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They nearly used it for Stargazer but changed their minds and made a new model instead. Not sure why but I know the Ent-A filming model was incredibly hard to work with - it was twelve feet long and heavy as hell, while during the 90s even the six foot Galaxy model was considered too big (and they ended up going to the effort of making a new four foot one for season three to get around using it) They were definitely trying to avoid too many TOS references during the first few seasons of TNG, but I don't know if that factored in.
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Aug 13, 2019 17:02
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Minidust posted:In the 24th century the Enterprise-A is presumably still in one piece, displayed in some space museum right? Was there a specific reason they never showed it post-TUC, or did 90s TV producers just have a lot of restraint compared to now? They were originally going to use a Constitution-refit model for The Battle! The reason that the Stargazer is a Constellation-class starship is because Constellation sounds close enough to Constitution that it's not as noticeable a difference on the lips when they overdubbed the line in The Battle. I seem to recall seeing a bit of production art where the art nerds tried to present a technical justification for how the ship could be "on fire" while not being destroyed - something along the lines of the big transfer pipe running from Main Engineering up to the impulse deflection crystal getting ruptured. At some point during production it was decided to instead roll up a new model. I've never seen it explicitly stated by anyone involved in the show's production, but I strongly suspect that TNG's go-to effects house for model opticals, Image G, simply wasn't prepared (or particularly willing) to wrestle with the big eight-foot movie Enterprise model. The six-foot Enterprise-D was already such a challenge for them to wrangle that it inhibited what they were able to do with it - this is why the four-foot model was built in season 3 - and that was a practically brand-new model built by guys who had years of experience building and working with movie models! The 8 foot Enterprise model, on the other hand, was already notorious early in its life for being a pain in the rear end to work with. Given that when confronted by a short in the Miranda/Reliant's rollbar, they basically just yanked the rollbar off and never put it back on, I'm not sure they'd have really had the time to fight through any electrical issues on the old Enterprise. There were supposedly at least a couple of other instances later in the show where the writers tried to push for bringing a Constitution-class back in (pretty sure Cause and Effect), although even without the money/optical issue, I suspect that by season 3 the management regime would have preferred to avoid that sort of 'crossover' anyway. All that said, even as much as I love the movie model, I do think going with a new model for Stargazer was the right decision. Remember, when The Battle came out, Stargazer was only the sixth Federation starship type ever seen! e:f,b (although the movie model was "only" eight feet long)
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Aug 13, 2019 17:14
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Hipster_Doofus posted:They did? Doubly so, since Vulcans are also weirdly lacking in development compared to Klingons. You'd think with two major races sharing a common history they'd get twice as much development, but instead the two put together still don't match the Klingons. I wonder if their importance made writers keep not feeling confident enough to mess with them, or if Vulcan stoicism made the races less fun to play with. When Cardassians showed up, they seemed a lot like the Romulans at first, tense peace, aggressive race secretly preparing for another war, Mark Alaimo, later we see they've got a similarly fascist government, and then the next Star Trek show is all about dealing with them while the Romulans and their neutral zone are distant fifth in the major players of space politics.
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Aug 13, 2019 17:37
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Enterprise put in a lot of work towards fleshing out Vulcan society to be fair and course correcting their over-arrogance into an interesting cultural shift
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Aug 13, 2019 17:48
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Romulans were also portrayed from moment one as deeply secretive and xenophobic, so outside of an episode like Unification we don't get a lot of chance to see their culture.
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Aug 13, 2019 17:54
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:They were originally going to use a Constitution-refit model for The Battle! The reason that the Stargazer is a Constellation-class starship is because Constellation sounds close enough to Constitution that it's not as noticeable a difference on the lips when they overdubbed the line in The Battle. I seem to recall seeing a bit of production art where the art nerds tried to present a technical justification for how the ship could be "on fire" while not being destroyed - something along the lines of the big transfer pipe running from Main Engineering up to the impulse deflection crystal getting ruptured. Even if it was just leaking plasma it'd cut the lift shaft at best and set off the torpedo magazine at worst. And that pipe ("vertical intermix") is about half of what TNG started calling the warp core, with the impulse engines (and phasers) being powered directly by the plasma it creates. So basically, no engines or weapons and also the neck is melting. I think that'd be an easy canon explanation for the vanishing refits, it's a beautiful but incredibly flawed and vulnerable ship.
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Aug 13, 2019 18:33
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If I remember right the concept was that the plasma leaked and basically engulfed a bunch of corridors in fire, or something like that. As for vulnerable, I mean hell, the Ent-D takes a hit to the nacelle and that somehow winds up detonating the reactor core. Or otherwise gets beat up enough that the reactor starts melting down or something and explodes. Meanwhile in TWOK the ship takes a direct hit to the conduit running from the reactor to the nacelles and successfully SCRAMs. (this is all ridiculous anyway because turning off the reactor should be as simple as turning off the fuel injectors) As for retirement, I figured the ship was crew-intensive and/or maintenance-intensive, and squeezed out on both ends; for big heavy cruiser tasks the Excelsiors were coming online, and the Mirandas and Constellations can pick up the routine tasks that don't need a boatload of different specialists and a high-strung reactor core along for the ride.
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Aug 13, 2019 19:09
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One of the little things the effects team did right is when the Odyssey exploded: Almost immediately after the Jem'Hadar ship impacts the neck, there's an explosion on the lower decks - right where the antimatter containment pods are. It's likely something you'd not notice unless you're a supernerd like me but hey, here we are. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:(this is all ridiculous anyway because turning off the reactor should be as simple as turning off the fuel injectors) Even in large diesel engines you can't just turn the fuel off suddenly after they've been operating at max load because it'll overheat the cylinders and can cause metal to fly everywhere and injure people. Now imagine the diesel - which doesn't even burn at standard pressures - is a matter/antimatter reaction.
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Aug 13, 2019 19:17
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Star Trek is whole again. https://twitter.com/NBCNightlyNews/status/1161340752330416128
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Aug 13, 2019 19:17
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Zurui posted:One of the little things the effects team did right is when the Odyssey exploded: Luckily they just crash landed safely in the Lost Kingdom and Captain Keogh had to collect 10 Power Moons to proceed to New Donk City.
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Aug 13, 2019 19:31
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Can we talk about how incredibly loving ugly the 4-foot model was compared to the 6-ft model? I understand the practical reason behind the switch, but what were they thinking with that sculpt? It looks like it's made of Legos for chrissakes.
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Aug 13, 2019 19:58
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R.I.P Barbara March, aka Lursa of the Duras sisters.
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Aug 13, 2019 20:02
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SDTV. Most of the detailing on the 6ft really wasn't visible on the TVs at the time so they exaggerated it.
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Aug 13, 2019 20:04
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Thom12255 posted:Star Trek is whole again. If this doesn't result in an eventual HD release of DS9 (and Voyager too I guess...) Then fuuuuu-
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Aug 13, 2019 20:08
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You know, it just occurred to me... If they're making Trek again (in spades, no less), and they want to make it really popular again, they should be pushing DS9 really hard. Remaster it and loving put it out there. You don't have to worry now about it being too dark or "not trek." Run ads (say, at the end of episodes of STD, STP, everything, even Short Treks. Say something like "You know TNG, now experience the series that introduced long-form storytelling to trek (in thrilling, full color HD)." (Obviously not in so many words, just get that point across.) And hell, put it on All Access exclusively, and bam there's your subscribers. I sure as hell would pay for it for hd ds9, who here wouldn't? And don't release it all at once. Get s1 out there post haste and then get to work on s2.
Hipster_Doofus fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Aug 13, 2019 |
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Aug 13, 2019 20:28
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Zurui posted:Even in large diesel engines you can't just turn the fuel off suddenly after they've been operating at max load because it'll overheat the cylinders and can cause metal to fly everywhere and injure people. Now imagine the diesel - which doesn't even burn at standard pressures - is a matter/antimatter reaction. Okay, so just turn off the antimatter injectors and flood the reaction chamber with cold deuterium. Even lacking that though, wrecking the reactor (and possibly the engineering decks) should still be preferable to an uncontrolled antimatter reaction that takes out the entire ship.
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Aug 13, 2019 20:31
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DS9 is weird and for turbonerds
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Aug 13, 2019 20:48
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Okay, so just turn off the antimatter injectors and flood the reaction chamber with cold deuterium. A sudden shutdown of the M/AMA is an uncontrolled antimatter reaction.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:02
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Hipster_Doofus posted:You know, it just occurred to me... If they're making Trek again (in spades, no less), and they want to make it really popular again, they should be pushing DS9 really hard. Remaster it and loving put it out there. You don't have to worry now about it being too dark or "not trek." Run ads (say, at the end of episodes of STD, STP, everything, even Short Treks. Say something like "You know TNG, now experience the series that introduced long-form storytelling to trek (in thrilling, full color HD)." (Obviously not in so many words, just get that point across.) And hell, put it on All Access exclusively, and bam there's your subscribers. I sure as hell would pay for it for hd ds9, who here wouldn't? And don't release it all at once. Get s1 out there post haste and then get to work on s2. Honestly Voyager should get a remaster too just based on how many people out there like it, I would have expected to see that first before DS9 in HD
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Aug 13, 2019 22:07
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They’d probably make more money on a Voyager HD release too. DS9 fans are loud and loyal, but there’s only like two dozen of us compared to the scores and scores of people who love Voyager.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:09
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AlBorlantern Corps posted:R.I.P Barbara March, aka Lursa of the Duras sisters.  RAAAAAAAAOOOOOOORRRGGH
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Aug 13, 2019 22:16
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Big Mean Jerk posted:They’d probably make more money on a Voyager HD release too. DS9 fans are loud and loyal, but there’s only like two dozen of us compared to the scores and scores of people who love Voyager. I have no idea what the numbers look like but hopefully What We Left Behind does well enough to convince someone important that there's enough interest
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Aug 13, 2019 22:22
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If B5 has to rot in SD hell forever then DS9 can do the same.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:38
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Zurui posted:A sudden shutdown of the M/AMA is an uncontrolled antimatter reaction. Yeah but the reaction's stopping because you stopped feeding reactants, not because the reactor chamber has blown apart.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:39
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From having just looked into the background of the CBS/Viacom thing: • CBS creates a subsidiary, Viacom • Viacom is spun off into an independent company • Viacom buys CBS (by buying its parent company) • Viacom renames itself CBS, and creates a new company called, er, Viacom. (Both own Star Trek, but aren't allowed to play nice with each other, even though they're owned by the same parent company) • CBS and Viacom merge again to become ViacomCBS Seems a hell of a long-winded way to end up back where you started. Still, I'm sure some shareholders and executives and lawyers became extremely rich out of the whole process.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:46
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Zurui posted:One of the little things the effects team did right is when the Odyssey exploded: Probably at the time this was made, this was really good looking, but staring at it, the impact and explosion is just not convincing looking at all. It looks like the enterprise is not actually damaged at all, and the explosion and where it appears is completely random and animated in a weird way as to not look natural.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:57
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:If B5 has to rot in SD hell forever then DS9 can do the same. Look, no one here is opposed to B5, SeaQuest, and Sliders going HD along with DS9.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:59
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Tighclops posted:Honestly Voyager should get a remaster too just based on how many people out there like it, I would have expected to see that first before DS9 in HD True they should but part of my point was (not that I actually stated it) that they could make some of the money they didn't make when it was new.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:01
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Lots of sci-fi shows from the 90s I would love to see get updated visually, but some of them are in copyright limbo, and were shot in such a way as to make that impossible, or very expensive.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:01
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Wanna see Space: 1999 in hd.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:02
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Who owns Earth: Final Conflict now?
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Aug 13, 2019 23:02
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I said come in! posted:Probably at the time this was made, this was really good looking, but staring at it, the impact and explosion is just not convincing looking at all. It looks like the enterprise is not actually damaged at all, and the explosion and where it appears is completely random and animated in a weird way as to not look natural. I'm pretty sure that's either a fan-made render or something from the DS9 doc. This is the original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fm7pPzYbNwY&t=147s Still not great, but slightly less static.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:03
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I prefer the original effect on the Odyssey. Yeah there probably would be a giant explosion or something but that brief shot of just a giant hole covered in fire where the warp core should be is pretty effective.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:14
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 : "Let me get this straight. Trans-dimensional aliens have mistaken your Captain Proton simulation for reality." : "Yes ma'am.": "And now an armed conflict has broken out between these aliens and Chaotica's holographic army.": "Yes ma'am. His army of evil."The deadpan, slightly depressed delivery of "his army of evil" is the funniest god drat thing.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:17
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Voyager is at its best when it does comedy. When the Doctor programs himself the flu to better learn what his patients go through, he demonstrates blowing his nose to Kes: "Holographic tissue paper for the holographic runny nose. Don't offer them to patients."
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Aug 13, 2019 23:30
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Thom12255 posted:Star Trek is whole again. Does this mean we can finally put to bed this stupid “40% different” conspiracy theory about Discovery?
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Aug 13, 2019 23:30
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Wheezle posted:Does this mean we can finally put to bed this stupid “40% different” conspiracy theory about Discovery? Lol no, we had people in this very thread parroting it even after it was disproven.
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Aug 13, 2019 23:33
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The Bloop posted:Look, no one here is opposed to B5, SeaQuest, and Sliders going HD along with DS9. seaQuest DSV already has a BluRay release! 
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Aug 13, 2019 23:53
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Can we talk about how incredibly loving ugly the 4-foot model was compared to the 6-ft model? I understand the practical reason behind the switch, but what were they thinking with that sculpt? Of course Supernerd Bernd has a whole article on this. I really liked the original idea for an observation hallway sort of thing around the thrusters and sensor packages on the rim. Instead we got Ten-Forward... which has always been right under Picards quarters??? That always seemed weird to me. And yes, the 4 foot model looks like poo poo. It's why suddenly the D looked so gorgeous for Generations-- they were using the 6 foot model again (plus excellent lighting).
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Aug 14, 2019 00:02
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I said come in! posted:Probably at the time this was made, this was really good looking, but staring at it, the impact and explosion is just not convincing looking at all. It looks like the enterprise is not actually damaged at all, and the explosion and where it appears is completely random and animated in a weird way as to not look natural. Well it wasn't...
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Aug 14, 2019 00:24
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