|
The whips have considerately provided a big pile of coats for all the Tory MPs to hide under while it all works out e- The numeral "8" is sometimes used in informal writing and Internet slang to represent the syllable "ate", as in writing "H8" for "hate", or "congratul8ions" for "congratulations". Avril Lavigne's song "Sk8er Boi" uses this convention in the title. baka kaba fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Sep 2, 2019 |
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 02:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 12:55 |
|
|
I'm reasonably sure at this point that Boris actually wants parliament to stop no deal so he can go into the general election with a betrayed by remainer traitors narrative.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 02:07
|
|
|
marktheando posted:I'm reasonably sure at this point that Boris actually wants parliament to stop no deal so he can go into the general election with a betrayed by remainer traitors narrative. Its not a bad play. Hes not going to be able to govern with a majority of 1 (created by a deal with another party) and going into an election after a chaotic brexit is probably not the brightest idea. I mean, after brexit has happened whose to say the brexit or die people show up to vote (Other than they're right bastards and it always seems the right bastard vote is out in full force?)?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 02:12
|
|
|
I don't get the point of proroguing parliament then? Otherwise Boris could just wait for anti no deal legislation, then demand an election via FTPA to "defend brexit". Proroguing parliament really pisses off his opponents after that, which you'd think would be worse for turnout in an election than the alternative.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 02:24
|
|
|
Nothingtoseehere posted:I don't get the point of proroguing parliament then? Otherwise Boris could just wait for anti no deal legislation, then demand an election via FTPA to "defend brexit". Proroguing parliament really pisses off his opponents after that, which you'd think would be worse for turnout in an election than the alternative. Plays well to the Brexiteers whose votes he wants to be pissing off remainers and being seen to do all he can to deliver brexit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 02:37
|
|
|
marktheando posted:I'm reasonably sure at this point that Boris actually wants parliament to stop no deal so he can go into the general election with a betrayed by remainer traitors narrative. It’s an election he basically wants to lose as well. Or at least have to end up in a coalition with the Lib Dems again. It feels like the Tory-LD coalition is actually the perfect form of government for these cunts - have free range to murder the poor but be able to blame the Liberals for not passing the insane madness their racist base thirsts for. At any rate, an unexpected Tory majority would be a disaster for them just like it was last time. Unfortunately, it would be a disaster for everyone else too.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 02:57
|
|
|
Boris' strategy, such as it is, involves playing chicken with the eu while pretending that its outside forces (remainers, the eu etc) stopping him getting a good deal (a good deal being the eu giving us everything we want).
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 03:05
|
|
|
If we do see no deal expect to see everyone except, say, people who voted against theresa may's deal take the blame
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 03:12
|
|
|
Comrade Fakename posted:It’s an election he basically wants to lose as well. Or at least have to end up in a coalition with the Lib Dems again. It feels like the Tory-LD coalition is actually the perfect form of government for these cunts - have free range to murder the poor but be able to blame the Liberals for not passing the insane madness their racist base thirsts for. At any rate, an unexpected Tory majority would be a disaster for them just like it was last time. boris still cares about parliament?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 05:08
|
|
|
Nothingtoseehere posted:I don't get the point of proroguing parliament then? Otherwise Boris could just wait for anti no deal legislation, then demand an election via FTPA to "defend brexit". Proroguing parliament really pisses off his opponents after that, which you'd think would be worse for turnout in an election than the alternative. The (multiple) points are that it's part of a performance to indicate to the pro-Brexit voting bloc that he's prepared to do anything to achieve Brexit, to pave the way for a general election where the theme is Johnson vs an obstructive Remainer parliament and to push his opponents into the situation where they have to take the actions that would precipitate a general election. Johnson's clearly taken a leaf out of the Trump handbook in that he sees his way to a majority through riling up the 40% of the electorate who might support him as much as possible and dividing and demoralising everyone else. As nasty and reckless as this is, I can see the logic behind it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 05:35
|
|
|
Pistol_Pete posted:The (multiple) points are that it's part of a performance to indicate to the pro-Brexit voting bloc that he's prepared to do anything to achieve Brexit, to pave the way for a general election where the theme is Johnson vs an obstructive Remainer parliament and to push his opponents into the situation where they have to take the actions that would precipitate a general election. I don't disagree with you, but I also think it's clear to most people that Johnson's allies are - even in the context of an exceptionally shallow pool of talent - among the least talented/competent people in the Conservative Party. I also think that people who want the hostility and rage from their politicians have got just that from whatever party Farage is leading today. If Johnson goes full fash, the Brexit Party will have to find votes from somewhere, and that'll probably be by doubling-down and lurching even further to the right. So Johnson's at risk of losing any 'moderates' by going too far to the right and potentially not gaining enough fascists to compensate. Of course, this is Hell World, so who the gently caress knows what'll happen.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 06:07
|
|
|
In that case it hinges on whether and to what extent brexiteers accept that Johnson has done all he can. It's certainly going to be harder to say "Look, Johnson's not really a Brexiteer, vote for us instead." if he's trashed Parliament in pursuit of No Deal. Not that that will stop BXP necessarily, but in some respects I think this is a retread of Cameron calling the referendum in the first place; an attempt by a Tory leader to guard against being outflanked from the right. And it'll probably end just as well because this is Hell World.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 06:37
|
|
|
This is a big play by Boris, and he's doing it fairly well to be honest, he knows he doesn't have a chance at the moment, and deselecting all his rebels and then replacing them with bojo loyalists is a smart move. A GE is a risk, but a "they are stealing your brexits, and they have forced me to do this!" Is the best chance to stop a Tory collapse. Of course labour also need to rid themselves of their rebels, but of course, they won't go as draconian as the Big B, so we may get another round of blareites hanging around.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 06:41
|
|
|
Private Speech posted:Aside from everything else I just don't see immediate immigration enforcement as realistic - the UK currently indefinitely (though for the majority, albeit a slim one, it's only a couple months) locks up about 30k people per year for eventual deportation. This is from a few pages back but turning EU nationals' immigration status gray and uncertain makes them extremely easy for businesses to take advantage of. The goal is probably not to deport them all but to make their lives precarious so that they are easier to exploit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 06:44
|
|
|
Yeah, to unify the Brexit vote, Johnson has to go all-out to prove "he really means it", which entails extraordinarily reckless speech and behaviour. And yes, this does mean that he is taking the same risky path as David Cameron, who found out too late that he was encouraging political forces that weren't ultimately in his control.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 06:48
|
|
|
Grey Hunter posted:This is a big play by Boris, and he's doing it fairly well to be honest, he knows he doesn't have a chance at the moment, and deselecting all his rebels and then replacing them with bojo loyalists is a smart move. I agree, but it's still a huge risk. They don't exactly have a big set of up-and-comers and if someone rebels because they are in a Remain constituency, and/or if the exiled person decides to stick it out and try to win as an independent (or joins another party), things could get mighty dicey for them. If they had a decent bench they could parachute in it might be another matter, but they have all the depth of the Windsor's gene pool. It's probably still his best play if he's going to keep on this path, but whether it works... (and God help them if the opposition can put together even a non-aggression pacts under an anti-NDB banner, even in just a couple of seats.)
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 07:03
|
|
|
Ms Adequate posted:I agree, but it's still a huge risk. They don't exactly have a big set of up-and-comers and if someone rebels because they are in a Remain constituency, and/or if the exiled person decides to stick it out and try to win as an independent (or joins another party), things could get mighty dicey for them. Yes, and hopefully it all goes tits up for him, but at this stage, SOMETHING has to be done to break the deadlock, and this does seem like his best move. Not supporting him, just acknowledging its a good play. My rat bastard Tory Father-in-law was saying he's emailed him twice. I killed the conversation by saying was it to stop him being a fascist and avoiding parliament. Grey Hunter fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Sep 2, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 07:51
|
|
|
Just want to amend my lawposting from yesterday based on something I heard on the radio (didn't quite understand the question): I posted yesterday that it's unambiguously illegal for Government to defy an Act of Parliament, which is true. A Bill doesn't become an Act until it receives royal assent. By convention, the monarch has to provide assent for any Bill that is passed up by both houses. Except on the advice of her ministers. The last time the monarch refused royal assent was the Scottish Militia Bill in 1708, at which point it was already considered settled that the monarch had to provide assent for any Bill whatsoever. It was only because after that particular Bill was passed it became known that a French warfleet was sailing towards Scotland (y'know, their historic allies in the ongoing battle against the perfidious English) that everyone suddenly considered that maybe the monarch can refuse assent if everyone's basically in agreement that it's a really good idea. This was the first and only time the "on the advice of her ministers" exception was even considered. Basically, Boris can just say DON'T SIGN THAT LIZ before anything passed by Parliament becomes an Act, and a legal challenge to that would be very uncertain. ...not that any of this is likely to be an issue, because of course the Queen would exercise her discretion this time, where her own ministers are themselves blatantly defying conventi- *starts making GBS threads uncontrollably out of own mouth*
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 08:16
|
|
|
Wouldn't it still be up to bercow whether the government is in contempt of parliament?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 08:20
|
|
|
Pistol_Pete posted:Yeah, to unify the Brexit vote, Johnson has to go all-out to prove "he really means it", which entails extraordinarily reckless speech and behaviour. Also he needs to show the EU he really really means it, or the eurocrats won't believe him enough to ditch all their own priorities. Apparently they don't read UK news i guess, or they might figure it out AI think Boris is much better prepared for the shitshow endgame than cameron was. He's spent almost as much time trying to shift the blame for no deal brexit as he's spent trying to achieve it
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 08:23
|
|
|
OwlFancier posted:Wouldn't it still be up to bercow whether the government is in contempt of parliament? ...and nor does anyone else in definitive terms, May's government was literally the first time in history that's happened so it's all a bit ambiguous. What happened then though is that Parliament decided that the Government was in contempt of Parliament. Bercow just decides that there's a case to answer or something, and it goes to a vote. Barry Foster posted:There are no rules, only power and those willing to wield it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 08:26
|
|
|
Jaeluni Asjil posted:Do you mean Stephen Milligan, perchance? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 08:33
|
|
|
Boris cosplaying Trump and using his strategy sounds mighty plausible, and I have a terrible feeling it's going to be mighty effective.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 08:44
|
|
|
Barry Foster posted:Boris cosplaying Trump and using his strategy sounds mighty plausible, and I have a terrible feeling it's going to be mighty effective. I don't see it myself. Not because of any innate goodness about the British character, but because there is only so much you can do having been in charge for so long and also having to cope with how many people seem to hate you.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 09:09
|
|
|
Josef bugman posted:I don't see it myself. Not because of any innate goodness about the British character, but because there is only so much you can do having been in charge for so long and also having to cope with how many people seem to hate you. I genuinely appreciate your repeated attempts to assuage my worst fears itt, bman. I probably shouldn't trust my gut feelings.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 09:13
|
|
|
Also unlike trump he's going to be going up against a competent left wing opposition with actually good policies. Though I'm not particularly keen on running the last dying howl of the lead posioning generation vs socialism. I wish there some way to off the buggers a bit more quietly.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 09:20
|
|
|
Also Dominic Cummings is a rationalist so his plan is going to be some twelve dimensional chess thing that falls flat on its face as soon as something he didn't expect happens
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 09:29
|
|
|
I think if Boris calls an election before Brexit day we're heading for another hung parliament. He'll push a narrative of 'rebels are trying to undermine our negotiations with the EU', which provides a tissue-thin veneer of legitimacy that he's trying to avoid a No Deal and allows remain-leaning Tories to still vote for him. Meanwhile he can hoover up all the BXP votes based on his actions in the last few weeks. Unlike May, Boris has no issue with promising unicorns & rainbows for any other topic Labour are likely to compete on, as recent headlines show. With our current media I'm genuinely concerned that nuanced and detailed left wing policies will lose out to simplistic promises of tax cuts and more public sector resources that the Tories have no intention on delivering. See: how Trump promised to make all working class richer and how many are still waiting on it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 09:34
|
|
|
Guavanaut posted:I read it as David Miliband. Stephen Mangan to play David Miliband? And Adam Godley as Rory Stewart, you know is makes sense
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 09:36
|
|
|
Bobstar posted:Stephen Mangan to play David Miliband? Have you been checked for prosopagnosia?
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 09:37
|
|
|
Qwertycoatl posted:Also Dominic Cummings is a rationalist so his plan is going to be some twelve dimensional chess thing that falls flat on its face as soon as something he didn't expect happens *Dom Cummies stamping his feet and screaming* What do you mean the public isn’t just all rational actors I can model? <  >
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 09:40
|
|
|
xtothez posted:I think if Boris calls an election before Brexit day we're heading for another hung parliament. He'll push a narrative of 'rebels are trying to undermine our negotiations with the EU', which provides a tissue-thin veneer of legitimacy that he's trying to avoid a No Deal and allows remain-leaning Tories to still vote for him. Meanwhile he can hoover up all the BXP votes based on his actions in the last few weeks. Unlike May, Boris has no issue with promising unicorns & rainbows for any other topic Labour are likely to compete on, as recent headlines show. With our current media I'm genuinely concerned that nuanced and detailed left wing policies will lose out to simplistic promises of tax cuts and more public sector resources that the Tories have no intention on delivering. See: how Trump promised to make all working class richer and how many are still waiting on it. Again, this pre supposes that the working class will vote Tory as much as they have after nine years of being bummed in the gob. Trump pulled it off because Obama did gently caress all for the working classes for the most part, the working classes can only look at the tories as Obama in this situation.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 09:42
|
|
|
Rupert of Hentzau posted:I first read Pyramids in 1997, and it wasn't until last year that I realised the Assassin's Guild exam is a piss-take of driving tests. That's the great thing about most of the Discworld books; you can read them and reread them over the years and you'll still find the odd joke popping out decades later that you just weren't equipped to understand until then. Not to derail on Pratchett again, but the most jaw-dropping joke he hid, and didn't even draw attention to, is that two of the rival families in Ankh-Morpork are the Venturis and the Selachis. Venturi is a type of jet engine, and Selachii is an order of shark.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 09:43
|
|
|
Failed Imagineer posted:Have you been checked for prosopagnosia? Hey!  OK, you're right. Spike Milligan to play David Miliband.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 09:48
|
|
|
Sanitary Naptime posted:Again, this pre supposes that the working class will vote Tory as much as they have after nine years of being bummed in the gob. The working classes have spent the last 30 years being told it's the EU doing the bumming, and that lie worked on enough people to not only let Leave win in the first place but (narrowly) gave May another two years loving about at the steering wheel. This election would be framed as everyone's very last chance to get free, versus a traitorous remain agenda that has spent the last 3 years subverting democracy. Boris will also unashamedly promise the Earth knowing there's not a drat thing anyone can do when he fails to deliver, because Brexit is all his base cares about. I don't think it'll fool enough people to increase Boris' majority, but enough to prevent Labour gaining their own majority.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 10:01
|
|
|
Barry Foster posted:Boris cosplaying Trump and using his strategy sounds mighty plausible, and I have a terrible feeling it's going to be mighty effective. I dunno. Trump could finalize his takeover by giving stakeholders what they wanted: regulations cut, lots and lots of fresh government expenditures and tax cuts and handouts to filthy and dying industries. Sooner or later PM Boris would need to actually deliver stuff for them I'd imagine? Unless the tory party's entirely funded by crisis capitalists and dead people i suppose
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 10:05
|
|
|
xtothez posted:I think if Boris calls an election before Brexit day we're heading for another hung parliament. He'll push a narrative of 'rebels are trying to undermine our negotiations with the EU', which provides a tissue-thin veneer of legitimacy that he's trying to avoid a No Deal and allows remain-leaning Tories to still vote for him. Meanwhile he can hoover up all the BXP votes based on his actions in the last few weeks. Unlike May, Boris has no issue with promising unicorns & rainbows for any other topic Labour are likely to compete on, as recent headlines show. With our current media I'm genuinely concerned that nuanced and detailed left wing policies will lose out to simplistic promises of tax cuts and more public sector resources that the Tories have no intention on delivering. See: how Trump promised to make all working class richer and how many are still waiting on it. I think picking an Objectivist as chancellor and then treating him like utter poo poo because you're a racist will severely limit your ability to make spending pledges. The Saj has shown himself to be increasingly happy to say 'actually, no, we won't do that, because y'all are parasites'.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 10:05
|
|
|
Ms Adequate posted:In that case it hinges on whether and to what extent brexiteers accept that Johnson has done all he can. It's certainly going to be harder to say "Look, Johnson's not really a Brexiteer, vote for us instead." if he's trashed Parliament in pursuit of No Deal. Not that that will stop BXP necessarily, but in some respects I think this is a retread of Cameron calling the referendum in the first place; an attempt by a Tory leader to guard against being outflanked from the right. Farage has floated the idea of an electoral pact. So expect BXP standing only in Labour constituencies in the North and standing down in Tory seats, and thus we end up in Hellworld with a stonking Tory majority plus BXP get like 30 seats, all hail Norsefire? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 10:08
|
|
|
xtothez posted:The working classes have spent the last 30 years being told it's the EU doing the bumming, and that lie worked on enough people to not only let Leave win in the first place but (narrowly) gave May another two years loving about at the steering wheel. This election would be framed as everyone's very last chance to get free, versus a traitorous remain agenda that has spent the last 3 years subverting democracy. Boris will also unashamedly promise the Earth knowing there's not a drat thing anyone can do when he fails to deliver, because Brexit is all his base cares about. Yeah, I get where you’re coming from, I just don’t see the brexit party being as weak an antagonist to the conservatives to not gently caress them hard in a lot of areas. They’re always going to veer for the harder side of things, they’re not tainted by previous failed governance and the tories keep being shown up. I reckon if this week is Interesting Times enough for the tories they’ll just come across as looking incapable to deal with it, handing Farage a stronger vote share and seriously splitting the right wing vote. gently caress knows really because the right have never been significantly split in the UK so it could go any way, but I do reckon there’s a chance of a labour majority still.
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 10:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 12:55 |
|
|
https://twitter.com/theousherwood/status/1168432907922358273
|
|
#
?
Sep 2, 2019 10:08
|
|