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Archonex posted:It's interesting that you say i'm trying to salvage it when i'm pointing out that it's general mechanics and the level of power of Beast's presented don't loving fit in with the CofD at all and are more similar to something you'd have expected to see in Exalted if it had been managed better. Read my posts instead of making assumptions, dude. Why does it matter that it's power level doesn't fit with the CofD? As evidenced Beast doesn't fit with the CofD. What meaning, if any, comes from it having a power level on par with Exalted. Like I seriously do not understand what point you are trying to make other than "I want to port this guy into Exalted" which, as mentioned, is a bad point. If the point you're making is "Conquering heroes is a badly designed book" No poo poo!, I could point you at the half-dozen Esurients that inflict tilts that don't exist, or the fact that rules as written a newly created insatiable does not mechanically function because they are "treated as if they have undergone the merger", which requires Lair Dots, Which an insatiable does not have unless they steal them from a beast, which they lose incredibly fast unless they are killing enough people to make a Slasher nauseous.
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Aug 6, 2019 06:21
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Was the first WtF Night Horror book only about the Pure, or did it go into the Azlu and Beshilu too? I'm digging the new hosts in the book but would love a more detailed write up on the rats and spiders than we get in WtF core.
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Aug 6, 2019 06:25
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Archonex posted:A lot of those things can potentially be pretty nasty in a fight though. Certainly a lot of the more fleshed out ones don't fill that gap between "Mortal hero empowered by essence" and "demon that can punch a building in half.". well yeah, because the game is centered around stuff that's interesting/threatening to individuals who exist to kung-fu offensive aspects of reality into oblivion foes like you're describing definitely exist in the Exalted setting, they're just nasty low-essence Rakshas/sprits/demons/ghosts/god blooded/etc. who could maybe terrorize mortals in an isolated region for a while (or slightly higher essence beings that just happen to be bad at directly throwing down) its just not that interesting from a gameplay perspective because it's yet one more divine extortion racket/spiritual parasite that can and likely will be splattered/beaten into compliance by the first Exalt/God Blooded/Spirit Court/whatever that happens to be in the region and take offense in a campaign such a foe might be good for a single mystery adventure where you work to find out what ails a hamlet (before quickly dispatching it), and that is emphatically NOT the stuff splat books are made of - maybe a subsection of a supplement of appropriately low power foes for heroic mortals, but if you want to run that particular sort of adventure/campaign you can probably figure it out yourself e: I'm not even sure what your point is - Exalted has a LOT of abusive monsters that work to stay under the radar to avoid kung-fu retribution, that this mode of behavior applies to creatures that are still quite powerful by mortal standards and that heroic mortals are somewhat undersupported (because they're not a major focus of the line) hardly suggests that Beast-analogues are particularly novel/interesting in the Exalted context, or that it's a good venue to try to rehabilitate Beast conceptually LGD fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Aug 6, 2019 |
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Aug 6, 2019 06:27
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Kurieg posted:What other assumption was I supposed to make, dude? You're still not getting what I mean, but whatever. You do you, man.
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Aug 6, 2019 06:29
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I Am Just a Box posted:Yeah, but occasionally one of the writers drops a behind-the-scenes reference to what was going on in the internal pitch stage (see also: Geist began conceptually, at least in part, as a game about being angel-possessed), and I think I recall a comment about the Beast pitch having been a Dragon pitch that got expanded later. The pitch stage would have happened before it was ever even announced. Yes, this. McFarland first pitched a Dragon game, with varying sorts of “hoard”. That the game changed from initial spark is not unusual - Mage and Geist did, too, and those are just the two I know about. Deviant didn’t so much change as go through five months of me realising “and *this* fits. and *this* fits, and *this* fits, too”.
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Aug 6, 2019 06:34
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Archonex posted:You're still not getting what I mean, but whatever. You do you, man. Archonex posted:It's interesting that you say i'm trying to salvage it when i'm pointing out that it's general mechanics and the level of power of Beast's are presented as having don't loving fit in with the CofD at all and are more similar to something you'd have expected to see in Exalted if it had been managed better. Read my posts instead of making assumptions about what it is I really mean, dude. Archonex posted:I still stand by the statement I made back when people were posting about Sneksy that the game would actually be pretty great as an Exalted sub-splat if it dropped the whole "Well, actually, abuse is pretty great really!" poo poo entirely. Or at least limited it to a "Okay, well, here's a case of this entity unabashedly using their powers in a way that marks them out as an unrepentant monster." thing that some of the other splats do to contrast an attempt at the humanist focus in the rest of the supernatural lines. If this isn't what you mean than you're right, I'm not getting it. And it's because you're doing a poo poo job explaining it.
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Aug 6, 2019 06:40
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Kurieg posted:If this isn't what you mean than you're right, I'm not getting it. And it's because you're doing a poo poo job explaining it. My point's kinda manifold in that i'm trying to explain why the more i've read about Beast the more I feel that even when you exclude the abuse apologia and all the other poo poo it has wrong with it Beast feels way the gently caress out of place compared to the rest of the CofD. The problem I guess i'm having is that there's so much that feels off in tone and practical mechanics that it's hard to put it all into words, I guess? Let me see if I can get through one or two of the many things i've noticed that just feels wildly out of place. It's getting late here so I gotta crash soon, so hopefully the post won't be mauled too badly and I can go into what I mean a bit more in depth. It's gonna be  as heck though, so fair warning.There's a good example of what i'm trying to put into words in that Player's Guide book for Beast. From what I recall, in the Player's Guide the world that a Beast's lair resides in gets a fairly huge write-up. Especially given the size of the book. Said area is literally two separate "worlds" that had might as well be their own reality. One is basically Spooky Earth. I'm not even making GBS threads you. It's basically Earth if it was abandoned and sterile, getting weirder as you continue past it to go deeper into the home of the Beast's. Eventually, you reach what the book implies is either the Dark Mother or where she resides. It even has it's own eco-system and hierarchy given the fact that it's literally the place where the monstrous aspects of Beast's are incubated in a larval form. Of course, reading the write up of this alternate reality that is connected to the main reality that everyone else in the setting lives in inevitably begs the question: Who the gently caress goes to explore this world outside of a Beast? And the answer is pretty much no one. Because outside of high concept ideas from your resident storyteller/GM/whatever that's not really the focus of the CofD. It's much more local and street level focused. Even the Shadow and Underworld are more accessible than this place. Outside of the occasional high tier mage antics and a few other esoterically interested character concepts in the other splats it's basically a dead zone for actual real playability within the dictated confines of the setting. Meanwhile, take Exalted as a contrast to this. Exalted is a game where reality hopping shenanigans by rear end in a top hat monsters are explicitly part of the problems afflicting the setting. It's literally one of the core conflicts, what with two or three separate areas of reality (The Underworld, Malfeas/Hell, The Wyld.) all squaring up to see if they can't take over or destroy the rest of reality. And it's assumed that any long term game wanting to get into one of the big over-arching conflicts is going to deal with these issues by traveling to Exalted's alternate worlds to confront those problems in one way or another. Exalted, as anyone who has a long-standing familiarity with it can tell you, is not a game given over to to an excess of subtlety. Which is notable given some of the later stuff i'll get into. Heck, expanding on that real quick --- at what point would you realistically expect to encounter a giant monster (They're certainly depicted as looking like that in the art.) in the form of a human in the rest of the CofD? Werewolves exist, obviously. But they're an established horror trope so that shouldn't really count. Especially when you factor in that they're a holdover from the OWoD line of games. Besides, the monsters of Beast: The Primordial come off more as the abusive rear end in a top hat equivalent of an otherkin than a rampaging ball of furry death. And this is a monster that, might I add, lives in an alternate reality that has nothing to do with the day to day going ons of the rest of the setting and it's various human and supernatural splats. So interaction in it's real form is gonna be at least a bit difficult. But even if you do get that far then at what point would you expect the PC's to fight as an example the as-written giant sexy snake man that's menacing the coast line and occasionally re-enacting the sinking of the Titanic on any nearby ships? Or, and I poo poo you not, the guy whose internal Beast is literally just the person being a racism elemental. When would you expect Imperial Mysteries tier poo poo like the Dark Mother to matter to your average game? Because hoo boy --- is it ever written as being important to your average Beast. There's also a serious division in tone and the expectations of how outside splats are going to interact with Beast's (outside of the obvious answer of "kill it before it ruins everyone's lives and monologues about how they deserved it/it was doing them a favor, that is.) that don't really feel like they fit with the setting. Just look at the whole "alternate world" stuff I posted up above for one comparatively short example of what I mean in both the game's mechanics and it's written narration. Or for another example aside from that, consider the concept of running into a different secret library-world populated by a conspiracy of Beast's (a thing that apparently exists) that want to find the Dark Mother (Or just flay humans alive or whatever other sick poo poo amuses them at the moment. That's part of the write-up too!). That's the sort of wacky action movie nonsense that older books like Hunter: Night Stalkers warned against pursuing if they want to maintain a definite sense of seriousness about the game. It's confusing, and I really don't how the hell this stuff would fit in with anything like the vast majority of the CofD. The secret library-hive-world thing for instance is literally evoking the tone of gonzo-esque games like Exalted. Or failing that, some of the really awful gonzo poo poo that people hated about OWoD Vampire. Like the True Black Hand and the whole secret city in the underworld thing. Which was so bad that even White Wolf decided to walk it back by basically nuking the place out of existence in the setting as part of the whole week of nightmares metaplot. There's a sharp division in not just the tone of what's being described and the rest of the setting but also what was even considered an immediate priority to describe in the books past the initial Beast core book compared to other things that could have been fleshed out or fixed. It's like --- who is this content supposed to appeal too? And I don't just mean in the sense that Beast's are basically a self-justifying insert for people that exploit and abuse others. I mean, where in general play would this sort of thing fit into play for the rest of the setting? Because sometimes it's coming off as running at way higher of a power level than i'd expect pretty much any serious game in the setting to be at. And when it's not it's just lovely abuse apologia. Dave Brookshaw posted:Yes, this. McFarland first pitched a Dragon game, with varying sorts of “hoard”. That the game changed from initial spark is not unusual - Mage and Geist did, too, and those are just the two I know about. Deviant didn’t so much change as go through five months of me realising “and *this* fits. and *this* fits, and *this* fits, too”. All that being said I have to admit that i'm kind of curious about the Dragon game now that I know about it. Was all the abuse justification and other nasty stuff present in the original pitch? Or did all that happen later with Beast when McFarland was working on it? If not, what was the pitch for Dragon and it's themes/general idea? It seems like you there was a lot that could have been done there. You've got the hoarding aspect of mythological dragons, which would be a neat analogue for modern capitalistic woes. And given Mage's in setting myths there seems like a lot of neat stuff that could have been done there. Archonex fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Aug 6, 2019 |
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Aug 6, 2019 07:27
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The spooky dark world is a Temenos Realm. The Mother's Land is the Anima Mundi. They're both shared with mages (mostly) and demons (tangentially, through one DtD corebook power). There's more cross-game support for the Primordial Dream than there is for the Hedge or Underworld. Amidst everything else to do with Beast, this is a hill I'm gonna die on, because it was me who *made* the Primordial Dream the Temenos, and wrote the section the player's guide to give Beasts their own terms for things but nodding to the reader that no, they were the same. As for Dragon, I'm afraid it was five or six years and two email accounts ago, so I really can't summon any details. A few things from the idea I pitched at the time (the only time I ever did!) made it into Beast's melting-pot. But also into Deviant's. I wanted to do a YA-style 'your parents turn out to be aliens/fish people' family heritage game, which sort of got folded into Beast's Family theme, but I ended up doing in Deviant with the Born origin anyway.
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Aug 6, 2019 08:46
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Dave Brookshaw posted:I wanted to do a YA-style 'your parents turn out to be aliens/fish people' family heritage game, which sort of got folded into Beast's Family theme, but I ended up doing in Deviant with the Born origin anyway. An Innsmouth-esque game about being fish squid people with a connection to the astral / Temenos would have been a great idea in its own right, never mind the low bar of "much better than Beast."
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Aug 6, 2019 08:49
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i think deviant looks like a much better catch-all game than beast, just from how it's structured. i don't mean that in a way to imply it's generic or anything, it just seems like the different origins and clades are much more flexible in what you can create. it seems like you could do the classic 'my parents are monsters and i'm coming into my inheritance' story, or something like that old nickelodeon show Alex Mack where you got mutated and you're trying to hide it so the company doesn't come and capture you, or even a universal soldier type thing where you were built deliberately and escaped. it's very cool and looks elegantly done. like you can mix and match but without everything ending up the same sort of beige. i'd be interested in seeing if the rules in deviant would let you model something like one of the evil alchemists from promethean who has turned themself into a pseudo-promethean, or a spirit host from werewolf or something.
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Aug 6, 2019 09:02
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Dave Brookshaw posted:The spooky dark world is a Temenos Realm. The Mother's Land is the Anima Mundi. They're both shared with mages (mostly) and demons (tangentially, through one DtD corebook power). Don't get me wrong. The stuff to do with Mother's Land and the spooky dark world was actually real cool. I liked it quite a bit. If nothing else, getting more background information about the Dark Mother and how one of the splats works "behind the scenes" from an in setting perspective was great. The problem was when I read through it I kept trying to figure out how I could ever get this involved in a game outside of Beast that wasn't Mage without having a cop-out that relies on the GM taking a measure of agency from the player's and I was drawing a blank. Maybe if it was start of a larger arc, I guess? Or maybe I missed something there that'd let most other splats reliably interact with it outside of the GM shrugging and saying "poo poo happened and now you're here  ".The whole dragon thing actually kind of sounds neat.. Shame it didn't get the go ahead. It's neat to see that some of it got rolled into Deviant however. Definitely going to pick it up when it's available.
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Aug 6, 2019 09:03
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:An Innsmouth-esque game about being fish squid people with a connection to the astral / Temenos would have been a great idea in its own right, never mind the low bar of "much better than Beast." Oh, no connection to the temenos - that's a Beast thing. I wanted to do a straight up Roswell/Teen Wolf/Aliens in the Family/Lost Girl type thing about finding out you have a secret heritage, wrapped in "this is a metaphor for being a second generation immigrant. and also for adolescence". But, ya know, stuff. It never happened, and Deviant has taken enough of its inspiration that it'd be redundant now.
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Aug 6, 2019 09:47
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can anyone with more crunch experience than me help me out with this parasitism discipline? i'm a true dunce of the earth and having trouble making something 'balanced'. this is the rough outline so far: 1. ghoul body. your blood potence and humanity are considered your number of dots in parasitism lower/higher for the purposes of sunlight damage. the ghoul body takes on your physical stats, so you can't just possess a muscle man and dumpstat your own physical stats i guess. 2. stronger body connection. you can spend vitae to steal memories from the host brain, or use one of the host's stats in place of your own for a scene. 3. nervous control. you passively ignore (parasitism) wound penalties from bashing, or if you spend vitae ignore them from lethal 4. spine stinger. burst your spine out of your host's flesh to attack an enemy and inject them with some type supernatural paralysis venom 5. face hugger. in a high risk maneuver you can explosively leave your existing host and attempt to bore into a new host. this is contested somehow, and maybe if you do it on a vampire you can potentially diablerise them? but stealing their body doesn't give you any sun resistance.
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Aug 6, 2019 10:35
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Archonex posted:There's a sharp division in not just the tone of what's being described and the rest of the setting but also what was even considered an immediate priority to describe in the books past the initial Beast core book compared to other things that could have been fleshed out or fixed. It's like --- who is this content supposed to appeal too? And I don't just mean in the sense that Beast's are basically a self-justifying insert for people that exploit and abuse others. I mean, where in general play would this sort of thing fit into play for the rest of the setting? Because sometimes it's coming off as running at way higher of a power level than i'd expect pretty much any serious game in the setting to be at. And when it's not it's just lovely abuse apologia. There are some powers that let beasts travel between realms. I mean they have a power that lets them not only use any supernatural door to travel to the primordial dream, it also lets them just.. use any supernatural door. As to why they would want to go to the Mother's Land, perhaps to find some dark secret that would help them take down an incarnate beast? Because that's the problem with Incarnate Beasts (like Sneksy) they're essentially plot devices, you need to figure out how they got so powerful, so you can unmake them and bring them down to "Normal". At least I believe that is the intent. The problem is that this is all mostly conjecture because Beast doesn't really have its own plot, outside of that which we can infer. The default assumption seems to be that you'd latch onto another supernatural and use their plot with occasional hero slaying interludes. So if you remove the heroes(and the abuse apologia which they embody) you don't have anything. That's why I say Beast isn't worth fixing, to provide a reason for them to exist you're essentially creating a whole new game.
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Aug 6, 2019 15:21
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Dave Brookshaw posted:Yes, this. McFarland first pitched a Dragon game, with varying sorts of “hoard”. That the game changed from initial spark is not unusual - Mage and Geist did, too, and those are just the two I know about. Deviant didn’t so much change as go through five months of me realising “and *this* fits. and *this* fits, and *this* fits, too”. As soon as I get my hands on the book I'm releasting an adventure where you have to rescue eleven preteen girls from The Singing Drake's inescapable fortress, Chateau Degrassé. edit- then they kill him with rocks.
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Aug 6, 2019 16:01
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I've been trying to get my way through Promethean 2E, and while thoughts of a campaign percolate I am curious if there's any Promethean-specific threats to an entire city out there.
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Aug 6, 2019 16:50
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Dawgstar posted:I've been trying to get my way through Promethean 2E, and while thoughts of a campaign percolate I am curious if there's any Promethean-specific threats to an entire city out there. My low-key favorite is the failed creations that now do two things: 1. robotically loop through a basic life routine like an NPC in a Hitman game (a sample NPC is given who works at the fast food place > sleeps in his car > repeat) 2. take any corpse they see (or seriously injured person they then prioritize killing) and try and fail to make a Promethean out of them, inevitably making another loop-zombie Pod person zombie apocalypse that sneaks up on you and poses no threat to anyone until all of a sudden it poses a VERY significant threat to everyone.
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Aug 6, 2019 17:00
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unseenlibrarian posted:For that matter, the Scarecrow Ministry entitlement for the Autumn Court is all about "Pretend to be a scary monster in the woods to scare people away from real estate", as their gimmick is that they guard entrances to the hedge and thin places where humans might run into creepy fae poo poo they don't want anyone else to poke that poo poo and get taken the way they were, complete with pretending to be a local ghost/cryptid legend.
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Aug 6, 2019 17:17
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Zereth posted:The Scarecrow Ministry seems like some cool-rear end poo poo. It really is, though I may be biased since I was in a game with a cool one and we linked our character backstories. (His scooby doo disguise was basically pretending to be the urban legend based on my character getting taken, as everyone told stories about a phantom biker after my PC got challenged to a race in the sixties and ended up in the hedge where his keeper found him..)
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Aug 6, 2019 17:37
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Dawgstar posted:I've been trying to get my way through Promethean 2E, and while thoughts of a campaign percolate I am curious if there's any Promethean-specific threats to an entire city out there. This is your party, pretty much. I love the rules for Firestorms so much in 2e. Also, don't forget every man, woman, and child has a very good chance of Hating all the PCs. An alchemist tracking the party by all the devestation they leave behind is always good.
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Aug 6, 2019 18:09
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Kurieg posted:That's why I say Beast isn't worth fixing, to provide a reason for them to exist you're essentially creating a whole new game. Given this, I get the feeling that we're generally both agreeing on the same thing. Only we're coming at it from different angles. Archonex fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Aug 6, 2019 |
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Aug 6, 2019 19:25
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Soonmot posted:Was the first WtF Night Horror book only about the Pure, or did it go into the Azlu and Beshilu too? I'm digging the new hosts in the book but would love a more detailed write up on the rats and spiders than we get in WtF core. tl;dr for in-depth Beshilu and Azlu information, check first edition's Werewolf the Forsaken: Predators. Those two hosts get a lot of expanding on in the third chapter, and the locust, raven, and snakes get some too (but less). Predators was the go to for most Werewolf and spirit stuff in 1e. First chapter has like 40-80 different spirits, second chapter goes into ridden and claimed (nice examples, tho I prefer the mechanics in 2e), third has hosts, and the fourth has 'Horrors of an Ancient Age' which were more or less unique monsters that would probably be done now as Horrors, representing Beasts ascendant or fallen Pangaeans, things gone haywire, or just unique entities that hate werewolves. Night Horrors: Wolfsbane has no azlu or beshilu, though it references some of them. First chapter is 'wolves' containing mostly Pure but some Forsaken that can be threats. Second is 'The Shadow' with some cool spirits and weird entities (a hunter claimed by his werewolf-hating fetish weapon, bizarre mixes of flesh and spirit, and some new hosts. Third chapter was 1e's version of idigam, which is mostly just useful for inspiration at the moment (imho). The big Pure book is 1e's The Pure, which has 4 chapters, one for each tribe and one as a mini hunting ground around Santa Fe with some Packs (mostly the leaders get descriptions) and spirit totems that sound awesome but have no mechanics. nofather fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Aug 6, 2019 |
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Aug 6, 2019 21:45
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The Pure stuff IIRC is not wholly compatible with the 2e Pure, but mostly on the fact that the 2e Pure have been redone to reflect the visceral need for werewolves to hunt things.
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Aug 6, 2019 21:55
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Thank you for that detailed info dump!
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Aug 6, 2019 22:27
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Hey, what's up with snake hosts? Worth looking up?
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Aug 7, 2019 01:26
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Joe Slowboat posted:Hey, what's up with snake hosts? Worth looking up? Not really. It's up in the air. They're the last ones mentioned, with a nice piece of art and an example one, but it's purposefully ambiguous about what they do or are about aside from them being super rare and super insidious, so insidious that werewolves don't even know what they're about, all in all maybe 2 full pages of writing? There's a sidebar that even says 'No, we're not being utterly lazy when we state that the Razilu seem to have no discernable purpose or instinct that drives them. The Snake Hosts are presented for the sole purpose of customization - whatever purpose they serve, whatever instinct drives them, whatever split them apart in the first place, all his left wide open for the Storyteller.' They offer a trio of suggestions. The lore lover in me will always be dissatisfied, but thats a really subjective thing, so maybe others like the write-up a lot (I think I ran into someone on the forum who liked them). I needed reptilian hosts for my game and ended up making them a reptoid/illuminati takeover conspiracy that are far less numerous than people think, most of them being trapped inside the endless dungeon of Snake's carcass. nofather fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 03:19
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Okay, here's the books I'm willing to part with cheap:  All fairly good condition. These are ones I've got personal interest in hanging onto, at least long enough for a cursory read:  The Wraith hardcopy is fairly well loved. I can post more pictures, I'm just in the middle of a bunch of house poo poo and am perpetually distracted. make me an offer. Not included in this photo is an impressively undamaged copy of Outcasts, A Player's Guide to Pariahs. Rand Brittain posted:I could use most of Werewolf and Resplendent Cranes. I've got Hengeyokai, Mokole, Rage Across The World 3, the Kinfolk book, Guardians of the Caerns, Glasswalkers, and the Werewolf's player's guide.
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Aug 7, 2019 16:01
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https://twitter.com/VividVivka/status/1158781165530075137
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Aug 7, 2019 17:27
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No Mr. Rogers, not a LARP! Bad News: I gave up on crabpires since I couldn't figure out a cool angle for their background. Basically my idea was they were gangrels with the nosferatu weakness as well. Every dot of Fortitude gives them a more pronounced carapace and their protean forms need to be crab or lobster-like. They'd get Obsfucate as a bloodline discipline. Good News: I'm currently writing out the stats for the CHUDs and Alpha CHUDs. Edit: And here it is, my take on Abominations. I know that the biggest problem is how fiddly applying the Swarm and Pack Leader conditions are, but hopefully it only needing to be done once, and not multiple times an encounter makes up for it. https://1drv.ms/b/s!AghVLzMOTtR_i3bTIgsPpZM7fGGZ Soonmot fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 17:32
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and I almost triple posted attempting to edit out this quote/edit gently caress up.
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Aug 7, 2019 19:10
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Just want to point out that easily a hundred thousand words in this thread have been spilled over Beast, a reprehensible game no one has or will or should play, and absolutely no one is talking about Mummy, a game no one played but is fun and funny and interesting
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Aug 7, 2019 19:16
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Shrecknet posted:Just want to point out that easily a hundred thousand words in this thread have been spilled over Beast, a reprehensible game no one has or will or should play, and absolutely no one is talking about Mummy, a game no one played but is fun and funny and interesting Well, it's moderately unplayable. That said, it's definitely full of great writing, great themes, and I have high hopes for the second edition.
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Aug 7, 2019 19:25
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Rand Brittain posted:Well, it's moderately unplayable. Are you referring to mummy or beast?
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Aug 7, 2019 19:31
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Shrecknet posted:Are you referring to mummy or beast? Mummy. Mummy has a strong premise, and it's super-ambitious, but the dev was too busy making intense eyes at women to exercise any control over whether any of the ideas made any sense. The book is actively deceptive about how it's meant to be played, because the player section has everybody making their own mummy, but this is essentially impossible and the Frameworks don't make it so. It really wants to be some kind of story-game troupe-play My Life With Master thing where you take turns playing the mummy and her cultists. Also, it can't be consistent about important setting elements like "mummies can't make artifacts" because huge sections of the corebook were obviously written by people who thought mummies can make artifacts. And if they can't make artifacts, what purpose do the Guilds even serve? How do mummies continue to maintain these complex social structures when they're mostly amnesiac and spend 99% of history as rotting corpses? And if you elide those difficulties to make the social structure possible, why even have them in the first place? Also, Book of the Deceived apparently won writing awards, and I have no idea how because the whole thing is word salad.
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Aug 7, 2019 19:41
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Unfortunately, reactionary product lovers are demanding to keep it so it matters rather than ensure the chargen system is newbie-friendly and free of traps and pitfalls.
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Aug 7, 2019 20:05
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Shrecknet posted:Just want to point out that easily a hundred thousand words in this thread have been spilled over Beast, a reprehensible game no one has or will or should play, and absolutely no one is talking about Mummy, a game no one played but is fun and funny and interesting
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Aug 7, 2019 21:09
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Mummy doesn't get discussed less than Beast because it's some kind of secret gem, though. It gets discussed less than Beast because Beast is offensively awful whereas Mummy is a game about being a kind of monster nobody cares about, with clunky mechanics even by WoD standards, and basically zero advertising.
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Aug 7, 2019 21:13
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Mummy also has the disadvantage of being weirdly reminiscent of owod/World of Darkness writing in enough places that it's a little harder to talk about as part of the broader nwod/Chronicles universe. Like, Mummy is the game where you have explicit target-number-fuckery powers, and also, Secret Lore About What's Actually Happening, Don't Tell The Players Add in the stuff Rand's talking about like "why and how do they have social structures despite being amnesiac corpses at the height of their power?" and just the very basic, core issue that people tend not to buy a game to only play the titular gribbly on a rotating basis, if at all. The whole "start at max power stat and everyone else is support staff" thing is a cute idea but it's just SO different from how every other line functions at a fundamental level that it's hard to conceive of how you make it work, to say nothing of how you'd want to make them intersect other than saying "oh hey it just so happens that your Mummy PC ran into the rest of the party when their Power Stat was within 1 of theirs! weird!"
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Aug 7, 2019 21:21
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Mummy doesn't get discussed less than Beast because it's some kind of secret gem, though. I think it's even worse at "wait how does a group of these things work out" than Beast is, too
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Aug 7, 2019 21:21
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I would be down for a Abbot and Costello type game where a cult of mortals tries to direct their superpowered amnesiac corpse buddy to attack the British Museum. I bet plenty of antics would ensue.
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Aug 7, 2019 21:28
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