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He's an accelerationist. Edit: gently caress what a terrible snipe. The idiot is posting in the thread.
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Jul 20, 2019 22:25
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MRC48B posted:He's an accelerationist. IIRC, the whole point of ST was that the US, needed to hand its destiny only to people willing to make some minimum level of self sacrifice in order to fend off the Soviet Bloc; by removing voting rights from people who didn't serve in some sort of Federal collective service and all of society needed to become a Prussian style "Army with a State" to avoid falling to the "Communist Hordes". I don't think Heinlein intended to suggest "We gotta make things worse in order to make things better", but "This is the MINIMUM we need to do to avoid being overrun."
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Jul 20, 2019 22:32
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Brute Squad posted:still want that mad max meets fear and loathing fuel convoy movie. I'm headed home to see family shortly and there's a good chance that I'll get to see the reaction in person when I tell my old smoking buddy that he's been promoted to Warboy by other veterans. He had a poo poo-ton of stories about how deeply hosed up that unit and everyone in it was on a variety of levels from "we had to turn the convoy around three times on one mission to get my squad leader's rifle out of various portashitters" to "this dude was banned from being my relief driver because he would take the tanker off the road to try and run over dogs," hoping to re-nail-down some of the details for thread delectation.
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Jul 20, 2019 22:36
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Raenir Salazar posted:IIRC, the whole point of ST was that the US, needed to hand its destiny only to people willing to make some minimum level of self sacrifice in order to fend off the Soviet Bloc; by removing voting rights from people who didn't serve in some sort of Federal collective service and all of society needed to become a Prussian style "Army with a State" to avoid falling to the "Communist Hordes". I didn't mean Heinlein. I meant Forums Poster Remulak, in Jest. You're absolutely right that most of the people who watched a ST remake wouldn't get the joke.
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Jul 20, 2019 22:44
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I think it's just as likely the people making a Starship Troopers remake wouldn't get the joke, and would end up making a straight-up pro-fascist statement.
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Jul 20, 2019 23:25
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LonsomeSon posted:I'm headed home to see family shortly and there's a good chance that I'll get to see the reaction in person when I tell my old smoking buddy that he's been promoted to Warboy by other veterans. If you get more warboy stories I will venmo you guys a couple rounds. Dick Burglar posted:I think it's just as likely the people making a Starship Troopers remake wouldn't get the joke, and would end up making a straight-up pro-fascist statement. This happened with the first one.
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Jul 20, 2019 23:33
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bird cooch posted:This happened with the first one. Huh? The first movie is definitely purposely lampooning the fascist leanings of the book.
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Jul 20, 2019 23:38
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yeah but you gotta not be an idiot to grasp that
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Jul 20, 2019 23:41
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:yeah but you gotta not be an idiot to grasp that That was the initial argument but he's implying that Paul Verhoeven didn't get the joke, which is stupid as hell because he's the only reason there's a joke to "get". Unless he thinks Heinlein was being satirical in the first place.
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Jul 20, 2019 23:43
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The whole "idiots won't get it" argument fails when you realize that a shitload of white supremacists loving love American History X. The fact that its final act is a giant "racism is bad" is completely ignored, and the final scene of the movie vindicates the white supremacists because the younger brother is murdered by a black kid, thus "proving" that racism is not in fact bad and is totally justified. It's not a matter of being an idiot, it's a matter of seeing what you want to see. I could paint a canvas entirely red, and someone who hated the color red (and wasn't colorblind) would tell me they loved my blue painting.
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Jul 20, 2019 23:52
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It's like gangbangers that idolize Scarface. Like did all of you not watch the end of the fuckin' movie?
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Jul 21, 2019 00:13
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Dillbag posted:It's like gangbangers that idolize Scarface. Like did all of you not watch the end of the fuckin' movie? Yeah but the ride is worth the price of the admission ese.
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Jul 21, 2019 01:03
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Dillbag posted:It's like gangbangers that idolize Scarface. Like did all of you not watch the end of the fuckin' movie? "Live fast, die young!"
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Jul 21, 2019 01:11
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Dillbag posted:It's like gangbangers that idolize Scarface. Like did all of you not watch the end of the fuckin' movie? Hey, I'm here for a good time, not a long time.
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Jul 21, 2019 01:15
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:yeah but you gotta not be an idiot to grasp that My college humanities department had a thing where they'd have rotating professors give a lecture at a local bar each week, and they'd give out the bar snacks for free. One of them spent his entire hourlong lecture talking about how starship troopers was a fascist utopia, and - because it did not wink at the camera - was not at all satirical. And yeah he hadn't been drinking beforehand.
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Jul 21, 2019 01:23
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Dillbag posted:It's like gangbangers that idolize Scarface. Like did all of you not watch the end of the fuckin' movie? I knew a guy who thought the model of friendship was that between Affleck and Renner's characters in "The Town". He was not good at social relationships.
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Jul 21, 2019 02:32
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Tunicate posted:My college humanities department had a thing where they'd have rotating professors give a lecture at a local bar each week, and they'd give out the bar snacks for free. Allegedly Verhoeven added the ‘Want to Know More’ bits in editing because it was too subtle otherwise.
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Jul 21, 2019 02:36
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MRC48B posted:I knew a guy who thought the model of friendship was that between Affleck and Renner's characters in "The Town". What in the gently caress
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Jul 21, 2019 02:40
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Scarface isn't a good movie.
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Jul 21, 2019 03:36
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Tunicate posted:My college humanities department had a thing where they'd have rotating professors give a lecture at a local bar each week, and they'd give out the bar snacks for free. Sometimes you get people who should really know better but because no one really challenges them anymore they just get set in their ways.
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Jul 21, 2019 03:53
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:yeah but you gotta not be an idiot to grasp that There is more than a few people knocking about this world, serving in the military, voting having children, and not realizing that starship troopers is satire not just campy.
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Jul 21, 2019 06:50
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bird cooch posted:There is more than a few people knocking about this world, serving in the military, voting having children, and not realizing that starship troopers is satire not just campy. I had an ex that was a Seabee who didn't see a hint of satire in Starship Troopers and thought it was the way the country/world should be run. Those people are out there.
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Jul 21, 2019 10:55
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Sammus posted:I had an ex that was a Seabee who didn't see a hint of satire in Starship Troopers and thought it was the way the country/world should be run. Those people are out there. Seabees are loving brain dead beyond the norm even for the military so this isn't surprising
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Jul 21, 2019 12:50
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Idiot story: I'm a Seabee
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Jul 21, 2019 12:50
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Sammus posted:I had an ex that was a Seabee who didn't see a hint of satire in Starship Troopers and thought it was the way the country/world should be run. Those people are out there. I’ll be honest I kinda thought it was an interesting system as long as federal service could also be picking up trash in the county park. I didn’t really give it much thought 20 years ago.
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Jul 21, 2019 17:20
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LingcodKilla posted:I’ll be honest I kinda thought it was an interesting system as long as federal service could also be picking up trash in the county park. I didn’t really give it much thought 20 years ago. Tbh that is what it's like in the book - there's a scene in the book where Rico and some other soldiers get into a bar fight with some merchant marine sailors because soldiers only have to serve two years due to the danger and merchant marine sailors have to serve five. The book is only about half masturbating to the military in that creepy post-WW2 sci fi way, the other half is about Those Evil Commies (represented through the thinly veiled allegory of the Bugs).
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Jul 21, 2019 20:32
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Dillbag posted:It's like gangbangers that idolize Scarface. Like did all of you not watch the end of the fuckin' movie? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otXY3Slz11s
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Jul 21, 2019 22:34
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Cythereal posted:Tbh that is what it's like in the book - there's a scene in the book where Rico and some other soldiers get into a bar fight with some merchant marine sailors because soldiers only have to serve two years due to the danger and merchant marine sailors have to serve five. Pretty sure the fight is over the Merchant Marine not getting citizenship because it doesn't count.
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Jul 21, 2019 22:36
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Pretty sure the fight is over the Merchant Marine not getting citizenship because it doesn't count. Which pretty definitively shoots down Heinlein defenders' assertion that the military isn't the only type of Federal Service that gets you the franchise.
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Jul 21, 2019 22:39
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Which pretty definitively shoots down Heinlein defenders' assertion that the military isn't the only type of Federal Service that gets you the franchise. They're welcome to show where the book says it's anything other than you enlist, put up your preferences, and hope you've got the right skills for non-lovely service.
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Jul 21, 2019 22:59
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http://dd-b.net/dd-b/misc/strooper-federal-service.html The above article I found while searching for a quote explains that Heinlein, outside of and many years after the work, claimed that 95% of service was non-military, but makes a good case that the book was not written in this way. I recall Heinlein's opinions on governments seeming to swing all over the place during his 50 years of writing.
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Jul 22, 2019 02:06
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Heinlein expounds later that Federal Service isn't all military, and that no one can be denied their right to federal service. The MM fight wasn't about Franchise (IIRC) but that they weren't considered Veterans by the government.
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Jul 22, 2019 02:11
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bulletsponge13 posted:Heinlein expounds later that Federal Service isn't all military, and that no one can be denied their right to federal service. The equivalent to a retired GS?
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Jul 22, 2019 02:36
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Pretty sure the fight is over the Merchant Marine not getting citizenship because it doesn't count. That's like a ripped from the headlines thing tho, the merchant marine has always felt ripped off in all but the most lucrative wars
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Jul 22, 2019 02:45
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piL posted:I recall Heinlein's opinions on governments seeming to swing all over the place during his 50 years of writing. Yeah I haven't read much of his but I also remember hearing that. His views either evolved/changed over time or he wrote about systems he didn't necessarily believe in.
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Jul 22, 2019 03:51
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I never did any deep dives into his interviews or anything, but I always felt that fascism in ST was a "hey, i'ma write about a fascist system that functions because why the gently caress not it's fiction" and he's always seemed to enjoy doing weird poo poo gently caress with people. He was also transitioning out of young adult novels at the time too.
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Jul 22, 2019 07:06
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In the book he does say that nobody can be denied the opportunity for a term of federal service if they want it. IIRC the example he used went along the lines of "if you were blind they'd have you counting the fuzz on caterpillars by touch or something. " So active military service wasn't the only way to citizenship. And the MM thing was about they didn't get credit for it and resented it. The big caveat was you got one shot - you could quit at any time, even right before a drop, but you never, ever got a second chance at citizenship.
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Jul 22, 2019 07:12
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It still basically boils down to “what if fascism wasn’t racist, reactionary and dysfunctional” which isn’t either realistic nor a good message to send because even without the racism and poo poo, militarism, authoritarianism and fascism are still inherently bad ideas, which is why the movie is amazing satire. The setting also has a very convenient “other” which is a necessary part of fascism. I don’t think he ever explored what would happen to that sort of society when there isn’t any more actually subhuman monsters to fight. Butter Activities fucked around with this message at 12:01 on Jul 22, 2019 |
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Jul 22, 2019 11:58
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Why does the army have a e-sports team? https://www.army.mil/article/216464/thousands_apply_to_join_new_army_esports_team https://militarygamingleague.com/welcome-letter/
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Jul 22, 2019 12:21
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Syrian Lannister posted:Why does the army have a e-sports team? We cannot have an APM gap.
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Jul 22, 2019 12:27
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