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~ludonarrative dissonance~
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Aug 21, 2019 00:29
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Narcissus1916 posted:I'm replaying Grand Theft Auto series right now (don't ask) and its hilarious how schizophrenic GTA IV is. They're trying to tell a real "serious" story at the same time I'm going to an internet cafe called "tw@t" and seeing ads for Pisswasser beer. I loved GTAIV but this is pretty much entirely correct. RDR2 has a very similarly dour plot, but it doesn’t have the big satirical pastiche of NYC to distract you from it.
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Aug 21, 2019 00:31
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Dewgy posted:I loved GTAIV but this is pretty much entirely correct. RDR2 has a very similarly dour plot, but it doesn’t have the big satirical pastiche of NYC to distract you from it. Yeah it kind of sucks how juvenile some extremely foundational titles were because it means we get to carry that baggage forward through history forever since you can't just like, NOT have the stupid bullshit. Although honestly considering how cringeworthy the original Shadow Warrior is, I think the remake actually did a really good job making the story actually good (I mean it's not a masterpiece but the characters and mythology they built up are actually pretty decent as video game plots go). So you don't HAVE to carry that poo poo forward.
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Aug 21, 2019 00:37
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Narcissus1916 posted:I'm replaying Grand Theft Auto series right now (don't ask) and its hilarious how schizophrenic GTA IV is. They're trying to tell a real "serious" story at the same time I'm going to an internet cafe called "tw@t" and seeing ads for Pisswasser beer. Rockstar is caught in the middle of two entirely different designs and desires, and I'm slowly losing all interest in their games as a result. But they're still making bank so they probably won't change. This video by NakeyJakey says it better than I could: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvJPKOLDSos The games' worlds are so compelling you just wanna hang out and walk around, but the things you can do in those spaces have become increasingly hand-holdey and the antithesis of sandbox gaming. They want to be Uncharted and Farcry 3 at the same time, and they end up being just a really pretty Skyrim.
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Aug 21, 2019 00:39
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Jacked makes the Houser Brothers out to be complete douchebags. So that's probably part of it. I think juvenile humor has its place so long as it's not punching down or unnecessarily mean.
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Aug 21, 2019 00:50
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So my New Old Game Opinions™ that I'm sure people are dying to hear are these: I enjoyed Ion Fury the most overall. I get what people are saying about the negatives but it was exactly what I wanted out of this crop of games. Dusk was pretty meh for a lot of it (great music though) but somewhere in episode 2 it ramped up to awesome. I haven't finished Amid Evil, it didn't do much for me. I like the visuals though. I started playing SS1 again with enhanced edition this time. Man, the new improvements mostly just emphasize the sublime jank of that game. Movement feels so WEIRD. Also at high resolutions it seems much easier to see the invisible mutants and much easier to see on level 3 in general than I remember. Still cool as hell though. I don't know if I'll go on to SS2 or just wait for the enhanced edition.
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Aug 21, 2019 00:54
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I actually kinda like how clunky the interface in both System Shocks are. Nothing causes more panic then fumbling through your cyber interface as mutants are shambling towards you to rip your face off.
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Aug 21, 2019 01:02
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Narcissus1916 posted:I'm replaying Grand Theft Auto series right now (don't ask) and its hilarious how schizophrenic GTA IV is. They're trying to tell a real "serious" story at the same time I'm going to an internet cafe called "tw@t" and seeing ads for Pisswasser beer. I don't meant to sound like I'm disagreeing with you when I say this, but I still laugh when I think about that one ad in the game that goes "Pisswasser, this is beer! Drive drunk off a pier!" It's just that one rhyme in it that I recall, and it just cracks me up for some reason.
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Aug 21, 2019 01:15
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Narcissus1916 posted:I'm replaying Grand Theft Auto series right now (don't ask) and its hilarious how schizophrenic GTA IV is. They're trying to tell a real "serious" story at the same time I'm going to an internet cafe called "tw@t" and seeing ads for Pisswasser beer. Pretty much the only person alive or even in-game character buying GTA 4 as a gritty New York immigrant story is Niko. The story just sucks out loud and it's like some ambitious would-be screenwriter lost a fight over the story bible with the people who made the previous GTAs without realizing it. Except Vice City, San Andreas, and the Red Deads capture the intended flavor much better than IV does.
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Aug 21, 2019 01:16
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Groovelord Neato posted:erebus reactor loving ruled are you high. yeah it's one of the two best levels in the game, wtf (i'm also very partial to neobabel)
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Aug 21, 2019 01:22
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oh gently caress and the city level in ep 3 dusk loving rules i need to do another playthrough
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Aug 21, 2019 01:22
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Something weirds me out is how we really do just chug right on through every single graphic/design style in order for videogames as everyone just ages into boomerdom. I was thinking we'd probably skip the lowpoly/2.5d era and nope we're going right through it. My head will explode if we get a series of PSX-style lowpoly throwbacks with intentionally implemented z-fighting.
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Aug 21, 2019 01:26
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I feel like I remember the Half-Life 2 crossbow being pretty fun to use, although the fact that it pinned enemies to walls was probably a big element of it. Plus looking up some videos of it and either it is just a straight hitscan weapon or the projectile moves so fast it might as well be. IIRC, you need to lead with it beyond a certain distance and gravity eventually effects the bolts as well. It's mostly that HL2 de-emphasizes those factors by setting you up against stationary targets or never putting you in truly long range engagements against fast moving targets. It's a totally different story in HL2DM.
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Aug 21, 2019 01:30
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the only time i ever remember actually having to compensate was a bridge segment
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Aug 21, 2019 01:32
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wafflemoose posted:I actually kinda like how clunky the interface in both System Shocks are. Nothing causes more panic then fumbling through your cyber interface as mutants are shambling towards you to rip your face off. I haven't played a System Shock game in years, even though I bought both fairly recently (and as usual have done nothing about installing & playing them, much like many other drunk videogame purchases). My earliest memory of SS2 was wandering down a corridor and inspecting some wall panel when some distorted voice screamed "WE DO NOT WELCOME YOU" before the owner of said voice whacked me in the mouth with a pipe. Good times. Never really got far in either of them (I was 12 when SS2 happened) and I should probably do something about that.
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Aug 21, 2019 01:36
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Fabricated posted:Something weirds me out is how we really do just chug right on through every single graphic/design style in order for videogames as everyone just ages into boomerdom. I was thinking we'd probably skip the lowpoly/2.5d era and nope we're going right through it. My head will explode if we get a series of PSX-style lowpoly throwbacks with intentionally implemented z-fighting. My friend are you not familiar with hit indie title Devil Daggers? We are already at the "I'm nostalgic for wobbly PS1 polygons" phase.
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Aug 21, 2019 01:38
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The Cheshire Cat posted:My friend are you not familiar with hit indie title Devil Daggers? Anodyne 2 also exists. We've been there for quite a while.
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Aug 21, 2019 01:43
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Also that Project 1997 game that's just trying to be Silent Hill 1 as hard as possible.
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Aug 21, 2019 02:02
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Overwatch Porn posted:oh gently caress and the city level in ep 3 Haha you named my three fave levels.
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Aug 21, 2019 02:28
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We're in the woods here, but Ballad of Gay Tony is probably the best singular gaming experience Rockstar has ever delivered. In more shooter-ey news, I decided to dive back into Halo after not really touching the campaigns in years. I never played ODST, Reach, or 343's titles either. And like others in the thread have noted, Halo 1 really does straddle different design choices. For one, the weapons really do KICK and feel great and different. Firing a shotgun round into a Flood zombie still makes me grin in a way that Call of Duty can rarely manage. The firefights themselves are wildly chaotic; even on Normal I feel like I'm constantly gambling and rapid cycling through different tactics (melee? grenade? Switch weapon?) every few seconds. There's a pleasing lack of twitch reflexes, at least before cranking the difficulty up. Its difficult to divorce how a two weapon limit and regenerating health play out in Halo while ignoring how many times they've butchered a staggering amount of later titles. Also, good lord is the actual level design charitably trash. I'm either getting lost all the drat time in identikit corridors or laughing at how the developers periodically solved signposting by literally saying "gently caress it, here's white arrows on the ground." ETA: Also forgot to mention that I'm highly enjoying toggling between the HD upgrade and original textures. Reminds me of some of the texture packs I've seen in stuff like Duke where some of the improvements are legitimately great and some are amateurish at best. Narcissus1916 fucked around with this message at 09:33 on Aug 21, 2019 |
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Aug 21, 2019 05:35
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Narcissus1916 posted:Also, good lord is the actual level design charitably trash. I'm either getting lost all the drat time in identikit corridors or laughing at how the developers periodically solved signposting by literally saying "gently caress it, here's white arrows on the ground." When you go through that level backwards later, remember that the arrows are now pointing the wrong way 
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Aug 21, 2019 06:11
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The Library is one of the greatest sins ever committed against man. But I always liked Halo because I think the Covenant is a very well designed group to fight, and there's a lot of variety to the encounters as opposed to a lot of other console shooters that followed it.
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Aug 21, 2019 07:47
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Fabricated posted:Something weirds me out is how we really do just chug right on through every single graphic/design style in order for videogames as everyone just ages into boomerdom. I was thinking we'd probably skip the lowpoly/2.5d era and nope we're going right through it. My head will explode if we get a series of PSX-style lowpoly throwbacks with intentionally implemented z-fighting. It exists already. It's called BallisticNG and it's by far one of the best racing games out right now (with constant updates and mods too!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jn-tQSCXamQ I don't think they have the vertex jitter on in this trailer but it's one of the key graphical settings you can turn on, along with resolution downscale, color dither, and limited draw distance (though I generally say turn that one off. this is WAY faster than Wipeout) I'm sure there's a few others doing this but this is the one that stands out the most as far as "aping PSX aesthetic as hard as possble"
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Aug 21, 2019 09:54
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I didn't mind the necessary abstraction of Doom levels ('how were people working here? who cares!') likely because I grew up with Wolfenstein, which was even worse for that. But in Halo, specifically the Library, how are we supposed to believe that any of these places had any sort of purpose other than an obstacle course for gunplay? That's what multiplayer is for! I think that might be another reason why Goldeneye has the status that it does; literally everywhere you play seems like a real place, and it's fun (or at least it was fun) to shoot people and avoid being shot in those same places. Oddly enough, the multiplayer map 'Library' is the most abstract GE map in the game.
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Aug 21, 2019 12:24
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I can see PS1 retro being a thing, I'm just wondering how PS2 retro will work. Does that generation really have defining themes or styles that didn't continue on into later gens?
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Aug 21, 2019 12:42
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I think that might be another reason why Goldeneye has the status that it does; literally everywhere you play seems like a real place, and it's fun (or at least it was fun) to shoot people and avoid being shot in those same places.
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Aug 21, 2019 12:53
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IIRC, they also built the campaign levels as realistic places before figuring out any of the gameplay stuff, which is why there are so many seemingly pointless rooms and areas.Rupert Buttermilk posted:Oddly enough, the multiplayer map 'Library' is the most abstract GE map in the game. 
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Aug 21, 2019 13:02
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90s Cringe Rock posted:I can see PS1 retro being a thing, I'm just wondering how PS2 retro will work. Does that generation really have defining themes or styles that didn't continue on into later gens? Flat textures with no specular/bump/diffuse/normal mapping is a pretty defining feature, as I think the PS2 doesn't have hardware normal mapping. Xbox 360 and PS3 leaned so heavily on those features that it is one of the defining graphical differences compared to the previous generation of consoles, aside from HD of course. Some games on the Xbox and GC did have advanced texture stuff going on, like Doom 3 and Chronicles of Riddick. So if we're talking PS2 specifically, it's the flat textures. Xbox and GC are sort of interchangeable graphics-wise, aside from deliberate stylistic choices. To me, GTA III, Vice City and San Andreas define PS2-era graphics the best, but they were somewhat primitive compared to what the console could actually do. KozmoNaut fucked around with this message at 13:11 on Aug 21, 2019 |
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Aug 21, 2019 13:08
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90s Cringe Rock posted:I can see PS1 retro being a thing, I'm just wondering how PS2 retro will work. Does that generation really have defining themes or styles that didn't continue on into later gens? PS2 has a definite graphical look, and at minimum its the generation where everyone realized two sticks were real good. In terms of genres it was the last generation with score attack sports games, collectathon platformers, and the first one where FPS games started being a real thing people wanted to play on consoles. The generation also had tons of unique exclusive titles from Panzer Dragoon, Pikmin, or Ribbit King.
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Aug 21, 2019 13:09
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The PS2 Silent Hill games look better and nastier than any modern console-era gorefest game. I'm sorry Doom 2016, those blurry grime textures actually served those games really well and sometimes you don't have to model individual intestines edit: Maybe that's not fair, since graphical fidelity has shifted into overdrive in recent years and the more intestines you can render flying everywhere the better according to people who buy video games, but those Silent Hill games look downright dingy in a way that has never, ever been matched.
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Aug 21, 2019 13:12
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CJacobs posted:The PS2 Silent Hill games look better and nastier than any modern console-era gorefest game. I'm sorry Doom 2016, those blurry grime textures actually served those games really well and sometimes you don't have to model individual intestines i'm of the same mind. that recent game live in vivo was creepier than any of those modern graphic spookfests.
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Aug 21, 2019 13:14
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CJacobs posted:The PS2 Silent Hill games look better and nastier than any modern console-era gorefest game. I'm sorry Doom 2016, those blurry grime textures actually served those games really well and sometimes you don't have to model individual intestines Gritty and simple graphics that hint effectively at something really nasty tend to work the imagination more. I feel it's sort of the same thing as primitive practical effects in horror movies vs. hyper-realistic gore in modern nasty-fests. The hyper-gore in your face is just too much.
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Aug 21, 2019 13:16
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CJacobs posted:The PS2 Silent Hill games look better and nastier than any modern console-era gorefest game. I'm sorry Doom 2016, those blurry grime textures actually served those games really well and sometimes you don't have to model individual intestines
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Aug 21, 2019 13:17
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Basically, limitations (whether that be technological or budget-wise) force you to obscure or hide things. And what the player or viewer's eyes can't see, their mind will all-too-happily fill in to a level of detail that no art director could possibly match.
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Aug 21, 2019 13:18
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Doc M posted:IIRC, they also built the campaign levels as realistic places before figuring out any of the gameplay stuff, which is why there are so many seemingly pointless rooms and areas. Same. I know my way between maybe one or two set-pieces, but I absolutely cannot chain them altogether mentally. I just can't. It's the only FPS level I've ever played at length that my brain refuses to map. It's frustrating.
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Aug 21, 2019 13:28
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:I didn't mind the necessary abstraction of Doom levels ('how were people working here? who cares!') likely because I grew up with Wolfenstein, which was even worse for that. But in Halo, specifically the Library, how are we supposed to believe that any of these places had any sort of purpose other than an obstacle course for gunplay? That's what multiplayer is for! Halo gives itself a built in excuse for abstract mapping: incomprehensible ancient aliens did it. The human and covenant ships are comparatively pretty sober with storage spaces, cryo chambers, bridges, docking bays, fusion reactors and such. Except for the very end where it turns out that the majority of the interior space of human battleship is taken up by the jeep stunt course.
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Aug 21, 2019 13:33
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2004ish games in general like HL2, RE4, RTCW, Max Payne 2 and MGS3 have a great strong aesthetic that could be brought back since that's like the point where you could have realistically portioned people with facial expressions but everything is still pretty low detail. its funnier trying to think of a game being nostalgic for 360/ps3 era games by washing out the colours and putting weird slimy shaders on everything
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Aug 21, 2019 13:35
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CJacobs posted:The PS2 Silent Hill games look better and nastier than any modern console-era gorefest game. I'm sorry Doom 2016, those blurry grime textures actually served those games really well and sometimes you don't have to model individual intestines Im not sure this is entirely fair to DOOM considering that it and silent hill are going for very different tones. Silent Hill is "asian horror" while DOOM is "heavy metal album cover"
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Aug 21, 2019 13:37
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Fabricated posted:Something weirds me out is how we really do just chug right on through every single graphic/design style in order for videogames as everyone just ages into boomerdom. I was thinking we'd probably skip the lowpoly/2.5d era and nope we're going right through it. My head will explode if we get a series of PSX-style lowpoly throwbacks with intentionally implemented z-fighting. Yo Noid 2 is a pretty good example. https://noid.pizza/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOStWA4KgOw
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Aug 21, 2019 13:46
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skasion posted:Except for the very end where it turns out that the majority of the interior space of human battleship is taken up by the jeep stunt course. More than the majority, the jeep stunt course is about twice the size of the in-game model for the entire ship from the opening movie.
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Aug 21, 2019 14:29
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