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Brawnfire posted:I think Guinan is my favorite part of TNG. No matter what Whoopi does or says for good or for bad, I will always remember and love her as Guinan. Pure, good, mysterious, writers-had-no-idea-what-her-deal-actually-is, Guinan. I can imagine Guinan saying something exactly like that.
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Aug 5, 2019 03:40
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Nothing against Marina Sirtis, but once Guinan appears on the show Troi becomes completely superfluous. Whoopi’s just so much better at playing that kind of gentle goading conscience for the other characters. Guinan owns.
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Aug 5, 2019 03:47
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Nothing against Marina Sirtis, but once Guinan appears on the show Troi becomes completely superfluous. Whoopi’s just so much better at playing that kind of gentle goading conscience for the other characters. Guinan owns. Troi was really poorly written. In addition to her empathic ability, she also went to school for psychology. Which apparently was completely useless because she was unable to do her job without being able to sense someone's feelings.
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Aug 5, 2019 05:10
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It's definitely not Marina Sirtis' fault Troi was a potted plant. When they actually give her something to do she's good. The episode where she goes Romulan for example.
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Aug 5, 2019 05:15
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She was pretty decent in her Voyager appearances as well.
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Aug 5, 2019 06:14
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On the rare occasions when Troi gets to be something different from MY MIIIIND and hot fudge sundae enjoyer, she's great. Did Gene take these?
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Aug 5, 2019 07:06
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Oh poo poo I loved Action League Now
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Aug 5, 2019 09:00
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Hey remember when Marina Sirtis voiced Liara's big boobied mom in Mass Effect? That was bad
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Aug 5, 2019 09:03
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I just assumed that Guinan's deal was that she was a very powerful being posing as an El-Aurian. It lets her be a match for Q while also letting her people get turned into refugees by the Borg. Also I seem to remember that later on in TNG scripts were written with 'Guinan/Troi' and Troi was literally the backup to say those lines if Whoopi wasn't available to play Guinan
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Aug 5, 2019 10:31
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I assumed Guinan was way more powerful than your average El-Aurian, and that when you live that long some people tend to pick up a few extra tricks.
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Aug 5, 2019 10:33
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She did nothing to demonstrate any kind of power. She just made a silly karate pose at Q. The only other demonstration of any kind of power was a vague awareness the timeline was messed up
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Aug 5, 2019 10:40
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Apparently Star Trek Lower Decks takes place on the U.S.S. Cerritos, a "second contact" ship.
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Aug 5, 2019 11:23
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That's kind of funny
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Aug 5, 2019 12:34
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The book My Year of Rest and Relaxation has a main character who is a bit obsessed with Whoopi Goldberg. She has an aside where she talks about how she finds Guinan to be this sort of cosmic joke to Next Gen because Goldberg is so much more well known an actor than the rest of the cast. She kind of takes apart the illusion of it all. I don't agree with it, but it was kinda funny in the context of the book.
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Aug 5, 2019 14:08
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There kind of is an element of "Well time for TV's Willy Frakes to go chat with EGOT winner"
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Aug 5, 2019 14:28
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:She did nothing to demonstrate any kind of power. She just made a silly karate pose at Q. The only other demonstration of any kind of power was a vague awareness the timeline was messed up The person who doesn't need to use their power is often the one who wields the most. Guinan is mysterious, and I like to imagine that's part of what makes her scary to Q. She's so mysterious that even he doesn't know all of her deal. For someone who bases all his interactions with lower races on demonstrating his greater knowledge what could be more confronting than someone who doesn't let him do that.
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Aug 5, 2019 14:45
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Q implied that humanity et al would eventually evolve into something like the Q Guinan's species is probably just a bit closer and her ability to know when the timeline changed is a hint at that. I always assumed her Q-Fu pose was a defensive posture and that her people can resist being changed by Q, and the fact that they have even minor resistance to Q doing Q poo poo makes Q very uncomfortable in a way he would never admit
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Aug 5, 2019 14:51
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The Bloop posted:Q implied that humanity et al would eventually evolve into something like the Q Unfortunately that scene is not really followed up on again.
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Aug 5, 2019 15:09
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Here's some fanwank: The subset of El Aurians that were exposed to the Ribbon have some degree of immunity to the Q because the ribbon intersects with the Q continuum, and having been in and out of it has immunized them in a way. Picard would now have similar abilities. Janeway no, because she was taken directly by a Q exercising their own precautions.
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Aug 5, 2019 15:18
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Wasn't there some dumb comic or something where there was a risk of them assimilating a Q? I believe it was in one of the post-Voyager or TNG books. The Borg have a Q on the ship and they're apparently analysing the invisible magic
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Aug 5, 2019 15:24
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:Here's some fanwank: The subset of El Aurians that were exposed to the Ribbon have some degree of immunity to the Q because the ribbon intersects with the Q continuum, and having been in and out of it has immunized them in a way. Picard would now have similar abilities. 
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Aug 5, 2019 15:53
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I always thought it had something to do with her being in the Nexus, yeah. She spent so much time in there that she's been
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Aug 5, 2019 16:01
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womb with a view posted:Hey remember when Marina Sirtis voiced Liara's big boobied mom in Mass Effect? That was bad It was good, actually
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Aug 5, 2019 16:14
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I always figured the thing between Guinan and Q was just something they put in to make her seem mysterious, but then didnt really care enough about to actually synchronize DeLancie's and Goldberg's guest appearances to pursue.
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Aug 5, 2019 16:19
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Everything doesn’t need to be tediously explained. They were right not to follow that up. the unexplored fact that Guinan knows and hates Q and can at least threaten him if not actually harm him is way more interesting than any demystification of it could be. It engages the audience because it points to the scope of the story without packaging it all up in a little box. Just look at how lovely DS9’s battles between magic aliens were and you’ll have a sense of why I’m glad they didn’t elaborate this into the Great Q-El Aurian Wars of 1964 or whatever the gently caress.
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Aug 5, 2019 16:30
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I like to think Guinan can't do anything to Q besides outsmart him using good old normal linear, non-omnipotent outside the box thinking, and that's what terrifies the poo poo out of him more than anything. You know, basically how Superman keeps defeating Mxyzptlk. I bet she'd confuse the poo poo out of the Prophets, too.
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Aug 5, 2019 16:37
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skasion posted:Everything doesn’t need to be tediously explained. They were right not to follow that up. the unexplored fact that Guinan knows and hates Q and can at least threaten him if not actually harm him is way more interesting than any demystification of it could be. This a thousand times! It's way more fun to speculate than to see some damp take from the Trek writing room
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Aug 5, 2019 16:41
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I just finished Voyager. What a limp ending. Sure it's nice to see them get home and it was handled well enough, but can I at least see literally ANYTHING after the initial arrival? gently caress, they could have done another "Postgame" episode dealing with just that. Kim meeting back up with Libby, Janeway meeting back up with Mark, Seven of Nine and the Doctor against the various prejudices that a former Borg drone and a hologram everyone hates would bring. It feels like the entire episode's focus was "how do they get home" and then "oh hey we're home roll credits no we don't get to set foot on earth or even see it onscreen just trust that we're here" Blugh. At least I get Seven in Picard.
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Aug 5, 2019 17:21
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curiousTerminal posted:I just finished Voyager. What a limp ending. Sure it's nice to see them get home and it was handled well enough, but can I at least see literally ANYTHING after the initial arrival? gently caress, they could have done another "Postgame" episode dealing with just that. Kim meeting back up with Libby, Janeway meeting back up with Mark, Seven of Nine and the Doctor against the various prejudices that a former Borg drone and a hologram everyone hates would bring. It feels like the entire episode's focus was "how do they get home" and then "oh hey we're home roll credits no we don't get to set foot on earth or even see it onscreen just trust that we're here"
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Aug 5, 2019 17:28
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curiousTerminal posted:I just finished Voyager. What a limp ending. Sure it's nice to see them get home and it was handled well enough, but can I at least see literally ANYTHING after the initial arrival? gently caress, they could have done another "Postgame" episode dealing with just that. Kim meeting back up with Libby, Janeway meeting back up with Mark, Seven of Nine and the Doctor against the various prejudices that a former Borg drone and a hologram everyone hates would bring. It feels like the entire episode's focus was "how do they get home" and then "oh hey we're home roll credits no we don't get to set foot on earth or even see it onscreen just trust that we're here" It tries really hard to be All Good Things without realizing that the wink-and-nod future stuff needs to be balanced with the present. They spend more time showing you this supposedly awful future for the characters that the actual present becomes an afterthought in their own finale. And then when you finally do focus on the “real” crew they’re just handed a solution to their problems in the most anticlimactic way. It’s written as if the writers were told a week prior that the show was ending and rushed to come up with an easy fix to get them home. It’s so lazy.
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Aug 5, 2019 17:28
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Starting the Voyager finale with them already having gotten home has become my go-to example of how subverting the audience's expectations TM is not automatically a good thing. Sometimes you just gotta give the people what they want, even if you throw in a few twists along the way.
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Aug 5, 2019 17:51
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Big Mean Jerk posted:It tries really hard to be All Good Things without realizing that the wink-and-nod future stuff needs to be balanced with the present. They spend more time showing you this supposedly awful future for the characters that the actual present becomes an afterthought in their own finale. And then when you finally do focus on the “real” crew they’re just handed a solution to their problems in the most anticlimactic way. It’s written as if the writers were told a week prior that the show was ending and rushed to come up with an easy fix to get them home. It’s so lazy. The also seemed to forget that it was their last season, so plot threads were left hanging like old men's balls, swinging in the wind. They spent one of their last few episodes, Natural Law, with the kind of filler you'd expect in season 1. One of the older Trek threads summaried Voyager as 7 years of wasted potential that "ended with a slap in the face." Sadly still true 18 years after it ended. gently caress me, I feel so old. With the balls to prove it.
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Aug 5, 2019 17:52
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Epicurius posted:I always figured the thing between Guinan and Q was just something they put in to make her seem mysterious, but then didnt really care enough about to actually synchronize DeLancie's and Goldberg's guest appearances to pursue. But boy was it great that they got her for Deja Q: GUINAN: I hear they drummed you out of the Continuum. Q: I like to think of it as a significant career change. GUINAN: Just one of the boys, ay? Q: One of the boys with an IQ of two thousand and five. DATA: The Captain and many of the crew are not yet convinced he is truly human. GUINAN: Really?  
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Aug 5, 2019 20:10
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Deja Q is so good  Q: Q the miserable! Q the desperate! What must I do to convince you people? Worf: Die.  Q: Oh, very clever, Worf. Eat any good books lately?
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Aug 5, 2019 20:17
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My favourite part of Voyager's finale was how Neelix was in it for like, 15 seconds because he decided to gently caress off the week before to some asteroid filled with Talaxians that somehow showed up 40 years away from their home planet.
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Aug 5, 2019 20:27
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I hated how Voyager handled the getting home part of the show so much. Early on every other episode has some crackpot way of getting home that never works because that would break the entire premise. You know that going in, so there's no tension. Then when they finally do get home, they end it without showing any postscripts for resolution. The beginning kills off half the crew, but who cares because you don't get to know them anyways.
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Aug 5, 2019 20:28
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Voyager is like Gilligan's Island with subspace coconuts
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Aug 5, 2019 21:19
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The Bloop posted:Voyager is like Gilligan's Island with subspace coconuts Star Trek: Gilligan's Island With Subspace Coconuts
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Aug 5, 2019 21:25
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skasion posted:Everything doesn’t need to be tediously explained. They were right not to follow that up 100% agree on the point that they didn't need to explain it at all. I am disappointed, though, that they didn't use this idea at all again beyond that one appearance. It just seemed like yet another dangling setup for a plot they never took anywhere, like Sela's introduction or Beverly and Picard's sort-of romance.
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Aug 5, 2019 21:28
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Nullsmack posted:I hated how Voyager handled the getting home part of the show so much. Early on every other episode has some crackpot way of getting home that never works because that would break the entire premise. You know that going in, so there's no tension. Then when they finally do get home, they end it without showing any postscripts for resolution. The beginning kills off half the crew, but who cares because you don't get to know them anyways. As much as I otherwise dislike the Seska character I did like her "villain speech:" quote:I did it for you. I did it for this crew. We are alone here, at the mercy of any number of hostile aliens, because of the incomprehensible decision of a Federation captain. A Federation captain who destroyed our only chance to get home. Federation rules. Federation nobility. Federation compassion? Do you understand, if this had been a Cardassian ship, we would be home now.
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Aug 5, 2019 21:34
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