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Yinlock posted:depressed tomino has Issues with women Victory Gundam definitely felt like someone was working out some issues with their mom/their wife/being a parent in general on top of the Tomino weirdness about women. At least Katejina was a fun crazy plus her end mobile suit was pretty rad. A+, definitely in my tier of enjoyable crazy Gundam characters.
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Jul 20, 2019 01:56
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Yinlock posted:depressed tomino has Issues with women Victory Gundam: at least katejina takes it all the way to loving crazytown
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Jul 20, 2019 03:19
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The ironic thing about Victory's weird brand of misogyny is that the intended message is about putting women on a pedestal instead of hating them. The entire thesis statement of that show regarding women was that it is pretty much the ultimate tragedy if a woman is forced onto the battlefield, because women are the all-important bringers and creators of life and are therefore sacred. That's why there's so many goddamn OTT deaths for female characters(to highlight the intended tragedy), why two of the most dangerous villains and final bosses were women who were dedicated to combat, and why the deadliest Zanscare pilot in the show, Fuala, is defeated due to having a brain meltdown from sensing the pregnant Marbet's newtype baby and not being able to comprehend it. As someone mentioned upthread, it can be interpreted as pretty much an expansion of Reccoa's arc from Zeta writ large and filtered through a thoroughly depressed Tomino's brainspace at the time of production. Kanos fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 03:25
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Brain Powerd was also inspired by the time Tomino's daugther ran away, IIRC.
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Jul 20, 2019 04:47
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I thought it was just her moving out.
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Jul 20, 2019 06:04
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That puts all of the "Society is falling apart because women have stopped being mothers" stuff in Brain Powerd in an even weirder light than it already was.
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Jul 20, 2019 06:10
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That stuff is also there in Turn A Gundam. Remember that Turn A Gundam's most legitimated and enlightened political leaders are all women whereas all the major antagonists are men in positions of power, with the final main antagonist being the crazy samurai dude who hates the queen and is obsessed with violence and warfare to the point of caricature. Turn A Gundam's gender roles and all the symbolism surrounding them mirrors Victory Gundam, IE that Tomino's vision of maternal femininity should be a kind of bellwether for society as a whole and that maybe Turn A Gundam is a more hopeful setting because you see more proper ladies taking charge in society. Basically I don't think its an accident that Loran got more and more feminine in appearance during the design stages of the series.
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Jul 20, 2019 07:29
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Even G-Reco had its own themes; "This is what happens when a bunch of idiots who have never been anywhere near a war and think starting a war is cool and fun to do actually get their way."
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Jul 20, 2019 10:19
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I’ve heard, but never bothered finding a source, that Tomino wanted Turn A or have a female lead & got shot down by the suits. Thus Laura Rolla. Can anyone confirm this?
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Jul 20, 2019 14:55
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HitTheTargets posted:I’ve heard, but never bothered finding a source, that Tomino wanted Turn A or have a female lead & got shot down by the suits. Thus Laura Rolla. Can anyone confirm this? That's just a fan rumour. Concept art for Loran shows him unmistakeably as a man (far more than the final version, even) 
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Jul 20, 2019 15:21
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Blaze Dragon posted:That's just a fan rumour. Concept art for Loran shows him unmistakeably as a man (far more than the final version, even) what was the design process on the top row "make his outfit dumber. dumber! never stop making it dumb. if i don't see anime marty mcfly on my desk by noon you're fired"
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Jul 20, 2019 16:39
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Blaze Dragon posted:That's just a fan rumour. Concept art for Loran shows him unmistakeably as a man (far more than the final version, even) I'm not a big fan of the hat but lorans outfit on the bottom left looks good
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Jul 20, 2019 18:02
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Gym Ghingham is a wow cool robot Gundam fan.
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Jul 20, 2019 18:04
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Monaghan posted:I'm not a big fan of the hat but lorans outfit on the bottom left looks good I like how he just turns into male sochie at one point Kanos posted:The ironic thing about Victory's weird brand of misogyny is that the intended message is about putting women on a pedestal instead of hating them. The entire thesis statement of that show regarding women was that it is pretty much the ultimate tragedy if a woman is forced onto the battlefield, because women are the all-important bringers and creators of life and are therefore sacred. That's why there's so many goddamn OTT deaths for female characters(to highlight the intended tragedy), why two of the most dangerous villains and final bosses were women who were dedicated to combat, and why the deadliest Zanscare pilot in the show, Fuala, is defeated due to having a brain meltdown from sensing the pregnant Marbet's newtype baby and not being able to comprehend it. yoshiyuki tomino: the man who respected women too much Yinlock fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 19:44
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I’m glad they eventually decided Loran should be a good boy.
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Jul 20, 2019 21:07
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Yinlock posted:yoshiyuki tomino: the man who respected women too much Had he been born decades later, 80s and 90s Tomino could have been a fedora tipping internet "nice" guy. Thankfully those themes in his work seem to have mostly died out as of G-Reco. They're still a little bit there in Aida(who struggles to become an ace pilot despite being bad at it and initially not wanting to embrace her true calling as a commander), but the show has lots of ladies doing lots of things without particular comment on most of them like Raraiya, Barara, and Mick. Kanos fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jul 20, 2019 |
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Jul 20, 2019 21:18
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HitTheTargets posted:I’m glad they eventually decided Loran should be a good boy. one of the original design pictures makes him look like some kind of insane moon cultist  Kanos posted:Had he been born decades later, Tomino could have been a fedora tipping internet "nice" guy. on one hand this would be awful but otoh we could've had a gundam character named Women Respecter
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Jul 20, 2019 21:19
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Kanos posted:Thankfully those themes in his work seem to have mostly died out as of G-Reco. They're still a little bit there in Aida(who struggles to become an ace pilot despite being bad at it and initially not wanting to embrace her true calling as a commander), but the show has lots of ladies doing lots of things without particular comment on most of them like Raraiya, Barara, and Mick. It's been a while since I've seen it, but I think Tomino's weird gender ideology wasn't there much in Overman King Gainer either. Tomino will probably never stop being a cantankerous old cuss, but I do think he's chilled out a bit as time has gone on.
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Jul 20, 2019 22:10
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Yinlock posted:one of the original design pictures makes him look like some kind of insane moon cultist Look at this dude, not remembering the first episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNRaELcYzLQ
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Jul 20, 2019 22:19
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Turn-A has the best casual fashion for downtime between fights.
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Jul 20, 2019 22:25
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I don't think I would say Tomino really chilled out with the gender stuff that much. Like the dude still made The Wings of Rean which features the main character going on a Gundam Unicorn-esque vision quest into the past to find out his mother threatened to abort him as a fetus so she could blackmail his father into leaving his American wife which is maybe the most Tomino thing in existence ever.
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Jul 20, 2019 22:28
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He wrote the books in the 80s so the origin of that at least isn't new. (if its in the books, I ain't read 'em)
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Jul 20, 2019 22:31
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Yinlock posted:yoshiyuki tomino: the man who respected women too much The really funny bit there is that some of the worst scumbags in Gundam are dudes who make a big show of respecting women while actually manipulating the hell out of them. Paptimus and Fonse Kagatie both have it as their whole deal.
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Jul 20, 2019 22:31
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Gripweed posted:Look at this dude, not remembering the first episode no I remembered it, just saying from the image alone it looks less like loran is welcoming his countrymen to earth and more like "DESCEND, ANGRY GOD OF THE RED MOON" Raxivace posted:I don't think I would say Tomino really chilled out with the gender stuff that much. Like the dude still made The Wings of Rean which features the main character going on a Gundam Unicorn-esque vision quest into the past to find out his mother threatened to abort him as a fetus so she could blackmail his father into leaving his American wife which is maybe the most Tomino thing in existence ever. don't forget sakomizu's wife who is of course also cheating on him because racism if the "tomino's girlfriend cheated on him during zeta's production" rumor is true it explains a lot about his shows/books in that era Yinlock fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jul 21, 2019 |
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Jul 21, 2019 00:29
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Yinlock posted:no I remembered it, just saying from the image alone it looks less like loran is welcoming his countrymen to earth and more like "DESCEND, ANGRY GOD OF THE RED MOON" I think it was more that he had the hots for Mamoru Nagano's wife, who either wasn't interested or straight-up didn't notice.
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Jul 21, 2019 11:37
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Darth Walrus posted:I think it was more that he had the hots for Mamoru Nagano's wife, who either wasn't interested or straight-up didn't notice.
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Jul 21, 2019 12:41
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Seeing as that lady played Beltorchika and Quess and not Reccoa I'm gonna say that story is baseless.
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Jul 21, 2019 13:27
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I think it’s usually cited as inciting/worsening the rift between Tomino and Nagano. Thus the latter basically redoing L Gaim as 5 Star Stories, though all he’s ever said publicly is that he was disappointed in L Gaim.
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Jul 21, 2019 13:38
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HitTheTargets posted:I think it’s usually cited as inciting/worsening the rift between Tomino and Nagano. Thus the latter basically redoing L Gaim as 5 Star Stories, though all he’s ever said publicly is that he was disappointed in L Gaim. there's this weird ironclad rule of No Importing Drama among anime directors so if one of the VAs like stabs another in the face they'll be like "yes there could have been some improvements in production but overall"
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Jul 21, 2019 15:46
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Kanos posted:They're still a little bit there in Aida(who struggles to become an ace pilot despite being bad at it and initially not wanting to embrace her true calling as a commander), but the show has lots of ladies doing lots of things without particular comment on most of them like Raraiya, Barara, and Mick. She's not a commander at any point though, she's a diplomat. She specifically talks about how she can't be a commander in the second or third last episode, crying while she talks to Steer about it after both her father and the captain of the Megafauna ask her to become a commander. She doesn't want to be a commander, and she hasn't the talent for piloting but she's a good diplomat. Which is basically what she acts as throughout the show anyway. Nessus posted:Wasn't the story on this one that Maria Kawamura was Reccoa, and when Mamoru Nagano started making time with her, Tomino dumpstered Reccoa's character arc? Like I think Kawamura and Nagano got married around then. How did her arc get dumpstered? Her character makes internal sense throughout the show. She's broken as hell, but the motives and actions line up. She betrays AEUG for the Titans because she made it clear throughout that she is not driven by ideals, and has felt lost since the One Year War ended; joining the AEUG to try and fill that void, but she didn't find the love and fulfillment she wanted there. She even tries to get Char to show some kind of personal affection just before defecting, and he can only order her not to leave instead of making some kind of personal plea. EthanSteele posted:Seeing as that lady played Beltorchika and Quess and not Reccoa I'm gonna say that story is baseless. Tomino was also married himself at the time and served as the best man at Nagano's wedding, so I doubt there's any real substance to any of that rumor. HitTheTargets posted:I think it’s usually cited as inciting/worsening the rift between Tomino and Nagano. Thus the latter basically redoing L Gaim as 5 Star Stories, though all he’s ever said publicly is that he was disappointed in L Gaim. The reasoning I've read behind that is that Nagano was simply not happy with the execution of L-Gaim, and didn't have the control necessary to do more during the show while he had no rights to the property afterwards; so he made his own version. With blackjack, and hookers. It's probably one of the reasons he's so protective of the rights to 5 Star Stories, if that is true. tsob fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jul 21, 2019 |
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Jul 21, 2019 18:19
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Shame that Nagano ruined FSS with the Gothic Made transition
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Jul 21, 2019 19:19
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tsob posted:Tomino was also married himself at the time and served as the best man at Nagano's wedding, so I doubt there's any real substance to any of that rumor. Yeah, based on that and it not even being the right voice actor I'm pretty sure its completely unfounded.
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Jul 21, 2019 20:00
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tsob posted:She's not a commander at any point though, she's a diplomat. She specifically talks about how she can't be a commander in the second or third last episode, crying while she talks to Steer about it after both her father and the captain of the Megafauna ask her to become a commander. She doesn't want to be a commander, and she hasn't the talent for piloting but she's a good diplomat. Which is basically what she acts as throughout the show anyway. That's the point, though? She's really good at being an inspiring authority figure who people receive directives and guidance from. Everyone on the Megafauna hugely respects to her and is willing to defer to her opinion and ideas on major decisions. The entire seemingly harebrained "let's go to space and talk to the Towasangans to try to resolve this idea" was functionally done on her authority despite the Megafauna's original mission boiling down to "harass the Capital Army to break their strangehold on Photon Batteries". That goes beyond simply being a diplomat; you can give her whatever title you want, but she's effectively the driving force of the crew. She spends most of the series running away from that responsibility because it's a really heavy one that not everyone wants to bear - especially since she's been dealing with the trauma of having someone she cared about die - but by the time she has that talk with Steer she's already been doing it for the whole show.
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Jul 21, 2019 20:26
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3 episodes left on Zeta, yay for child abuse jokes! "Corrections" hah Bright gonna slap a bitch. Can we get a gundam series where Bright gets a gundam and its got like a Shining finger type move but for bitch slapping?
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Jul 22, 2019 01:55
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Dead Like Rev posted:3 episodes left on Zeta, yay for child abuse jokes! "Corrections" hah Bright gonna slap a bitch. Can we get a gundam series where Bright gets a gundam and its got like a Shining finger type move but for bitch slapping? Have you considered the SD Gundam games? You can literally have Bright pilot the Shining Gundam in some of those.
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Jul 22, 2019 02:06
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On that topic I picked up Overworld the other day because the only other G Gen game I had played was Genesis and I wanted to see what a "crossover" style G Gen is like. I've only been playing World Tour mode so far, which is more like a Gundam mixtape than a full crossover story (Is that what World Core is?). While the core gameplay loop etc. are almost identical, I think I actually prefer the Overworld. Genesis is admittedly quite dry and likes to make entire multi-wave levels out of offhand comments made by a tertiary character. In that respect the weird mix of vignettes mixes things up a little and keeps stuff from dragging too long. "Ugh..Gundam Rising again? I've played that scene about a 100 times in various games now" but wait, now it's the Gundam jack from SEED *boom* now it's also Flit's first dragon slaying from AGE! Another thing that I realize now made Genesis drag a little is the little exp meter for obtaining story units. Without that, I get to fully concentrate on levelling up my I'll still be buying the heck out of CrossRays though.
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Jul 22, 2019 13:45
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Crossover SD Gundam games are wild, especially the Generation Break stuff.
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Jul 22, 2019 16:30
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World Core is the "original story" of Overworld, for what little there is of it. And Genesis had some problems, born both out of them futzing with the gameplay and stats of the game, and because the overall mech selection drastically reduced the variety in mobile suits you could get.
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Jul 22, 2019 18:38
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Yeah, the new one having a bunch of the AUs means that melee pilots and mechs (which generally have the most interesting choreography) will actually exist vs Genesis having, like, that one ZZ guy from Unicorn with two punchy shields and a chain mine as the highest grade one.
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Jul 22, 2019 19:01
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EthanSteele posted:Yeah, the new one having a bunch of the AUs means that melee pilots and mechs (which generally have the most interesting choreography) will actually exist vs Genesis having, like, that one ZZ guy from Unicorn with two punchy shields and a chain mine as the highest grade one. hell the red frame variations alone could fill an entire team
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Jul 22, 2019 22:03
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