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Who do you wish to win the Democratic primaries? This poll is closed. |
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| Joe Biden, the Klansman |
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8 | 0.91% |
| Bernie Sanders, the Hand Flailer |
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578 | 65.76% |
| Elizabeth Warren, the Plan Maker |
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185 | 21.05% |
| Kamala Harris, the Cop Lord |
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4 | 0.46% |
| Cory Booker, the Super Hero Wannabe |
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0 | 0% |
| Julian Castro, the Twin |
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3 | 0.34% |
| Kirsten Gillibrand, the Franken Killer |
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3 | 0.34% |
| Pete Buttigieg, the Troop Sociopath |
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9 | 1.02% |
| Robert Francis O'Rourke, the Fake Latino |
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2 | 0.23% |
| Jay Inslee, the Climate Alarmist |
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4 | 0.46% |
| Marianne Williamson, the Crystal Queen |
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19 | 2.16% |
| Andrew Yang, the $1000 Fool |
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19 | 2.16% |
| Tulsi Gabbard, the Muslim Hater |
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8 | 0.91% |
| Amy Klobuchar, the Comb Enthusiast |
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1 | 0.11% |
| Just like in real life, nobody voted for Hickenlooper |
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2 | 0.23% |
| Jeffrey Epstein, the MCC Most Hated |
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9 | 1.02% |
| KKKillary KKKlinton |
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16 | 1.82% |
| Some other idiot not in this list |
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9 | 1.02% |
| Total: | 879 votes | ||
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Endorph posted:she literally sent him a letter thanking him for his help with her campaign Well yeah, but he did it in a super mansplainy, finger-wagging way.
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Aug 15, 2019 04:54
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Phone posted:if you didn't identify the democrats as the biggest hurdle to overcome on november 9th, it's a demonstrable truth that you're not paying attention. i remember talking to some well meaning liberals a few years back, and the refrain was always some variant of "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE REPUBLICANS!!?!?!?!?!" yes, they exist. yes, they're cartoonishly evil. yes, they're awful in ways that haven't been discovered yet. congratulations, you've done the analysis that shows that water is in fact wet. Thing is, what they're offering is neither perfect nor even good; it's at best slightly less bad than the worst thing currently on offer.
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Aug 15, 2019 05:21
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Lastgirl posted:thats why what Addamere is doing is fine because people's lives hang in the balance. You can't tell me that other campaigns haven't done more insipidly petty poo poo like ripping up yard signs as an underhanded tactic. It happens all the time, there's no procedural approach to having a fair shake at getting the message out. Nonsense posted:I’m serious just gently caress advocating for any other candidate. I’m done putting up with it. This is war. Ok but have you considered: this will make the lib pundits mad
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Aug 15, 2019 05:23
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Ytlaya posted:I think it's a pretty massive stretch to call those people "pretty close" to you ideologically, since the world people like that HoarseWhisperer guy desire is closer to the one chuds desire than the one you or I do.  the politicians they tend to support these days (claim to) support some flavor of M4A, college debt relief, unions and worker protections, cracking down on white supremacy, etc. They'll of course do none of those things in office, and their actual policies are full of asterisks and gotchas, and their core supporters will never hold them to account for their duplicity, but they at least claim to support those things, and on some level I think they believe they really do (not the politicians - their supporters). It's just that none of their actions will ever result in those things, and this fact will never lead them to a bit of introspection, because for them a lot of that "support" is just performative - not just for other people but for themselves as well. And so when it doesn't work out they just mumble about making sausage and go on doing the same stuff. Which I guess is another way of saying that they "want" those things but they don't think any of it is really important.I guess in a way that's far from most of us here ideologically, and certainly they're not going to support anything like collective ownership of the means of production, much less the abolition of private property, but then again neither did I prior to 2016, or if I did then I did in the way they support those other things up above, with no real sense of urgency. It feels like a lot of liberals, even "left" liberals (in the American sense i.e. Warren and people like Warren), took entirely the wrong lesson from 2016, or took no lesson from 2016, but the thing is it still seems like it could have been me: I have no convincing working theory of mind for the sort of person who was apparently ideologically near to me in October 2016 and is now here in August 2019 bitching endlessly about how Bernie Sanders didn't campaign for Hillary enough or didn't drop out soon enough or was just too drat hard on her in the half-dozen or whatever poo poo-rear end debates they had, etc etc, and would rather drive a wedge through the middle of the Democratic party and usher in another four years of Trump, at least, and who knows how many decades of full-on Roman-saluting fascism before climate changes fucks us all. I really understand them less than I understand the fash. Like I get the hatred and the spite of reactionary fascists. Partly because I grew up around it and partly because there's been a lot of ink spilled in the last three years on what they're all about. I don't get the hatred and the spite of centrist and left-ish liberals: I know it exists, I know we have to fight it just as viciously as we do fascism itself, but I don't know where it comes from. Like we talk about Sanders going on Rogan and maybe turning a few alt-right folks, or people who were moving that way, back around to the left. It seems like there should be something similar for liberals. Maybe it's losing another election - I don't know - but while I can write off a lot of the alt-right rank and file (though not the leaders, to be clear) as being the product of ignorance and hatred, centrist liberals these days seem to be coming from a place of stupidity and contempt, and I honestly think that's much worse and much harder to reach - even if their actual actions rise no where near to the level of what the fascists are up to (yet).
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Aug 15, 2019 05:54
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It's pretty simple. The centrists believe themselves to be the heroes, that they can create their ideal world without really putting any effort into it, and they really, really don't like that being taken away from them.
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Aug 15, 2019 06:13
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:
The thing is, this is not because they're close to you ideologically. This is because they are so separated from you ideologically, that the kind of social ethics that lead you to support those things are simply cosplay to them, but a cosplay of something they deeply do not want to be reality. They are in fact so ideologically opposed to you that they create and maintain an entire industry that works to absorb, suppress, and pervert genuine desire for betterment of the human condition into something that maintains the power of institutions that profit from suffering and inequality. It is important to distinguish between liberals that are misguided, and liberals that are not. Hoarsefucker is not misguided; he's a consultant for the MIC, big pharma, motherfucking Comcast. He understands what he's doing and the outcomes he has. He is evil. It's important to be able to make that distinction, between your lib friend who genuinely believes the world could be a better place for most people, but thanks to All Things Considered thinks the path there is a health saving account and regime change in Venezuela, from Hoarsefucker whose idea of a better world is maybe one of his frat bros that he goes to the track with is some kind of PoC but otherwise everything is pretty much the same except he makes more money helping Aetna tell people needing healthcare is their fault for poor planning. He is no ideological neighbor. The purpose of most left-center apparatuses are not to empower left movements but to absorb and extinguish them.
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Aug 15, 2019 11:51
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To establishment Democrats, progressive policies are not priorities. They are ad copy. Interchangeable meaningless buzzwords like everything else they say.
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Aug 15, 2019 13:06
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Thing is, what they're offering is neither perfect nor even good; it's at best slightly less bad than the worst thing currently on offer. yeah sanders isn't the ideal candidate so that line was also stupid (especially since their favored candidate isn't actually goodd).
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Aug 15, 2019 13:43
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https://twitter.com/rebeccakkatz/status/1161974122592788481 Scaling back the already scaled back campaign to limit the gaffes. This is the most electable man we have.
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Aug 15, 2019 14:52
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KIM JONG TRILL posted:https://twitter.com/rebeccakkatz/status/1161974122592788481 Every time he's out in public, the campaign leaks that they need to pull him back lol
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Aug 15, 2019 15:01
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:The Bernie Gesserit Sisterhood, a distinct and revered sect of Bernie supporters, are not to be trifled with. Kull wahad!
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Aug 15, 2019 15:01
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Luckily for Joe Biden this is the most grueling part of a Presidential campaign and things will only get easier for him as the general election approaches 15 months from now.
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Aug 15, 2019 15:24
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Breakfast All Day posted:The purpose of most left-center apparatuses are not to empower left movements but to absorb and extinguish them. Yeah, they've had a lot of success doing this sort of thing over the years. This is why, back when Occupy was still a thing, I feel like one of the smartest things they did was reject early Democratic efforts to coopt the movement.
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Aug 15, 2019 15:42
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https://twitter.com/daveweigel/status/1162007773405753344?s=20MSDOS KAPITAL posted:
It's because the people who get really into liberal politics fall into one of two camps, largely. 1) Young people who haven't seen this clownshow before and legitimately don't understand that your Kamalas and your Bidens are outright lying to them 2) Comfortable upperclass shitheads who are only into politics for the performative woke points but also have enough money that none of this poo poo matters to them. So they can feel fine and even -superior- for pushing the "smart" and "electable" candidate (Kerry, Hillary, lmao) despite compromising entirely on any alleged morals they have. This person is likely also your boss who runs the company 5k for cancer but also actively blocks your raises. This same boss has probably also told you on multiple occasions that not being in a union is better because "you don't have to negotiate a contract, and can get yearly raises now". e: gently caress https://twitter.com/CoryBooker/status/2729760577?s=20 Marxalot fucked around with this message at 15:59 on Aug 15, 2019 |
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Aug 15, 2019 15:50
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Don't stick your dick in the coffee Cory, this shouldnt have to be explained to you
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Aug 15, 2019 16:05
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KIM JONG TRILL posted:https://twitter.com/rebeccakkatz/status/1161974122592788481 "OK gang, you know how having our candidate disappear from public view for long stretches at a time hurt us last time around? What if we did that again, but with a male candidate this time?!"
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Aug 15, 2019 16:08
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I like that the source basically states outright that he's sundowning regularly. You love to see it
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Aug 15, 2019 16:11
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https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1162018186818203648 https://twitter.com/ewarren/status/1162010723691765760 Bernie and Warren out in front on criticizing Israel's decision to ban Tlaib/Omar from entering the country.
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Aug 15, 2019 16:15
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he needs to drop out and save the country.
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Aug 15, 2019 16:20
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Apparently Sanders had a sit-down with Cardi B? It seems like wooing celebrities is working a lot better for him than it did for Hillary. https://mobile.twitter.com/CaraKorte/status/1162027416828743682
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Aug 15, 2019 17:05
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:I really understand them less than I understand the fash. Like I get the hatred and the spite of reactionary fascists. Partly because I grew up around it and partly because there's been a lot of ink spilled in the last three years on what they're all about. I don't get the hatred and the spite of centrist and left-ish liberals: I know it exists, I know we have to fight it just as viciously as we do fascism itself, but I don't know where it comes from. Like we talk about Sanders going on Rogan and maybe turning a few alt-right folks, or people who were moving that way, back around to the left. It seems like there should be something similar for liberals. Maybe it's losing another election - I don't know - but while I can write off a lot of the alt-right rank and file (though not the leaders, to be clear) as being the product of ignorance and hatred, centrist liberals these days seem to be coming from a place of stupidity and contempt, and I honestly think that's much worse and much harder to reach - even if their actual actions rise no where near to the level of what the fascists are up to (yet). At its core, it's classism. In the same way as right-wingers/fascists act based on bigotry towards ethnic groups, these people basically associate being working class and/or not having a high level of education/credentials with being a dumb trash person (though they're also pretty dang racist themselves if minorities don't act the way they want them to). If you spend enough time with these people this will inevitably end up slipping out in very disturbing ways. Like, I've encountered a liberal post-doc who talked about how the poor should probably be sterilized for their own good, with no resistance from the other people nearby, minus me. It's also frighteningly common for liberals to support ideas like making people pass a poll test in order to vote. As long as they don't already associate a bad idea with Republicans, they're often very open to those ideas (because the biggest difference between liberals and conservatives in the US is cultural, not ideological). To a large extent, many of the relatively good things liberals support are supported only because Republicans support the opposite, but the main motivation is "cultural distaste towards Republicans" rather than a proactive desire to do something good. Obviously being wealthy or well-off isn't necessary to have these attitudes; many people who aren't can still internalize them in the same way other disadvantaged groups internalize bigotry towards their own demographic. But that's usually the source of these attitudes, and "liberal but anti-left" is an attitude almost exclusively limited to people who are well-off (in the same way fascism is almost exclusively limited to white people in the US). On the upside, I think this only applies to the relatively small subset of liberals who are very politically aware and have made a conscious choice to not associate with the left. Most Democrats can probably be swayed into supporting left-wing ideas, since those ideas are in their own interest.
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Aug 15, 2019 17:07
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https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1161982986226753536 Guys, I think Biden might be...bad?
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Aug 15, 2019 17:19
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I see the idea that Warren's policies are just watered down version's of Sanders brought up a lot here. As someone who is woefully behind on reading about the candidates this year, anyone have a good article/blog post that discusses this?
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Aug 15, 2019 17:22
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Majorian posted:https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1161982986226753536 Everyone loves Obama and he basically did this. KIM JONG TRILL posted:https://twitter.com/rebeccakkatz/status/1161974122592788481 I'm unconvinced that this will sway the loving dolts who are supporting Biden.
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Aug 15, 2019 17:27
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mcmagic posted:I'm unconvinced that this will sway the loving dolts who are supporting Biden. None of these dolts will ever see that article. Or any other. They don't follow politics in the slightest and only like the guy based off name recognition and maybe that one article they read in Wapo talking about how great the obama years were Ytlaya posted:At its core, it's classism. In the same way as right-wingers/fascists act based on bigotry towards ethnic groups, these people basically associate being working class and/or not having a high level of education/credentials with being a dumb trash person (though they're also pretty dang racist themselves if minorities don't act the way they want them to). If you spend enough time with these people this will inevitably end up slipping out in very disturbing ways. Like, I've encountered a liberal post-doc who talked about how the poor should probably be sterilized for their own good, with no resistance from the other people nearby, minus me. It's also frighteningly common for liberals to support ideas like making people pass a poll test in order to vote. As long as they don't already associate a bad idea with Republicans, they're often very open to those ideas (because the biggest difference between liberals and conservatives in the US is cultural, not ideological). To a large extent, many of the relatively good things liberals support are supported only because Republicans support the opposite, but the main motivation is "cultural distaste towards Republicans" rather than a proactive desire to do something good. So basically wealthy right wing authoritarians who don't culturally mesh with the more evangelical christian right wing authoritarians.
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Aug 15, 2019 17:30
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Majorian posted:https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1161982986226753536 While I wouldn't put it past him, that's a very convoluted and unreliable sourcing on a statement that seems to be carefully vague. I personally don't think it's a credible claim.
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Aug 15, 2019 17:33
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https://twitter.com/USAmbIsrael/status/1162038851680051200 Trump's Zionist fascist Ambassador is supporting the travel ban.
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Aug 15, 2019 17:34
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Megasabin posted:I see the idea that Warren's policies are just watered down version's of Sanders brought up a lot here. As someone who is woefully behind on reading about the candidates this year, anyone have a good article/blog post that discusses this? I like this piece from Jacobin: https://jacobinmag.com/2019/01/elizabeth-warren-bernie-sanders-socialism-progressives I've seen other articles linked before but I don't have those handy.
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Aug 15, 2019 17:38
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DaveWoo posted:Bernie and Warren out in front on criticizing Israel's decision to ban Tlaib/Omar from entering the country. Delaney has weighed in as well. His statement is (of course) far weaker, and it's interesting to compare it to the Sanders and Warren tweets. https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnDelaney/status/1162041536537866241 https://mobile.twitter.com/JohnDelaney/status/1162041540283424768 One thing that comes to mind pretty quickly is that only Sanders pointed out that the move was disrespectful to Tlaib and Omar, while both Warren and Delaney instead framed the move as bad for Israel. Julian Castro also tweeted about it, but carefully avoids apportioning blame: https://mobile.twitter.com/JulianCastro/status/1162028082611593217 So far, Harris, Buttigieg, and Booker have yet to comment, and I'm not going to waste my time checking the rest of them.
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Aug 15, 2019 17:53
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Why would the Governor of New York, an office without term-limits, demote themselves to Chief of Staff?
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Aug 15, 2019 18:00
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Ague Proof posted:Why would the Governor of New York, an office without term-limits, demote themselves to Chief of Staff? Why the gently caress is Joe staffing up a White House he hasn't even won the right to run for yet? Jesus Christ, of all the things I hate about the "old school" Democratic Party it's this ASSUMPTION they won just for showing up I probably hate most. Turbofuck this poo poo so hard. We're months away from Iowa and he's thinking up cabinet positions and poo poo already. Good loving God the hubris. EDIT Assuming it's even true of course. It SOUNDS true though, right? Like, this is a thing old school Dems do on the reg. VH4Ever fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Aug 15, 2019 |
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Aug 15, 2019 18:02
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Ague Proof posted:Why would the Governor of New York, an office without term-limits, demote themselves to Chief of Staff? Everyone in New York really hates him. He gets reelected due only to the combination of a powerful Democratic machine and the GOP predictably fielding candidates who are somehow even more loathsome.
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Aug 15, 2019 18:02
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VH4Ever posted:Why the gently caress is Joe staffing up a White House he hasn't even won the right to run for yet? Jesus Christ, of all the things I hate about the "old school" Democratic Party it's this ASSUMPTION they won just for showing up I probably hate most. Turbofuck this poo poo so hard. We're months away from Iowa and he's thinking up cabinet positions and poo poo already. Good loving God the hubris. It’s signaling that the fix is in. That and it takes a while to decide which wallpaper you want for your office.
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Aug 15, 2019 18:15
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Phone posted:It’s signaling that the fix is in. Exactly. gently caress that poo poo.
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Aug 15, 2019 18:21
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You start talking about cabinet posts and who gets to be press secretary and who gets to use Air Force One on the weekends, etc. because it's the standard way of securing support from elected officials. You want the support of the New York Governor, well the New York Governor wants to know what you're going to do for them first. As for why Cuomo, New York has elections almost as rigged as Georgia, so getting the guy in charge of rigging the elections on your side is a smart move. Can't wait for primary day when a bunch of ballots from poor neighborhoods get challenged and thrown out for very valid reasons like the "L" in the signature is a little more loopy than the one on record.
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Aug 15, 2019 18:37
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So with Hickenlooper bowing out I guess you're just hosed if you really wanted a mountain state governor or a Colorado guy, right? Oh.
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Aug 15, 2019 18:38
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Phone posted:It’s signaling that the fix is in. This is literally Hillary Clinton all over again. Seeing them have extremely normal ones on Twitter two years from now is going to be small comfort.
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Aug 15, 2019 18:42
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Main Paineframe posted:Apparently Sanders had a sit-down with Cardi B? It seems like wooing celebrities is working a lot better for him than it did for Hillary. I swear to god Cardi B is going to save us from some lukewarm liberal like Warren or Biden . This is amazing.
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Aug 15, 2019 18:49
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Punk da Bundo posted:I swear to god Cardi B is going to save us from some lukewarm liberal like Warren or Biden . This is amazing. 74 million followers, if all of them view the video, that's like going on the joe rogan podcast 7 times except reaching a nonwhite audience instead of protofascist chad chuds
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Aug 15, 2019 18:53
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a better politician could have sat down with Cardi A
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