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JerryLee posted:What you're saying here and what they said are both true, is the thing. There were several egregious mistake cards in Urza block, out of hundreds of cards, which is obviously still several more than acceptable and is why they were called on the carpet, but once they banned all the horrible combos there was still a Standard (Type 2) format that was quite playable for another year and a half or so until it rotated out. The thing is though it only takes one or two utterly broken or lovely cards to make a fornat bad. See JtMS, that X burn Miracle whose name I am blanking on, Skullclamp, Jitte, Energy, as examples of cards or mechanics that made their standard formats suck. Urza Block had way more of those cards.
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Aug 12, 2019 14:30
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jassi007 posted:It is in fact not a winning idea. You put their forests into play while you never advance your mana base and eventually they just wurmcoil or Karn you and then you lose after doing nothing of value for a few turns. little munchkin posted:it's actually a really good example because post-horizons the best gameplan jund has against tron is still "put a single ghost quarter in your sideboard and hope to get lucky" Are people just forgetting that Assassins Trophy is A Thing?
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Aug 12, 2019 15:09
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AlternateNu posted:Are people just forgetting that Assassins Trophy is A Thing? Jund did not get a faster clock to go with either of these so the calculus has not fundamentally changed
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Aug 12, 2019 15:24
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AlternateNu posted:Are people just forgetting that Assassins Trophy is A Thing? Assassins trophy is great. Assassin trophy helps delay things against tron. I think the big issue is that tron's gameplan is just very strong against jund's gameplan and making your sideboard 75% tron hate isn't worth the space. Might as well leave the matchup the way it is.
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Aug 12, 2019 15:31
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Sickening posted:Assassins trophy is great. Assassin trophy helps delay things against tron. I think the big issue is that tron's gameplan is just very strong against jund's gameplan and making your sideboard 75% tron hate isn't worth the space. Might as well leave the matchup the way it is. Agree. Trophy makes the matchup probably 30/70 where it was like 10/90 in Tron's favor. Jund could have a favorable matchup if there was a creature that could disrupt their mana in some way while also giving you a clock. Basically if Tarmogoyf and Damping Sphere had a baby that'd probably do the trick. Or a creature that was like XX, discard a card: destroy target non-basic land. If i could swing and throw cards away to blow up lands that'd be decent. The problem with Tron is when it can get to 6 or 7 lands eventually while you durdle around. You need a fast clock to pair with disruption or be super loving fast. The decks that traditionally ruin Tron are infect and mono-red / burn decks because they get in faster than Karn or Wurmcoil can come down to do their bullshit. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 15:38
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Retromancer posted:Emrakul was gone in the first round of bannings that standard and the Marvel deck got even better. that's fair, aetherworks marvel isn't that important a card to have for historic jassi007 posted:Agree. Trophy makes the matchup probably 30/70 where it was like 10/90 in Tron's favor. Jund could have a favorable matchup if there was a creature that could disrupt their mana in some way while also giving you a clock. Basically if Tarmogoyf and Damping Sphere had a baby that'd probably do the trick. Or a creature that was like XX, discard a card: destroy target non-basic land. If i could swing and throw cards away to blow up lands that'd be decent. Yeah, trophy slows them down, but when they topdeck ugin, wurmcoil, ulamog and karn while you topdeck thoughtseize and bolt, you'll never win those long games.
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Aug 12, 2019 15:54
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I know no one is saying Tron should be banned just this second, but Jund having a like 53% winrate now indicates to me that the format always needs decks that can go over the top. Jund now has access to a Stony silence effect, a tribal wrath-like effect in Plague Engineer (that also effectively removes Lingering Souls from being a threat to Jund), a small creature pinger, mana fixer, and mana ensurer in W6, and a horizon land. Imagine the format without Tron, lol.
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Aug 12, 2019 15:58
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I'm more upset that we don't get to play the good vehicles in a format that also has a clean answer for them in spyglass.
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Aug 12, 2019 15:58
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Retromancer posted:I'm more upset that we don't get to play the good vehicles in a format that also has a clean answer for them in spyglass. Let me tell you the story of equipment and it’s struggles friend
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Aug 12, 2019 16:15
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ShaneB posted:I know no one is saying Tron should be banned just this second, but Jund having a like 53% winrate now indicates to me that the format always needs decks that can go over the top. Jund now has access to a Stony silence effect, a tribal wrath-like effect in Plague Engineer (that also effectively removes Lingering Souls from being a threat to Jund), a small creature pinger, mana fixer, and mana ensurer in W6, and a horizon land. Imagine the format without Tron, lol. lionel-hutz-rainbow.jpg
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Aug 12, 2019 16:20
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Tubgoat posted:Oh hey, they took black out of Jund, replaced it with burn and made that deck more or less that I want Wrenn for. I like some of the spice in this top 8.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:11
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:I feel like these are the words of someone who didn't play during Urza block Urza block was a net good for Magic. It just sucked until the bans. I think MH will be once the same, once they stop missing. Hogaak is a novel, interesting, and exciting design... if they just banned the drat thing instead of Bridge.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:18
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Tubgoat posted:Oh hey, they took black out of Jund, replaced it with burn and made that deck more or less that I want Wrenn for. That Martyr-Proc style deck makes me really want to try it out now. Although it's weird that they'd run Mind Stone over Arcum Astrolabe when they're running all snow covered plains.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:20
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Urza block was a net good for Magic. Urza block led to Masques block so no it was not a net good.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:22
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InterrupterJones posted:That Martyr-Proc style deck makes me really want to try it out now. Although it's weird that they'd run Mind Stone over Arcum Astrolabe when they're running all snow covered plains. Those two cards don't do the same thing at all.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:23
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smertrioslol posted:I like some of the spice in this top 8. fyi it's a list of 5-0 decks from mtgo leagues, not the top 8 of a competitive tournament
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Aug 12, 2019 18:28
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Lone Goat posted:Those two cards don't do the same thing at all. Unless I'm missing something - which I might be - I don't know why the mana accel effect is more important than the card draw in a deck like that.
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Aug 12, 2019 18:29
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I dunno what y'all are complaining about https://twitter.com/Boss_MTG/status/1160959857513701376?s=19
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Aug 12, 2019 18:30
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InterrupterJones posted:Unless I'm missing something - which I might be - I don't know why the mana accel effect is more important than the card draw in a deck like that. mind stone accelerates your mana, arcum's astrolabe fixes it. the card draw is about making them playable rather than the point. you run mind stone if you want to cast big things sooner, arcum's astrolabe if you want to play a lot of colors and/or play tron
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Aug 12, 2019 18:31
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Elyv posted:I dunno what y'all are complaining about ThIs Is WhAt MoDeRN PlAyErS DeSerVE There Panzeh, I posted it so you don’t have to
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Aug 12, 2019 18:36
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Elyv posted:I dunno what y'all are complaining about How many faithless lootings were there tho
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Aug 12, 2019 18:59
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mandatory lesbian posted:How many faithless lootings were there tho Only 24, so a little below expectation.
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Aug 12, 2019 19:06
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I think at "glowspore value-town" he had run out of different ways to put it.
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Aug 12, 2019 19:14
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Urza block was a net good for Magic. What made it a net good?
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Aug 12, 2019 19:35
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:The thing is though it only takes one or two utterly broken or lovely cards to make a fornat bad. See JtMS, that X burn Miracle whose name I am blanking on, Skullclamp, Jitte, Energy, as examples of cards or mechanics that made their standard formats suck. Literally nobody is arguing that Urza's Block didn't have several cards that were lovely and made the format bad before they were banned, though? I'm not sure who or what you're arguing against here. The cards you're listing, if anything, make Urza's Block look better because there was no card in Urza block (again, post-bannings) that distorted the format heavily around one or two cards/decks the way some of those did. You might be able to argue that Masticore came close, I suppose. jassi007 posted:Or a creature that was like XX, discard a card: destroy target non-basic land. It's tragically funny that you're proposing a card that is almost strictly worse than Dwarven Miner (and its Blasting cousin) and it still probably couldn't get printed today JerryLee fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Aug 12, 2019 |
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Aug 12, 2019 19:39
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Did the CFB ama on judgeapps ever get mirrored anywhere?
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Aug 12, 2019 19:48
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JerryLee posted:
Well, I'd like it to be a bit better than a 1/2 and not have to tap to blow up a land. Ideally it would be both a beater and a land nuker. Say a 3/1 or 4/1 that would force them to run some interaction.
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Aug 12, 2019 19:56
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ItBreathes posted:Did the CFB ama on judgeapps ever get mirrored anywhere? Judgecast has an almost 3 hour podcast on it out today that I'll try to listen to some time tomorrow and report on how it's the best idea ever actualy,,,
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Aug 12, 2019 19:56
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jassi007 posted:Well, I'd like it to be a bit better than a 1/2 and not have to tap to blow up a land. Ideally it would be both a beater and a land nuker. Say a 3/1 or 4/1 that would force them to run some interaction. I want a Detritivore that suspends for less mana Interaction is for chumps
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Aug 12, 2019 20:18
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Adlai Stevenson posted:I want a Detritivore that suspends for less mana glancing at forums while at work and kept seeing this as “Detroitivore”
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Aug 12, 2019 20:29
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JerryLee posted:Literally nobody is arguing that Urza's Block didn't have several cards that were lovely and made the format bad before they were banned, though? I'm not sure who or what you're arguing against here. I'm trying to get someone to tell me what made Urza block "good" after the bans, like people were saying.
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Aug 12, 2019 20:36
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Reprint Avalanche Riders, except instead of Echo, it blinks on your opponents' upkeep
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Aug 12, 2019 20:38
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Silhouette posted:Reprint Avalanche Riders, except instead of Echo, it has convoke and delve 
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Aug 12, 2019 20:45
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And you can cast it form the graveyard.
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Aug 12, 2019 20:46
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TheKingofSprings posted:ThIs Is WhAt MoDeRN PlAyErS DeSerVE You got me pretty good.
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Aug 12, 2019 20:48
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Voyager I posted:And you can cast it form the graveyard. whoops, i forgot in my haste also make it a zombie just in case
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Aug 12, 2019 20:50
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Just print Fulminator Mage with delve and convoke that you can cast from the graveyard..
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Aug 12, 2019 20:53
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:I'm trying to get someone to tell me what made Urza block "good" after the bans, like people were saying. My favorite Urza block trivia: What was the theme of Urza block? If you said artifacts, you're wrong! It's enchantments. The block has 68 artifacts (in the ballpark of Mirage's 70 and Tempest's 62) but 159 enchantments (for reference, Theros has 156)
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Aug 12, 2019 20:53
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:What made it a net good? Six million cool-rear end designs, Urza's Saga had Gamble, Goblin Lackey, Phyrexian Tower, Argothian Enchantress, Attunement, Exploration, Morphling, Gilded Drake, Greater Good, Smoke Stacks, and Abundance, among others. And that's just Saga rares. And it was the first time they really revved the engine in terms of power which is a valuable learning moment, while over two decades later I still get to play with Frantic Search in high-powered formats. Also they debuted Cycling and Cycling should be loving evergreen.
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Aug 12, 2019 20:54
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:The thing is though it only takes one or two utterly broken or lovely cards to make a fornat bad. See JtMS, that X burn Miracle whose name I am blanking on, Skullclamp, Jitte, Energy, as examples of cards or mechanics that made their standard formats suck. ??? Bonfire of the Damned was an insanely efficient spell but it's one of the silliest cards to point to as an example that "ruined" its standard. INN-RTR standard was one of the most diverse standards in recent memory, and it had plenty of powerful poo poo to do as well! Hell, Bonfire wasn't even close to the bogeyman of that format!
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Aug 12, 2019 21:07
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