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Phobophilia posted:if u have not posted at least 50+ times over the course of the month in da epic fail thread you are banned from having an opinion that's the rules Less this and more coming in to talk poo poo without knowing a thing about what you're talking about is pretty dumb.
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Aug 7, 2019 23:29
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Craptacular! posted:They “fixed” it in the most Valve way possible, adding more data that is of questionable value and doesn’t require them to have employees play cops against acts of gamer fragility. They still won’t let devs disable user reviews and forums. Really need you to start looking into the things you are talking about. https://www.polygon.com/2019/3/15/18267720/valve-steam-user-review-bombings-scoring-update
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Aug 7, 2019 23:32
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Verranicus posted:How many more times can we expect a goon who's super late to the party to swoop in and accuse everyone of being a GG chud without actually reading the thread, be called out, and then leave after saying "lol I don't have time to read your chud bullshit"? Or someone to come in and act as if the last 37 pages was nothing but goons brainstorming horrible DMs to send the Ooblets devs on Twitter while we read and re-read the ones they got sent with huge smiles on our faces? Seven.
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Aug 8, 2019 00:00
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Verranicus posted:How many more times can we expect a goon who's super late to the party to swoop in and accuse everyone of being a GG chud without actually reading the thread, be called out, and then leave after saying "lol I don't have time to read your chud bullshit"? Or someone to come in and act as if the last 37 pages was nothing but goons brainstorming horrible DMs to send the Ooblets devs on Twitter while we read and re-read the ones they got sent with huge smiles on our faces? I dunno if you were ever in hellthread but when people were in the middle of nice pleasant conversations about things, some clownass would swoop in, do exactly what you're talking about, then start breaking rules until they got probated, then the thread would go back to being interesting to read. and it just kept happening
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Aug 8, 2019 00:04
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Craptacular! posted:The Steam forums have the same problems as 4chan, Reddit, early Twitch chat, QuakeWorld chat and basically anywhere else where there’s no rule enforcement and changing pseudonyms is free and easy. Developers can almost entirely ignore their Steam forum if they want, and if they do want to use them they have a lot of power if they want up to and including request Valve to do ip/vac bans if the behavior is bad enough or violates the sites policies. And if Steam were to get rid of them entirely we'd go back to the good old days when you have anywhere between a difficult to nearly impossible task of finding a way to ask for help with a game. As for user reviews, why is turning off user reviews an option that should be in the hands of the developer? If Valve were to do it we could have a conversation, but developers absolutely should not have the power to arbitrarily just remove the review feature. nessin fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Aug 8, 2019 |
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Aug 8, 2019 00:11
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Verranicus posted:I feel like I must be seeing some other Steam storefront in tyool 2019 if people still complain about endless walls of trash. By and large the store suggests stuff I'm interested in, and when I go browsing it puts the good poo poo at the top. And if all else fails there's always http://whatsonsteam.com/index.htm Which I feel like does a solid enough job.
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Aug 8, 2019 00:17
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Like, yeah, if you dig deep enough you find trash on Steam. I generally stick to RPGs and strategy games these days and if you go far enough down the list you start to run into lovely RPG Maker games with optional porn patches, but you have to look for that poo poo at the bottom of 15+ pages of real games. Can't say if the same goes for other genres.
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Aug 8, 2019 00:37
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I said come in! posted:lol, this isn't how the Steam forums really work. In reality every single forum is a cesspool of endless entitled whining, racism, and general hate. You can't go 5 minutes without tripping over a thread yelling about how SJW's are ruining video games.  Craptacular! posted:They “fixed” it in the most Valve way possible, adding more data that is of questionable value and doesn’t require them to have employees play cops against acts of gamer fragility. They still won’t let devs disable user reviews and forums. When the older Borderlands games were being review bombed after the BL3 Epic exclusive announcement, the store page for those games had a fairly large notice about "Period(s) of off-topic review activity detected" and "Excluded from the Review Score (by default)". They basically made the overall reviews summary resistant to review bombing. It did not stop me from having to scroll through dozens of rude ASCII art "reviews" when trying to see if there was anything negative I needed to know about the BL1 remaster, but that's better than removing user reviews entirely. I wouldn't want user reviews to be turned off on Steam, GOG, Amazon or anywhere else. They are a great way to know quickly if the game won't run on certain configs, if it's buggy or has other technical issues. The relatively small amount of garbage reviews one has to go through before finding useful ones is totally worth it.
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Aug 8, 2019 00:44
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Individual Steam forums are generally fine, they become cesspits only in the presence of drama or if the game itself is some weird shitheap of some sort. I've used them extensively for bug fixing and the occasional query and not run into bad actors. The vast majority of games draw or cause no real grief at all and their respective forums are very usable. Craptacular! posted:They still won't let devs disable user reviews Why should they? Again, in the absence of major drama I've found Steam scores reflect, on aggregate, what the general consensus seems to be even offsite. And for all the fact that threads like this or the main Steam one document evolving drama weekly it's a skewed image of what really happens; most games release to whatever fanfare they get, people buy them and move on. The drama is the exception, not the rule. Much like YT videos with disabled comments/scores I'd find games on Steam with disabled user reviews to be far more suspect than not.
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Aug 8, 2019 00:53
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Taciturn Tactician posted:If you honestly think that "mixed" somehow looks worse to someone looking at a store page than "this developer has chosen to disable reviews" I don't know what to tell you. User reviews are meaningless to me personally because I’m a “gaming boomer” who listens to the same old folks that were reviewing games in the PS2 era, but a lot of the people I befriended online from 1998-2004 went into the industry and from watching them and other devs who are their Facebook friends shoot the poo poo about the industry, the tone I have picked up is that developers (or their bosses) are really concerned about user reviews. The ideal thing would be if they could disable all “Steam community” functions while still keeping their sales page on store.steampowered, using the service as a pure marketplace and avoiding the other functions. I may be misinterpreting these people, so I am not going to dive deep into this, it’s just the tone I’ve picked up. Community engagement is something studios often pay people to do now, and Valve basically creates a subreddit for your game whether you want one or not. nessin posted:As for user reviews, why is turning off user reviews an option that should be in the hands of the developer? If Valve were to do it we could have a conversation, but developers absolutely should not have the power to arbitrarily just remove the review feature. Because the Steam community stuff rarely benefits developers. It’s there to benefit Valve, because you get accustomed to expecting forums and a public screenshot/art image board fees, etc for each video game that you own and they hope you miss those features in other launchers. Apex Legends, Overwatch, etc doesn’t have any problem communicating with it’s players on it’s own terms. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Aug 8, 2019 |
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Aug 8, 2019 00:59
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Craptacular! posted:User reviews are meaningless to me personally because I’m a “gaming boomer” who listens to the same old folks that were reviewing games in the PS2 era, but a lot of the people I befriended online from 1998-2004 went into the industry and from watching them and other devs who are their Facebook friends shoot the poo poo about the industry, the tone I have picked up is that developers (or their bosses) are really concerned about user reviews. The ideal thing would be if they could disable all “Steam community” functions while still keeping their sales page on store.steampowered, using the service as a pure marketplace and avoiding the other functions. I'm gonna be real, if a developer really is worried about the idea that someone could review their game in a visible way, that makes me worried about their intentions. Craptacular! posted:Because the Steam community stuff rarely benefits developers. It’s there to benefit Valve, because you get accustomed to expecting forums and a public screenshot/art image board fees, etc for each video game that you own and they hope you miss those features in other launchers. This is a super weird take. If Valve adds a feature that people would want and dislike if it's not in competitors, that's... only a benefit to Valve? Not the... people who would miss those features? And what does Overwatch "communicating with its players" have to do with anything? Are you suggesting that's an acceptable substitute for reviews?
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Aug 8, 2019 01:20
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Craptacular! posted:User reviews are meaningless to me personally because I’m a “gaming boomer” who listens to the same old folks that were reviewing games in the PS2 era, but a lot of the people I befriended online from 1998-2004 went into the industry and from watching them and other devs who are their Facebook friends shoot the poo poo about the industry, the tone I have picked up is that developers (or their bosses) are really concerned about user reviews. The ideal thing would be if they could disable all “Steam community” functions while still keeping their sales page on store.steampowered, using the service as a pure marketplace and avoiding the other functions. The community stuff primarily benefits the customers/users, if you ask me. It's not like reviews are about communicating with the devs, anyway. It's for telling other potential players what to expect.
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Aug 8, 2019 01:31
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Craptacular! posted:User reviews are meaningless to me personally because I’m a “gaming boomer” who listens to the same old folks that were reviewing games in the PS2 era, but a lot of the people I befriended online from 1998-2004 went into the industry and from watching them and other devs who are their Facebook friends shoot the poo poo about the industry, the tone I have picked up is that developers (or their bosses) are really concerned about user reviews. The ideal thing would be if they could disable all “Steam community” functions while still keeping their sales page on store.steampowered, using the service as a pure marketplace and avoiding the other functions. Developers are highly motivated to control all discussion about their games but that is a goal that conflicts strongly with the users' goal of being informed of the game's weaknesses and technical problems. Valve tries to strike a balance between the goals to varying success.
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Aug 8, 2019 01:35
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Edit: Quoted the wrong post originallyCraptacular! posted:
Ah yes, the glorious argument that customers don't know what they actually want and when corporations give them what the customers think they want it's really a bad thing. That only works when it's actually harmful to the customers, unless you're contending that a review system is legitimately damaging to people. Also there is a whole wide world of video games out there that aren't the top 10 AAA titles with the backing to run their own fully featured websites and support systems. I can promise It will be amazing when you actually find them. nessin fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Aug 8, 2019 |
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Aug 8, 2019 01:39
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I said come in! posted:Saying Valve is to blame is a bad take, but I think it's fair to criticize Valve for just standing around and doing nothing about this. They won't even release a statement explaining why their storefront is the better option for developers. on one hand they could but on the other hand it can be hard to articulate. they can contact developers themselves, which would make sense to whoever receives it, but i think to the layman and common consumer, they could put out a public statement about backends, end-user experience, etc but most readers would be like  you can simplify it to a certain extent, but it would still have its fair share of jargon and technical terms that would just cause most people who saw it tune out.
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Aug 8, 2019 01:46
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A publisher quashing reviews is one of the surest ways to make me not buy a game because it says way more about their game than any review could. I can't remember exactly which games did it off the top of my head but it I have skipped a few games over it. If the Steam reviews could be turned off by the studio/publisher I would be really leery of buying any game set that way. Would wait to hear overwhelmingly good things, especially after players have had a chance to get deeper into things in case the content drops off a cliff or something mid-game.
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Aug 8, 2019 01:53
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You don't need to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every single event in the timeline of this drama to know that it's a crock of poo poo and that the Ooblets devs did not deserve to be harassed. The fact that Epic weighed in on the side of the devs is irrelevant on whether or not they "deserved" to be attacked. If anything, it's easy PR for Epic to defend the Ooblets devs. Again, if you really genuinely worry about Epic's attempts to monopolize the marketplace, you would absolutely not harass the devs, and you would denounce the harassment at every opportunity.
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Aug 8, 2019 02:38
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:I dunno if you were ever in hellthread but when people were in the middle of nice pleasant conversations about things, some clownass would swoop in, do exactly what you're talking about, then start breaking rules until they got probated, then the thread would go back to being interesting to read. anyone who considered themselves part of the hellthread community should be chemically castrated and thrown into a padded cell hth
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Aug 8, 2019 02:40
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Phobophilia posted:anyone who considered themselves part of the hellthread community should be chemically castrated and thrown into a padded cell hth Going to quote this so you can't remove it before you get probated, you psychopath.
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Aug 8, 2019 02:42
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Phobophilia posted:You don't need to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every single event in the timeline of this drama to know that it's a crock of poo poo and that the Ooblets devs did not deserve to be harassed. The fact that Epic weighed in on the side of the devs is irrelevant on whether or not they "deserved" to be attacked. If anything, it's easy PR for Epic to defend the Ooblets devs. Yes, everyone in this thread has agreed the developers don't deserve the harassment. You're complaining about people that don't exist.
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Aug 8, 2019 02:43
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mods please ban this sick filth attacking me and my idiot friends
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Aug 8, 2019 02:46
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Phobophilia posted:You don't need to have an encyclopedic knowledge of every single event in the timeline of this drama to know that it's a crock of poo poo and that the Ooblets devs did not deserve to be harassed. The fact that Epic weighed in on the side of the devs is irrelevant on whether or not they "deserved" to be attacked. If anything, it's easy PR for Epic to defend the Ooblets devs. Not one person in this thread has said they deserved to be harassed, you loving clod.
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Aug 8, 2019 02:56
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I'm glad the devs aren't fanning the flames further for now. The hardest thing for smug assholes is to loving just shut up and not look at twitter for a day or two.
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Aug 8, 2019 02:57
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I said come in! posted:lol, this isn't how the Steam forums really work. In reality every single forum is a cesspool of endless entitled whining, racism, and general hate. You can't go 5 minutes without tripping over a thread yelling about how SJW's are ruining video games. This is pretty untrue unless the game has a super toxic community or the game is facing some sort of controversy. Most titles I check the forums for have been pretty clean relatively speaking.
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Aug 8, 2019 03:42
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sigher posted:This is pretty untrue unless the game has a super toxic community or the game is facing some sort of controversy. Most titles I check the forums for have been pretty clean relatively speaking. Controversy is almost always chuds throwing a fit over something actually good, game devs shouldn't be held to it. Problem with the system but might be unsolvable until a positive change in culture, idk.
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Aug 8, 2019 04:00
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i've only ever seen toxicity in the steam forums when it's a AAA game or a high-profile indie game with inclusive and diverse characters, and it's generally in the pre-release stage. there are too many games coming out for chuds to want to hang out in the forum for a single game, they just move on to something else most common forum i see on steam is a ghost town forum with only a couple of threads with 0 replies
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Aug 8, 2019 04:17
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Steam Forums are loving amazing what are you talking about, if I run into a bug in a game there's a 100% chance there's a thread with a fix up already.
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Aug 8, 2019 04:29
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Yeah Steam forums are amazing for technical help, often you get devs responding, too.
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Aug 8, 2019 04:54
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Blaming Valve for the plight of the indie dev is kind of misplaced anyway. There are just so many loving indie games these days that it's impossible to feature them all properly. Like sure, Steam isn't really helping with the issue but it's very much a quantity problem.
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Aug 8, 2019 04:55
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Andrast posted:Blaming Valve for the plight of the indie dev is kind of misplaced anyway. There are just so many loving indie games these days that it's impossible to feature them all properly. We could always go back to them barely letting anyone on the platform that they used to decry as killing indie games I guess?
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Aug 8, 2019 06:30
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I remember when Recettear wasn't able to make it onto Steam until they had already managed to get onto whatever that old Stardock storefront was called. It's always going to be a balancing act between not letting on interesting indies and letting on trash, and I seriously don't think there's a real middle ground. Once you add any friction at all to the process, it's going to seriously slow down approval for anything indie. Like, how often does EGS actually add new games?
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Aug 8, 2019 09:21
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The nice thing is that there’s already threads on this very forum burning themselves into a rage if you have anything negative to say about the lolbertarian owned EGS from supposedly progressive people
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Aug 8, 2019 10:15
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I'm not even sure what people are talking about Steam issues here, in this thread. Surely there is another thread about Steam for that? Personally, I think Steam's problems with discoverability is overrated. Yes, most small indie games won't appear on the front page, and no, they won't turn a profit. That's a normal consequence of releasing 8900 games a year. Even if we are cynical and say that 1/3 of the total are asset-flips and other garbage that shouldn't be in Steam in the first place, you still would have 5900 games a year. Forget about discoverability, PC gaming by itself isn't big enough to make half of them profitable.
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Aug 8, 2019 10:20
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Gotta be real this ooblets game looks like rear end
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Aug 8, 2019 13:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLAi_cmly6Q&t=516s
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Aug 8, 2019 14:24
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The REAL Goobusters posted:Gotta be real this ooblets game looks like rear end The game was clearly not aimed at me, but I found even just footage of it hard to watch. The way the characters moved around and the way every single NPC talked like a weird hyper-twee caricature was unsettling. My wife thought it was cute but when she saw the whole controversy she lost interest.
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Aug 8, 2019 14:33
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Turin Turambar posted:I'm not even sure what people are talking about Steam issues here, in this thread. Surely there is another thread about Steam for that? Because Steam and EGS are inextricably linked, with time showing that EGS "exclusives" really meant "not on Steam" rather than broadly exclusive as people thought in the beginning. The worst EGS exclusive blowups are the ones relating to games that had some kind of presence on Steam or promised Steam keys before going exclusive. Heck, did you miss the last great twist of the Ooblets drama: sites publishing the nuclear take that it's somehow Valve's fault that this all happened, it's Valve's fault that the Ooblet devs are getting harassed by chuds and that they WANT it this way? EGS stuff shows up in the Steam thread because it also doubles as the general games chat thread in a lot of people's minds. Steam stuff shows up here because often EGS news is directly or indirectly linked to Steam & Valve. It is what it is.
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Aug 8, 2019 16:05
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Off the top of my head, the biggest "gently caress you" from developers moving over to EGS, were Metro Exodus because it was weeks before the official launch, and then Shemue III becaues the Kickstarter page was originally promising a Steam key, and then the devs quietly took that out just before announcing exclusivity on EGS.
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Aug 8, 2019 16:33
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I said come in! posted:Saying Valve is to blame is a bad take, but I think it's fair to criticize Valve for just standing around and doing nothing about this. They won't even release a statement explaining why their storefront is the better option for developers. What's that old saying again, "Never interfere with an enemy that's destroying himself"? Like poo poo, it's getting to the point where announcing a PC game ISN'T exclusive to Epic Games Store is becoming a big marketing point.
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Aug 8, 2019 17:15
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https://www.patreon.com/posts/28984879 lol, they're treating this like one of the far too many mass shootings in the US. Send your thoughts and prayers to these poor victims.
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Aug 8, 2019 17:57
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