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Huh so unbeknownst to me there has been an *online twitter drama* recently involving a bunch of young labour types I initially quite liked taking some of the AS allegations from RR etc in perhaps a naive amount of good faith then everything blowing up when others have criticised them for it. Seems to me like they're being kinda dumb and showing their age here but some of the shite other accounts are throwing at them is really gross. Can anyone give me the tl:dr? It sure doesn't feel good watching the left eat itself, who could have predicted this??? https://twitter.com/a_leesha1/status/1163214723233517568?s=19
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Aug 19, 2019 10:58
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Sanford posted:How utterly surprising These fuckers have the thinnest skin. forkboy84 posted:The Guardian wonder why they lose money. Wonder how much that tit Freedland gets paid to be wrong. They've got to know but they're waging an ideological war, largely against what's left of their own readership.
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Aug 19, 2019 10:58
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Marmaduke! posted:They're so passive about the conversation too, I think I'd prefer it if they came back with a "No gently caress YOU!" but instead they prefer to retreat away from the difficult debate/argument. You should reply that they are "no platforming" you by refusing to listen to your arguments! 
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Aug 19, 2019 10:59
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ThomasPaine posted:Huh so unbeknownst to me there has been an *online twitter drama* recently involving a bunch of young labour types I initially quite liked taking some of the AS allegations from RR etc in perhaps a naive amount of good faith then everything blowing up when others have criticised them for it. Seems to me like they're being kinda dumb and showing their age here but some of the shite other accounts are throwing at them is really gross. Can anyone give me the tl:dr? It sure doesn't feel good watching the left eat itself, who could have predicted this??? i think its got less to do with antisemitism/RR and more that they're young POCs talking about racism and getting told to shut the gently caress up by old white labour members
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Aug 19, 2019 11:00
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:Apparently I quit smoking 4 years ago today, and good lord I still get the cravings Spooky, I gave up today.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:06
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"it's very important that we have reasoned debates about politics, just as long as people who point out the monstrous effects of my politics are excluded from the debate" It's not just a defence mechanism to protect people from confronting their own beliefs, it's actively counterproductive by their own metric: show me someone who can point out hundreds of thousands of needless deaths without getting angry, and I'll show you a sociopath - so, nobody who, like, notices the effects of austerity is allowed at the very-rational-adults table, rendering any debate impossible.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:07
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Borrovan posted:"it's very important that we have reasoned debates about politics, just as long as people who point out the monstrous effects of my politics are excluded from the debate" Every politics debate with my dad 
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Aug 19, 2019 11:08
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Marmaduke! posted:They're so passive about the conversation too, I think I'd prefer it if they came back with a "No gently caress YOU!" but instead they prefer to retreat away from the difficult debate/argument. You should reply that they are "no platforming" you by refusing to listen to your arguments! politics isn’t real life to these people and they get mad if you point out that it is literally life and death for many anyway this is surely a metaphor of something https://twitter.com/RussianMemesLtd/status/1163378314020577281
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Aug 19, 2019 11:10
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Jose posted:i think its got less to do with antisemitism/RR and more that they're young POCs talking about racism and getting told to shut the gently caress up by old white labour members Yeah that's a bad look but I can see why you'd get annoyed at people in your party accepting the 'labour is institutionally antisemitic' line uncritically which seems to be one of the big claims, idk the truth of it because I missed the big drama as it happened and it's a whole shitshow now
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Aug 19, 2019 11:10
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Jose posted:wow who could have predicted this? * The Labour conference board ** Approved a request by JVL *** Israeli-American **** Guy who said Holocaust denial isn't illegal in the UK but should not be platformed ***** Specifically at a JVL youth event lemonadesweetheart posted:People will just blame foreigners bringing it into the UK as the reason for this.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:16
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gently caress the Telegraph. They have a story "man suspended after telling colleague" I like some good baps"while looking through her shopping basket" Oh god, it's pc gone mad, can't say anything, just bants innit loony left. The actual article (which nobody ever reads) also mentions that he groped her a bunch of times and regularly harassed her. Fuckers.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:21
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Corbyn's in Corby, which is enough by itself, but no, in fact he's making a speech too. He's already re-re-re-reaffirmed that a GE is a means to a second referendum that definitely includes remain, and definitely rules out no deal.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:22
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I can't get enough of are Dan
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HJB posted:Corbyn's in Corby, which is enough by itself, but no, in fact he's making a speech too. He's already re-re-re-reaffirmed that a GE is a means to a second referendum that definitely includes remain, and definitely rules out no deal. YEAH BUT YOU CAN'T TRUST HIM HE'S A SECRET BREXITEER ARGHLBLARGLH Also he can't be PM for 5 weeks because he might not send nukes in that timeframe.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:24
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My favourite thing today about the NHS is how teeth are arbitrarily excluded from being free at the point of service. If I crack a bone in my leg, arm, ribs, back or hip I get seen and treated for free. If it happens to be in my mouth then that's £20 consultation and £60 treatment, unless the greedy half-doctor can spin it as needing removal and replacement with an implant in which case that's £250. It's just so ridiculous and loving arbitrary.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:26
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Sanford posted:How utterly surprising Don't let them dictate the terms of debate, keep arguing
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Aug 19, 2019 11:26
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Teeth aren't essential, therefore I suggest removing them from tory MPs.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:26
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Bobby Deluxe posted:My favourite thing today about the NHS is how teeth are arbitrarily excluded from being free at the point of service. If I crack a bone in my leg, arm, ribs, back or hip I get seen and treated for free. If it happens to be in my mouth then that's £20 consultation and £60 treatment, unless the greedy half-doctor can spin it as needing removal and replacement with an implant in which case that's £250. See also, eyes (pun intended). EVery part of healthcare should be free at point of use. The fact that teeth and eyes are accepted as excluded from that is one of the biggest victories for creeping privatisation.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:29
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HJB posted:He's already re-re-re-reaffirmed that a GE is a means to a second referendum that definitely includes remain, and definitely rules out no deal. Unless the GNU (is that a non-recursive acronym? Government of national unity?) feels like resurrecting May's deal, the only non-insane way to have a 2nd ref without a GE is Ken Clarke's proposal that he'd just press ahead and negotiate a soft Brexit to put to the vote, which is, uh, a little beyond an unelected caretaker Government's remit... Borrovan fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 11:30
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Bobby Deluxe posted:My favourite thing today about the NHS is how teeth are arbitrarily excluded from being free at the point of service. If I crack a bone in my leg, arm, ribs, back or hip I get seen and treated for free. If it happens to be in my mouth then that's £20 consultation and £60 treatment, unless the greedy half-doctor can spin it as needing removal and replacement with an implant in which case that's £250. Yeah I don't get this either but I'm sure there's some historical reason dentists aren't covered in the same way. Idg why dentists are a seperate profession to doctors either tbh
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Aug 19, 2019 11:34
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Borrovan posted:Amazed there's even any debate on this tbh - the Green/LD position that there should be a second referendum before a GE completely fails to address that there's not a deal on the table atm, what do they actually want to have a second referendum on?! Yeh I know the LDs previously said no deal should be on it, but that's just lunacy. Greens don't seem to be saying poo poo. Yeah, everyone I talk to who thinks there should be a referendum before a GE is completely incapable of forming a coherent idea on what the actual question of a second referendum should be.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:36
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ThomasPaine posted:Yeah I don't get this either but I'm sure there's some historical reason dentists aren't covered in the same way. Idg why dentists are a seperate profession to doctors either tbh I think this just goes back to when the NHS was formed. To get the Doctors and Dentists to buy in the government had to allow that private work was still allowed, and I guess the Dentist's professional body just drove a harder bargain.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:37
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ThomasPaine posted:Yeah I don't get this either but I'm sure there's some historical reason dentists aren't covered in the same way. Idg why dentists are a seperate profession to doctors either tbh It was at the start of the NHS iirc, and it was utterly swamped even then. I'd love to know how it got to the state its in now, but I'm going to blame Thatcher until I get the facts.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:38
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Junior G-man posted:Yeah, everyone I talk to who thinks there should be a referendum before a GE is completely incapable of forming a coherent idea on what the actual question of a second referendum should be. I think this is pretty standard thinking for typical liberal who thinks the first election was lost cause of Facebook/Russian troll farms/illegal spending and that if we get a do-over everybody will vote the right way this time because logic and facts. There's no need to think about what a second question would be because all that matters is that a second question is asked.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:40
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Junior G-man posted:Yeah, everyone I talk to who thinks there should be a referendum before a GE is completely incapable of forming a coherent idea on what the actual question of a second referendum should be. Do you not want to leave the EU anymore? Yes / No
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Aug 19, 2019 11:42
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Just wanted to say, Sanford, because I was taken up wrong. When I said:Failed Imagineer posted:Lol that should be persuasive I wasn't saying you took the wrong approach. Debate is loving piss.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:47
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What kind of loving nerd thinks it's "important" to debate things?
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Aug 19, 2019 11:48
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Spooky, I gave up today. pro-tip (if you're serious) - use a lovely brand of e-cigs. I eventually got so fed up of Blu's batteries and cartomiser cartridges basically dying after barely any use that I was able to kick them about six months after I moved to them
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Aug 19, 2019 11:49
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OwlFancier posted:What kind of loving nerd thinks it's "important" to debate things? Insulated middle class and petit-booj types who won't be affected by the outcomes
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Aug 19, 2019 11:49
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It's really weird seeing Government of National Unity because I keep thinking about rms
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Aug 19, 2019 11:50
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I just can't imagine the person that thinks "I need to have a very dispassionate argument about this for.... reasons" Like the kind of aberrant brain that thinks the specific debate format achieves something.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:50
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Rarity posted:Don't let them dictate the terms of debate, keep arguing I did!
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Aug 19, 2019 11:50
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OwlFancier posted:What kind of loving nerd thinks it's "important" to debate things? pretend I posted that sealion comic
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Aug 19, 2019 11:51
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Sanford posted:I did! lol the double blue ticks so that fucker has definitely read it
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Aug 19, 2019 11:53
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OwlFancier posted:What kind of loving nerd thinks it's "important" to debate things? People who did too much of it in secondary school *shamefully raises hand*
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Aug 19, 2019 11:53
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Debating clearly doesn't achieve anything, it's performance, it's one of the lowest forms of performance at that, a loving play achieves more because a capable writer can portray otherwise hard-to-portray concepts and emotions through performance. Debate is possibly lower than reality TV on the scale of worthwhile things.
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Aug 19, 2019 11:53
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Sanford posted:I did! e: "debate" can achieve things. I've changed my mind a bunch of times from discussions ITT, for example. The problem is from the fetishisation of debate as an ideal in itself, making thing like pointing out when someone's a loving sociopath somehow less acceptable than actually being a loving sociopath. Emphasising rationality above all else is fundamentally irrational. Borrovan fucked around with this message at 11:59 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 11:54
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Borrovan posted:the GNU (is that a non-recursive acronym? Government of national unity?) actually it stands for "GNU's Not Unity"
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Aug 19, 2019 11:58
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Sanford posted:I did! 
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Aug 19, 2019 11:58
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Borrovan posted:lmao righteous I'd say that we definitely don't debate ITT, we argue/discuss stuff but we absolutely don't debate.
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Aug 19, 2019 12:01
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OwlFancier posted:I'd say that we definitely don't debate ITT, we argue/discuss stuff but we absolutely don't debate. Yeah and that's how minds get changed. There's a few opinions I've held that on reflection were very bad and wrong; people in this thread saying "hmm, these seem to be the opinions of a oval office, you might want to look at them again" is a good thing. I don't actually believe these centrist types believe in the importance of decorum - it's an easy out when you're losing the argument (which they normally are).
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Aug 19, 2019 12:03
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