Star Trek: *hits blunt* The higher, the fewerrrrrr

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Star Trek: *hits blunt* The higher, the fewerrrrrr

OldSenileGuy: Mar 13, 2001

I�ve never really been much of a Star Trek fan, but for some reason I�m excited about the Picard show. But I�ve only ever seen a handful of TNG and TOS episodes (enough to know the main players and how they relate to each other), I�ve seen the first two TNG movies, and I don�t know anything about Voyager or DS9.

To try and rectify that with an eye towards not being lost when I watch Picard (next year wtf), I�ve gone through a bunch of the internet�s �best of Picard� lists to cobble together a super-best-of-Picard list. I also put in all the Borg episodes I could find since it seems they will have a big presence in the show as well.

Here�s where I need the internet�s help. First, is there anything missing from this list? Or anything on it that really shouldn�t be there?

Encounter at Farpoint (S01E01&E02)

The Battle (S01E09)

The Big Goodbye (S01E12)

Conspiracy (S01E25)

Where Silence Has Lease (S02E02)

Measure of a Man (S02E09)

Q Who (S02E16)

Samaritan Snare (S02E17)

Who Watches the Watchers (S03E04)

Yesterday�s Enterprise (S03E15)

Allegiance (S03E18)

Captain�s Holiday (S03E19)

Menage a Trois (S03E24)

The Best of Both Worlds (S03E26/S04E01)

Family (S04E02)

QPid (S04E20)

The Drumhead (S04E21)

Redemption (S04E26)

Darmok (S05E02)

Disaster (S05E05)

Conundrum (S05E14)

I Borg (S05E23)

The Inner Light (S05E25)

Chain of Command (S06 E10&11)

Tapestry (S06E15)

Starship Mine (S06E18)

Descent (S0626 & S0701)

Gambit Pts 1&2 (S07 E04&05)

Phantasms (S07E06)

Attached (S07E08)

All Good Things (S07E25&26)

The Four TNG Movies

Second, what would be a comparable list for Voyager? I�m only including Voyager because Seven of Nine was in the Picard trailer, but I really don�t know the first thing about Voyager so I wouldn�t know what to search for. I assume I�m looking for a Best of Voyager list with an emphasis toward 7 of 9 episodes and Borg episodes? What about DS9? Did they have any Borg episodes? Are either of those shows even worth watching?

# ? Jul 22, 2019 03:20

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# ? May 28, 2024 06:47

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

The Borg's only appearance on DS9 is in the first couple of minutes during the pilot where you see the flashback to Wolf 359. That's it.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 03:23

Senor Tron: May 26, 2006

bull3964 posted:

Speculation spoiled because of a casting announcement that hasn't made as many headlines.

Since Hugh is coming back, it's almost certainly going to be something to do with the Borg that became individuals in Descent. My guess is that after Voyager cutoff the Borg's access to the alpha quadrant, the question became what to do about the Borg that were stranded. Romulus must have raided some of the tech (we know because of the Narada) and now view that tech as paramount importance to keep their species alive. The Federation decided to turn a blind eye to that since the Romulans were no serious threat anymore and it solved the Borg problem. But Romulans didn't stop at disconnected Borg, they decided to go after the growing group of individual Borg lead by Hugh. Picard didn't like that and argued that they should be protected just like any other race, but the Federation stated that they weren't a race, only a scattered group of different individual species that they couldn't police and had no business interfering with. Besides, most could live without their implants anyways so the Romulans were doing them a favor.

This girl, I'm guessing, is the first true Borg offspring from the individual group. She wasn't assimilated at a young age. She wasn't grown as a normal baby and then immediately augmented with cybernetics. She was born with nanoprobes as part of her bodily systems. She IS a new species and the future of the individual Borg. The Romulans want her since she proves they are genociding a group of people by scavenging tech and the Federation doesn't want to wade into intervening with the Romulans after what happened the last time (homeworld went boom.) Data is brought back as an expert witness due to his experience in "Measure of a Man" in establishing the standards of new life.

If that's what it ends up being, there's potential there for good story with some decent contemporary allegory.

That builds on what I'm thinking and is a drat fine TNG-worthy premise.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 03:25

MikeJF: Dec 20, 2003

Big Mean Jerk posted:

I would love this but I also dread seeing whatever pointy bullshit John Eaves would turn this hypothetical D redesign into.

Ugh oh yeah when I say updated I mean 'As it was in Generations but all the panels are full-blown animated screens instead of transparencies'.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 03:35

tarlibone: Aug 1, 2014; Fun Shoe

Next up: ST:DS9's "Past Tense." Not a perfect episode--they pulled a Back to the Future II by going back all the way to the year 2024--but it is a lot more interesting, and it saves the silly plot points for the ridiculous technobabble explanation of how they went back in time.

I remember watching this when it was new. I thought all the poo poo about how integrated into society the omnipresent computer network was was pure pie-in-the-sky balderdash. Nobody would get news online, ever.

I bet they would have slipped a "President Trump" into the dialogue if the idea weren't so... (sigh) you know....

# ? Jul 22, 2019 03:42

Mooseontheloose: May 13, 2003

OldSenileGuy posted:

Picard list

I would ditch Decent and add Redemption II and Unification I and II, the Phoenix, and the First Duty.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 03:47

Jealous Cow: Apr 4, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

tarlibone posted:

Next up: ST:DS9's "Past Tense." Not a perfect episode--they pulled a Back to the Future II by going back all the way to the year 2024--but it is a lot more interesting, and it saves the silly plot points for the ridiculous technobabble explanation of how they went back in time.

I remember watching this when it was new. I thought all the poo poo about how integrated into society the omnipresent computer network was was pure pie-in-the-sky balderdash. Nobody would get news online, ever.

I bet they would have slipped a "President Trump" into the dialogue if the idea weren't so... (sigh) you know....

This two parter is way too relevant today. I think we may actually get some real Bell Riots in 2024 at this rate.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 03:59

bull3964: Nov 18, 2000; DO YOU HEAR THAT? THAT'S THE SOUND OF ME PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK.

Mooseontheloose posted:

I would ditch Decent and add Redemption II and Unification I and II, the Phoenix, and the First Duty.

Descent looks like it may be pretty relevant for ST:P.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:02

Hipster_Doofus: Dec 20, 2003; Lovin' every minute of it.

bull3964 posted:

Descent looks like it may be pretty relevant for ST:P.

Yeah. If you're gonna try to cover all potential bases going on what we know so far, it's not exactly optional. Too bad it was something of a turd. Well, part 2 was, as part 2s have an unfortunate tendency to be.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:11

tarlibone: Aug 1, 2014; Fun Shoe

Jealous Cow posted:

This two parter is way too relevant today. I think we may actually get some real Bell Riots in 2024 at this rate.

Yeah. Really, the only thing they got wrong in their predictions of the future was the hilarious idea that by 2024, the US would be using the metric system.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:15

OldSenileGuy: Mar 13, 2001

Hipster_Doofus posted:

Yeah. If you're gonna try to cover all potential bases going on what we know so far, it's not exactly optional. Too bad it was something of a turd. Well, part 2 was, as part 2s have an unfortunate tendency to be.

Meh, I don�t mind if there�s a turd here or there. I�m probably gonna watch more than just what�s in the list. I�ll use the list as a �must watch� roadmap, and pick and choose episodes in between to watch if they sound interesting or, as many of them do, extremely silly.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:16

Powered Descent: Jul 13, 2008; We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

Hipster_Doofus posted:

Yeah. If you're gonna try to cover all potential bases going on what we know so far, it's not exactly optional. Too bad it was something of a turd. Well, part 2 was, as part 2s have an unfortunate tendency to be.

Chain of Command was probably the only TNG two-parter where part 2 was better.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:25

Drink-Mix Man: Mar 4, 2003; You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

bull3964 posted:

Speculation spoiled because of a casting announcement that hasn't made as many headlines.

Since Hugh is coming back, it's almost certainly going to be something to do with the Borg that became individuals in Descent. My guess is that after Voyager cutoff the Borg's access to the alpha quadrant, the question became what to do about the Borg that were stranded. Romulus must have raided some of the tech (we know because of the Narada) and now view that tech as paramount importance to keep their species alive. The Federation decided to turn a blind eye to that since the Romulans were no serious threat anymore and it solved the Borg problem. But Romulans didn't stop at disconnected Borg, they decided to go after the growing group of individual Borg lead by Hugh. Picard didn't like that and argued that they should be protected just like any other race, but the Federation stated that they weren't a race, only a scattered group of different individual species that they couldn't police and had no business interfering with. Besides, most could live without their implants anyways so the Romulans were doing them a favor.

This girl, I'm guessing, is the first true Borg offspring from the individual group. She wasn't assimilated at a young age. She wasn't grown as a normal baby and then immediately augmented with cybernetics. She was born with nanoprobes as part of her bodily systems. She IS a new species and the future of the individual Borg. The Romulans want her since she proves they are genociding a group of people by scavenging tech and the Federation doesn't want to wade into intervening with the Romulans after what happened the last time (homeworld went boom.) Data is brought back as an expert witness due to his experience in "Measure of a Man" in establishing the standards of new life.

If that's what it ends up being, there's potential there for good story with some decent contemporary allegory.

This would kind of rule.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:27

Hipster_Doofus: Dec 20, 2003; Lovin' every minute of it.

Powered Descent posted:

Chain of Command was probably the only TNG two-parter where part 2 was better.

That's the one! As I was typing that I knew there was one case of p2 being better and that, sadly, it wasn't The Best of Both Worlds. (drat near though!)

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:28

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

OldSenileGuy posted:

What about DS9? Did they have any Borg episodes? Are either of those shows even worth watching?

Doesn't appear that DS9 will play any part in Picard. But the show itself is still fantastic. I wish it was available in higher quality/wish they would remaster it though.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:29

Epicurius: Apr 10, 2010; College Slice

FlamingLiberal posted:

She's 81 and has no credits on IMDB in the last 25 years

also Pulaski sucks and felt like 'Dr McCoy, but a woman'

McCoy was awesome, though. The problem with the Pulaski/Data thing is that they were trying to recreate the McCoy/Spock relationship, but it didn't work, and I think that was for two reasons. The first is that Spock gave as good as he got. The second is, that for all of his teasing and harassment, McCoy liked and respected Spock, and was pretty vocal in backing him up when anyone questioned his skills or integrity. You didn't get any of that with Pulaski and Data.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:32

Pick: Jul 19, 2009; Nap Ghost

King Burgundy posted:

Doesn't appear that DS9 will play any part in Picard. But the show itself is still fantastic. I wish it was available in higher quality/wish they would remaster it though.

good. leave deep space 9 alone.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:34

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Pulaski learns to respect Data over the course of the season. The reason why she�s a good character is because she develops. They gave her a character dynamic by having her scrap with Data (early TNG was seriously lacking in character conflicts) but she doesn�t scrap with him just for the hell of it, she comes to understand him as a person and in Peak Performance she�s going to bat for him. The only reason people don�t notice this is because it all takes place over one season and then Pulaski is whisked away and Crusher is back being consistently boring and not having any conflict with anyone else. Pulaski and Data could have been great, the groundwork was laid for them to become sparring partners like Spock and McCoy or Odo and Quark. It just wasn�t followed up for backroom reasons.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:44

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

Epicurius posted:

McCoy was awesome, though. The problem with the Pulaski/Data thing is that they were trying to recreate the McCoy/Spock relationship, but it didn't work, and I think that was for two reasons. The first is that Spock gave as good as he got. The second is, that for all of his teasing and harassment, McCoy liked and respected Spock, and was pretty vocal in backing him up when anyone questioned his skills or integrity. You didn't get any of that with Pulaski and Data.

Yeah with Data coming across as so innocent of human relationships it really felt like she was bullying him.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:45

A GIANT PARSNIP: Apr 13, 2010; Too much fuckin' eggnog

Shifting the borg to normal looking individuals who happen to have borg nanoprobes and who can stealth assimilate people would own.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:46

1000 Brown M and Ms: Oct 22, 2008; F:\DL>quickfli 4-clowns.fli

Big Mean Jerk posted:

That species also shows up in Gambit where they run a scrapyard for the federation. The dude in charge is also kind of a giant tool.

Unification actually, but yeah, that guy was a dick.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:54

Big Mean Jerk: Jan 27, 2009; Well, of course I know him.
He's me.

1000 Brown M and Ms posted:

Unification actually, but yeah, that guy was a dick.

poo poo you�re right, I always confuse that B plot with the one from Gambit where they�re tracking down Picard in that bar

# ? Jul 22, 2019 04:56

corn in the bible: Jun 5, 2004; Oh no oh god it's all true!

OldSenileGuy posted:

Second, what would be a comparable list for Voyager? I�m only including Voyager because Seven of Nine was in the Picard trailer, but I really don�t know the first thing about Voyager so I wouldn�t know what to search for. I assume I�m looking for a Best of Voyager list with an emphasis toward 7 of 9 episodes and Borg episodes? What about DS9? Did they have any Borg episodes? Are either of those shows even worth watching?

There are a fair number of borg episodes in voyager, but the show as a whole is pretty bad and quite dull for the most part. If you watch a lot of TNG and want More Star Trek, well, that's basically the entire reason Voyager exists, but barring that it's not really worth your time

# ? Jul 22, 2019 05:10

Powered Descent: Jul 13, 2008; We haven't had that spirit here since 1969.

A GIANT PARSNIP posted:

Shifting the borg to normal looking individuals who happen to have borg nanoprobes and who can stealth assimilate people would own.

The Borg were created by Man.
They evolved.
They rebelled.
They look and feel Human.
Some are programmed to think they are Human.
There are many copies.
And they have a Plan.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 05:11

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

A GIANT PARSNIP posted:

Shifting the borg to normal looking individuals who happen to have borg nanoprobes and who can stealth assimilate people would own.

At least one of the post-Voyager ST novels had a plot like this

# ? Jul 22, 2019 05:16

MikeJF: Dec 20, 2003

A GIANT PARSNIP posted:

Shifting the borg to normal looking individuals who happen to have borg nanoprobes and who can stealth assimilate people would own.

Eh, it'd change the Borg to just entirely different. They're a force of nature that doesn't need to do that because they don't care. They're not playing politics or stealth takeovers. That's just not a level they need to bother to operate on. Your only hope is, if you have something they want, to be slightly too irritating to be worth it.

I feel like doing something like that would be... lowering them to the level of everyone else. The Borg are best treated like a distant elder god and the Romulans messing with the cube are like that hapless secret project that exists in countless stories that's messing with things beyond their understanding and brings disaster down on all.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jul 22, 2019

# ? Jul 22, 2019 05:26

Angry Salami: Jul 27, 2013; Don't trust the skull.

OldSenileGuy posted:

Second, what would be a comparable list for Voyager? I�m only including Voyager because Seven of Nine was in the Picard trailer, but I really don�t know the first thing about Voyager so I wouldn�t know what to search for. I assume I�m looking for a Best of Voyager list with an emphasis toward 7 of 9 episodes and Borg episodes? What about DS9? Did they have any Borg episodes? Are either of those shows even worth watching?

Seven of Nine/Borg focused Voyager list:

"Unity" (3x17)

"Scorpion 1&2" (3x26 + 4x01)

"The Gift" (4x02)

"The Raven" (4x06)

"One" (4x25)

"Hope and Fear" (4x26)

"Drone" (5x02)

"Infinite Regress" (5x07)

"Dark Frontier" (5x15 + 5x16)

"Someone to Watch Over Me" (5x22)

"Survival Instinct" (6x02)

"Collective" (6x16)

"Child's Play" (6x19)

"Unimatrix Zero 1&2" (6x26 + 7x01)

"Body and Soul" (7x07)

"Endgame" (7x25)

Man, I'm glad Discovery's gone back to TOS style overly-florid episode titles. Looking at a list of bland one-word titles and trying to remember what the episode was about is no fun...

# ? Jul 22, 2019 05:42

Arglebargle III: Feb 21, 2006

tarlibone posted:

Next up: ST:DS9's "Past Tense." Not a perfect episode--they pulled a Back to the Future II by going back all the way to the year 2024--but it is a lot more interesting, and it saves the silly plot points for the ridiculous technobabble explanation of how they went back in time.

I remember watching this when it was new. I thought all the poo poo about how integrated into society the omnipresent computer network was was pure pie-in-the-sky balderdash. Nobody would get news online, ever.

I bet they would have slipped a "President Trump" into the dialogue if the idea weren't so... (sigh) you know....

They honestly got a lot of things right for the time period! There's a concurrent internet tech boom and homelessness crisis in San Francisco.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 06:03

Farmer Crack-Ass: Jan 2, 2001; this is me posting irl

Lemniscate Blue posted:

She's still alive but her last acting credit is from 1993. And that was a voice job (on Batman: TAS!)

also she was fairly miserable during her time on TNG so i doubt she'd be up for another stint on Trek

# ? Jul 22, 2019 06:22

davidspackage: May 16, 2007; Nap Ghost

thotsky posted:

Also, Patrick Stewart seems way too old for this, even in the small clips they picked for the trailer. Seems like they're taking a pretty big risk casting all of these old timers. I guess Picard would be the right character to confront Ageism with, but if it does not work out will the nostalgia alone enough to revitalize the franchise, or even compete with The Orville? I guess they did keep making the TOS movies for a good long while...

When I saw PatStew in interviews after Logan came out, I realized that's just his voice now, a little quavery and hoarse and not as firm and commanding as when he was younger. It's just the years catching up with him but I suspect it'll make watching STP a little painful to watch.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 06:44

MikeJF: Dec 20, 2003

There's a shot in the Picard trailer where Mystery Woman stops to stare into a shop full of TVs on display and sees an old interview with Picard on all of them and I keep coming back to it. It just... bugs me so much. It makes no sense for that to exist in this world, it's just a modern-day story trope transplanted into the 25th century, and I know it's really silly and I'm an oversensitive idiot but that one shot dampens my anticipation a lot because it seems like they're not really going to build on the TNG setting or stay aware of the world these people exist in.

And yes I know Star Trek has always had that problem and is full of lazy 20th century poo poo crammed into a world that doesn't fit it. Still.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Jul 22, 2019

# ? Jul 22, 2019 06:47

Laterite: Mar 14, 2007; It's Gutfest '89; Grimey Drawer

whoa-oh
fat data
bam a lam

# ? Jul 22, 2019 07:24

davidspackage: May 16, 2007; Nap Ghost

In case of an emergency, my body can be used as a bloatation device

# ? Jul 22, 2019 08:03

Drink-Mix Man: Mar 4, 2003; You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

davidspackage posted:

In case of an emergency, my body can be used as a bloatation device

Lol

# ? Jul 22, 2019 08:04

BioEnchanted: Aug 9, 2011; He plays for the dreamers that forgot how to dream, and the lovers that forgot how to love.

MikeJF posted:

There's a shot in the Picard trailer where Mystery Woman stops to stare into a shop full of TVs on display and sees an old interview with Picard on all of them and I keep coming back to it. It just... bugs me so much. It makes no sense for that to exist in this world, it's just a modern-day story trope transplanted into the 25th century, and I know it's really silly and I'm an oversensitive idiot but that one shot dampens my anticipation a lot because it seems like they're not really going to build on the TNG setting or stay aware of the world these people exist in.

And yes I know Star Trek has always had that problem and is full of lazy 20th century poo poo crammed into a world that doesn't fit it. Still.

That particular point is especially true as TNG established in the episode with the frozen 20th century people that TV as a medium died centuries ago.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 08:05

Mooseontheloose: May 13, 2003

OldSenileGuy posted:

Meh, I don�t mind if there�s a turd here or there. I�m probably gonna watch more than just what�s in the list. I�ll use the list as a �must watch� roadmap, and pick and choose episodes in between to watch if they sound interesting or, as many of them do, extremely silly.

You may want to add the Defector and the Neutral Zone to the list to get some Romulus flavor that involved Picard.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 11:40

Drone: Aug 22, 2003; Incredible machine

BioEnchanted posted:

That particular point is especially true as TNG established in the episode with the frozen 20th century people that TV as a medium died centuries ago.

Just wait until you get to Voyager trotting it out again as Tom Paris becomes oddly obsessed with twentieth-century America in a vain effort to make his character more interesting I guess.

Or in Enterprise when suddenly they start screening weekly pulp movies in the mess hall like it's an episode of M*A*S*H or something.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 12:38

Drink-Mix Man: Mar 4, 2003; You are an odd fellow, but I must say... you throw a swell shindig.

BioEnchanted posted:

That particular point is especially true as TNG established in the episode with the frozen 20th century people that TV as a medium died centuries ago.

The tv store in the trailer is a boutique shop in old earth town

# ? Jul 22, 2019 12:57

Jealous Cow: Apr 4, 2002; by Fluffdaddy

tarlibone posted:

Yeah. Really, the only thing they got wrong in their predictions of the future was the hilarious idea that by 2024, the US would be using the metric system.

Well, that and assuming we�d be compassionate enough to at least attempt to house the unemployed. In reality the Bell Riots are gonna start next to a bus station under an overpass in downtown Austin.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 13:11

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# ? May 28, 2024 06:47

Drone: Aug 22, 2003; Incredible machine

It's gonna be less Sanctuary Districts and more Sanctuary Camps, actually.

# ? Jul 22, 2019 13:23

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Star Trek: *hits blunt* The higher, the fewerrrrrr

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