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Party Boat posted:I think it's pretty telling that the various patrons aren't anywhere near as upset as the folks of the internet that decided to get massively offended on their behalf. In particular it was news to me that the response from Ben that keeps being posted alongside Malaysian dad's wasn't a response to him at all, and that there aren't pricing issues with the Epic store in Malaysia any more. honestly same. like i think they hosed up a bit but they genuinly tried to unfuck the situation. i blame sweeny and shithead gamers for the situation getting, i may pick it up on xbox if its on sale. Also no one is gonna give a poo poo about this in week. the resetera types are already getting mad at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtTd3_2WjEg and most of the chud assholes will get bored and leave the devs alone(hopefully). Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 18:48
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:According to the Samurai Shodown Devs, this IS how it works. Well for one thing we know that Epic doesn't offer the same deal to every dev. Satisfactory was one of the first games to be announced as an EGS exclusive, along with Rebel Galaxy. The RG dev has said that they didn't get any upfront cash at all. Maybe they were promised a revenue guarantee, but if that's the case then that would be paid out at the end of exclusivity. It might be splitting hairs, but the Samurai Showdown story was google translated and EGS wasn't even explicitly named. Its kind of nonsensical since we know that Epic will simply offer development funding if they want to leverage upfront cash. Not saying its out of the realm of possibility, just that I don't think its likely. Also consider that by all accounts Satisfactory is a good game and its possible for good games to sell a lot of copies even without Steam.
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Aug 7, 2019 18:52
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admataY posted:I see we are in the part of the conspiracy where we pretend disney supposedly buys entire theatre worth of captain marvel tickets to hide the facts that its a big stinky failure . Protecting gamer-feels is like protecting man-feels i guess . Lmao epic literally does this you dumbass
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Aug 7, 2019 18:54
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MMF Freeway posted:Not saying its out of the realm of possibility, just that I don't think its likely. Also consider that by all accounts Satisfactory is a good game and its possible for good games to sell a lot of copies even without Steam. i also think it's possible for a good game to sell lots of copies on the game platform that hosts the most played game of all time
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Aug 7, 2019 18:56
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:How is it Fortnite's fault that Epic cancelled a game that was still in alpha after 4 years of development and probably had a playerbase in the low hundreds? just play quake champions. it's good. it has some lovely cosmetic lootboxes, but the base gameplay is basically quake3 with an extra gimmick
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Aug 7, 2019 19:01
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Truga posted:just play quake champions. it's good. it has some lovely cosmetic lootboxes, but the base gameplay is basically quake3 with an extra gimmick Yea I played it for a bit, but the netcode and or hitboxes were a bit off. I should try it again to see if they have improved it.
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Aug 7, 2019 19:11
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Truga posted:just play quake champions. it's good. it has some lovely cosmetic lootboxes, but the base gameplay is basically quake3 with an extra gimmick Game hasn't been updated in 2 months, and has only around 1000 people playing it during the day.
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Aug 7, 2019 19:22
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Jack-Off Lantern posted:According to the Samurai Shodown Devs, this IS how it works. Yes, we know that's how it works because the CEO of THQ Nordic told his stockholders during a Q&A that's exactly how their exclusivity deal with Epic over Metro Exodus works. He had to explain why their sales number for Metro on the PC drop off a cliff within a few day after release, even though that's where they expected to sell the most copies, and that's the answer he gave.  Truga posted:I've been doing pc gaming since the early 90s, and I've never seen a game do that. I recall it being problem with Descent and Mad Trax, maybe I'm mis-remembering, it was a long time ago.
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Aug 7, 2019 19:23
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It's also why Epic thought they don't have to ask the devs about putting their games on sale: https://twitter.com/mikeBithell/sta...ly-delist-games This would also sound like a crazy conspiracy if it wasn't confirmed by devs themselves.
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Aug 7, 2019 19:27
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MMF Freeway posted:Well for one thing we know that Epic doesn't offer the same deal to every dev. Why would they do anything different? It's a win-win for EGS and the dev because they can both gloat about "how well" their game sold at launch on EGS. There's no reason for Epic to not buy copies and make their store look good in terms of sales, by only offering a lump sum.
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Aug 7, 2019 19:27
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Palpek posted:It's also why Epic thought they don't have to ask the devs about putting their games on sale: epic is good, actually
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Aug 7, 2019 19:29
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did anyone say pooblets yet??
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Aug 7, 2019 19:31
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Palpek posted:It's also why Epic thought they don't have to ask the devs about putting their games on sale: Steam (and probably most similar stores) has a policy that if you offer a discount on another store you have to offer a comparable discount on theirs (though not necessarily at the same time). This is probably a big part of the reason developers were upset about Epic thinking they didn't have to ask before having a big discount on their games (many of which were not exclusive), and quite likely the motivation behind this current pre-order offer ("It's not a discount, it's the store owners paying part of the price!") Beyond that, hey, if Epic wants to use their wads of cash to try to attract customers with unsustainable discounts, I'm not going to object. Take them up on it if you want, and it's a much nicer way (from a consumer point of view) to use their money to buy market share than the exclusives were. Bremen fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 19:33
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Venuz Patrol posted:epic is good, actually Does this mean you're done arguing in good faith?
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Aug 7, 2019 20:42
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Bremen posted:Steam (and probably most similar stores) has a policy that if you offer a discount on another store you have to offer a comparable discount on theirs (though not necessarily at the same time). This is probably a big part of the reason developers were upset about Epic thinking they didn't have to ask before having a big discount on their games (many of which were not exclusive), and quite likely the motivation behind this current pre-order offer ("It's not a discount, it's the store owners paying part of the price!") Developers were upset about it because they should be the ones setting the value of their own game, and discounts/sales decrease the value in the eyes of the consumer. Things have already regressed to the point where people balk at paying $20 for an indie game; surprise cut to the bone sales don’t help. Sure Epic reimbursed the sale, but will they do that next time? When the customers now expect deep discounts? How long are they going to keep this up? Epic is using absurdly aggressive techniques to get attention in the near term and the devs are worrying about the long term.
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Aug 7, 2019 21:06
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Dapper_Swindler posted:https://kotaku.com/epic-store-rage-has-gotten-out-of-hand-1837008625 Blaming Valve for this feels a bit like blaming Norway for the US civil war 
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Aug 7, 2019 21:42
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And now Valve is trying to fix the release date gaming a couple of devs were doing. https://www.pcgamer.com/valve-appears-to-have-put-a-stop-to-the-steam-release-date-exploit/ Has any progress been made on the Epic Store roadmap?
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Aug 7, 2019 21:49
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Saying Valve is to blame is a bad take, but I think it's fair to criticize Valve for just standing around and doing nothing about this. They won't even release a statement explaining why their storefront is the better option for developers.
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Aug 7, 2019 21:56
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I said come in! posted:Saying Valve is to blame is a bad take, but I think it's fair to criticize Valve for just standing around and doing nothing about this. They won't even release a statement explaining why their storefront is the better option for developers. yeah, like i think its mix of lazyness and partly "steam is too drat big/complicated to fully moderate and purge".
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Aug 7, 2019 22:02
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Absolutely Valve is lovely in it's own ways, I don't think anyone argues against that. EGS is just worse.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:07
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that would be adding fuel to the fire of the 'debate'. look at the gaming news sites, how would anything they say get received? that'd also be conceding any issue but to epic's terms rather than dealing with the developers directly. it'd make the situation worse and play into epic's incompetent plan
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Aug 7, 2019 22:08
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the kotaku article is completely accurate to say that valve forces developers to host a forum on steam for their games but doesn’t provide any moderators or other assistance with moderating the content on those forums what they failed to add is that the steam front page is so poorly designed that it’s nearly impossible for small budget developers to get enough attention for games they release to recoup costs, let alone turn a profit. nobody would be trying to catch the attention of the kinds of people sending death threats to the ooblets devs if they could avoid it, but there’s just no money left in steam, especially if you don’t already have three or four successful releases under your belt
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Aug 7, 2019 22:10
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Ohhhh nooooo, a free centrally located forum where game buyers can find answers to their questions and help from people suffering with the same bugs.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:24
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graventy posted:Ohhhh nooooo, a free centrally located forum where game buyers can find answers to their questions and help from people suffering with the same bugs. That's where Entitled Gamers go to be toxic so forums are a bad thing and it's good EGS doesn't have them. The same is true for user reviews because something something review bombing.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:27
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graventy posted:Ohhhh nooooo, a free centrally located forum where game buyers can find answers to their questions and help from people suffering with the same bugs. lol, this isn't how the Steam forums really work. In reality every single forum is a cesspool of endless entitled whining, racism, and general hate. You can't go 5 minutes without tripping over a thread yelling about how SJW's are ruining video games.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:28
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I said come in! posted:Saying Valve is to blame is a bad take, but I think it's fair to criticize Valve for just standing around and doing nothing about this. They won't even release a statement explaining why their storefront is the better option for developers. They did. Before the Epic store even came out they had already revised their cut so that successful games make more money. A couple weeks after Epic store released, they also put out a whole new line of data tracking tools that let devs see where their traffic comes from, including from which countries and from where on the internet it's coming from. It was, quite literally, Steam subtly telling devs "Look, guys. This is how much discoverability you actually have and the foreign customers you'll gently caress over going with Epic." I don't think this argument makes any sense. Valve does gently caress up with things like that error that lowered traffic to smaller games for a month but at the same time they've fixed things like review bombings, developed their own gamepad, VR AND networking APIs so that devs don't have to, provide tools like the workshop as well as publish and update extensive documentation on how to use them/publish your game in general and as of late they are even giving customers a free five bucks per sale so they can buy whatever at no loss to devs. Surely game devs don't need to be constantly reminded of all that? The only way Valve could really go further to "explain why they are the better option" would be strapping indies to a chair and slapping them around while reading a list of features. Det_no fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 22:29
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I feel like I must be seeing some other Steam storefront in tyool 2019 if people still complain about endless walls of trash. By and large the store suggests stuff I'm interested in, and when I go browsing it puts the good poo poo at the top.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:30
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I said come in! posted:lol, this isn't how the Steam forums really work. In reality every single forum is a cesspool of endless entitled whining, racism, and general hate. You can't go 5 minutes without tripping over a thread yelling about how SJW's are ruining video games. You can just not read the idiot posts/threads but yes for tiny games that don't have a billion videos made about them that's absolutely how you get "tech support".
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Aug 7, 2019 22:30
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orcane posted:You can just not read the idiot posts/threads but yes for tiny games that don't have a billion videos made about them that's absolutely how you get "tech support". You can't ignore it though, that is the thing! It is 100% of the Steam forums. If I need support with a PC game, I just come here, but for everyone else not an SA member, they don't have that option.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:33
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I said come in! posted:lol, this isn't how the Steam forums really work. In reality every single forum is a cesspool of endless entitled whining, racism, and general hate. You can't go 5 minutes without tripping over a thread yelling about how SJW's are ruining video games. I’m sure lots are terrible but in my experience they’re good resources for finding out what issues people are having and to see spoiler discussions on the walking sims I like to play. Valve should probably make them optional, though.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:34
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Venuz Patrol posted:the kotaku article is completely accurate to say that valve forces developers to host a forum on steam for their games but doesn’t provide any moderators or other assistance with moderating the content on those forums Except that's pure fantasy. Steam does help moderate that stuff: https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/community_moderation quote:Global Moderation & Reported Posts ... and you can always see first time devs putting out popular games. For example this one which is currently 22nd best seller in the entire shop. https://store.steampowered.com/app/594770/Legends_of_Aria/ I said come in! posted:lol, this isn't how the Steam forums really work. In reality every single forum is a cesspool of endless entitled whining, racism, and general hate. You can't go 5 minutes without tripping over a thread yelling about how SJW's are ruining video games. That's just embarrassing hyperbole and you know it. Come on, now. How many arguments against Steam gravitate around this "I don't know how it actually works but I'll pretend I do" kind of poo poo?
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Aug 7, 2019 22:38
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Venuz Patrol posted:what they failed to add is that the steam front page is so poorly designed that it’s nearly impossible for small budget developers to get enough attention for games they release to recoup costs, let alone turn a profit. nobody would be trying to catch the attention of the kinds of people sending death threats to the ooblets devs if they could avoid it, but there’s just no money left in steam, especially if you don’t already have three or four successful releases under your belt This always struck me as a weird argument. You can already search Steam for games in a number of ways (which, as I understand it, isn't true of Epic) designed to help you find games you might like. Sure, it doesn't put every game in a customer's face, but that's a result of how many games are coming out, not Steam's incompetence it showing users games. It's basically similar to me writing a book and selling it on Amazon, and then when I get no sales complaining that it's Amazon's fault for not making my book highly visible. If indie developers come out with a game, they're already getting more visibility than they would if Steam didn't exist, can advertise it however they wish, and if it's a really good game word of mouth will do the advertising for them. I think the main problem with indie sales on Steam right now is that there are a whole lot of mediocre to decent indie games coming out every week and it's very hard to rise above them to capture the limited $$$ people are spending unless you make a truly outstanding game. And that kind of is Steam's fault, since Steam created a lucrative video games market and then threw it open to anyone, but at the same time I don't really blame them for it. Most of the developers who complain about visibility on Steam are ones who wouldn't have been able to sell on Steam if they were still limiting who was let in, anyways, Steam just makes for a good scapegoat when their sales are low. Bremen fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 22:41
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Venuz Patrol posted:the kotaku article is completely accurate to say that valve forces developers to host a forum on steam for their games but doesn’t provide any moderators or other assistance with moderating the content on those forums There is, actually, money left in steam. I know small teams that put small releases on Steam and had moderate success. I even contributed to one. And the idea that the better alternative sitting around hoping Epic hand picks your game is laughable. Anything big enough for Epic to even notice the existence of was probably going to do fine on steam. That doesn't mean that those particular lucky devs shouldn't take Epic's money, but it does mean that acting like Epic is here to save the poor overlooked games that no one would notice on steam is ridiculous. Epic isn't taking all indie games and curating out total trash, they're cherrypicking things they think are going to be big hits.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:43
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Epic can only release like 1 to 2 games per week due to technical limitations, right? It's going to be a tiny minority of indie games that will be on the service, for the rest the platform that you're guaranteed to be able to get on will be better.Verranicus posted:I feel like I must be seeing some other Steam storefront in tyool 2019 if people still complain about endless walls of trash. By and large the store suggests stuff I'm interested in, and when I go browsing it puts the good poo poo at the top.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:48
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Retail stores used to account for 25% of a game’s price, and they had to dedicate more floor space per game than Steam and CompUSA had to hire far more actual labor than Valve, who basically tries to keep it’s employee directory so small that nearly anyone who works there is something of an industry rockstar. Algorithms and hosting is cheap, live bodies are expensive. 30% shouldn’t be necessary for the operation they do, though overall the easiest way to describe the problem with Steam is that Steam is a good product but Valve is no longer the best company to run it. Valve isn’t going to change flatland, and Steam shouldn’t be run by a company that works that way. It should be spun off into it’s own business. I’ll fess to being a content elitist who thinks there’s too much indie bullshit on there and doing the same thing that Epic, Sony, Microsoft etc do in boosting the most commercially viable indie games is what the public really wants. Yes, indie games are pretty neat but imagine an ID@Xbox E3 sizzle reel that’s all buggy Minecraft clones and text based choose your own adventure novels.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:53
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I said come in! posted:lol, this isn't how the Steam forums really work. In reality every single forum is a cesspool of endless entitled whining, racism, and general hate. You can't go 5 minutes without tripping over a thread yelling about how SJW's are ruining video games. This is a gross generalization. Pretty much every time I've checked the forums for a game (usually the sort of obscure indies trying to make it big on Steam, y'know, the games we're actually concerned with here and not explosively popular stuff or "ironically" popular trash hentai games), it's full of users asking for tech help, asking for hints for stuff in-game, or reporting bugs to the devs. If there's multiplayer, there's threads asking if anyone wants to play. If there's a sale on, there will be people asking if the game is worth picking up. Maybe there's a thread were people talk narrative and chat about the ending. All normal stuff. What's way more common for me to see than unnecessary hate is for the forum to be a ghost town because for one reason or another the developer ignores it entirely or the game is simply so obscure there's literally only like 5 people tops posting about it.
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Aug 7, 2019 22:54
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graventy posted:Ohhhh nooooo, a free centrally located forum where game buyers can find answers to their questions and help from people suffering with the same bugs. The Steam forums have the same problems as 4chan, Reddit, early Twitch chat, QuakeWorld chat and basically anywhere else where there’s no rule enforcement and changing pseudonyms is free and easy. Det_no posted:they've fixed things like review bombings Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Aug 7, 2019 |
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Aug 7, 2019 22:57
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if u have not posted at least 50+ times over the course of the month in da epic fail thread you are banned from having an opinion that's the rules
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Aug 7, 2019 23:14
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Craptacular! posted:The Steam forums have the same problems as 4chan, Reddit, early Twitch chat, QuakeWorld chat and basically anywhere else where there’s no rule enforcement and changing pseudonyms is free and easy. If you honestly think that "mixed" somehow looks worse to someone looking at a store page than "this developer has chosen to disable reviews" I don't know what to tell you. Hell, I'd trust "mostly negative" over "disabled reviews", that's such a huge red flag. I agree that Steam needs to invest more in actual human support and moderation, but just turning off reviews because people are saying unfair things in them is not even remotely a solution.
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Aug 7, 2019 23:17
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Epic can only release like 1 to 2 games per week due to technical limitations, right? The technical limitation of designing a digital storefront so horrifically badly that they have to someone at Epic manually edit the main page to add new games to it.
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