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Doctor Spaceman posted:What if that scene happens after the HoX stuff we've seen? After this last issue there’s no question about this. He began New Avengers the same way. Setting up something (Everything dies) then catching up to it some issues later.
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Sep 11, 2019 01:26
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Strange Poon posted:Except it isn't until after Moira's 7th life that she realizes Sentinels are inevitable, so knowing that they must target Nimrod specifically has to come after. It isn't until Moira's 9th that she learns what pivotal moment Nimrod is "conceived" at, hence the destroy Mother Mold at all costs suicide mission. Yes,she kills all Trasks in her seventh life ,but realizes sentenals are inevitable so she tries something else.
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Sep 11, 2019 01:28
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Skwirl posted:Yes,she kills all Trasks in her seventh life ,but realizes sentenals are inevitable so she tries something else. This was part of my "evidence" for X^1 being VI. But I think I'm reading her "inevitable" comment wrong. I think it specifically refers to the general idea of humanity using robots to kill mutants. Killing the Trasks just meant another group developed the kill-bots. I don't necessarily think she meant the man-machine supremacy was inevitable. That's how I read it the first time but now I think I was wrong. Maybe X^1 Xavier doesn't know about the resurrection pods yet? Maybe that's why he's so upset? Maybe Sinister- it's gotta be Sinister right?- shows up (via Moira?) after this and says, "Here, here's your army back!" I think Moira's comment about changing the rules could certainly mean making mutants functionally immortal via rebirth pods is her solution? I'm still on-board with X^1 = VI, though. And X^3 is X. And X^0 is XI.
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Sep 11, 2019 02:06
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I'm also waiting for X^4 to show up.
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Sep 11, 2019 02:11
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The question that's been sitting on my mind since Moira's reveal is what happens when Moira dies a final death? Everything just resets, right? Mutants go back to being wholesale slaughtered and oppressed just sans Moira. Do they have to cure Moira before she dies? Does she have some kind of plan for when she dies what could be her final death? I feel this is what the 6th life is likely to be about. It's probably when she comes up with a contingency or she concocts some grand scheme that we haven't noticed yet.
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Sep 11, 2019 02:14
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Strange Poon posted:The question that's been sitting on my mind since Moira's reveal is what happens when Moira dies a final death? Everything just resets, right? Mutants go back to being wholesale slaughtered and oppressed just sans Moira. Do they have to cure Moira before she dies? Does she have some kind of plan for when she dies what could be her final death? I'm still assuming that the worlds exist after Moira's death. So Life I played out a certain way and is still theoretically going as Universe 54,312 or whatever. I think it'd be weird if the universe died with her. SO because of that, I'm of the opinion that doing anything other than committing suicide prior to her power manifestation is ethically wrong because she's leaving worlds to die just so she can create a "good" one for mutants. But I think knowing that the world does continue beyond her, her goal is to create the "good" world then she can die and... I dunno? She can do the whole kill-yourself-before-powers-show-up but then all she's doing is creating another poo poo world! Honestly, the more you think about it the less good idea her plan is but if all you care about is the 616 or whatever, then hopefully her plan works? E: an eternal coma theoretically solves this.
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Sep 11, 2019 03:35
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danbanana posted:I'm still assuming that the worlds exist after Moira's death. So Life I played out a certain way and is still theoretically going as Universe 54,312 or whatever. I think it'd be weird if the universe died with her. Might be a plot point later where they pull mutants from the other time lines.
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Sep 11, 2019 03:55
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Djarum posted:Might be a plot point later where they pull mutants from the other time lines. Oh poo poo that's good. Maybe Krakoa is linked across Moira timelines?
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Sep 11, 2019 04:06
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danbanana posted:Oh poo poo that's good. Maybe Krakoa is linked across Moira timelines? Well they did introduce a lot of new characters which seems odd if they are never going to use them. Also we haven’t seen Legion at all which seems odd considering you know all the major players involved.
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Sep 11, 2019 04:36
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Seriously though, what was the status quo on the X books when Moira died? I think that's gonna be super relevant.
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Sep 11, 2019 04:43
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One interesting out that Hickman built in is that Moira can choose to be passive and the whole world is unchanged. In life 4, crazy poo poo happened at least until the Phoenix Prive and AvX. Probably beyond that too. The only reason I really think this is Life 10 is that Legion and Proteus exist.
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Sep 11, 2019 05:29
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Billzasilver posted:One interesting out that Hickman built in is that Moira can choose to be passive and the whole world is unchanged. In life 4, crazy poo poo happened at least until the Phoenix Prive and AvX. Probably beyond that too. Yeah the fact that it's the only one singled out with poo poo that matches the Marvel Universe makes it clear that the "present day" stuff is life 10 or at least that's what we're supposed to think. People keep looking for the twist in all the wrong places, I feel.
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Sep 11, 2019 06:08
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Sinister is supposedly showing up soon. We already know it's a routine for him to make clones. Xavier can upload the dead's psyche into them. I imagine it's where it's going next.
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Sep 11, 2019 08:47
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Blockhouse posted:Hickman has explicitly stated that he wants this to be standalone. Inexplicably making the book revolve around the Maker would make it very hard to be a standalone. I was not aware of that. It just seemed like something he'd do, what with how connected his previous saga was.
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Sep 11, 2019 12:21
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Saoshyant posted:Sinister is supposedly showing up soon. We already know it's a routine for him to make clones. Xavier can upload the dead's psyche into them. I imagine it's where it's going next. Get loving hyped for today buddy because Hickman obviously loved Secret Wars Sinister.
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Sep 11, 2019 13:11
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the crazydaysandnights-style blind items were very very good
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Sep 11, 2019 13:57
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drat, I wanna know who he's referring to in all the Sinister Secrets but I don't think I know enough X-men history. So far I got: #3 Wanda #5 Logan, and Jean? #7 Scott, Alex #8 Apocalypse #9 Kitty and Peter?
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Sep 11, 2019 14:49
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Very cool stuff, I'm very okay with Hickman sinister being the standard. Also trying to figure out the secrets list but coming up short on a lot of these. Curious about the initial 4 horsemen. One looks like firelord, another like they have a shi'ar hairstyle. Can't figure out the other two.
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Sep 11, 2019 15:09
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CubanMissile posted:drat, I wanna know who he's referring to in all the Sinister Secrets but I don't think I know enough X-men history. So far I got: 3 is Madelyn 5 is Logan, but Jean doesn't have a kid 6 is Cassandra Nova (progeria) or Ernst 7 is the Summers family. Cyclops, Havok, and Vulcan are explicitly referenced. Maybe ADAM X THE XTREME (i hope because I am dumb) 8 is Apoc. I originally thought of the Horsemen from Fall of the Mutants but Krakoa's story changed that 10 is Xavier doesn't know that the Sinister to whom he was talking is no longer around edit: I forgot that they've called Wanda a pretender. That's more likely than Madelyn Beerdeer fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 11, 2019 15:38
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Beerdeer posted:
5 is Logan and Mariko Yashida, I think.
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Sep 11, 2019 16:34
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Did Mariko ever have a kid?
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Sep 11, 2019 16:50
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Kingtheninja posted:Did Mariko ever have a kid? Sort of. If I remember correctly, Logan adopted a girl named Amiko in the wake of a disaster (the dragon attack on Japan that happened when the X-Men returned to Earth following the first Secret Wars), and that girl ended up first in Mariko's care, then in Yukio's. There'd also be plenty of room for Mariko to have ended up pregnant at some point, especially when you take multiple timelines into consideration.
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Sep 11, 2019 16:55
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Beerdeer posted:
Wanda isn't dead and she didn't make a deal with the devil. also, was there a typo in Secret 10? as written, it seems to suggest that the mutant Sinister was created by someone else, but it might be meant to say that another mutant is under Sinister's control
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Sep 11, 2019 17:09
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Skwirl posted:Seriously though, what was the status quo on the X books when Moira died? I think that's gonna be super relevant. She died around ‘99-‘00. It was kind of meant to be a capstone for 90’s events at clean the slate for the new writers coming on.
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Sep 11, 2019 17:13
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Something I noticed on a re read of the Moira's lives issue. The four horsemen in that issue look like the same as r "original" ones. The only difference is one switched out for Moira. There's one that looks like anubis, one with the fire staff, and one that has the Egyptian head dress thing. spoilers for today's issue.
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Sep 11, 2019 17:17
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CubanMissile posted:drat, I wanna know who he's referring to in all the Sinister Secrets but I don't think I know enough X-men history. So far I got: #1: Sinister himself, I assume. #2: Jumbo Carnation, the mutant fashion designer who appeared briefly in Morrison's run, and who died of a drug overdose in his first appearance. I remember him having a weirdly outsized presence in later stories, considering that he was basically created to die to introduce the Sublime subplot. #3: Yeah, that's Madelyn. #4: I don't think that's been set up yet. #5: Logan and Jean, if you assume Nate and/or Rachel Grey count as kids. Then again, there are also a couple of weird signs in this thing that this isn't the Jean we're used to, like how she's wearing the old Marvel Girl suit and nobody seems to be taking her seriously. #6: Sounds like Ernst, but I'm curious what the "samples" are. Could be whatever Sinister was planning to make a new body for Martha from, or it could be the mutant embryos from the Jeff Lemire run. #7: Scott, Alex, and Gabriel Summers, with an Adam-X joke thrown in there. #8: Apocalypse and his Four Horsemen. I'd be curious who the "originals" are. It could be the '80s version with Archangel, the 11th-century version from Remender's Uncanny Avengers, or some as-yet-unrevealed version. #9: The mention of kids and fireworks makes me think of Jubilee, but she's never really had an official love interest. It being a "non-couple" crosses Kitty and Peter off the list, and Alex has already been the subject of a secret, so that means it's probably not him and Lorna. I suppose it could be Kitty and Doug, since they were best friends back in the Claremont days, but have barely interacted since Doug came back from the dead in Necrosha. Maybe Jubilee and Monet? #10: I'm gonna go ahead and say that the happy Sinister who Xavier allied with isn't who he seems to be. Could be Sublime, or Cassandra Nova, or something else.
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Sep 11, 2019 17:25
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Oh, I take that back. I forgot the Mutant Island is specifically mentioned so it's likely someone in the present and a mutant. If we want to get super technical, Cable counts as Jean's kid, right? e: ^
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Sep 11, 2019 17:36
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Wanderer posted:
Jumbo had an outsized presence because it wasn’t known he had died of an overdose at the time. He OD’d while being attacked by some bigots so it was thought they injected him with something that made his powers go haywire. He was used as a martyr by Quire and his other rioters as an example of X-men being selective about who they protect. As for Jubilee, if it is her, then it’s probably with Chamber since they were starting something at the end of the latest Gen X run.
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Sep 11, 2019 17:49
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#9's "fireworks" reference could also be Dazzler. Her and... Longshot? #5... Are Jean and Scott still married? I legitimately don't know. When both people in a marriage are both dead at the same time, does that dissolve it? #3 is definitely Maddy. "Left behind" implies another kid? The Krakoa origin story has some interesting phrases/images. The Twilight Sword is Surtur's. Are those Fire Giants from Muspelheim? The helmets and pitchforks, though, look Atlantean... Doug's infecting of Krakoa was purposely shown and happens before he even gets more info on why he's there. I'm curious if there's something about that. Kind of a place-holder issue with some small revelations. I thought the X^3 stuff could have been shorter; I'm not sure we needed re-explanation about what the Phalanx are and why they came to Earth but whatever.
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Sep 11, 2019 18:39
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I would say the wolverine one would be Maddy Pryor because of the time between fall of mutants and inferno, but it mentions the island as well which just makes it confusing.
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Sep 11, 2019 19:23
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Kingtheninja posted:I would say the wolverine one would be Maddy Pryor because of the time between fall of mutants and inferno, but it mentions the island as well which just makes it confusing. I think the island reference is to Krakoa. I'm assuming this gossip column takes place at or around X^1 time period, which would mean that Wolvie and the mystery mom are currently hooking up on Krakoa and the dad/hubby know about it. Of course, the little filename thingy in the corners literally says LIES so maybe a lot of this is half-truths? Or just... gossip. The X-Love-Triangle would be red meat for a gossip columnist and any interaction with Wolvie and Jean would lead to insinuations that Scott was cucked...
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Sep 11, 2019 19:52
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well this lends credence to the Xavier-brainwashed-everyone-to-keep-the-timeline-unchanged theory, at least we know that now. Could the married couple with wolverine be the Hudson’s? #9 asks if the universe is ready, so this couple must be a pretty big deal. Secret #10 implies that it’s someone either very old in X-Men history or marvel history as a whole. Selene? Apocalypse? Sublime? Cassandra Nova?
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Sep 11, 2019 20:44
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Billzasilver posted:
Am I interpreting this one wrong? I think #10 is in reference to the mutant-DNA'd Sinister in this issue who makes the deal with Xavier. It's just a wink that Sinister already knew about Moira and Xavier's plans... maybe via Magneto? That smile in the next panel is obvious. It also means Xavier wiping his mind of the visit wasn't going to work since he already knew about the plan... MORE PROOF THIS IS VI, I SAY.
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Sep 11, 2019 21:19
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Jubilee was supposedly an omega level mutant, or had the potential to become one during the initial run of Generation X.
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Sep 11, 2019 21:22
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I thought we didn't use spoiler tags once the issue was out? #6 is presumably about Cassandra Nova, but given the use of "gifted" and swapping samples, probably about the Mutant Cure storyline she was involved with in Whedon's Astonishing X-Men (first arc title: Gifted) as opposed to Morrison's New X-Men. #9 I assumed was Cannonball and Sunspot, though it doesn't line up perfectly for them (or anyone else, really).
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Sep 11, 2019 21:26
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On clue #5 was there any tension between Madelyne Pryor and Wolverine? Obviously I know about her and Havok. Heather Hudson maybe also possible. Mutant Island makes this harder unless we assume it is Australia?Edge & Christian posted:#6 is presumably about Cassandra Nova, but given the use of "gifted" and swapping samples, probably about the Mutant Cure storyline she was involved with in Whedon's Astonishing X-Men (first arc title: Gifted) as opposed to Morrison's New X-Men. Edge & Christian posted:#9 I assumed was Cannonball and Sunspot, though it doesn't line up perfectly for them (or anyone else, really). danbanana posted:Am I interpreting this one wrong? I think #10 is in reference to the mutant-DNA'd Sinister in this issue who makes the deal with Xavier. It's just a wink that Sinister already knew about Moira and Xavier's plans... maybe via Magneto? That smile in the next panel is obvious. It also means Xavier wiping his mind of the visit wasn't going to work since he already knew about the plan... edit on 7: I actually do wonder if there could be a 4th Summers brother. The original hint that there was one a third is from Sinister, and then when they revealed Gabriel there didn't seem to be any way that Sinister would have known about Gabriel. Although according to clue 10 he has been watching for a long time, so I guess that could finally be explained. Fritzler fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 11, 2019 21:46
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I still don't understand how you can insist this is life 6 when it's only happening because of stuff that happened in life 9 like they sure are spending a lot of time detailing and setting up a status quo that doesn't loving matter if it's not the life that they've literally built up as "Moira and Charles do whatever it takes" and also just went out of the way to show that Charles literally had sleeper agents set up so they wouldn't interfere with the timeline until he said so
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Sep 11, 2019 22:26
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Out of personal bias, I say #9 is Cable and Domino 
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Sep 11, 2019 22:26
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I don't think I like the anime soul sword design. I prefer the old one. It looked more magically demon-y.
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Sep 11, 2019 22:43
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My first thought for #9 was Kitty and Rachel because they are the best not-couple, but I might just be desperate for someone to remember that Kitty is queer.
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Sep 11, 2019 23:30
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