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Fast Luck posted:The same statistics used to tally up holodomor death totals, if applied to the US during the great "dust bowl" would return similar numbers, but for some reason it's only a holo-something when it happened in the USSR. uhh im starting to think you haven't read anything about either of these events. did the dust bowl kill millions or did the holodomor only kill tens of thousands? because they are not even remotely similar. and one wasn't deliberating made.
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Aug 14, 2019 04:04
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536 posted:uhh im starting to think you haven't read anything about either of these events. did the dust bowl kill millions or did the holodomor only kill tens of thousands? drat, cold of you to call out US cattle ranchers for overgrazing the Great Plains for over a century causing desertification and the dust bowl effect but I gotta respect a good take when I see it.
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Aug 14, 2019 04:13
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Imagine being a little piggy that doesn't get enough white supremacist propaganda in 2019, you want to hear the hits from the 20th century too
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Aug 14, 2019 04:23
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420 Gank Mid posted:drat, cold of you to call out US cattle ranchers for overgrazing the Great Plains for over a century causing desertification and the dust bowl effect but I gotta respect a good take when I see it. why didn't the local governments use cattle revenues to diversify their economies to allow for food self-sufficiency and/or other exports to fund food imports?
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Aug 14, 2019 04:41
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Fast Luck posted:the term holodomor was invented specifically to try to draw comparison between a famine in a socialist country and the Nazi's intentional plan to exterminate the jews. The same statistics used to tally up holodomor death totals, if applied to the US during the great "dust bowl" would return similar numbers, but for some reason it's only a holo-something when it happened in the USSR. I'm going to push back a little here- wasn't holodomor used before WW2 started? Not that it hasnt been since 536 posted:uhh im starting to think you haven't read anything about either of these events. did the dust bowl kill millions or did the holodomor only kill tens of thousands? Better examples include "literally anything the British did."
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Aug 14, 2019 04:46
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536 posted:uhh im starting to think you haven't read anything about either of these events. did the dust bowl kill millions or did the holodomor only kill tens of thousands? it's kind of a stretch to say the dust bowl was "deliberately made" just because of overgrazing my dude
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Aug 14, 2019 04:58
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the dust bowl killed 0 people because the problem in the US at the time was an overproduction of food
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Aug 14, 2019 05:02
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1C8C7op9LU
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Aug 14, 2019 05:07
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536 posted:uhh im starting to think you haven't read anything about either of these events. did the dust bowl kill millions or did the holodomor only kill tens of thousands? you would really benefit from reading that Late Victorian Holocausts book, or even just its wikipedia entry
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Aug 14, 2019 05:14
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grats to condiv on getting the psychotic bougie ghoul to melt down
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Aug 14, 2019 05:21
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World War Mammories posted:you would really benefit from reading that Late Victorian Holocausts book, or even just its wikipedia entry Yeah the stuff about the dust bowl is kinda dumb but LVH does a good job of explaining not only how the empire maliciously exacerbated- but not directly caused- the famines, and how it exemplifies the creation of the "developing world"
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Aug 14, 2019 06:16
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536 have you considered that you are not immune to propaganda
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Aug 14, 2019 07:23
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I haven't read it so I'm interested in what LVH is supposed to do as an argument here. Surely it can't just be whataboutism about imperialism also doing manmade famines. And from what I know, to an extent it should serve to condemn 30's famine in the USSR since that was also partially a result of breaking down existing communal structures in the name of surplus accumulation. Regarding Venezuela though, I get it, they're part of a system built to be inherently food (and otherwise) insecure so that they'd be dependent on exporting in order to import. So obvously they'd get hosed both when their exports collapse and when trade in either direction gets restricted by sanctions, and the latter was pretty explicitly implemented to prevent recovery from the former. For the USSR (and later China) a similar dependence relation was exploited: the international order did its best to force them to export grain in order to build up industrial know-how and generally made it hard to trade for things they needed when they needed them. And the death tolls of the famines have had to be constantly revised downward in serious studies, shaving off millions, even over ten million in the case of the Chinese one, although the final tally will almost certainly settle in the millions, caused in large part by disrupting the lifestyles of the peasantry right before a trying time in terms of weather and also prior to having built the kind of system that could adequately monitor the situation and make timely responses to it. The millions that have been shaved off are millions that could be made to appear while analyzing a lot of events by applying the same assumptions and methodology to them, which was what I thought the Dust Bowl example was referring to. StashAugustine posted:I'm going to push back a little here- wasn't holodomor used before WW2 started? Not that it hasnt been since If it was, well, in a Ukrainian, pre-Holocaust context the name is pretty innocuous and neutrally descriptive of such a terrible event from the perspective of the starving people. But the name was brought to foreign literature together with the famine-genocide conspiracy theory stripped from any other context simply because it sounded like an ominous genocide name. And favoring estimations with inflated numbers goes hand to hand with that: those numbers serve to make the events seem like something that is utterly incomparable to any naturally caused famine as well as conflict-exacerbated famines that tend to have many times higher death tolls, leading to the conclusion that it had to have been intentional, and combined with the numbers, that it was a genocide worse than the Nazis'. uncop has issued a correction as of 07:48 on Aug 14, 2019 |
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Aug 14, 2019 07:40
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guaido just “reestablished diplomatic relations” with Israel by designating another Venezuelan expat as their ambassador. Chavez cut relations after the ‘09 Gaza War. https://m.jpost.com/Diaspora/Guaido-to-designate-Rabbi-as-Venezuelan-Ambassador-to-Israel-598570 glad that with a country under siege he’s focusing on the important things; sating the US obsession with everyone being Israel’s best friend and losing control of the freshly stole Citco.
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Aug 14, 2019 14:59
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on the topic of "biased journalism" and "state propaganda" https://twitter.com/MaxBlumenthal/status/1161448461272780800
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Aug 14, 2019 15:26
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536 posted:Condiv, holy poo poo you are garbage, how long have you been rock hard jerkin it while you are playing detective trying to catch some person who fled a country in a lie? "Wikileaks is good now because of Venezuela" and "Wikileaks is bad now because of Russia" is baby brain thinking.
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Aug 14, 2019 15:31
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https://twitter.com/ICEgov/status/1...ingawful.com%2F
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Aug 14, 2019 16:03
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536 posted:uhh im starting to think you haven't read anything about either of these events. did the dust bowl kill millions or did the holodomor only kill tens of thousands? uncop posted:And the death tolls of the famines have had to be constantly revised downward in serious studies, shaving off millions, even over ten million in the case of the Chinese one, although the final tally will almost certainly settle in the millions, caused in large part by disrupting the lifestyles of the peasantry right before a trying time in terms of weather and also prior to having built the kind of system that could adequately monitor the situation and make timely responses to it. The millions that have been shaved off are millions that could be made to appear while analyzing a lot of events by applying the same assumptions and methodology to them, which was what I thought the Dust Bowl example was referring to. Check this poo poo out fellas! Fast Luck has issued a correction as of 17:16 on Aug 14, 2019 |
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Aug 14, 2019 16:15
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Fast Luck posted:It was also the only famine in the history of the USSR. This isn't true, there are at least two other notable ones (in the wake of the Civil War, and then due to and after WW2). A lot of the pictures circulated in the press during the 1930s famine, particularly in the Hearst press, were actually of the earlier 1921 famine. But yeah, the 'holodomor' narrative owes a lot to 1930s fascists and then post-WW2 nazi collaborator Ukrainian émigrés to the west, who pushed the judeo-bolshevik genocide line which then got smoothed into just a bolshevik genocide once Robert Conquest and other intelligence asset historians got their hands on it.
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Aug 14, 2019 16:23
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Fast Luck posted:There was a famine, but like most (all?) famines, it absolutely wasn't intended. It was also the only famine in the history of the USSR. Gotta love the Hillary avatar in the thread saying that the consensus is on their side. People totally didn't say that about slavery, or women being inferior, or a host of other vile things.
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Aug 14, 2019 16:41
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they must have mistaken him with a 2 year old they want to murder
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Aug 14, 2019 16:46
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he and Mitch McConnell and Duerte would have a lot to talk about then lmao
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Aug 14, 2019 17:05
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https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1161667636939427840
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Aug 14, 2019 17:34
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he isn’t wrong threatening Maduro got liberals to temporarily drop their hatred of him as imperialism knows no party
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Aug 14, 2019 18:40
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So is ICE operating in venezuela now? They gonna fly down there and arrest him?
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Aug 14, 2019 20:15
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CharlestheHammer posted:he isn’t wrong threatening Maduro got liberals to temporarily drop their hatred of him as imperialism knows no party *immediately starts sympathizing with john bolton and calls trump a putin puppet doing exactly what putin wants in venezuela*
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Aug 14, 2019 20:44
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to be fair, bolton *is* doing exactly what putin wants lmao there's really no better way to add some distance between us and vneezuela than the us sponsoring a coup. well i guess vice versa would be a quicker better way, but only us is psycho enough to do actually it
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Aug 14, 2019 21:08
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comedyblissoption posted:*coup fails* i mean these are the same liberals who protested because trump fired Jeff Sessions
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Aug 14, 2019 21:09
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I usually don't crosspost but this is... he's talking about russia and china selling food to VZ btw BigFactory posted:China and Russia are standing in the way of the Venezuelan people removing Maduro and holding free elections so they don’t lose a few hundred billion. That’s fairly reprehensible. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 15, 2019 02:06
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It is bad when other nations enter into agreements with China and Russia. Totally reprehensible to sell out to those countries. On the other hand, it would be wiser for them to sell out mineral rights at pennies on the dollar to US corporations.
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Aug 15, 2019 02:12
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lmao i just saw 536's post in there. still being a disingenuous imperialist bootlicker huh bitch (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 15, 2019 02:13
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Tollymain posted:lmao i just saw 536's post in there. still being a disingenuous imperialist bootlicker huh bitch They still haven't answered my question of why the Venezuelan government is responsible for the actions of private food companies
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Aug 15, 2019 02:17
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That guys a little too handsome for a political figure. Now I'm thinking of switching teams. Captain Billy Pissboy posted:They still haven't answered my question of why the Venezuelan government is responsible for the actions of private food companies Its not? But they are responsible to make sure poor people are getting fed, whether by the gov themselves or aid. They can't pretend nothing is wrong for years and hold their hands over their ears. CLAP packages are woefully underfunded and under-supplied and have problems with corruption as well.
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Aug 15, 2019 02:18
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imagine seeing someone feed the hungry and attacking him for it while low key advocating for the other guy to starve people to be clear, of course the chinese and russians have an interest here but maybe it would be good to examine the situation where their best bet is literally helping people not to starve while the side you're rooting for has been engineering this exact same situation officially for years and unoficially for probably 20 years and is open about wanting to suck every penny out of the country
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Aug 15, 2019 02:20
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536 posted:Its not? But they are responsible to make sure poor people are getting fed, whether by the gov themselves or aid. they're accepting aid that isn't incredibly obvious CIA arms shipments lol
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Aug 15, 2019 02:24
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almost forgot536 posted:People have been starving and mass emigrating for years because of the USA?
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Aug 15, 2019 02:25
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Doctor Jeep posted:I usually don't crosspost but this is...
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Aug 15, 2019 02:27
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3 posted:they're accepting aid that isn't incredibly obvious CIA arms shipments lol Maduro said only a year ago "there is no food crisis, we need no aid". So yeah, he is kinda a big problem.
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Aug 15, 2019 02:28
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if you're cheering for the side that literally orders tankers full of food to turn back from delivering it to venezuela, you are not in favor of feeding the venezuelan people this is extremely simple and straightforward and only dumb loving liberals think otherwise
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Aug 15, 2019 02:28
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comedyblissoption posted:if you're cheering for the side that literally orders tankers full of food to turn back from delivering it to venezuela, you are not in favor of feeding the venezuelan people
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Aug 15, 2019 02:29
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