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BiggerBoat posted:Has anyone ever crunched the numbers for UHC in a way that compares what people pay in premiums and deductibles now vs. what they'd pay in taxes under a national system? Genuinely curious. lol what cost
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Jul 25, 2019 11:13
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BiggerBoat posted:Has anyone ever crunched the numbers for UHC in a way that compares what people pay in premiums and deductibles now vs. what they'd pay in taxes under a national system? Genuinely curious. The cost of what they pay for health insurance (which they can always whittle down over the years) is absolutely worth the power it gives them over the workforce. Health plans are opaque, offer few if any choices, and if you don't have one, you're risking bankruptcy. It's the perfect thing to hang over your employees heads. Even people who could easily quit their job and never work again still toil in fear of a medical emergency ruining things. Why do you think M4A loses support when people are told that they have to "give up their health plan"? Americans have a Pavlovian fear around the phrase "lose your health insurance" because even if they hate it, the alternative is worse.
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Jul 25, 2019 12:32
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BiggerBoat posted:Or do they just enjoy lording lovely coverage over wage slaves as part of compensation? Yeah.
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Jul 25, 2019 12:43
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BiggerBoat posted:Has anyone ever crunched the numbers for UHC in a way that compares what people pay in premiums and deductibles now vs. what they'd pay in taxes under a national system? Genuinely curious. didn’t the loving Koch brothers fund a study that found that m4a would be way cheaper than the world’s dumbest health care system (ours)? like, in countries with uhc even unfunded health care for non-residents is cheaper than health care for people with “good insurance” in the US my dad got pneumonia in Canada a few years back and full price diagnosis and treatment was cheaper than his copay in the US would’ve been
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Jul 25, 2019 13:09
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I think UHC would work in the US if you took a page from Trump’s coloring book and called it “Triple Gold Star American Health Plan” and explained that Canada could only get two gold stars from the International Star Agency
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Jul 25, 2019 13:10
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BiggerBoat posted:Has anyone ever crunched the numbers for UHC in a way that compares what people pay in premiums and deductibles now vs. what they'd pay in taxes under a national system? Genuinely curious. any big change is bad when you're the one with all the money and the power right now, and a workforce who will straight up die horribly if they lose their jobs is a workforce that knows its place
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Jul 25, 2019 13:31
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BiggerBoat posted:Has anyone ever crunched the numbers for UHC in a way that compares what people pay in premiums and deductibles now vs. what they'd pay in taxes under a national system? Genuinely curious. It would save a lot of money is the best answer, because no one can really estimate the enormous savings we'd have with negotiating using a risk pool of 350 million people for medical prices.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:07
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BiggerBoat posted:Has anyone ever crunched the numbers for UHC in a way that compares what people pay in premiums and deductibles now vs. what they'd pay in taxes under a national system? Genuinely curious. https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/aug/03/bernie-s/did-conservative-study-show-big-savings-bernie-san/ Essentially even an extremely conservative think tank found that M4A could save up to 2 trillion dollars over 10 years. In context, you have to realize that figure is probably bullshit. The savings would probably be far higher, but Koch funded studies have a huge bias.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:14
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Most people "like" their health insurance because they haven't (yet) had to engage it over something expensive. They get their checkups and the flu shots paid for, a colorful newsletter full of wellness tips arrives in their mailbox every so often, and they have the peace-of-mind knowing that they're "covered" if something really bad goes wrong. Of course, once something serious and expensive happens, the insurance companies reveal their true demonic faces, but until then, as far as most people are concerned, everything is working great. There's also the same thing you see in people opposed to raising the minimum wage. Getting good (or even "good") health insurance in America is an accomplishment, and if everyone has access to good health care, well that rather diminishes the value of what I did to land a job that offers good insurance, the same way people get really mad at the thought of janitors and bus drivers and food service workers closing the wage gap with them, despite not affecting them or costing them a nickel.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:17
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FMguru posted:There's also the same thing you see in people opposed to raising the minimum wage... I'm on your side comrade, but in fairness, this isn't entirely accurate. If the current minimum wage is 8$ an hour and it's raised to 15$ an hour, it's likely that the cost of some goods and services will increase. If you're currently making 16$ an hour and the minimum wage goes up but your wages don't (unlikely but not impossible) you may be worse off. Even if that's true we absolutely should raise the minimum wage to livable levels, it's sociopathic that people are so FYGM that they want some people to live in poverty so they can pay peanuts for peanuts.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:22
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pseudanonymous posted:I'm on your side comrade, but in fairness, this isn't entirely accurate. If the current minimum wage is 8$ an hour and it's raised to 15$ an hour, it's likely that the cost of some goods and services will increase. If you're currently making 16$ an hour and the minimum wage goes up but your wages don't (unlikely but not impossible) you may be worse off. I usually tell these people that they are also getting ripped off and maybe they should be brave and confront the bosses about it like these fry cooks are, instead of punching down because it's the easiest and least confrontational option
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Jul 25, 2019 14:31
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pseudanonymous posted:I'm on your side comrade, but in fairness, this isn't entirely accurate. If the current minimum wage is 8$ an hour and it's raised to 15$ an hour, it's likely that the cost of some goods and services will increase. If you're currently making 16$ an hour and the minimum wage goes up but your wages don't (unlikely but not impossible) you may be worse off. Well, I guess let's just throw our hands up in the air and do nothing then
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Jul 25, 2019 14:38
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pseudanonymous posted:I'm on your side comrade, but in fairness, this isn't entirely accurate. If the current minimum wage is 8$ an hour and it's raised to 15$ an hour, it's likely that the cost of some goods and services will increase. If you're currently making 16$ an hour and the minimum wage goes up but your wages don't (unlikely but not impossible) you may be worse off. New York and seattle disagree with you The real problem is the GOP brainwashing. The dems do something that people can benefit from the bluedog dems resist it as much as they can. the GOP outright refusess to implement the program. poo poo gets better in dem cities. poo poo gets worse in GOP cities. Gop leaders point to poo poo getting worse and say See the democrats abandoned you. GOP mouthbreathers huff that paint. with poo poo like wage increases bluedog dems and gop leadership always complain "poo poo is gonna cost more"...but they are the ones who raise the prices of things they have control over and they only do it so they can say "see? look things are more expensive because you make more" this is actually quite illegal but since no one holds government officials to account for their misdeeds the country continues to get worse. I think the purge should be real...except all the people go after government officials who abuse their authority instead AkumaHokoru has issued a correction as of 14:54 on Jul 25, 2019 |
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Jul 25, 2019 14:50
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BiggerBoat posted:Has anyone ever crunched the numbers for UHC in a way that compares what people pay in premiums and deductibles now vs. what they'd pay in taxes under a national system? Genuinely curious.
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Jul 25, 2019 14:52
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AkumaHokoru posted:New York and seattle disagree with you No... they don't? I live in Seattle, I've read several of the studies. Also, I was affected by the minimum wage increase. Overall a very good thing, but with some costs.
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Jul 25, 2019 15:13
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you can tell that the minimum wage hike experiments were successful because chud think tanks and poo poo libs are still refusing to leave the realm of abstracts, because after all, more people having more money to spend increasing the velocity of money being a unambiguous good for the economy is Marxism
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Jul 25, 2019 15:18
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Epic High Five posted:I usually tell these people that they are also getting ripped off and maybe they should be brave and confront the bosses about it like these fry cooks are, instead of punching down because it's the easiest and least confrontational option
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Jul 25, 2019 15:19
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Knight posted:Now that you say it like that, it's really clear that's why they focus their anger "downward." They view the world as highly regimented and asking their bosses for more money is disrupting that order ("you should be thanking them for what they give you!") and anyone who doesn't know their place deserves scorn. So they cowards take it out on service workers and exhausted mothers at the checkout aisle. yep, when you frame it like that they're forced to either admit that burger flippers are braver than they are, or that actually they don't deserve more money (in which case you encourage them to tell their boss just that) pretty much everybody is underpaid, the whole reason I started with this angle is because I was EMT-B certified and the chuds looooove to be like "DO YOU THINK YOU, BURGER FLIPPER, DESERVE TO MAKE AS MUCH AS A PARAMEDIC" and the only thing there is to point out that paramedics are massively, massively underpaid for what they do and the wealth their labors create, and EMT-Bs even moreso "they should also get a raise" doesn't work as well as "you should also be paid more for what you do" because it doesn't appeal to the venal greed that is at the root of reactionary economic sentiments
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Jul 25, 2019 15:31
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https://twitter.com/commondreams/status/1154110827512893440quote:Around 120 miners and their families traveled to Washington, D.C. this week to meet with the Kentucky Republican and pressure him to take action to finance the federal Black Lung Disability Trust Fund, which serves as a lifeline for an estimated 12,000 former coal miners nationwide.
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Jul 25, 2019 16:11
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fortunately he doesn't have to be decent to them in any way, because they will still vote for him in the next election.
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Jul 25, 2019 16:16
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They'll still vote for him next time
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Jul 25, 2019 16:19
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:fortunately he doesn't have to be decent to them in any way, because they will still vote for him in the next election. just in awe of how well that red text has aged
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Jul 25, 2019 16:20
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Iron Crowned posted:They'll still vote for him next time props to McConnell for having figured out how to play the game way better than virtually everyone else
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Jul 25, 2019 16:32
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It's time to admit that Mitch McConnell is an extraordinarily talented politician.
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Jul 25, 2019 17:29
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Epic High Five posted:you can tell that the minimum wage hike experiments were successful because chud think tanks and poo poo libs are still refusing to leave the realm of abstracts, because after all, more people having more money to spend increasing the velocity of money being a unambiguous good for the economy is Marxism "gently caress paying dockworkers what i make! How will i feel superior now??"
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Jul 25, 2019 17:30
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Epic High Five posted:just in awe of how well that red text has aged I know, right? It's a drat shame we cannot find out who buys avatars for others, cause that person should be pointed at and laughed at.
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Jul 25, 2019 17:31
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cenotaph posted:It's time to admit that Mitch McConnell is an extraordinarily talented politician. still less successful than Bin Laden
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Jul 25, 2019 17:33
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Samovar posted:I know, right? It's a drat shame we cannot find out who buys avatars for others, cause that person should be pointed at and laughed at. just incredible, imagine being so stupid as to not only believe a single word the CPD would say in any circumstances ever, much less a hate crime against a black gay man, and then deciding you're so right that you're going to spend money to brag about it anonymously of course, chuds after all do not have the spine to stand by their convictions
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Jul 25, 2019 17:35
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is there more news about smollet? i thought it was mired in inconclusive evidence and general police incompetence.
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Jul 25, 2019 17:35
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:is there more news about smollet? i thought it was mired in inconclusive evidence and general police incompetence. they keep dumping stuff hoping something will magically prove one of the 27 different timelines they claimed were 100% right they know nothing will happen to them in any case so they're just gonna keep dragging it out, presumably to punish him instead through lawyer's fees
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Jul 25, 2019 17:36
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FMguru posted:There's also the same thing you see in people opposed to raising the minimum wage. Getting good (or even "good") health insurance in America is an accomplishment, and if everyone has access to good health care, well that rather diminishes the value of what I did to land a job that offers good insurance, the same way people get really mad at the thought of janitors and bus drivers and food service workers closing the wage gap with them, despite not affecting them or costing them a nickel. One of the greatest inequities that I see in health insurance is that larger companies get a better rate than smaller ones, just based on bargaining power. I work for a company with about 30 people, and our coverage is laughable with higher co-pays compared to my friends at big multi-nationals. I turned Socialist the day I learned that my boss isn't even taking the company insurance; he uses his wife's coverage from JP Morgan Chase. 
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Jul 25, 2019 17:47
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pseudanonymous posted:No... they don't? I live in Seattle, I've read several of the studies. Also, I was affected by the minimum wage increase. Overall a very good thing, but with some costs. look, if you don't want to fire rocket-propelled grenades at Amazon's brand new orbs, then I don't know what to say guillotine, perhaps?
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Jul 25, 2019 18:39
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nah posted:props to McConnell for having figured out how to play the game way better than virtually everyone else cenotaph posted:It's time to admit that Mitch McConnell is an extraordinarily talented politician. you really gotta hand it to him
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Jul 25, 2019 18:57
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Epic High Five posted:still less successful than Bin Laden depends on whether you measure success in Americans killed or nations destabilized
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Jul 25, 2019 18:59
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i don't know if anyone else has had this experience, but it's absolutely insane how american evangelicalism has become a blatant death-cult. my boomer parents both firmly believe that trump is a good and righteous man because he's the only politician willing to usher in the rapture by ensuring that all the apocalyptic prophesies about isreal come true. they'll openly tell you there's good jews (orthodox of course) and bad jews (every other denomination) and that trump is allied with netanyahu because he's a good jew and only by supporting him is there any chance of the biblical rapture happening. they're not shy at all about the theoretical loss of life that is explicit in the terms of the rapture; their attitude is "well everybody has had their chance to believe in the good word and accept jesus as their savior and if they have decided not to do that, it's no skin off my back. they made their choices and i'll be going to heaven when i die so what do i care". anyway a lot of other evangelicals in their age cohort seems to agree with this general interpretation of values and it basically means there's a non-trivial amount of voters that are voting for trump explicitly because they expect he's going to kill a whole lot of people and in so doing trigger the rapture. like, there's "trump voters realizing they're going to die under trump" but i feel like "trump voters explicitly voting for trump because they expect to die under him" is just next level insanity.
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Jul 25, 2019 20:21
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why would you talk to coal miners they aren’t going to live
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Jul 25, 2019 20:22
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Freaking Crumbum posted:i don't know if anyone else has had this experience, but it's absolutely insane how american evangelicalism has become a blatant death-cult. Welcome to Evangelical Christianity. or as it should be known Radical Christian Extremists.
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Jul 25, 2019 20:23
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euphronius posted:why would you talk to coal miners reminder that it doesn't matter if trump actually helps coal miners/farmers/small business owners because all these groups make up such a small number of his supporters. all that matters is ~the narrative~ that he's helping them, which COULD be easily wrested away from him except the best the opposition has to offer is "learn to code"
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Jul 25, 2019 20:38
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pseudanonymous posted:No... they don't? I live in Seattle, I've read several of the studies. Also, I was affected by the minimum wage increase. Overall a very good thing, but with some costs. what costs because everything i've seen that's not conservative business rags talks about how the dire warnings of mass firings and hourly cutbacks and skyrocketing food prices never actually came to pass
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Jul 25, 2019 20:45
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:what costs ur not allowed to talk about how the nay-saying conservative mouthpieces were wrong about everything, only about how this time they're certainly right
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Jul 25, 2019 20:46
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