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30 days to do what
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Aug 21, 2019 19:56
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Gort posted:30 days to do what Find an alternative to no deal, so accepting the withdrawal agreement or an agreed proposal which means the backstop isn't needed I guess.
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Aug 21, 2019 19:59
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OwlFancier posted:I think I would agree more that it has very good upsides when modern society is not on course to kill millions of people because people barely notice it's happening. Gort posted:30 days to do what
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Aug 21, 2019 20:00
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30 days to invent a magical border macguffin that solves all the problems but doesn't create a border. Easy.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:00
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I mean he's got 72 days at the most anyway, so I guess 30 isn't much worse?
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Aug 21, 2019 20:02
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Josef bugman posted:Alongside that, does anyone else think about killing themselves every day? It's just illness.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:02
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A Buttery Pastry posted:My point is more that the upsides you do want require all that specialization anyway, so you're gonna need another way to get around the kill billions of people through not caring about ecological disaster problem if you want them. I would like the upsides but the whole point of my argument is that I am, and you should be, prepared to surrender them if you don't like the costs. For example I think it's fairly obvious that a sustainable mode and volume of production is going to cut the upper bounds of healthcare quite significantly, and I'd rather die of something that might have been preventable today than condemn lots of people to die in my stead so that I don't have to. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Aug 21, 2019 |
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Aug 21, 2019 20:04
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Josef bugman posted:Alongside that, does anyone else think about killing themselves every day? It's become such a regular drum beat inside my head that I barely even notice it, but then I'm around normal folks and suddenly realise "Oh nooo, this isn't how folks usually feel"
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Aug 21, 2019 20:04
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People get intrusive thoughts all the time. "What if I pushed that tourist in front of the train?" "What if I set my house on fire and just walked off?" "What if I wrapped this turd in toilet paper, walked back in the office and just slung it right at my boss?" Those are just a quirk of (the tragic misstep of, according to some philosophers) sapience. People just regard them as funny unless you act on them, but they treat intrusive thoughts about suicide differently, when really are they any worse than thinking about murdering someone on the tube and not doing it? One way of working with intrusive thoughts is to follow through the "what would happen if you actually did this?" and discussing the bad things that would happen. That's hard to do with suicide though, because from the point of view of the perception of the thing doing the thoughts that's a bit of a /0 error.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:13
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OwlFancier posted:I would like the upsides but the whole point of my argument is that I am, and you should be, prepared to surrender them if you don't like the costs.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:13
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CoolCab posted:his brain is rotting, we are in full caligula and boy howdy do i sort of get the horse thing now just for reference, i think? this was about 12 hours before he stopped in the middle of an interview and stated "i am the chosen one". forums timestamps are hard
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Aug 21, 2019 20:15
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I have no idea how to even begin working out the cost benefit analysis but that doesn't mean the question isn't valid or necessary, because refusing to think about it is just endorsing the status quo.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:15
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Josef bugman posted:Gonna be honest here folks, not feeling my best atm. I am still on the waiting list for therapy but have been for about a year. Alongside that, does anyone else think about killing themselves every day? It's become such a regular drum beat inside my head that I barely even notice it, but then I'm around normal folks and suddenly realise "Oh nooo, this isn't how folks usually feel" Yeah, I've definitely been there. One of the things I've enjoyed the most about sertraline is just that I have those kind of thoughts a lot less often. It'd not even really be anything serious, just walking along a bridge and see a bus and go "hmmm, I should step in front of that" or making dinner and cutting up some veg and my brain goes "hmmm, that'd look really good buried into your neck". Honestly, that was the part that kinda freaked me out the most, it was so utterly banal. No trigger, no great emotional crisis, just this kinda low nagging "voice" (not a literal voice but just y'know, inner monologue poo poo) telling me to do very stupid poo poo. Exceedingly easy to ignore but constantly there and very boring. Unfortunately if meds don't make it go away (or at least reduce the frequency, I definitely do still get those thoughts but much less often) I can only suggest that you keep trying new ones until something works or you finally get that golden ticket of a place in some sort of therapy. Fingers crossed for you.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:18
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https://twitter.com/How_Upsetting/status/1164255196467355649?s=20
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Aug 21, 2019 20:18
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I know it's the Sun but what the poo poo is this now: quote:Boris Johnson wants Ireland to leave EU trade rules and form a new union with the UK instead after Brexit What brain dead moron is responsible for this kite?
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Aug 21, 2019 20:19
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Aug 21, 2019 20:20
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Letting the public vote on each new EU treaty might have stopped all this loving mess building to a head in the first place.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:22
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Guavanaut posted:People get intrusive thoughts all the time. "What if I pushed that tourist in front of the train?" "What if I set my house on fire and just walked off?" "What if I wrapped this turd in toilet paper, walked back in the office and just slung it right at my boss?" OwlFancier posted:I have no idea how to even begin working out the cost benefit analysis but that doesn't mean the question isn't valid or necessary, because refusing to think about it is just endorsing the status quo. Junior G-man posted:I know it's the Sun but what the poo poo is this now:
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Aug 21, 2019 20:26
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Guavanaut posted:Letting the public vote on each new EU treaty might have stopped all this loving mess building to a head in the first place. Ireland's a big 'un. They rejected the Lisbon Treaty because of right wingers saying the EU was gonna force abortions and gayness and an EU army on them or some such nonsense. e: then just re-ran it until they got the right result, so I guess there's some precedent for that?
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Aug 21, 2019 20:31
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The point that started with it is that I agree with the anarchist approach whereby the nature of a system determines the nature of the people who live in it, and I would specifically suggest that the analysis of class and hierarchy and all that can be extended further into all forms of social separation, particularly through work in specialist fields.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:33
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Borrovan posted:Lots of countries have done that, for constitutional reasons. Also the Lisbon Treaty was only necessary after the French and Dutch outright rejected the new EU constitutions in their referendums, and the LT was the way to sneak most of it in anyway.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:36
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Josef bugman posted:Oh I am already on meds. 100 mg of sertraline per day. I swear London goes through so much of the stuff that the fish in the Thames must be perpetually blissed out. If you're getting those thoughts that often it's worth talking to your GP and seeing if you can be put on something else - the problem with antidepressants is that any one of them generally works on some people some of the time, the trick is to find out which one works on you the best (I'm currently on my 3rd and basically counting the days until I can go back and say "no, this one's no good either, gimme another"). can't wait for Jo Swinson to say she's not going, then the Lib Dem press office "confirm" that actually she meant she'd go but wouldn't necessarily agree to anything, then she goes on Twitter and says no she very definitely isn't going, then she goes anyway
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Aug 21, 2019 20:38
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Junior G-man posted:Also the Lisbon Treaty was only necessary after the French and Dutch outright rejected the new EU constitutions in their referendums, and the LT was the way to sneak most of it in anyway.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:39
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Julio Cruz posted:can't wait for Jo Swinson to say she's not going, then the Lib Dem press office "confirm" that actually she meant she'd go but wouldn't necessarily agree to anything, then she goes on Twitter and says no she very definitely isn't going, then she goes anyway But only to be the first one out the door to pose for cameras and go "Corbyn we cannot trust, we need a steady hand like Ken Clarke".
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Aug 21, 2019 20:42
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Borrovan posted:Lots of countries have done that, for constitutional reasons. It'd get rid of a lot of the "we have no say" bullshit and it might have actually been interesting if both Britain and Ireland rejected Lisbon before Ireland reran. A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah, aren't intrusive thoughts basically the brain just running through various possibilities of what you could do - you're just more likely to notice/dwell on the "Put your hand in boiling water" thought than something which doesn't have any major consequences.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:49
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Borrovan posted:Yeah man constantly. It's weird, because I resolved like half a decade ago that that's definitely not something I'd ever do, and rationally know that it's not even something I want to do - like, even a little bit, I've got a bunch of alive-stuff to do that it'd get right in the way of - but still the thoughts are there. Yeah I haven't even thought of myself as depressed in a long time but occasionally I still get the feeling when I'm driving like "I could drive straight into that loving bridge pillar right there". Again, I'm not suicidal, I don't think it's anything I'd ever actually do but it's somehow kind of comforfing to feel like, if everything really went to poo poo, there's a way out.
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Aug 21, 2019 20:58
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Once you overcome the instinctive drive for self preservation it becomes a lot easier to do it again, yeah. Which is part, I think, of why it doesn't really go away, just out of prominence.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:01
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Intrusive thoughts can be a bugger but don't sweat it, they don't really mean much except that your brain's just dicking around for funsies.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:01
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OwlFancier posted:I have no idea how to even begin working out the cost benefit analysis but that doesn't mean the question isn't valid or necessary, because refusing to think about it is just endorsing the status quo. to clarify - is this a response to the discussion about primitivism or suicidal ideation, seems to work equally well either way tbh e: I'm like 95% sure I have no form of depression, clinical or otherwise, but I think about killing myself all the time because it's an interesting thought problem when I'm bored. Don't mean to trivialise people with genuine suicidal ideation, that must be lovely, just saying that it can be a perfectly harmless pastime
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Aug 21, 2019 21:06
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Yeah it's also so common there's a name for it: "Call of the void", or if you're a psychologist/scientist etc. they call it "High place phenomenon" because it's really common to experience it when you're up high on a cliff edge, or a building balcony or whatever. If you google for those, there are some good articles/explanations. Some saying stuff like "The urge to jump affirms the urge to live"... it's like you might focus on the "I could jump" part of your thoughts but what you should actually focus on is the fact that you don't - that actually tells you more.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:07
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Failed Imagineer posted:I think about killing myself all the time because it's an interesting thought problem when I'm bored. It's a void world after all. WhatEvil posted:Yeah it's also so common there's a name for it: "Call of the void", or if you're a psychologist/scientist etc. they call it "High place phenomenon" because it's really common to experience it when you're up high on a cliff edge, or a building balcony or whatever. I bet there's a hell of a survivorship bias there though.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:21
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I like corbyn when he's in full bastard mode. He's just casually handing out the rope for chukip and the libdems to hang themselves with.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:28
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Guavanaut posted:There's some schools of psychology that say that simply having a reliable exit on hand decreases suicidal ideation because of this. Probs don't actually go out buying any rope tho. Studies show that (shockingly) more barriers to killing yourself make it less likely that people will kill themselves. Idk why this doesn't come up more in the gun control debate in America, their suicide rate is loving shocking
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Aug 21, 2019 21:30
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WhatEvil posted:Yeah I haven't even thought of myself as depressed in a long time but occasionally I still get the feeling when I'm driving like "I could drive straight into that loving bridge pillar right there". I do this, with similar background thoughts. But then I remember I'm driving a Volvo and would probably end up surviving, but killing someone else by mistake. Which quickly puts paid to those thoughts, so that works I guess.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:37
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Borrovan posted:Without meaning to get too morbid, I've still got the rope I picked up years ago before someone very fortunately spotted the warning signs & intervened. Just having it in the back of the cupboard nips any serious suicidal ideation right in the bud, because whenever I do think I might actually want to part of me says "loving do it then, it's easy" & I realise I do not When Philip Nitschke was talking about making automated self-euthanasia more available to allow dignified exit for terminally ill people a lot of people were saying how horrible he was for driving people to suicide, but one of the counterpoints was that giving people a near 100% reliable exit but demanding they answer yes to a bunch of questions first gave some people a new lease of life. Also the US should probably stop driving people into unpayable healthcare debt too.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:40
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Bobstar posted:I do this, with similar background thoughts. But then I remember I'm driving a Volvo and would probably end up surviving, but killing someone else by mistake. Which quickly puts paid to those thoughts, so that works I guess. Yeah, part of what always stopped me was the idea of the poor bastard train driver.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:45
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I think it's generally believed that suicidal ideation is different to other forms of intrusive thoughts, though. I certainly remember sitting through a lecture where somebody was talking quite persuasively about their research (I think possibly this paper) teasing apart the distinction between suicidal ideation and actual suicide attempts, and how both ideation and attempts are (perhaps not surprisingly) quite good predictors of actual suicide. just lol if you're not living at least stage 1 every day in tyool 2019 Guavanaut posted:I guess there's a balance between reliability (suicide by firearm is about 80% successful, and the remaining 20% are... not pleasant) and instantaneousness (modern firearms don't take a large number of involved steps to use them (80%) fatally). TACD fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Aug 21, 2019 |
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Aug 21, 2019 21:46
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Some people might describe keeping people between wanting to die and being able to die as a circle of hell but it's actually "effective mental health policy"
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Aug 21, 2019 21:48
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TACD posted:IDK, asphyxiation with carbon monoxide or some other inert gas has always seemed pretty surefire and peaceful to me It's that delay between committing to the idea and it being fatal (or very unpleasant) that you don't get with a firearm.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:54
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https://twitter.com/LibDems/status/1164132713605095424 This is just sad, I seriously loving hope no media outlets refer to them as 'shadow ministers'.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:54
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