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currently remembering that BBC puff piece about the conventionally-attractive 19yo girl who votes Conservative! and voted for Brexit! and after getting hounded over Twitter the BBC grudging posted a follow-up tweet explaining she was also a paid influencer for Turning Point UK
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Sep 19, 2019 12:03
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So there is now a conspiracy theory the guy who had a go at Boris was wearing a microphone because people apparently can't recognise a belt
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Sep 19, 2019 12:08
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lol thanks for reminding me that Turning Point UK exists. Have they managed to 'influence' anything other than people taking the piss out of them on social media yet?
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Sep 19, 2019 12:09
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Jose posted:So there is now a conspiracy theory the guy who had a go at Boris was wearing a microphone because people apparently can't recognise a belt I heard he ran over his own daughter to get her into that hospital too
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Sep 19, 2019 12:09
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Guavanaut posted:lol thanks for reminding me that Turning Point UK exists. Have they managed to 'influence' anything other than people taking the piss out of them on social media yet? Given their continued existence, they must've influenced their donors enough to keep giving them influencer money.
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Sep 19, 2019 12:09
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Guavanaut posted:lol thanks for reminding me that Turning Point UK exists. Have they managed to 'influence' anything other than people taking the piss out of them on social media yet? Were they the people using those makeup coated sisters with that weird smoothing filter, talking about how Eire speaks English so we are basically the same, completely unaware of why this is the case.
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Sep 19, 2019 12:11
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Guavanaut posted:Thanks for posting this. Mourning is weird. What gets me is the blaming though, like nobody (other than poo poo people) would go up to someone else and go "aha! you did this thing wrong at that date so you deserve it" and yet too many women (and sometimes men, but disproportionately women) will beat themselves up over that. Is self blame just a natural part of the mourning or is it something that our 'perfect pregnancy' society pushes on people? So people intentionally blaming someone for the loss if a baby, people saying something that is insensitive (deliberate or accidental) that causes offence and self blame are three big topics. Basically the first is (I hope) rare, but I suspect that it does happen. I haven't run into it, but it sounds awful. The second (the accidentally offensive) is more common. It all sort of stems from the fact that the topic of child death, stillbirth and miscarriage are still one of the ultimate taboos. The topic itself engenders so much discomfort in people that they often don't know how to reply and may say that not meaning for it to hurt. They could be just trying to understand what had happened or offer comfort, but just fail at it. I remember one friend tried to comfort me by quoting the Godfather* by saying that I am young, I can have more kids. That hurts because I don't want new or different kids. I wanted my stillborn daughter alive. I (with restraint) explained why what he said hurt without trying to make him feel poo poo and I think he understood. Then there is self blame. And yes it's real. But I don't think it is caused by society, it seems like a method of coping with trauma. When something traumatic and unexpected happens we want to find meaning. Even if the meaning is hurtful to yourself or irrational, we can latch onto it. Like I distinctly remember after being told the news I fell to my knees and cried out about how it was my fault for not reading enough on the book of parenting I got for Christmas. And my wife and I did it multiple different times over multiple things for weeks after it happened because it is easier to find something (even yourself) to blame than say "it's random chance." The best thing we had was each other who would spend time explaining how it wasn't our fault. Sort of like that scene in Goodwill Hunting with Robin Williams and Matt Damon. But like once a day. Guavanaut posted:Like it seems a radical departure from the way that my nan would think about it compared to younger members of my family (spoilering in case people don't want to read 1940's pregnancy loss views) "Oh everyone gets one or two bad ones for every good one, it's just how it is, and when I was young if you weren't married you'd do anything to hope it was a bad one, but they're not real children, they're things that weren't meant." That's blunt and probably callous by modern standards, but for a woman born poor in the 1920s with no formal science education it's not a hundred miles away from what jabby said about fetal viability as an actual doctor, and I can't help but contrast that to people very close to me who have annually beaten themselves up mentally in comparison. That doesn't surprise me that people from different generations had different ways of dealing with it. Bear in mind that someone from the 20's or 30's, easy access contraceptives and at home pregnancy kits were not a thing. Women had much less agency in deciding if they wanted to get pregnant let alone discovering if they were pregnant in advance. I suspect a more detached mindset was just a coping mechanism over an area that women didn't feel they had control. Life sucked, view it with a grim Soviet era stoicism. I know that when we told our families, my mother and my wife's mum just opened up to us about their experiences. And it felt like they were getting to tell their stories in a way that they never felt like they could before. So I think generations are changing how they deal with a subject that up until now was just never talked about. Guavanaut posted:Of course I don't think that someone in 2019 can or should beep boop their way into thinking like a woman in the 1940s, and there's all kinds of reasons why women in the past wouldn't regard it as a child until you can hold it that we probably shouldn't go back to, but I also can't help but think that our current way of thinking with week planners and gender reveals puts far more pressure on people, does that result in a greater sense of loss and/or self blame when it doesn't go right compared to "historically miscarriages weren't viewed as anything at all"? I disagree with the idea that society putting pressure makes it any more painful. Loss is loss. It hurts so much. But society is realizing now how much trauma and depression there is out in the world and to talk openly about it. After all the military used to believe that the way to deal with the horrors of war was "repress the poo poo out of it. Tell no one. Drink yourself into an early grave." This is the same. People have traditionally (by which I mean the last 30 or so years) believe in not telling anyone until 12 weeks are up as it's "safer" (IE less chance of having a miscarriage. ) But also I think another reason is as a protection mechanism. "If I don't tell anyone, I wont get our hopes up. And we wont be hurt if something bad happens." So we told no one until 12 weeks was up. And even when we did tell people, we didn't make a big song and dance out of it. We didn't do the gender reveal parties or a weekly pregnancy countdown on social media over it. And you know what? It still hurt so much when we lost our baby. We both regreated not doing that. We weren't in any way "protected" from the pain of loss because we tried to stay quiet. We realized all we did was denying getting to tell the world about our love for our baby when she was alive. I think what society needs is more empathy and understanding about trauma and grief and all these emotions that we have never talked about because they hurt so much. That would probably do us all more good in the long run. As that way we would know what to say to people who do experience loss, instead of people blundering into saying something offensive because they have no idea how to react to the news. * = he literally used the words "I'm quoting from the Godfather Part 2 here" when he said it too.
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Sep 19, 2019 12:14
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Its been quite something seeing this story go viral as said fella is friend of a friend. And the Kuensberg thing has been the thing that finally erased the last lingering bit of scepticism that BBC news was anything more than a government megaphone from a lot of my Twitter circle so that's a plus.
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Sep 19, 2019 12:14
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Ratjaculation posted:Were they the people using those makeup coated sisters with that weird smoothing filter, talking about how Eire speaks English so we are basically the same, completely unaware of why this is the case. https://twitter.com/TPointUK/status/1161668858538844165 It's like PragerU but worse. Populism means returning to our centuries old traditions of popular rule by the people which was a thing in Britain.
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Sep 19, 2019 12:14
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feedmegin posted:Being married to a woman from deepest rural Mississippi, I don't get this option with my boss  Thanks for the book recommendations, feel like I should have some rage-inducing non-fiction to break up the Discworld (Guards Guards is so good! again)
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Sep 19, 2019 12:31
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TIL that: The EU ignores the people by hosting regular elections across 28 countries every four years Populism is promoted by private US interests via social media posts performed by Realdolls edit: elsewhere in bizarro-world; John Major is giving testimony against misuse of prorogation for political reasons Diego Maradona is apparently in favour of VAR xtothez fucked around with this message at 12:38 on Sep 19, 2019 |
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Sep 19, 2019 12:34
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Jesus Give me the TL;DW please
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Sep 19, 2019 12:37
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The Question IRL posted:The best thing we had was each other who would spend time explaining how it wasn't our fault. Sort of like that scene in Goodwill Hunting with Robin Williams and Matt Damon. But like once a day. I think the proof of how common it is (and how it being common doesn't make it hurt any less) is the amount of people now sharing their stories, even among goons who are legendary for not ever having had sex. It's just that nobody talks about it. I also think there's a big difference between saying that talking about it helps, and saying that it makes it any less painful to go through, if that makes sense.
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Sep 19, 2019 12:39
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Junior G-man posted:LMAO they've been trying to do an end run around Council by offering individual deals to the EU27, and it's not going great. Even with all that great prosecco buying power of the UK. This is what Cameron tried to do originally, before the referendum, and he failed completely. Then Theresa May later tried to do the same thing, for many years, and she also failed completely. Now I suppose it's not surprising that Johnson is trying, yet again, the very same thing, and he is also failing completely. How is it that none of these loving clowns know how the EU works or what it even is? The EU doesn't work that way you loving imbeciles!
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Sep 19, 2019 12:39
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Given the sensitivity of the subject of miscarriages, I was going to stay lurking, but after my mother died, it was mentioned to me that before my sister was born (followed some 21 months later by me), my mother had six (yup, 6) miscarriages. I cannot imagine how that hurt. I remember our next-door neighbor had a miscarriage when I was 6 or 7 and how distraught she was, and how the other families wives formed a support group around her. These things, sadly, happen. There is usually no "why", you did nothing to cause this, and there was likely nothing you could have done to prevent it. Cold words, I am afraid. But in time I hope you are both able to come to terms with what has happened. It seems only once it happens to you or someone close do the stories come out how horribly common this is. We never discussed it in boys' health education, perhaps a bit more understandably.
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Sep 19, 2019 12:40
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Sep 19, 2019 12:45
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Nuclear Spoon posted:according to gdn liveblog this is the order of the day only 90 minutes of deliberation?
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Sep 19, 2019 12:49
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Hi everyone this is real https://twitter.com/iresimpsonsfans/status/1174630876912783361?s=21
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Sep 19, 2019 12:52
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Aidan_702 posted:Hi everyone this is real like they say in the replies, they'll let you know when they know.
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Sep 19, 2019 12:57
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jaete posted:How is it that none of these loving clowns know how the EU works or what it even is? The EU doesn't work that way you loving imbeciles!
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Sep 19, 2019 12:58
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Guavanaut posted:lol thanks for reminding me that Turning Point UK exists. Have they managed to 'influence' anything other than people taking the piss out of them on social media yet? One of their founders recently got a job as Social Media co-ordinator at No.10 and her first order of business was to produce the whole Corbyn chicken thing lol
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Sep 19, 2019 13:01
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https://twitter.com/KeejayOV2/status/1174626611297214475 loving amazing
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Sep 19, 2019 13:01
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Bobby Deluxe posted:It's almost as if they spent their entire careers deliberately misinterpreting everything about the EU, and then surrounded themselves with sycophants willing to reinforce their views, to the point that they start believing their own bullshit. Yeah, the Tories especially have snorted so much of their own product they can't distinguish truth from fiction any longer. Gonzo McFee posted:loving amazing Must be amazing to be so powerful as Corbyn, to just be able to look unpleasantly at the whole of UK business and have them quivering in a corner.
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Sep 19, 2019 13:01
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wont someone think of the for profit utilities?
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Sep 19, 2019 13:05
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Let's have a look with what the Sun's leading with today:
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Sep 19, 2019 13:08
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At this point, the Conservative Party is just a very public behavioural psychology demonstration of confirmation bias and belief perseverance, it's incredible
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Sep 19, 2019 13:08
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The Question IRL posted:Pregnancy. re: blaming I'm not so much talking about the direct to a person's face "this was your fault" so much as the just world nonsense like Sanford posted, "what do you think you did wrong?/do you know what you did wrong?" or the behind the back "you know she drank?" and like how people shouldn't say poo poo like that about/to sexual assault survivors (but they do and it's hosed up) it's bad and achieves nothing positive. I'm not sure how we as a society move away from that other than by not doing it ourselves and by challenging others that do, but I guess a good target should be "this happened, your feelings on it are valid, it's not your fault." I agree that self blame is likely a method of coping with trauma, but the specific forms that it takes will always be informed by the wider society. Like the 1940s view was a matter of necessity for the society it was in at the time, but our current view is just as much so, and our ideal case should be one where people don't needlessly self blame but their loss isn't invalidated. Like that Godfather quote sounded like he was clumsily trying to do the first but ended up majorly doing the second. And a loss is a loss, I don't want to invalidate that, but I do think a lot of the 'perfect pregnancy' and 'pro life' lot add guilt on top of loss, which is unnecessary and they can gently caress off. Like we need a way to say "it doesn't make you bad that this happened" while still saying "it's okay that you feel bad that this happened." Like you say though, ultimate taboos and all that so it's hard for me to phrase that in a way that doesn't sound like I'm being a dick about someone else's life experience. Bobby Deluxe posted:I also think there's a big difference between saying that talking about it helps, and saying that it makes it any less painful to go through, if that makes sense. pablo gbscobar posted:One of their founders recently got a job as Social Media co-ordinator at No.10 and her first order of business was to produce the whole Corbyn chicken thing lol 
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Sep 19, 2019 13:12
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Dutch train magazine has caught on to the weak pound. "Authentieke Pubmeals" 
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Sep 19, 2019 13:13
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Bit racist of them to mock the Geordie dialect like that
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Sep 19, 2019 13:15
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How is Dan Hodges this thick. Thought it would be hard to top "BoJo was just trying to calm the situation down" from him yesterday but "commie plot" snatches it.
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Sep 19, 2019 13:16
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Have they considered the far simpler explanation that vast numbers of people regard them as giant, screaming horsefuckers?
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Sep 19, 2019 13:17
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Guavanaut posted:Bit racist of them to mock the Geordie dialect like that lol
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Sep 19, 2019 13:21
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Has any one else's tory mp inviteing themselves to local primary schools to talk about democracy and parliamentary systems or is it just Andrea Jenkins?
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Sep 19, 2019 13:27
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If I knew that saying mean things was enough to get the right to shut the gently caress up I'd have started a letter writing campaign to every FTSE 100 company 2 decades ago. And people say that Twitter is a bad thing. The_Doctor posted:Let's have a look with what the Sun's leading with today: Mostly this is funny because this was in the news a week ago. It's not even recent but it's worth the front page of The Scum. Good show.
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Sep 19, 2019 13:36
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Tarnop posted:Last time I went to Bristol I had a lovely time. Drugs: check. Kissing: check. Some years ago I visited a friend in Bristol and overnight there was a big storm so trains were half speed and/or cancelled the next day. I got onto the only train to London that day, not even bothering with a ticket. Made it about a foot and a half from the door, then sat on my bag and listened to a woman talk about how much England has gone downhill because of all the immigrants. I figure not that much has changed.
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Sep 19, 2019 13:36
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Abolish the Home Office, part 17: Asylum seeker denied cancer treatment by Home Office dies E: And while I'm stuck in bed trying not to move my bum (literally), the G are putting out some good articles I'm definitely not reading the comments on (there's good rage, and then there's the other kind) For the sake of life on Earth, we must put a limit on wealth (Monbiot) There is no longer any justification for private schools in Britain (Ryan) Along with any tweet by John McDonnell Bobstar fucked around with this message at 13:39 on Sep 19, 2019 |
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Sep 19, 2019 13:37
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Bobstar posted:Abolish the Home Office, part 17: “Well look, it isn’t as if they were likely to have lived much longer anyway; we saved the NHS loads on such profligate medical procedures, just like we’ll save them loads when we leave the EU on October 31st!”
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Sep 19, 2019 13:39
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Rust Martialis posted:Given the sensitivity of the subject of miscarriages, I was going to stay lurking, but after my mother died, it was mentioned to me that before my sister was born (followed some 21 months later by me), my mother had six (yup, 6) miscarriages. I cannot imagine how that hurt. Aye, I found out that my folks had at least one miscarriage between the birth of myself and my younger sister, but it's generally just not talked about very much. I've heard it happens in somewhere between 1 in 4 & 1 in 8 pregnancies, which is staggeringly regular. Bobstar posted:And while I'm stuck in bed trying not to move my bum (literally), the G are putting out some good articles I'm definitely not reading the comments on (there's good rage, and then there's the other kind) I am so excited that there is genuinely growing momentum around private school abolition. Christ, I remember being a precocious 18 or 19 year old & talking about my theory (in the sense that I came to it through my own observations rather than it was unique & an amazing breakthrough) about private schools being utterly indefensible from any standpoint except intentionally entrenching wealth & privilege in the hands of a select group, most of whom inherit it and being made to feel like such an outlier & an extremist. Because this was circa 2002/3 and the height of Blairism I guess. And now my position hasn't really changed, my critique is a bit more nuanced & levelheaded because I'm more mature intellectually but the idea that private schools are an abomination that cannot be tolerated is no longer proper fringe stuff, it's at worst being talked about on mainstream platforms, there's now an official campaign inside the Labour Party for their abolition. It's pretty wonderful. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Sep 19, 2019 |
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Sep 19, 2019 13:40
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The deputy political editor of The Sun saying "Everyone's afraid to speak out against a Labour government" is a bit like whenever the Express columnist says "nobody's allowed to talk about immigration now." e: ^^^ forkboy84 posted:Aye, I found out that my folks had at least one miscarriage between the birth of myself and my younger sister, but it's generally just not talked about very much. I've heard it happens in somewhere between 1 in 4 & 1 in 8 pregnancies, which is staggeringly regular. Many of those people would probably never even refer to themselves as having lost a pregnancy, but that number does sometimes provide comfort to other people who do. And sometimes doesn't. Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Sep 19, 2019 |
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Sep 19, 2019 13:41
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Still laughing at "the water industry"
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Sep 19, 2019 13:51
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