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:I mean within a capitalist framework, sure that's a band-aid. It's not sustainable, though. Obviously in the longer term it would be ideal for things like property ownership (and even money) to not exist, but even then I'm pretty sure you'd want to directly provide people things like food and shelter. That's why I said "money/resources" instead of just money.
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Jul 20, 2019 18:55
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shrike82 posted:I'm curious what the politics for the forum will turn to if/when Bernie isn't the Dem candidate in 2020. Dead, as I'm pretty sure the most vocal are tox'd to Bernie.
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Jul 20, 2019 19:08
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Ytlaya posted:The main things hurting him are things he has no control over, like his appearance and age. edit: This isn't to say that he doesn't don't/said actual things that are bad, but those things aren't what's hurting his popularity.
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Jul 20, 2019 19:10
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shrike82 posted:I'm curious what the politics for the forum will turn to if/when Bernie isn't the Dem candidate in 2020. Many will grudgingly coalesce around Warren for the nomination, some will vote 3rd party in Nov. 2020, and, as you've seen, some will abandon electoralism altogether. Those of us who lose the toxx will probably come back very quickly; we'll just have different outlooks on where the country goes after all this is over.
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Jul 20, 2019 19:14
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Craptacular! posted:Question to the people who talk labor: isn’t working these sorts of poo poo Jobs a ladder for people with a terrible employment history? If you have huge, gaping holes in your history I can see opting to do some kind of unpaid campaign job simply to show the next employer you did something. In first world countries the generosity of the 'social wage', i.e. the range of protections, supports and services guaranteed by the government to working people, has tended to rise and fall with the strength of organized labour and its allied institutions. From a longer term view - i.e. decade to decade - countries with relatively strong labour movements and the attendant social democratic politics those movements tend to generate spend more money on welfare and education and generally have much stronger protections for worker rights. Majorian posted:Many will grudgingly coalesce around Warren for the nomination, some will vote 3rd party in Nov. 2020, and, as you've seen, some will abandon electoralism altogether. Those of us who lose the toxx will probably come back very quickly; we'll just have different outlooks on where the country goes after all this is over. Warren aint going to be the nominee.
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Jul 20, 2019 19:25
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My response if Biden or Harris wins the nomination would be very similar to election night 2016 - deep depression and alchohol
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Jul 20, 2019 19:34
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:No, you get stuck in them forever because you can't afford to do anything that would let you get a better job Entry level jobs are one of the most dangerous myths in American culture
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Jul 20, 2019 19:47
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I like the idea that if Bernie fails it's time to abandon the idea of democracy altogether and become the pro-authoritarian left, as if that is at all a good idea
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Jul 20, 2019 20:01
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mandatory lesbian posted:Entry level jobs are one of the most dangerous myths in American culture Service jobs aren't even entry level in the way we think of entry level jobs, it's fuckin wild. They literally exist to create a permanent underclass who can never dream of rising above their station
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Jul 20, 2019 20:04
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Grapplejack posted:I like the idea that if Bernie fails it's time to abandon the idea of democracy altogether and become the pro-authoritarian left, as if that is at all a good idea You can get rid of the "if".
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Jul 20, 2019 20:04
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Grapplejack posted:I like the idea that if Bernie fails it's time to abandon the idea of democracy altogether and become the pro-authoritarian left, as if that is at all a good idea I mean what else is left? The system will have failed to provide a better world for the people who need it, at what point are we allowed to decide to abandon that system?
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Jul 20, 2019 20:04
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Grapplejack posted:if Bernie fails it's time to abandon the idea of democracy altogether and become the pro-authoritarian left, that is a good idea Okay well I strongly disagree
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Jul 20, 2019 20:07
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Ytlaya posted:I think Warren supporters are overrepresented on this forum and in political internet spaces in general, since her support among younger people disproportionately comes from more well-off whites. yronic heroism posted:Lol the posts itt are 5:1 Bernie over Warren dude. Yes, exactly.
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Jul 20, 2019 20:13
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:I mean what else is left? The system will have failed to provide a better world for the people who need it, at what point are we allowed to decide to abandon that system? You can't think it's a good idea to switch to a system that promotes even less protection for the proletariat and encourages elite rule!
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Jul 20, 2019 20:14
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Maybe we'll get lucky when Biden wins and then in four years when derranged Trump era official runs for president we'll get some leftist id. But with our luck it will be the Disney heiress.
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Jul 20, 2019 20:14
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Grapplejack posted:You can't think it's a good idea to switch to a system that promotes even less protection for the proletariat and encourages elite rule! That's what we have right now
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Jul 20, 2019 20:18
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BENGHAZI 2 posted:No, you get stuck in them forever because you can't afford to do anything that would let you get a better job I feel like I’m less employable than this summer’s crop of high school kids, so it’s basically underpaying jobs or working in the kind of reintegration jobs ex-convicts working back into society do. I’ve tried to mentally tell myself I’m not too proud for either. Ytlaya posted:Pretty much "by definition" it's impossible for any "opportunity"-based approach to ever be any sort of real solution. All that can ever do is shuffle around existing jobs. While not exactly a zero-sum game, there will always be a hard limit to the number of decent-paying jobs that arise in a free-ish market. There can only be so many people working well-paying managerial-professional jobs, since all the poorly paying service/retail/etc jobs still need to be worked. So pretty much all policies that are meant to give people the opportunity to become one of the "haves" instead of the "have-nots" aren't [i]real[/i[ solutions. I feel like there can be less and less people experiencing the misery of dead end go nowhere jobs simply due to the capitalists looking to erase margins by replacing them all with machines, and so that’s why I get nervous with any progressive candidate who drones on about making sure people’s jobs don’t get automated away. These are often the same candidates promoting the jobs guarantee, and I guess we need to make sure humans are doing jobs that don’t really need them to be there to be done in order to keep that sustainable, but to me the jobs guarantee thing is like when single payer advocate hears “Obamacare but with a public plan”. I feel we should be reducing the amount of labor hours needed from people as we can, taxing the profits of the wealthy robo-labor barons, and use some combination of welfare and UBI to ensure that people who do work have jobs they want to do and not doing drudgery for basic survival. (Edited for cleanliness because I phone-posted all over) Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 20:20
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shrike82 posted:I'm curious what the politics for the forum will turn to if/when Bernie isn't the Dem candidate in 2020. Goon project: building a leftist commune in the Alaskan wilderness
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Jul 20, 2019 20:54
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https://twitter.com/lib_crusher/status/1152655489542606849
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Jul 20, 2019 20:55
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SKULL.GIF posted:Yes, exactly. (Checks dictionary definition of disproportionate) I have bad news for you about the recent polls.
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Jul 20, 2019 21:02
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as a previous bernie donator and a current bernie donator, i support bernie and will be voting for him but if he drops out beforehand i can see why people would shift over to supporting warren as a result or maybe they should just merge their campaigns like voltron and go for a bernie/warren pres/vp ticket i mean, who else are my fellow bernie supporters going to vote for, the cop? biden? Iamgoofball fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 21:08
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Iamgoofball posted:as a previous bernie donator and a current bernie donator, i support bernie and will be voting for him but if he drops out beforehand i can see why people would shift over to supporting warren as a result I live in a blue state, so I get to vote for my dog at the top of the ticket.
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Jul 20, 2019 21:14
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:One reason I think Trump is going to win again is that the economic effects of his dumbshit policies haven’t come through yet, we’re still in the Obama economy so people’s checkbooks are either status quo ante or doing slightly better. Everything else is just stuff that pisses off people who are left of center, and that’s the major reason a lot of people voted for Trump in the first place, so mission accomplished! This is operating on the presumption that we’re going to have a candidate who isn’t making a competent economic argument, so basically anyone not named Bernie or Warren. I think this is misunderstanding what happened in 2016. Donny didn't win because he activated a previously unknown need from Manslo's hierarchy to own the libs. He won because 1)people didn't like Hillary, 2) people thought Donny was going to lose anyway, and 3) people misjudged the effect of a big dumb idiot reality TV celebrity being in charge. Donny's victory has rendered reasons 2 and 3 moot, and as long as someone as hated by the public at large as Hillary isn't nominated, 1 is off the table as well. Falling rear end backwards through the gaps in our electoral machinery isn't going to work twice in a row for him. Either he actually wins the popular vote after sufficient blood sacrifices to the dark ones, or he straight up loses. His massive approval inversion isn't because a lot of people kind of aren't on board, almost all of his over 50% disapproval is made up of hard core hate. Iamgoofball posted:as a previous bernie donator and a current bernie donator, i support bernie and will be voting for him but if he drops out beforehand i can see why people would shift over to supporting warren as a result Once again I renew my request that people stop putting forward stupid VP nominations of people who are far, far more useful in their current position than that the position of waiting around for something to happen to President Bernie.
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Jul 20, 2019 21:19
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Iamgoofball posted:as a previous bernie donator and a current bernie donator, i support bernie and will be voting for him but if he drops out beforehand i can see why people would shift over to supporting warren as a result Not that this message will gain much headway with this terminally online audience, but try to make peace with the fact that voting and donating are among the least significant or consequential political acts you can take, and find ways to get involved in organizing around issues like wages, rent, discrimination, police violence, poverty, etc. Elections can be a useful way of mobilizing support and trying to push new ideas into public consciousness but realistically speaking the US government will likely collapse before a left wing candidate ever gains power.
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Jul 20, 2019 21:20
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Helsing posted:Not that this message will gain much headway with this terminally online audience, but try to make peace with the fact that voting and donating are among the least significant or consequential political acts you can take, and find ways to get involved in organizing around issues like wages, rent, discrimination, police violence, poverty, etc. Elections can be a useful way of mobilizing support and trying to push new ideas into public consciousness but realistically speaking the US government will likely collapse before a left wing candidate ever gains power. But what if I wear my Bernie T-Shirts to the store?
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Jul 20, 2019 21:23
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HootTheOwl posted:I live in a blue state, so I get to vote for my dog at the top of the ticket. i can respect that, good doggo is a good doggo and therefore a perfect choice at all times i'd vote for my pet over most the current dem nominees myself Helsing posted:Not that this message will gain much headway with this terminally online audience, but try to make peace with the fact that voting and donating are among the least significant or consequential political acts you can take, and find ways to get involved in organizing around issues like wages, rent, discrimination, police violence, poverty, etc. Elections can be a useful way of mobilizing support and trying to push new ideas into public consciousness but realistically speaking the US government will likely collapse before a left wing candidate ever gains power. as long as bernie has funds, he's able to get his ideas into the thoughts of Americans, which furthers leftist ideals all the same combine this with direct action and the goods shall be got
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Jul 20, 2019 21:25
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Gyges posted:I think this is misunderstanding what happened in 2016. Donny didn't win because he activated a previously unknown need from Manslo's hierarchy to own the libs. He won because 1)people didn't like Hillary, 2) people thought Donny was going to lose anyway, and 3) people misjudged the effect of a big dumb idiot reality TV celebrity being in charge. Donny's victory has rendered reasons 2 and 3 moot, and as long as someone as hated by the public at large as Hillary isn't nominated, 1 is off the table as well. This post is heavily dependent on a lot of people voting blue no matter who
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Jul 20, 2019 21:35
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Craptacular! posted:I’m not some well off guy looking down on the unpaid interns, I’m basically garbage from a hiring perspective and bordering closer to unemployable. I genuine thought what I have to do was get a job that was garbage enough to accept a huge employment gap, prove that I show up and am not a psychopath, and then find another one with the recent experience on my resume. Maybe we should have a federal jobs guarantee to ensure you can always get work to provide for your family (and fill up a resume) rather than demand you work for free until you can 'lean in'
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Jul 20, 2019 21:44
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Grapplejack posted:I like the idea that if Bernie fails it's time to abandon the idea of democracy altogether and become the pro-authoritarian left, as if that is at all a good idea It's funny because you talk as if the US political system is a democracy in any meaningful way.
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Jul 20, 2019 21:50
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joepinetree posted:And there it is, what? What is your argument, exactly? The point I was getting at is, just to sum it up, some of the posters in this thread are pretty hypocritical. If poo poo like this leaked from a unionized corporation, or other campaign, where folks were being made to work 60 hours a week, then it’d be labeled as fascism. Instead, it’s just a bunch of bitching about how the leaks happened, and how it hurts their candidate of choice, then a lot of mental gymnastics reasoning how this shouldn’t matter, because bullshit whataboutisms. shrike82 posted:I'm curious what the politics for the forum will turn to if/when Bernie isn't the Dem candidate in 2020. It’ll be non-stop bitching about how Bernie isn’t the nominee, and how folks are gonna write in Mike Gravel as a protest vote, not vote at all, or they’ll just vote Trump because all the other candidates are succdems, so they’re basically the same. This thread has a thoroughly predictable cycle, and when it’s not a pure echo chamber, the most antagonistic posters make a push for it to be one.
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Jul 20, 2019 21:58
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generic one posted:The point I was getting at is, just to sum it up, some of the posters in this thread are pretty hypocritical. If poo poo like this leaked from a unionized corporation, or other campaign, where folks were being made to work 60 hours a week, then it’d be labeled as fascism. Instead, it’s just a bunch of bitching about how the leaks happened, and how it hurts their candidate of choice, then a lot of mental gymnastics reasoning how this shouldn’t matter, because bullshit whataboutisms. That's not what anyone is saying; you are a liar
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Jul 20, 2019 22:00
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Isn't everyone in agreement here that they're in the right to ask for more money? And also in the wrong to ask for it from the Washington Post instead of the candidate?
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Jul 20, 2019 22:11
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