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Europeans blaming their evil and incompetence on America is always fun to watch. Obviously they wouldn't be doing exactly the same thing they've been doing for 700 years if it wasn't for Trump.
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Jul 29, 2019 19:41
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*endless march of conservative and neo-liberal prime ministers walks past since 1980* *half of country votes to blow economy's brains out partly out of empire nostalgia* Bloody hell, must be the Yanks what keep getting us into these messes innit.
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Jul 29, 2019 20:46
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https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump...ingawful.com%2F
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Jul 29, 2019 21:47
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Europeans blaming their evil and incompetence on America is always fun to watch. Grape posted:*endless march of conservative and neo-liberal prime ministers walks past since 1980* It's remarkably easy to win discussions by blankly ignoring anything anyone says to you, isn't it?
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Jul 29, 2019 21:55
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Often Abbreviated posted:It's remarkably easy to win discussions by blankly ignoring anything anyone says to you, isn't it? You keep talking about capability as if that's the discussion and not culpability. Ironicat and so forth. Grape fucked around with this message at 22:10 on Jul 29, 2019 |
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Jul 29, 2019 22:07
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It's rather difficult to be culpable for something you're not capable of. If you're only interested in this so that you can blame someone other than the U.S for once then go back to not caring, go crazy. But it's fair for me to tell you you haven't got the faintest idea what's actually happening, where the real culpability lies, or why.
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Jul 29, 2019 22:14
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Often Abbreviated posted:It's rather difficult to be culpable for something you're not capable of. If you're only interested in this so that you can blame someone other than the U.S for once then go back to not caring, go crazy. But it's fair for me to tell you you haven't got the faintest idea what's actually happening, where the real culpability lies, or why. The culpability lies with both our leaders, and both our conservative populations in particular have nice big appetites for military action, and I'm pretty sure the other big Euro countries are laughing when you act like you have no choice for some reason. The interest is in this hilarious dance of removing yourself from shared blame and pretending the rot doesn't exist at home. Hey quick question, when I say you have and still fully control and operate Middle Eastern bases (plural), that are permanent and cannot be gotten rid of by the locals due to it being embedded in their constitution you negotiated with them? That you alone own and operate, and have used for military operations recently? And your use of it caused the locals to have Syrian jets fly over their heads at night? When I talk about this do you even know what I'm talking about? Why, only Americans would care about hypocritical blame shifting Brits surely.
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Jul 29, 2019 22:26
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haha... wot??
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Jul 29, 2019 22:28
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Grape posted:The culpability lies with both our leaders, and both our conservative populations in particular have nice big appetites for military action, and I'm pretty sure the other big Euro countries are laughing when you act like you have no choice for some reason. You and Rent-A-Cop are the only people shifting blame, and engaging in a truly heroic amount of projection regarding what any British posters have been telling you. We've been quite happy to underline we're the lovely, snivelling toady to America's hulking bully and I haven't seen anyone dodge any accountability on that mark. The point you seem desperate to ignore is that whatever else we might theoretically be doing if we weren't relegated to America's casus-belli on a string, it wouldn't be loving with Iran because there's absolutely nothing we can gain by it. It's totally an American gambit and transparently so, because we're in lock-step with American foreign policy and have been since the end of the empire. Here's a question for you, you know what a lot of those hideous, colonial airbases around the world flying the Union Jack mainly do? Act as staging ground for the CIA to kidnap, torture and otherwise ship people to U.S black sites. When I talk about this do you even know what I'm talking about?
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Jul 29, 2019 22:43
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they won Iraq, Syria and their proxies won Lebanon and are winning in Yemen.
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Jul 29, 2019 23:11
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They basically invented modern insurgency techniques, or more precisely, learned from the legacies of past insurgencies and then brought them into maturity and disseminated them to considerable success. That said Iranian diplomacy is extremely skilled and nuanced and has been extremely ahead of its time for a very long time.
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Jul 30, 2019 00:24
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Al-Saqr posted:they won Iraq, Syria and their proxies won Lebanon and are winning in Yemen. Allies, not proxies.
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Jul 30, 2019 01:18
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Hezbollah was created by Iran.
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Jul 30, 2019 01:21
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Haystack posted:Allies, not proxies. whatever dude you get what I mean.
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Jul 30, 2019 01:29
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Grape posted:Hey quick question, when I say you have and still fully control and operate Middle Eastern bases (plural), that are permanent and cannot be gotten rid of by the locals due to it being embedded in their constitution you negotiated with them? That you alone own and operate, and have used for military operations recently? And your use of it caused the locals to have Syrian jets fly over their heads at night? If you're talking about Cyprus, Syrian jets absolutely have not flown over their heads, and the anti-air missile that landed there was fired at an Israeli plane. As far the actual argument about Iran, it's possible to acknowledge that the UK generally falls in line with American foreign policy, and one way or another seems to have done so here, while still believing they're stupid and wrong for doing so. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Jul 30, 2019 |
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Jul 30, 2019 03:05
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Hey it's possible that the UK did not seize that ship at the behest of Washington. It might have been at the behest of Riyadh or Tel-Aviv instead.
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Jul 30, 2019 09:59
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I think it's likely donny smooth - brain meant that the other way around.... never lost a war but never won a negotiation... donny being the great negotiator and all definitely makes me think this. That seems odd though in a way we haven't yet seen from king dorrito.
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Jul 30, 2019 11:45
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Often Abbreviated posted:You and Rent-A-Cop are the only people shifting blame, and engaging in a truly heroic amount of projection regarding what any British posters have been telling you. We've been quite happy to underline we're the lovely, snivelling toady to America's hulking bully and I haven't seen anyone dodge any accountability on that mark. The point you seem desperate to ignore is that whatever else we might theoretically be doing if we weren't relegated to America's casus-belli on a string, it wouldn't be loving with Iran because there's absolutely nothing we can gain by it. It's totally an American gambit and transparently so, because we're in lock-step with American foreign policy and have been since the end of the empire.
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Jul 30, 2019 12:13
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Rent-A-Cop posted:The sun never sets on British insecurities.
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Jul 30, 2019 12:49
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Cable Guy posted:I think it's likely donny smooth - brain meant that the other way around.... never lost a war but never won a negotiation... donny being the great negotiator and all definitely makes me think this. That seems odd though in a way we haven't yet seen from king dorrito. He means that brute force is the only way to deal with the wily Oriental who knows nothing of honour, and also Obama shamed America by accepting the nuclear deal.
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Jul 30, 2019 13:44
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Al-Saqr posted:they won Iraq, Syria and their proxies won Lebanon and are winning in Yemen. They're getting tired of all this winning.
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Jul 30, 2019 14:40
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Rent-A-Cop posted:The sun never sets on British insecurities. I see the standard of discussion has relaxed somewhat in D&D. In that case allow me to respond in kind: 
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Jul 30, 2019 14:42
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Often Abbreviated posted:I see the standard of discussion has relaxed somewhat in D&D. In that case allow me to respond in kind: Which one are you, Balfour or Sykes?
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Jul 30, 2019 14:46
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Volkerball posted:Hezbollah was created by Iran. Is this supposed to be some type of insult lol?
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Jul 30, 2019 16:11
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Flayer posted:Or boring jingoistic Americans with nothing of any substance to say, apparently. It's telling that you literally can't hear the criticism, and are just hearing (somehow) someone else rah rahing their country. Anyway here's your substance βγείτε από το νησί. 
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Jul 30, 2019 17:00
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Grape posted:It's telling that you literally can't hear the criticism, and are just hearing (somehow) someone else rah rahing their country.
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Jul 30, 2019 17:43
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It hardly matters given they still receive the benefits of being part of the imperial core. Australia's even more of an oafish lapdog of the yanks, but we're just as culpable as the Yanks for following them into every single one of their wars.
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Jul 30, 2019 18:11
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:It hardly matters given they still receive the benefits of being part of the imperial core. Australia's even more of an oafish lapdog of the yanks, but we're just as culpable as the Yanks for following them into every single one of their wars. See this guy gets it, it ain't rocket science!
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Jul 30, 2019 18:15
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The most   of Iran newshttps://www.iranhumanrights.org/2019/07/iranian-heavy-metal-band-members-escape-to-norway-after-receiving-prison-sentences/  quote:Nikan Khosravi and Arash Ilkhani, members of the Iranian heavy metal band Confess, have left Iran to escape prosecution and prison for their art. tl;dr: Iranian justice system is poo poo, heavy metal is awesome
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Jul 30, 2019 21:04
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Nenonen posted:tl;dr: Iranian justice system is poo poo, heavy metal is awesome Props to Norway for having a heavy metal asylum program though.
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Jul 30, 2019 21:11
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FYI evin prison is a really, really bad place to be.
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Jul 30, 2019 22:20
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Nenonen posted:The most gently caress yeah, gonna follow these guys for sure. Metal is the loving best.
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Jul 31, 2019 11:54
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WoodrowSkillson posted:gently caress yeah, gonna follow these guys for sure. Metal is the loving best. Sure but what if they are Ayn Rand in metal form? What values do they have and how many bat heads can they bite off in one go?
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Jul 31, 2019 12:11
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Props to Norway for having a heavy metal asylum program though. I wish Finland was like that. Seriously we're not pulling our weight compared to Norway or especially Sweden wrt quota refugees. Though the new gov is supposed to increase the quota, but not quite enough... AND Finland has the most metal bands per population, so this is helping the Norwegians catch up 
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Jul 31, 2019 15:47
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taking a decent number of quota refugees is sort of our indulgence for basically shutting everyone off from arriving any other way. asylum rules in norway have been sharply reined in, and the added emphasis on quotas is how everyone from labour and to the right have gotten their non-racist members to agree to it
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Jul 31, 2019 15:54
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Sanctioning the people responsible for diplomacy is unbelievably stupid unless all you really want is war. Trump doesn't, but many around him do, so his administration does stupid poo poo all the time. https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1156660866273746945 https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/1156663302547804161
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Jul 31, 2019 22:24
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News: https://twitter.com/NotWoofers/status/1156181946738913281 quote:The MMC has been good about publicizing how involved the Americans have been with working to keep things from escalating. About 45 minutes ago they released an image of what appears to be an Apache gunship patrolling along the Sagur line [north of Manbij] This is a fascinating long-form article about the massive decimation of manpower in the SAA and the various militias allied with the regime, infighting and disputes between regime militas, and how various units in the SAA have been restructured/reorganized, sometimes even with former rebels filling the ranks: https://www.mei.edu/publications/lion-and-eagle-syrian-arab-armys-destruction-and-rebirth quote:The rest of the report is based almost entirely on publicly available Facebook posts from the personal profiles of SAA commanders and fighters and from Facebook pages dedicated to posting media about specific Republican Guard groups. To begin, the author searched in Arabic for posts regarding SAA divisions, brigades, regiments, and battalions known to him, followed by information on other units discussed in English-language media. Throughout this process, further SAA units were identified. Example of former rebels being recruited into the SAA's ranks: quote:Emphasis is also being placed on replenishing the SAA’s depleted ranks. According to one source, an SAA division today contains around 11,000 men total, including reservists and civilian employees.68 The 18th Division has only 4,000 men (active duty, reservist, and civilian), while the 1st Division likely has more than 11,000. Attempts to integrate loyalist militias have already been discussed, but the regime has also tried to pressure reconciled rebels and civilians in formerly opposition-held locales to join. Since 2017, but with a renewed push in the second half of 2018, reconciled rebels have been heavily recruited into the 7th, 9th and 10th Divisions as well as the 5th Corps. Other contingents of former rebels have been incorporated into the 8th Division (from Dara’a), and the 1st Division’s 61st Brigade (from Douma) and 171st Brigade (from Rastan). Initially, the 4th Division was meant to replenish its ranks with former rebels from Dara’a and al-Quneitra, however, following “internal disputes,” the division backed out and now many former rebels from these areas have joined the 105th Brigade of the Republican Guard. quote:"Eight years of civil war appear to have convinced the regime that the biggest potential challenge to its survival is not a conventional war with Israel, but internal threats. Thus, the SAA is being rebuilt as a largely motorized infantry army, one that is able to quickly deploy loyal soldiers to areas of insurgency or unrest across the country." Saladin Rising fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Aug 1, 2019 |
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Jul 31, 2019 23:28
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Saladin Rising posted:News: This was a good read. I'm not surprised at the increasing quantity of ex-rebels in the government forces. I remember one of the most common complaints of reconciled rebels was that they were being pressured into enlisting or at least completing their mandatory period of military service. The moral in those units can't be very good. It's hard to imagine what Syria is going to look like in the coming decade. The government has resolved none of the issues that started the war in the first place, and the war has only intensified the divisions between Syria's ethnic groups. Syria can't just continue on a war economy forever. I wonder, are there any plans to pullback on western sanctions? There's not much prospect of them encouraging regime change in the immediate future. There's no focus in the policy of western nations, or seemingly any end goal in mind. American policy appears to simply be running on autopilot.
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Aug 1, 2019 00:17
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Squalid posted:This was a good read. I'm not surprised at the increasing quantity of ex-rebels in the government forces. I remember one of the most common complaints of reconciled rebels was that they were being pressured into enlisting or at least completing their mandatory period of military service. The moral in those units can't be very good. Seriously, it's weird realizing that there hasn't been any real top-down direction on the US's Syria policy for years now, and that we've been coasting on a combination of inertia, a revolving door of appointed officials (a lot of whom aren't even around anymore eg James Mattis and Brett McGurk), the best guess of the Pentagon's higher ups, the few things congress can agree on (sanctions on Turkey for buying the S-400 system), dumb poo poo that Trump says (we're ripping up the Iranian nuclear deal), and dumb poo poo that Trump says that gets mostly ignored (we're completely withdrawing from Syria). As for sanctions specially I'd say those are likely to stay regardless of a new Administration in 2021, simply because there's honestly not any real reason to pull back sanctions on Syria. Assad is still the dictator for life of the burning husk that used to be Syria, he still gassed his own people, he still has a "gently caress the US" attitude, and he's still backed by Russia and Iran. The neocon Republicans loving despise Iran (as do quite a few Democrats), and a whole bunch of Democrats hate Russia/Putin for all the election interference and other poo poo that Russia's been up to like Crimea and eastern Ukraine (as do some Republicans). So yeah, not a whole lot of love there.
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Aug 1, 2019 02:41
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Saladin Rising posted:As for sanctions specially I'd say those are likely to stay regardless of a new Administration in 2021, simply because there's honestly not any real reason to pull back sanctions on Syria. Assad is still the dictator for life of the burning husk that used to be Syria, he still gassed his own people, he still has a "gently caress the US" attitude, and he's still backed by Russia and Iran. The neocon Republicans loving despise Iran (as do quite a few Democrats), and a whole bunch of Democrats hate Russia/Putin for all the election interference and other poo poo that Russia's been up to like Crimea and eastern Ukraine (as do some Republicans). So yeah, not a whole lot of love there. I mean yeah they probably will stick around for a while. But as for reasons to do it? Sanctions definitely make the lives of average Syrians harder, probably even the lives of those in Rojava and even in Idlib. By strangling the Syrian economy they kill people make no mistake. Now of course, they were put in place to punish the Assad government for doing a lot of bad poo poo. However if (hypothetically speaking) the war ends, will it make sense to continue them? I would argue no. Removing them wouldn't be about rewarding Assad, just about supporting a return to some kind of normal economy. That's not for the sake of the government, simply for everyone who is stuck under it. Of course the war is not over and is still raging in Idlib, and the government's latest campaign there seems to have gone no where. Turkey scaled up support for the rebels in response to the offensive, while Iran, Hezbollah and Russia have not committed substantial assistance to these operations. It doesn't seem like Assad will be be ruling over a united Syria anytime soon. So long as America's involved they won't be moving East either. How long can Syria just persist in this divided state I wonder, with all sides waiting to pounce on the others?
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Aug 1, 2019 02:58
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