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Am I misremembering a different game or does one of your crewmembers betray you at some point? If so is it avoidable?
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Jul 22, 2019 19:12
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You are misremembering.
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Jul 22, 2019 19:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Am I misremembering a different game or does one of your crewmembers betray you at some point? If so is it avoidable? Wasteland 2 has something like that with Rose, the Cochise AI takes her over through her cyber arm.
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Jul 22, 2019 20:13
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You are thinking of [Insert Obsidian game here]
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Jul 22, 2019 20:13
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sean10mm posted:WOTC has better skill trees, but Battletech combination of pilot skills + mech salvage + mech customization is better than WOTC's skill trees + equipment progression + weapon mods. Interesting take. I have basically the opposite reaction. I find that ultimately I want all my mechwarriors in the biggest mechs I can salvage and to all have coolant vent and sensor lock (that should probably be sure footing instead, but w/e), so there isn't nearly the sense of progression that I get in WOTC as my Templars and Reapers and Sharpshooters become Lords of Death.
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Jul 22, 2019 20:51
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I accidentally put Sensor Lock on my melee punchmans pilot (alcohol may have been involved in this decision) and it actually ended up being the best choice. There's plenty of situations where I don't want him to move out from my ECM bubble (as he is protecting my Cyclops/Z AC20 sniper and 6x LL+++ Get Out of Here, Stalker-3F) but he's also out of shooting range and has otherwise nothing to do. Might as well pop Sensor Lock on things and make them die faster.
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Jul 22, 2019 20:57
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ulmont posted:Interesting take. I have basically the opposite reaction. I find that ultimately I want all my mechwarriors in the biggest mechs I can salvage and to all have coolant vent and sensor lock (that should probably be sure footing instead, but w/e), so there isn't nearly the sense of progression that I get in WOTC as my Templars and Reapers and Sharpshooters become Lords of Death. Going from a Locust to a King Crab doesn't have a sense of progression?  The pilots themselves can get pretty same-y in Battletech, but WOTC doesn't really have anything analogous to  HOLY poo poo HEADSHOT I JUST LUCKED INTO AN ENTIRE ______ like you can get with Battletech. Everything is linear and locked behind gates of research/money/resources and basically goes the same way every time except for the random skills unlocked with the Training Center. (Finding out your Templar can get *Bladestorm* is pretty friggin' great tho) Of course if you don't like tinkering with mech builds all the time then you miss out on a lot of what sets Battletech's progression from WOTC.
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Jul 22, 2019 21:05
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I think I've written several versions of this post in this thread, but Battletech has a fundamental problem in that it doesn't really know if it wants progression to be pilot based or mech based (I argue you need to pick one to be primary), and as a result pilots are functionally interchangeable (which is a big problem if you want your players to get attached to them - Dekker is a meme because he comes with Evasive, which a) makes him different and b) gets him killed) and mechs all just go in one direction with weight. And the game gets less interesting when you hit the assault class. All nuance goes out of the window in favour of turrets trading precise shots at weakened armour points. And tinkering with Mech builds isn't really a thing. You get a mix of SRMs and Medium/Large lasers. There. Sure you can try and do interesting things, but optimal play is a solved problem and it doesn't lead to much variety. e: I think Battletech is a good game and all and has tons of promise for the future, but it just can't match the fourth iteration of a game system that Firaxis have been working on for over ten years now and it isn't fair to. WOTC is such a refined game you can't sensibly match anything against it. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jul 22, 2019 |
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Jul 22, 2019 21:37
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Dekker doesn't come with any abilities locked in. He pilots a Spider by default so they figure they'll keep him in the Spider and make him the dedicated "scout/light" pilot.
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Jul 22, 2019 21:50
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I specced my Dekker into a Bulwark/Coolant Vent Guts pilot. He never died. 
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Jul 22, 2019 22:00
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sean10mm posted:Going from a Locust to a King Crab doesn't have a sense of progression? Alchenar basically wrote what I would have said but longer. I find that both my mechs (explicitly my mechs, because (a) I know what I want a mech to look like (b) if a mech doesn't work with the scheme I move on to other mechs and (c) I'm basically running a used mech dealership out of the Argo about halfway through the game) and my pilots (as discussed above) are very samey. So yes, there's a progression in moving from lighter to heavier mechs, and from pilots that suck to pilots that can hit things and have Coolant Vent, but it's the same progression each game for each mech and pilot (barring RNG vagaries, but using Kintaros instead of Wolverines one game isn't a meaningful change). sean10mm posted:Of course if you don't like tinkering with mech builds all the time then you miss out on a lot of what sets Battletech's progression from WOTC. Why would I tinker with a mech build? I know what I want my Hunchbacks, Shadow Hawks, Grasshoppers, Orions, etc. to look like. When I get one, I refit it to the way I want it and then I never touch it again. I mean, I love the Battletech game and I have...756 hours in it, looks like, but I find the progression more interesting in WOTC .
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Jul 22, 2019 22:07
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Alchenar posted:You are thinking of [Insert Obsidian game here] That's mostly what I play yeah so it must just be a reflex I keep looking around the cockpit like which of you will betray me glad to know we're all buds
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Jul 22, 2019 22:09
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All good points, but have you considered that Meat is cheap, Mechs are expensive?
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Jul 22, 2019 22:14
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Taerkar posted:All good points, but have you considered that Meat is cheap, Mechs are expensive? But it's the opposite, 10-10-10-10 pilot is worth way more than any mech he's riding, which is why you should punch out if they're at risk. On basically any level I think if you compare Battletech to WOTC then Battletech would be better if it moved closer to WOTC. Make pilots really specialist - let them focus on weight classes and then even into specific mechs and give them ridiculous special abilities and quirks for doing so.
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Jul 22, 2019 22:44
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Alchenar posted:But it's the opposite, 10-10-10-10 pilot is worth way more than any mech he's riding, which is why you should punch out if they're at risk. I don't want Battletech's turn based combat to be more like WOTC. I don't want salvage to go away because there are 1,000,000 strategy games where you work through a tech tree and then you spend money and resources to incrementally upgrade poo poo piecemeal over a long period of time, and I like being a trash panda for giant robot chunks I guess. WOTC class and skill system is way better. The strategy layer is just wayyyyy more involved. But I just like the actual combat in BT quite a bit more than the combat in WOTC. 
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Jul 22, 2019 23:00
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Oh my god I found ECM equipment in the Davion faction store. 7.2 million credits, 6 tons. I am so going to farm another 5 million credits or so and buy it, holy poo poo. Then I can ditch my beloved Raven and put this thing on my Cyclops/Z and strip off a Large Laser. Swapping a Raven for like a King Crab but maintaining the ECM is pretty much gg nextmatch. edit: yesssssssssss Vasudus fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Jul 23, 2019 |
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Jul 22, 2019 23:33
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ulmont posted:
I think this is just an unfortunate consequence of the game's stock 3025 setting which is by far and away the least interesting or varied setting to play in in the whole battletech universe. (Shut up 3025 purists, it was NOT GOOD). The sparse gear selection and restricted nature of rare item acquisition (in stock) basically guarantees that, yeah, every build is going to end up being really same-y. Because that's all there is, really. None of the options to make building mechs more interesting exist at all outside of the mods that, while really good, can't quite manage custom weapon implementations as good as the first party HBS ones.
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Jul 23, 2019 02:54
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I did a lostech flashpoint and got 1/4th of a fancy black Knight. Doesn't seem worth it. Are the rewards save scummable? I'd rather have something I can actually use. Or is finding the other three pieces more likely to happen than I think?
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Jul 23, 2019 09:58
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There are other flashpoints with lostech rewards. If you haven't cleared them out yet, you can try getting other Black Knight parts.
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Jul 23, 2019 10:46
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It took XCOM two games and 2 expansions (one of them so large it was basically it's own new game) just to make the strategic layer not trash and the combat layer never stopped being crippled by the awful pod system. Literally the only thing it has going for it over Battletech is the progression mechanics (which are admittedly really good).
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Jul 23, 2019 10:48
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KPC_Mammon posted:I did a lostech flashpoint and got 1/4th of a fancy black Knight. Doesn't seem worth it. Are the rewards save scummable? I'd rather have something I can actually use. You can savescum flashpoint rewards if you have a save right before the end of the last mission in a chain. It'll be a totally new random roll. I also think plain mech parts for rewards are really bad from them, especially if you're playing at >3 parts per mech for assembling new chassis. e: I've gone multiple career mode playthroughs without assembling a single lostech chassis via flashpoint mechpart rewards, too, fwiw. If you use one of the mods that lets you combine parts from different chassis for assembly you might end up with more success with it though. Gwaihir fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Jul 23, 2019 |
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Jul 23, 2019 12:17
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I savescum the lostech flashpoint rewards because they are fairly rare and the RNG cam easily gently caress you out of getting a full set of ANY SLDF mech parts even if you do them all.
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Jul 23, 2019 12:26
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DatonKallandor posted:It took XCOM two games and 2 expansions (one of them so large it was basically it's own new game) just to make the strategic layer not trash and the combat layer never stopped being crippled by the awful pod system. Literally the only thing it has going for it over Battletech is the progression mechanics (which are admittedly really good). You are wrong also Battletechs lack of a pod system is explicitly the thing that breaks the evasion mechanic, forcing all fights into bulwarked mechs trading volleys until one side falls over. More mech/weapon variety also wont change the fact that the optimal tactic is bulwarked mechs trading volleys. Battletech needs something like pods and it needs to contracts system and the battle generator to be talking to each other.
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Jul 23, 2019 12:43
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Alchenar posted:You are wrong also Battletechs lack of a pod system is explicitly the thing that breaks the evasion mechanic, forcing all fights into bulwarked mechs trading volleys until one side falls over. If you play with permanent evasion and the various TT inspired gunnery modifiers it's a very different experience. I'm not actually sure I really like it better, but if you're someone who doesn't like to only play bulwarked mechs moving between patches of cover as your only moves then it's worth doing. In practice it doesn't really make bringing light units for you as the player worthwhile, simply because you're still capped at 4 units and there's just not really space for them. It also ends up making the AI look really silly because if they don't have any sensor locks than they'll rarely end up even shooting at you. With fast units you can build up so many penalties for them to hit that the AI will conclude that it's not worth wasting heat/ammo on a really poor shot and thus only shoot like a single laser or something. But it also makes it take a lot longer for you to be able to get to the point where you have almost perfect gunnery, and even with 10 gunnery pilots if you're in poor positions or trying to shoot at fast enemies while you yourself jumped or sprinted, your shots will be awful.
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Jul 23, 2019 12:59
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I really want a Gauss Rifle but I’m playing largely vanilla so my best option is probably savescumming a LosTech Flashpoint right?
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Jul 23, 2019 13:14
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Vasudus posted:I really want a Gauss Rifle but I’m playing largely vanilla so my best option is probably savescumming a LosTech Flashpoint right? There's a flashpoint that always awards a gauss if you choose the right option in the mission briefing. Also both rare part and lostech part rewards can include 732b parts, and that comes with a gauss unless you are playing with the option that makes salvaged mechs be "empty" or whatever it's called. sean10mm fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Jul 23, 2019 |
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Jul 23, 2019 13:17
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DatonKallandor posted:It took XCOM two games and 2 expansions (one of them so large it was basically it's own new game) just to make the strategic layer not trash and the combat layer never stopped being crippled by the awful pod system. Literally the only thing it has going for it over Battletech is the progression mechanics (which are admittedly really good). Sounds like someone lost half the council
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Jul 23, 2019 13:33
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Gwaihir posted:You can savescum flashpoint rewards if you have a save right before the end of the last mission in a chain. It'll be a totally new random roll. I also think plain mech parts for rewards are really bad from them, especially if you're playing at >3 parts per mech for assembling new chassis. I'm running 4 parts and empty salvaged mechs, I think I'm going to savescum. What are everyone's favorite Lostec?
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Jul 23, 2019 16:45
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KPC_Mammon posted:What are everyone's favorite Lostec? Double heatsinks 
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Jul 23, 2019 16:51
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LosTech weapons are markedly worse than bonused equipment, so the real good poo poo is the Double Heatsinks.
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Jul 23, 2019 16:54
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Vasudus posted:I really want a Gauss Rifle but I’m playing largely vanilla so my best option is probably savescumming a LosTech Flashpoint right? You can get 2 GRs guaranteed by taking the Davion pirate hunting flashpoint that takes place in Taurian space (don't remember what its called). When you get to the point where you have to decide which sibling to go after, pick the brother. Don't worry about how you kill his Jagermech with respect to salvage: you'll get the GRs and 2 tons of ammo as a flashpoint reward no matter how badly you blow his mech apart.
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Jul 23, 2019 16:55
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Conspiratiorist posted:LosTech weapons are markedly worse than bonused equipment, so the real good poo poo is the Double Heatsinks. Gauss rifles are great imo. Hits harder than an AC/10, no recoil penalty, hardly any heat, and tons of range.
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Jul 23, 2019 17:12
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I watched that custom Jagermech have an ammo explosion off of Gauss rifle ammo though, that's not supposed to happen!
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Jul 23, 2019 17:19
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The best +++ gyro, cockpit and arm mods are only given as lostech item flashpoint rewards too.
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Jul 23, 2019 17:20
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And Tyler Too! posted:Gauss rifles are great imo. Hits harder than an AC/10, no recoil penalty, hardly any heat, and tons of range. It's merely okay.
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Jul 23, 2019 17:25
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Yeah Double Heatsinks are the only LosTech that are truly worthy the name/prestige. The Gauss Rifle is alright but its not much more than an upgraded ac/10. The ++ version of the Gauss is pretty good but it's obviously extremely rare and even if you get the rifle there's no guarantee you'll find the ammo to go with it.
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Jul 23, 2019 23:25
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sean10mm posted:Going from a Locust to a King Crab doesn't have a sense of progression? :confuoo The huge difference in this is that if I have a character in XCOM, and they survive long enough, they are going to increase in power level from squaddie to unstoppable death machine, and so will their weapons, provided I have enough money. I love a lot about Battletech, but the fact that I don't have the next level of mechs until I kill them in just the right way is one of the most frustrating parts of the game. How long does it take you to actually salvage that King Crab at the end of the game? Moreover, how long does it take you to get that first Shadow Hawk when all you have are light low medium mechs? I'm probably in the minority of absolutely hating the salvage mechanic, but it really does make Battletech more grindy to actually get better stuff. I've played entire career mode campaignd where I never got a full King Crab or Atlas because I just kept seeing the 90 ton assaults, and there's nothing I can do but grind more and hope I get lucky.
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Jul 24, 2019 00:20
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Gwaihir posted:I think this is just an unfortunate consequence of the game's stock 3025 setting which is by far and away the least interesting or varied setting to play in in the whole battletech universe. Multiplayer battletech 3025 was the best Battleteh game of all time, murdered in the cradle
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Jul 24, 2019 01:15
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Alchenar posted:Make pilots really specialist - let them focus on weight classes and then even into specific mechs and give them ridiculous special abilities and quirks for doing so. I would love to see a mechanic in place where your pilots gained affinity bonuses for piloting the same mech. Bump the stats (to hit %, stability, max evasion etc.) for pilots if they have hit an experience threshold (such as acquiring their 3rd skill) and have used the same mech X times.
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Jul 24, 2019 02:00
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Angrymantium posted:I love a lot about Battletech, but the fact that I don't have the next level of mechs until I kill them in just the right way is one of the most frustrating parts of the game. How long does it take you to actually salvage that King Crab at the end of the game? I mean I got three King Crabs because I headshot three of them in a row, so "immediately" 
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Jul 24, 2019 04:21
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