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Yeah my biggest grievance with sticker star was that it had load out specific puzzles in both the field and the boss fights, and if you didn't have the right tool by chance or by guide you were hosed and had to go back and redo the level. (Or you won at huge cost and the game made fun of you for it, but that's another gripe) Getting reamed with no indication you can prevent it isnt good. Especially like here where it's intuitive to equip the badge that causes the berserk mode if you don't know about it altering ai scripts.
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Sep 16, 2019 17:53
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Dabir posted:Then they should design the game in a way that accounts for their inability to do that. If this were an original project I'd agree, but again, its something being done for fun, by a person that enjoys this kind of challenge, for people that also enjoy it. Not having the time/experience to do extensive overhauls of the game code severely limits what the author can do. With that limitation, its not a trivial matter what to do about Zap Tap. If it is as overpowered in the base game as some here say, and the enemies aren't altered to counter it, using it will be an effective easy mode for a hack, the point of which is to not have easy solutions. If all enemies are simply changed to be a serious challenge even if you are using it, then equipping it is not a choice, it is a requirement for beating anything. The simplest choice would be not to give the badge to the player, but I understand the developer not wanting to go that route. Having the enemies alter their patterns in response to it provides another angle of strategy for a hack that seeks to make fights into tricky puzzles. It is another decision to make, another interesting aspect for people who enjoy reading the AI scripts and trying to devise plans against them. Having the switch in the AI be an invisible thing is hardly ideal, yeah, but its arguably the lesser of several imperfect solutions.
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Sep 16, 2019 18:17
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that's a lot of words to say "don't point out that it's bad because you didn't pay for it"
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Sep 16, 2019 18:27
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Its a lot of words to say, "Don't get angry at a person for making a game some people enjoy but you don't."
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Sep 16, 2019 18:30
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Jvie posted:Its a lot of words to say, "Don't get angry at a person for making a game some people enjoy but you don't." There's more than a few people who enjoy Pokemon Uranium despite that fangame being an objectively horrible mess of bad design, bad gameplay decisions and bad writing.
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Sep 16, 2019 18:54
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Jvie posted:Its a lot of words to say, "Don't get angry at a person for making a game some people enjoy but you don't." Nobody's getting angry, they're suggesting ways the game is subpar and reasoning why. Barging in and going "yeah but they're not being paid so you should be grateful for every single change regardless of its quality" is unhelpful.
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Sep 16, 2019 19:13
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Yeah, stifling discussion on what it does wrong would lead to the absence of ideas like the dude who suggested putting hints to the ai changes in the tattle entries. That's a great solution to the problem to the point that it would be worth contacting the creator with it.
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Sep 16, 2019 19:21
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Yeah having Goombario add a line that "maybe volt shrooms are a bad idea here" would be a simple enough and effective indicator.
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Sep 16, 2019 20:31
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Or as noted adding some words during the attack like “Thanks for the help charging sucker.” Which absolutely can be added to attack patterns as we already have seen new combat dialogue in the first place.
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Sep 16, 2019 23:45
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The thing that gets me is that this is literally punishing people for having Paper Mario knowledge, which is weird for a "know all the rules so that you can beat the puzzles" sort of hack. If you've played the game before, equipping Zap Tap for the Electro Blooper is a no-brainer and there's nothing to signpost that it's the badge that's screwing you. In a game that's very much trying its hardest to murder you, maybe this is just how it is now. You think there will be any other similar consistency issues to pop up in the future? Are there going to be fire enemies who freak out if you have Ice Power or Fire Shield equipped?
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Sep 17, 2019 00:12
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bio347 posted:The thing that gets me is that this is literally punishing people for having Paper Mario knowledge, which is weird for a "know all the rules so that you can beat the puzzles" sort of hack. If you've played the game before, equipping Zap Tap for the Electro Blooper is a no-brainer and there's nothing to signpost that it's the badge that's screwing you. In a game that's very much trying its hardest to murder you, maybe this is just how it is now. Bolded is the thing that gets me the hardest here. Master Quest, be it intentional or not, has now more than once had boss fights were you're secretly disadvantaged for being the hack's target audience.
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Sep 17, 2019 01:50
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This isn't a challenge of thought or planning or execution, it's guessing. It's really hard to reconcile with the stated goals. I don't understand why they gave the badge early if they were going to do this.Omnicrom posted:Bolded is the thing that gets me the hardest here. Master Quest, be it intentional or not, has now more than once had boss fights were you're secretly disadvantaged for being the hack's target audience. I think we're getting the age-old hard mod problem, audience testing and epistemic closure. The minicommunity around the hack adapts to the challenge during testing (sometimes in unexpected ways) and the devs respond to that adaptation, effectively removing the original difficulty design and information cues, raising the difficulty bar, and narrowing the target audience of people to the players who were already testing the hack. It's part of what makes getting new tester samples from your target audience so important. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Sep 17, 2019 |
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Sep 17, 2019 03:50
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Having to experiment to figure poo poo out is fine if you have only a few possible options and things can be re-attempted relatively quickly, but in this game you can have dozens of badges at the same time and it's not always trivial to get back to a fight, so it will inevitably lead to tedium. So at least some signposting would be nice. Maybe change the Tattle message to include hints for that kinda stuff or something.
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Sep 17, 2019 14:55
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Cerebral Bore posted:Having to experiment to figure poo poo out is fine if you have only a few possible options and things can be re-attempted relatively quickly, but in this game you can have dozens of badges at the same time and it's not always trivial to get back to a fight, so it will inevitably lead to tedium. So at least some signposting would be nice. Maybe change the Tattle message to include hints for that kinda stuff or something. Yeah, if it's a matter of 'rearrange badge and start a fight', it'd be one thing, but given there's going to be some backtracking you need to do from the last save point, yeah not telegraphing 'hey the thing most people tend to use is gonna make you pay dearly for it' is a dick move. It not only punishes players who know the game but wastes their time - and wasting a player's time is bad game design.
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Sep 17, 2019 15:06
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Generally I feel like most romhacks like this assume you're going to be using save states.
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Sep 17, 2019 16:48
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Good news! It looks like Life Shrooms won't be nerfed after all, according to the latest rumblings on the Discord. What happened? • The devs figured out how to access the recipe table. Recipes that give a "Life Shroom" will now give a "Sweet Shroom" (a powerful healing item) instead. • If Life Shrooms are nerfed, it apparently makes certain parts of Luigi's Challenge (the 10 HP, 5 FP, 16 badges challenge) pretty well near impossible. So, no nerf. I feel a little better now.
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Sep 18, 2019 00:50
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Good old Luigi. Always coming through for us.
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Sep 18, 2019 01:32
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Omnicrom posted:Bolded is the thing that gets me the hardest here. Master Quest, be it intentional or not, has now more than once had boss fights were you're secretly disadvantaged for being the hack's target audience. Some of that audience that I've seen appear to enjoy being bamboozled and having to come back in with a new strategy, so I'm not sure that it's technically failed to do what it set out to do.
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Sep 18, 2019 12:02
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Part 18: The Boos and the Bees   People say that if you don’t choose exactly the right paths, you’ll get totally lost. Y’know, I really like the name “Forever Forest”. It’s way better than the name Goombaria came up with. She was actually going to call it “The Forest of Perpetual Night and Terrible Dangers”. What kind of a name is that? Music: The Forest of Perpetual Night and Terrible Dangers Each area of Forever Forest takes the form of a circular path around trees in the center, with four gates going from it in the cardinal directions. As you’d expect, it’s something of a maze. Fortunately, we have a map!  This map is made by Player Guy Forever, and can also be found on GameFAQs. Anyway, back to the forest…  Hey! Did you notice that grass over there rustling? I swear I saw it move!This is the gimmick of Forever Forest: All the correct paths have something different in front of them than the others. In this case, it’s flowers that move - and grin.  We take the path with the moving flowers and…  …run into Oaklie!   You may pass, then. If you want to get through this forest, you have to pay really close attention to your surroundings.The areas around the correct paths will always look slightly different from the others. Watch carefully for clues. These clues will be different in other parts of the forest. Watch the inner forest very, very carefully as you go. That bit about the treasures was added in Master Quest, or maybe Pro Mode. It’ll be particularly important in a little bit. But first… I hear tell-tale ‘boing’ sounds from up ahead. Sounds that we last heard back in Koopa Village in Chapter 1.  We put on Zap Tap immediately.  And sure enough, we run into a very familiar-looking enemy.  This is a Forest Fuzzy. Forest Fuzzies are always green. If they grab hold of you, they’ll absorb your HP and add it to their own. The fiends! Those no good… Oh! And they sometimes divide. If they divide they become even stronger, so try to beat ‘em before they can split.For those who don’t remember when we fought Lakiwuns earlier, they have 13 HP, toss 4-damage Purple Spiny Eggs, and also attack Mario’s partner.  Forest Fuzzies did 1 damage with their attacks in the base game. Here, they do 4 damage - and restore 4 of their own HP. However, they need to latch on to do that - Zap Tap means they bounce right off.  We can concentrate on the Lakiwun and ignore them…    …even if they split in two! The ‘split’ move creates a new Forest Fuzzy with full HP, kind of like how Pokeys could summon friends. Sadly, at our current level, Forest Fuzzies don’t give out Star Points.  After we beat the Fuzzies, our next destination is marked by this glowing-eyed stump.  By the way, something I didn’t mention: it seems the Master Quest devs did add one thing in Forever Forest. Occasionally, one part of a circular path will be blocked by a fallen log.  In this room, interacting with the flowers makes them laugh.  There’s a clearing in the center of the area, where Oaklie hangs out.   And off to the left, there are different-shaped flowers, with a different laugh. This is our path.  This room has neither flowers nor tree stumps, so we’ll need to explore a bit.  We run into another Forest Fuzzy. It’s teamed up with a Piranha Plant and a Lakiwun, both of whom we’ve seen before.   Mario Hammer Throws the Piranha Plant, while Goombario bonks the Lakiwun. It takes some time (and a Refresh at the end to recover HP), but once just the Forest Fuzzies are left, we can heal up at our leisure. Because we’ve equipped Zap Tap, this area is quite carefree compared to past parts of the game. (In case anyone’s forgotten, Piranha Plants now have 8 HP, and a 4-Attack bite. They are, of course, spiky on top - all the teeth.)   Our exploration is ended when a tree laughs maniacally at us. We run to the nearest gate and head through it!  In this room, examining the mushrooms makes them light up.   We get the first strike on a Piranha Plant and find… bees? This is a Bzzap! Bzzaps! are monstrous bees. If they sting you, sometimes you’ll be poisoned. They also occasionally call a swarm of small bees to attack you in a cloud. Be careful of those little attackers, because sometimes you’ll shrink when stung. They don’t have lots of HP, so take care of them as quick as you can.OK, this is… awkward. In vanilla Paper Mario, these bees are enemies from Flower Fields. That’s Chapter 6, to be perfectly clear about this - but you could run into them in Forever Forest if you intentionally bothered a beehive. Here, the bees are just… palling around with a regular Piranha Plant, which makes me worry. They also have +2 HP compared to the base game - where they had 6 Attack.  I was going to hammer the frontmost Piranha Plant, but I’m concerned enough to Hammer Throw the first Bzzap! instead.    This proves justified - the Bzzap calls in a swarm of 5 smaller bees who attack for 2 damage each! It inflicts a very short-duration Poison now, not Shrink. I’m pretty sure that’s worse. I flub all 5 blocks and take 10 damage (+3 from the poison).   Things have gone badly enough - from just one bee - that I perform a tactical retreat.   We heal with a Hot Shroom and switch to Parakarry before jumping back in.   This time, we Hammer Throw one Bzzap!, and Shell Shot the other. We’re not taking any chances. (It turns out, by the way, that when a Bzzap! stings you directly, it still does 6 damage and poisons. That hasn’t been changed from the base game, aside from possibly the chance to poison you - and poison doing 3 damage across the board, of course.)   We KO the Piranha Plants at our leisure. While we’re on the subject, Bzzaps!’ internal Level has been adjusted. The game uses this value for Star Point drops - in vanilla Paper Mario, beating each Bzzap! with Mario at Level 11 (his current level) would give him 4 Star Points. Here, it gives him… 1. Alas!   We continue to go clockwise around the forest path until we find our progress blocked by a log. Our attempt to jump over the log nets us a Snowman Doll from a hidden block, but that’s all. (This hidden block may have been one of the treasures Oaklie was referring to.)   Going the other way brings us to a stand of mushrooms that’s slightly thinner. They also light up for longer, and with a slightly different tone. This is another thing Oaklie was hinting at - this gate isn’t the way forward, but there’s a secret here!   Remember how I said there was a beehive you could bother in Forever Forest? Here it is!   A Piranha Plant picks a fight with us. There’s no bees here, thankfully, but there’s an odd, purple Spiny.  If you haven’t noticed, they’re also purple. Their underbellies are reinforced, so flipping them doesn’t put them in as much danger. Still, they’re not that tough. You could whoop these guys across the Mushroom Kingdom and back. Purple Spinies curl into a Spiny Egg and attack for 5 damage.   The battle is heating up and I didn’t pack Quake Hammer, so we switch to Kooper. He Power Shells, getting rid of the Piranha Plant in front. We also find out that Purple Spinies have 2 Defense when right side up.    Donlee comes to our aid, letting us tank a full turn of enemy attacks without taking any damage.   We Power Shell and Hammer Throw again, KOing the second Piranha Plant and the Spiny.  With only the Lakiwun left, we can KO it leisurely.    This area of the forest has a clearing in the center - with a block. A badge block. It has a second HP Plus in it!   Against my better judgement, I heal up with some Spaghetti and hammer the tree with the beehive. Unsurprisingly, there are bees.   We get to see the Bzzap!’s 6-damage sting. Thankfully (perhaps due to it being a First Strike?) it doesn’t poison us.     We clear out two of the Bzzaps! and get attacked by the third. I manage to block exactly one of the tiny bees (each one counts as a separate attack to block), and so only take 8 damage (plus 3 from poison).    We Refresh and Shell Shot to KO the last one, and get our reward. In vanilla Paper Mario, this would be 12 Star Points right now. Here, we get only 3.   We swap out our FP Plus badge for our new HP Plus, then return to the room with the mushrooms. The path has rocks blocking it if you come from a clockwise direction - but you can sneak through these.  This has to be the path - there’s lots of mushrooms in different formations here, and they light up in sequence. (The nearby block has a Coin.)  In the next room, the flowers on the bushes shrink away.   There’s another log to the left - this time, there’s a hidden block with a Fire Flower.  Going the other way, we get accosted by another Piranha Plant. We do get the First Strike.    Our HP is kind of low, so we bring out the POW block we got in the Pit of 100 Trials. It flips the Purple Spinies! Kooper then goes in for a Power Shell. It turns out that Purple Spinies have 1 Defense when flipped.  Unlike Buzzy Beetles, Purple Spinies must spend their entire turn unflipping.    Next, we go for a Dizzy Shell. This stuns the Spinies longer, allowing us precious turns to charge Star Energy and Refresh.    By the time we KO the Spinies, we’re a lot better off than we were. Because we’ve been seeing more Piranha Plants and Purple Spinies than Forest Fuzzies, I take off Zap Tap in favor of Quake Hammer and Shrink Smash. We also add Power Rush, because why not?  The next gate has flowers that don’t fall. This is our exit, but first let’s see if that ? block has anything useful in it!  On our way, we run into a Piranha Pl…  NOPE, Nope, nope, nope nope nope, what the gently caress.  We run away. [    We also have to run from a Forest Fuzzy on the way, who’s accompanied by more bees.  We finally make it to the ? box! It has a Coin.  On the way back, we get cornered, sort of. I hope this is the right gate, because I’m not going back in there again!   Well, we aren’t back at the entrance, so it’s the right gate. This is the last normal room before we get out of Forever Forest. I hear boinging in the distance, so I put Zap Tap back on again.  Once again, we are accosted by bees. I deal with them and the Spiny with Hammer Throws and Shell Shots.   With only the Fuzzies left, we have a much needed Refresh and recovery break. Apparently Thamz is planning to give Forest Fuzzies some sort of unidentified buff so that they’re not “completely shut down by Zap Tap” in the next release.   The path pointing to Boo’s Mansion has an actual signpost pointing to it, but we’re not looking for that - because this room has a secret exit, too! It’s marked by a spooky rock.    In the room past the secret exit is a clearing with another badge block. This one has a second FP Plus badge!  We return to the previous room. The sign tells us which way to go.  Hopefully, we won’t have to come back here for a very long time.    Music: Haunted Mansion Ugh… I’m certainly glad we’re out of that forest. Talk about creepy… What’s this? Mario, I have a feeling that this is the mansion we’re looking for.   There’s a Volt Shroom off to the side here. Now, we just have to open the gate, and we’ll be able to enter the Haunted Mansion.  Wait, what’s going on here? In Paper Mario there wasn’t a Boo at the gate of the Mansion, you just… opened it. Let’s see what the test is.   I’m sorry, did that Boo say fright? Or did he say fight?! We’ve already run into Boos in the Toad Town Tunnels, so I’m not completely wrongfooted by this, but anyone who jumped right in to Chapter 3 might be very, very surprised. It doesn’t help that we have to fight this battle with the Mansion’s Save and Heart Blocks on the other side of the locked gate. In terms of the battle itself, all three Boos start Invisible, so we have to sit through between 15 and 21 damage before we can actually attack them. All I can do on this turn is formulate a strategy. (No, I’m not wearing Truth Stomp. But if I was - it turns out the jump only does 2 damage, same as a regular Jump attack.)  We switch to Kooper and prepare for the pain.  Did I mention that Boos’ attacks are really hard to time? Well, it bears re-mentioning. We take the full 21 damage from the Boos.     Fortunately, Boos are weak to Dizzy, it seems. We stun all three of them. (For those wondering, I went back and tested using Lullaby on the Boos later. They appear to be immune or highly resistant.)      I use the Snowman Doll I found in the Forest to knock the Boos down to 6 health. Kooper follows that up with a Power Shell.     By the time the Boos come to their senses, we can deal with them at our leisure.  Before we continue, I should probably take pains to point out the generalized unpleasantness of this fight. • You have to fight strong enemies at the end of Forever Forest. • With little advance warning - and no Heart Block / good way to prepare for it. • These enemies start untouchable, requiring you to take 15-21 damage (barring luck-based effects such as Close Call) before you can harm them. • You then have to actually beat them before you take 15-21 again. • And, most critically, if you die, you have to go through all of Forever Forest again. Ugh.   The gate opens and shuts with a screech and a crash, and Bootler appears.  My master awaits you in the room highest up in this lovely mansion. Please go to the third floor. There you will hear all the news of the Star Spirits…  And with that, we are left outside a haunted mansion. Badges: 35/89 (New: HP Plus #2, FP Plus #2) Recipes: 10/50 Star Pieces: 43/180? Chuck Quizmo’s Quiz Questions: 18/64? Game Overs (this time): None, but we had several narrow escapes. Game Overs (total): 7. SUMMARY OF CHANGES FROM MAIN GAME (in this installment) • Goombario tells us about his sister’s alternate name for Forever Forest: The Forest of Perpetual Night and Terrible Dangers. Turns out she wasn’t wrong. • Forever Forest has more fallen trees, several hidden item blocks. • Forest Fuzzies more voracious. (+3 Attack.) • Piranha Plants a bit meaner. (+3 HP, +1 Attack.) • Rare “Lakiwun” spotted in Forever Forest. (Lakiwun: 13 HP, 4 Attack, also attacks partner.) • Purple Spinies also spotted - they’re Lakiwun’s partners. (Purple Spiny: 5 HP, 5 Attack, 2 Defense (1 when flipped).) • Bzzaps! are meaner, now roam forest as volunteer defense force. (+2 HP, swarm attack is effectively +5 Attack, swarm attack now poisons instead of Shrinking. Star Points dropped by Bzzaps! have been greatly lowered.) • Gate to Boo’s Mansion now guarded by a fight featuring a trio of Boos. • Boos weak to Dizzy, immune/resistant to Sleep. Next Time On Master Quest: Mario enters a contest in a mansion he didn’t even win. P.S.: Thamz, the main Master Quest dev, has announced that he’s planning to change Boos in the upcoming release: • They have 1 less Attack (doing 6 damage). • But once they hit half HP (5), they will turn invisible again for 1-2 turns (he didn’t say exactly how long) on their next turn. I’m of the opinion this actually makes them worse…
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Sep 18, 2019 12:30
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If anyone is wondering why in the world that fight was designed the way it is, it was explicitly designed as an HP check to punish you for not leveling up HP. Leveled up wrong? Back to Chet Rippo for you! And having enemies you can't attack from the get-go is just obnoxious enemy design.
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Sep 18, 2019 12:51
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Sounds like they kind of want you to use Truth Stomp on them, does it reveal them from invisibility or just go through it?
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Sep 18, 2019 12:55
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Mods like this make me happy LPs exist. While it was interesting at the start, the three-boo gatecheck probably would infuriate me too much to bother after dying 2 or 3 times, and having to slog through the forest each time. At the very least, they could have moved the save block so you can at least try different strategies without having to go through the forest each time.
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Sep 18, 2019 13:14
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Araxxor posted:If anyone is wondering why in the world that fight was designed the way it is, it was explicitly designed as an HP check to punish you for not leveling up HP. Leveled up wrong? Back to Chet Rippo for you! Wait, this is a terrible idea, no matter what your concept of difficulty is. Paper Mario doesn't give consistent experience, it's based on your level. What if you hit the maximum possible level for this part of the game but didn't raise your HP enough, even with badges? That's an unwinnable scenario, isn't it?
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Sep 18, 2019 13:20
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Blaze Dragon posted:Wait, this is a terrible idea, no matter what your concept of difficulty is. Paper Mario doesn't give consistent experience, it's based on your level. What if you hit the maximum possible level for this part of the game but didn't raise your HP enough, even with badges? That's an unwinnable scenario, isn't it? Chet Rippo exists to reallocate your level bonuses at least.
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Sep 18, 2019 13:29
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They've explicitly said that Boo fight is meant to be a HP check? Bloody hell that's stupid. There are ways to deal with it, as we've seen in the LP, but the first time you get there it's a huge kick in the teeth because you're not expecting it and it's right before the heal/save points. (Credit where it's due, they do let you decline the fight... but if you do that, you still need to backtrack through all of Forever Forest if you want to heal and restock, which will respawn all the monsters.) I don't mind them adding tough fights where there weren't fights before, but it'd have been better to have this just after the save/heal points (say, at the front door of the mansion instead of the gate, if they could manage that). I think I may have actually used Truth Stomp here; it ends up being an interesting ability. It's much less damaging than a normal jump since it does only one hit (I think it's just +1 damage with the action command), but what the description doesn't tell you is that in addition to damaging a transparent enemy, it also makes them lose transparency. So you could Truth Stomp one of the Boos and have your partner hit it the same turn. This still isn't great (at this point none of the partners do enough damage to KO the Boo the first turn from there), but at least it means you can guarantee it'll die the following turn and you're only taking three hits the first time.
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Sep 18, 2019 15:10
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I thought that all pro players of Paper Mario invested solely in BP and let everything else fall to the wayside. You can always decide to wear an HP Plus or FP Plus with the BP you get as a soft mind change, but I dunno.
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Sep 18, 2019 15:16
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Alxprit posted:I thought that all pro players of Paper Mario invested solely in BP and let everything else fall to the wayside. You can always decide to wear an HP Plus or FP Plus with the BP you get as a soft mind change, but I dunno. You cant nullify damage in a Danger Mario build in Paper Mario. You can in TTYL though. Well its more that you can equip a billion power rushes and kill everything in one hit. The only badge that nullify damage are chance based, they stack, but theres still a chance. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Sep 18, 2019 |
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Sep 18, 2019 15:18
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How I feel about the Boo fight will depend on how the game goes from here. If having enough HP will be consistently important going forward, it makes sense to give the player a wake up slap so future areas won't be impossible. It's an in universe way of saying "you can't have a dump stat anymore, just FYI". But if this is the only hard HP check in the game, the devs are just trolling. And putting the fight right before the save block is a dick move either way. Sorites fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Sep 18, 2019 |
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Sep 18, 2019 15:37
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With the damage output now despite it only being chapter 3, I'm confident this is intended as a wake up call
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Sep 18, 2019 15:41
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Bzzaps getting their level lowered is also a bit of a dick move, they're way too much of a threat to really justify a measly 1 point reward. On top of that, if they show up during chapter 6 like normal then you'll outlevel them so much you get a whopping 0 points.
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Sep 18, 2019 15:43
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I'm curious and worried about what the later chapters will end up being at thjs point given how they're using buffed chapter 6 enemies now. Could be a miniboss like those bobomns but yikes.
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Sep 18, 2019 15:45
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How would the green fuzzies be buffed to get around Zap Tap? Flinging smaller versions of themselves that don't count as contact like with the Pokeys? Also lol @ the one volt shroom before the boo battle, like that's supposed to help you against the boos when they don't get zapped when they do their tongue attack at you. But moving back a bit, the devs said they now have access to the recipe table, something about the life shroom recipe now being a "sweet shroom" recipe. What are the odds that won't be the only recipe changed, probably for the worst? Also: is the Mistake item still the same, cooking inedible items/wrong recipes and restoring 1 hp & 1 fp? It would be pretty drat funny if it was changed to just poison Mario.
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Sep 18, 2019 15:51
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Araxxor posted:If anyone is wondering why in the world that fight was designed the way it is, it was explicitly designed as an HP check to punish you for not leveling up HP. Leveled up wrong? Back to Chet Rippo for you! Boy that loving sucks. What's the point of letting the player pick hp/fp/badge if you're just going to explicitly punish the player for picking wrong? Not to mention, what if you get through the forest just barely with no healing items left. And then you have to take 15 damage minimum.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:05
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I don't give a poo poo what anybody says or if anybody claims to like it - making the player do pointless busywork is bad design. And doubly so if it's the result of something unavoidable that you just spring on them.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:13
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I think the hp wall issue would be fine if there's enough hp plus to make up for it if a person is going hard on BPs which is commonly the best route esp for something like this.
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Sep 18, 2019 17:18
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ChaseSP posted:I think the hp wall issue would be fine if there's enough hp plus to make up for it if a person is going hard on BPs which is commonly the best route esp for something like this. And there's just not enough. You need 25 HP, and if you don't do any HP levels you can get up to 20.
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Sep 18, 2019 18:04
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I hated this "surprise" fight because I didn't remember there wasn't a boo before the gate in vanilla and just figured he was there to welcome us and the test he talks about made sense because Bow tests the player. So I got caught off-guard with extremely low health. I healed up to like, 19 HP and tattled them, then save stated my way through many rounds of trying to hit the dodge timing so i could live through the turn, then try to figure out how to take them out in one turn. Ended up using Bombette's Power Bomb to inflict 6 on each and used one Snowman to hit for the remaining 4 damage. I was upset and stopped for the night at that save block. It's just such an annoying HP check after a long run through an amped up forest.Omnicrom posted:And there's just not enough. You need 25 HP, and if you don't do any HP levels you can get up to 20. Technically there is, because if you wear damage dodge you can survive with 1 HP if you time one of the dodge presses. That's a big IF though because the boos are so hard to time. And I heard from the discord that the boos used to have random timers on their attack.
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Sep 18, 2019 18:13
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How do you beat this in luigi mode? Are there enough HP plus or what
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Sep 18, 2019 18:44
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Mzbundifund posted:How do you beat this in luigi mode? Are there enough HP plus or what 10 base HP + 2 HP Pluses available by now = 20 HP. Boos do 18-21 damage, or 15/17/19/21 damage with damage dodge, meaning you can only survive it if you have both HP Plus badges on, are at max health AND you successfully block 2 attacks (1 attack with damage dodge) on.
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Sep 18, 2019 18:47
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:59 |
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If you can kill one first turn with the truth stomp it's not as much a concern, still it's not like you'd use truth stomp if you didn't know about it removing invisible plus the fight having no save point doesn't make experimenting appealing.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:08
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