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Gatts posted:So the Bear Suit has to be a reference to Wicker Man The entire movie was basically just a remake of TWM.
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Aug 9, 2019 11:04
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Captain Scandinaiva posted:I saw this a couple of days ago. I liked it, though I didn't find it very scary nor all that disturbing (until the end). I did keep me thinking. his brother volunteered.
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Aug 9, 2019 16:51
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A lot of good discussion so far, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned: In the scene in which Josh gets killed, did anyone else think that Ruben was raping Josh's body after he was struck? If I remember correctly, we see Josh with the book, there's a cut to Ruben lying in bed, then we see Ulf come in wearing Mark's face, he strikes Josh, and then there's that long shot of Josh lying on the ground. Someone here wrote that he's convulsing in that shot, but his movements looked involuntary to me, and they coincided with Ruben's grunts. Also pretty funny that out of the 6 foreigners present for the festival, only one is played by an American actor.
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Aug 10, 2019 12:03
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MeinPanzer posted:A lot of good discussion so far, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned: I think it's pretty clear he was just struggling to move the body. Humans are heavy!
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Aug 10, 2019 16:10
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Sometimes when people suffer concussions they make a strange snoring sound. I think that's what it was.
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Aug 11, 2019 02:43
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plz dont pull out posted:Sometimes when people suffer concussions they make a strange snoring sound. I think that's what it was. Doesn't even have to be a concussion. Can happen just about any time someone passes out, for a multitude for reasons.
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Aug 11, 2019 06:19
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MeinPanzer posted:A lot of good discussion so far, but one thing I haven't seen mentioned: it's a reference to a similar scene in texas chainsaw massacre so they're supposed to be convulsions.
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Aug 11, 2019 15:24
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On the other hand, Aster's debut short is basically all about how darkly hilarious he finds assrape, so it'd be on brand.
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Aug 12, 2019 19:52
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:It kind of weirds me out how Christian's malevolence seems to fly over so many people's heads ITT. He's the actual monster of the movie; at least the cultists (mostly) don't know any better. Owlofcreamcheese posted:I mean, he was clearly unambiguously raped in any standard if you took this movie to trial court. But in horror movie logic and language a guy starting the movie wishing he was sleeping with other girl ending the movie sleeping with other girls, but in a dark cult ceremony is supposed to form a story arc and not be two unrelated events. He got exactly what he wanted, but dark and twisted. Since he's in a narrative fictional story. If this was just an arbitrary set of real events then it's unconnected and he was just regular raped since the cult wouldn't know he had wanted to go to sweden and sleep with other women. Christian is not a monster, he's just a stupid dick. I would argue that he doesn't deserve to be paralyzed and burned alive. But that's not the point; this is a horror movie. The deaths are all "poetic justice" in some way but are obviously not justice in any actual ethical sense. Serious Party Gods posted:I read the wiki on the "Blood Eagle" - And it seems like this method of execution was in retaliation for the "murder of a father". Maybe Connie/Simon's baying and pleading with the "second jumper" distracted him and the community viewed it as causing him an unnecessarily murderous death... instead of dying with honor.
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Aug 12, 2019 21:05
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Halloween Jack posted:Christian is not a monster, he's just a stupid dick. I would argue that he doesn't deserve to be paralyzed and burned alive. But that's not the point; this is a horror movie. The deaths are all "poetic justice" in some way but are obviously not justice in any actual ethical sense. I agree with the second point re: "poetic justice", etc. I bet to differ on the first. I don't know at what point one goes from "stupid dick" to "monster" and perhaps he doesn't meet that criteria, but I feel pretty comfortable believing had he lived a long life Christian would have spent it dicking people over (both intentionally and not) and contributing nothing positive to society whatsoever.
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Aug 12, 2019 21:36
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Just saw Son of Rambow for the first time and it blew my mind when I realized one of the little kids was the rear end in a top hat friend who pissed on the corpse tree.
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Aug 12, 2019 23:04
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I mean, Christian's a pretty small time predator next to Pelle.
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Aug 12, 2019 23:42
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Last week my local indy theater showed a screening of the "40th Anniversary Final Cut" of the The Wicker Manand at least compared to the one I saw on a grainy DVD that was one of those "5000 MOVIES ON ONE DISC" joints. They cut several scenes out of the early part of the film (like almost everything that happens before the island), and moved some things around, to at least give you a chance at maybe sympathizing with Howie.
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Aug 12, 2019 23:45
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:On the other hand, Aster's debut short is basically all about how darkly hilarious he finds assrape, so it'd be on brand. it's so weird how i didn't see that ever come up when hereditary was blowing up.
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Aug 13, 2019 00:19
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Since this movie is now out of theatres for the most part I guess it's not necessary to spoiler anything any more...Crimpolioni posted:I mean, Christian's a pretty small time predator next to Pelle. It strikes me that this is movie is actually a profound reflection of the Me Too movement and discussions about punishment in the entertainment industry. Most of the characters are different gradations of horror movie stereotypes -- the people who think they can just leave; the comic relief; the inquisitive scientist -- who commit standard horror movie sins: thinking they can just walk away from the situation they've put themselves in; being horny; and accessing forbidden knowledge. All nuance in their situations is effaced; by horror movie logic, they all deserve to die, it's just a matter of how. The cult then experiences a sort of re-birth and catharsis through these sacrifices. Dani and Christian are different, of course, and are the only really fleshed-out characters, but from the beginning the movie is set up to present their relationship as a struggle, prompting the audience to consider who will win in the end. The movie basically presents Christian's death as ultimately necessary for Dani to be able to move on from her trauma. The question then becomes, are Christian's transgressions significant enough within the logic of the horror movie to warrant his death? Aster has, I think, made the situation as grey and complex as possible with Christian's actions and the sex ritual to emphasize this point. In the case of the latter in particular, Dani only sees Christian having sex through a keyhole, and is not aware of the other factors involved in his actions. As has been hashed out in this thread, when considered carefully it becomes clear that Christian did not consent, but he is nonetheless literally made into the beast so that he can be sacrificed with the maximum symbolic force. Please consider what I say here carefully, because I am strongly pro-Me Too: to a certain extent, Me Too is similar to Hårga in the sense that it has become a decentralized, corporate entity that has shifted mores and has produced the punishment of offenders without much consideration for the degree of punishment necessary for their offences. The community is like the media, now actively searching for lascivious stories so that they can out predators and champion victims. I think that the one legitimate criticism of the movement, however, is that within the media realm punishment is meted out indiscriminately, and that nuance that is otherwise accounted for in the legal system -- between, say pressuring someone to have sex and rape -- is ignored in the rush to see the person punished (think of Aziz Ansari vs. Louis CK vs. Harvey Weinstein and the lengthy discussions relating to their offences in the Sexual Assault thread, for instance). Midsommar champions Dani but questions, I think, that impulse to rush to punishment to achieve catharsis, by highlighting the grey areas that are inevitably involved in these cases. Just as the horror movie metes out one punishment (death), however, the media only has one effective punishment (banishment from the entertainment industry). In the movie there is even the delicious reversal that the usual defence trotted out for offenders, that "it was different there/back then, so you can't judge their actions the same way," is used to justify the punishment of the offenders here, since "this is just how their society operates."
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Aug 13, 2019 07:58
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I brought up Aziz earlier because Midsommar feels like a biting comment on that situation.
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Aug 13, 2019 14:53
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You're right about #MeToo, but what this has to do with Midsommar is completely beyond my ken. I feel like I could watch a random DVD on my shelf and write an equally cogent paragraph about how it's an allegory for #MeToo.
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Aug 13, 2019 15:23
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I just think it's telling that the most contentious aspects of the movie aren't how to explain the mysterious and sinister goings on that occur out of view, the symbolism of the rituals, etc., but whether Christian is a selfish rear end in a top hat to Dani or just a schlub, and whether he wanted to have sex with that girl or was raped. These are exactly the central concerns of most discussions surrounding the #MeToo scandals. As has been noted in this thread and as I've noticed reading numerous takes, the reception of the main relationship has been pretty strongly divided. Many female and feminist critics have received the film totally differently from male critics, with the former emphasizing the emotional abuse Dani experiences at the hands of Christian and the liberatory nature of her experience, and the latter emphasizing how unfair Christian's ultimate fate is. Just listen to this interviewer's own experience: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Za3Ao5diXhM&t=222s In its reception, this movie actually more closely resembles that short story Cat Person than it does other horror movies, and I think the #MeToo connection is really interesting in that respect.
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Aug 13, 2019 16:16
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Groovelord Neato posted:it's so weird how i didn't see that ever come up when hereditary was blowing up. i kinda gather that it's a fairly obscure short except among people who agree with Aster that incestuous assrape is loving hilarious, and people who really don't like Aster.
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Aug 13, 2019 19:28
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MeinPanzer posted:I just think it's telling that the most contentious aspects of the movie aren't how to explain the mysterious and sinister goings on that occur out of view, the symbolism of the rituals, etc., but whether Christian is a selfish rear end in a top hat to Dani or just a schlub, and whether he wanted to have sex with that girl or was raped. These are exactly the central concerns of most discussions surrounding the #MeToo scandals. I really think this is all more a reflection of the audience and the cultural growing pains of the moment. Yes meaning always comes from the viewer, etc. But I don't feel like the movie is steering in any particular direction over whether Christian 'deserves' his fate. It's a thing that happens. The movie presents us:
The rest is up to us. LORD OF BOOTY posted:i kinda gather that it's a fairly obscure short except among people who agree with Aster that incestuous assrape is loving hilarious, and people who really don't like Aster. If we're talking about The Strange Thing About the Johnsons, I don't recall any incestuous assrape joke (unless we're strictly talking about "oh my god this is so outrageous" type of humor). Unless Ari Aster has multiple short films about incestuous assrape.......
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Aug 13, 2019 19:51
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SidneyIsTheKiller posted:If we're talking about The Strange Thing About the Johnsons, I don't recall any incestuous assrape joke (unless we're strictly talking about "oh my god this is so outrageous" type of humor). Unless Ari Aster has multiple short films about incestuous assrape....... No, that's the one. It's not overtly jokey but it's also pretty clearly meant to be black comedy, and was apparently made primarily as an edgelord joke at the AFI's expense (Aster's explicit goal was to make the worst and most unpleasant thing he could with their grant). Like, dude seems like a loving cock and I really don't get how I'm seemingly the only person seeing this.
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Aug 13, 2019 20:59
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A director made a controversial and uncommercial film? On purpose? With grant money?
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Aug 13, 2019 21:06
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Halloween Jack posted:A director made a controversial and uncommercial film? On purpose? With grant money? I mean responding to the people trying to help you grow as a filmmaker by pranking them with a rape joke is not a fantastic look
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Aug 13, 2019 22:04
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I mean... it's a legit movie though? I know I didn't watch it and come away thinking I'd wasted my time or been had. I get that he was having some mischievous fun by pushing the limits as far as he could but it's not like it was just 30 minutes of goatse or something.
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Aug 13, 2019 22:24
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:No, that's the one. It's not overtly jokey but it's also pretty clearly meant to be black comedy, and was apparently made primarily as an edgelord joke at the AFI's expense (Aster's explicit goal was to make the worst and most unpleasant thing he could with their grant). How on earth did you see humor in that movie? I'm legitimately baffled where you're getting that it was a dark comedy. The entire situation is shown as loving horrifying and bleak and there's not a single solitary joke in the entire thing. Did you mix up films or something because there's no loving way you're talking about the right movie.
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Aug 14, 2019 13:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tALg8Nzd1c
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Aug 14, 2019 14:28
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:No, that's the one. It's not overtly jokey but it's also pretty clearly meant to be black comedy, and was apparently made primarily as an edgelord joke at the AFI's expense (Aster's explicit goal was to make the worst and most unpleasant thing he could with their grant). you're the first person i've seen refer to it as a comedy of any kind
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Aug 14, 2019 16:27
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My theater didn't get it until this month, so I'm way way late to the party, but I noticed that other than a couple of puzzled "what did Connie and Simon do wrong" remarks there hasn't been a lot about Ingmar's contribution to the festival. I think it's all be laid out in the brief backstory they get when all the newcomers are walking together - Ingmar says he and Connie were dating first and she abruptly cuts him off to say it was one date that she didn't know was a date, and then Simon immediately jokes that they asked Ingmar to officiate and scoffs loudly when someone falls for it. Ingmar and Pelle both have extremely mild and amiable interactions with their study abroad friends, but they are human and have interior lives and feelings, and both seem to have some animosity for their "great friends" made during pilgrimage. Pelle makes clear that he doesn't care for Christian's behavior towards Dani, and Mark is written as overbearingly offensive with no redeeming qualities. They would have needed 4 newbloods and 1 back up for the May Queen's choice, so with Ingmar's revenge on Connie and Simon and Pelle's tidying up of Christian and Mark, they would meet the minimum with Josh as a back-up sacrifice. One of the things that the people I saw it with had remarked on was along the lines of, how would any newblood ever be allowed to leave after what they had seen? But if it's Josh that witnesses all of this, that's the one person who you could trust to leave, because in the interest of completing his thesis and making his mark on the field, he would almost certainly preserve the anonymity of the community. Dani doesn't have to the be the May Queen, but having lost her entire family and become an orphan who couldn't finish her finals and is clearly drowning in grief, I don't think it's a stretch to see Pelle's interest in her joining them as being relatively innocent - he knows a place where everyone is family, even if your parents died horribly, and where collective empathy is the primary law. It's a bonus that it's fresh genes for the community, and his romantic interest in her and seeing how unhealthy her relationship is probably plays a factor in bringing Christian as one of his sacrifice contributions. The unclouded wisdom remark regarding Pelle...I see that less as being about using him to make another Oracle (although maybe that would factor in, who knows) and more about that being a cardinal virtue for Harga.
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Aug 19, 2019 08:54
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lol how is this the first time I’ve seen this thread mention the Johnsons’ movie. I just watched it  lmao at calling that a black comedy
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Aug 19, 2019 23:46
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Sounds like the director's cut is even better https://www.indiewire.com/2019/08/midsommar-directors-cut-details-ari-aster-review-1202166882/ I haven't seen it yet, and might just wait for the director's cut.
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Aug 21, 2019 19:09
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Hopefully that wait won't be too long, but as of now the festival screening is being treated as a one-time thing and there are no plans to release the DC to home media.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:01
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Watched Hereditary last night after seeing it discussed so much in this thread. Aside from the acting and they really excellent lighting I didn't find it to be very good. Some of the visuals were definitely creepy but the plot just didn't make much sense.
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Aug 21, 2019 23:41
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Midgetskydiver posted:Watched Hereditary last night after seeing it discussed so much in this thread. Aside from the acting and they really excellent lighting I didn't find it to be very good. Some of the visuals were definitely creepy but the plot just didn't make much sense.  The acting was loving incredible.
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Aug 22, 2019 01:47
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Midgetskydiver posted:Watched Hereditary last night after seeing it discussed so much in this thread. Aside from the acting and they really excellent lighting I didn't find it to be very good. Some of the visuals were definitely creepy but the plot just didn't make much sense. I don't know to tell you, it was my favorite movie of 2018. Toni Collette was one of the worst Oscar snubs of the last decade.
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Aug 22, 2019 03:15
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Midgetskydiver posted:Watched Hereditary last night after seeing it discussed so much in this thread. Aside from the acting and they really excellent lighting I didn't find it to be very good. Some of the visuals were definitely creepy but the plot just didn't make much sense. The plot is pretty straightforward.
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Aug 22, 2019 13:38
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Midgetskydiver posted:Watched Hereditary last night after seeing it discussed so much in this thread. Aside from the acting and they really excellent lighting I didn't find it to be very good. Some of the visuals were definitely creepy but the plot just didn't make much sense. How so?
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Aug 22, 2019 21:05
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Did the characters ever have a hope of getting out alive or were they only killed because they transgressed (peeing on the tree, taking photos of the book, trying to leave before the ceremony was over)? Like, had they just went along with everything (and not been part of the sacrifice lottery) would they have been fine?
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Aug 25, 2019 01:47
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Hot Legless Cats posted:I don't think it's a stretch to see Pelle's interest in her joining them as being relatively innocent - he knows a place where everyone is family, the olive garden?
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Aug 25, 2019 04:31
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R. Guyovich posted:the olive garden? Endless breadsticks, pubic hair no extra charge! Re: whether they could have gotten out, I think that most of them were chosen to die because they were annoying in their own right, and they were the sort of people who would vape constantly and pee on the ancestral tree.
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Aug 25, 2019 04:43
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BOAT SHOWBOAT posted:Did the characters ever have a hope of getting out alive or were they only killed because they transgressed (peeing on the tree, taking photos of the book, trying to leave before the ceremony was over)? I thought they were brought specifically to be sacrificed. Dani just kind of lucked out and became the May Queen.
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Aug 25, 2019 05:32
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