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I've never seen any group of people so unhappy that they are making new Star Trek, as this thread.Son of Sam-I-Am posted:I couldn't really categorize them lol, actually I probably do identify with grumpy when you think about it Like probably 99% of posters here are millennials. Snow Cone Capone posted:#2 is Discovery and I would 100% watch a show with Garak and Bashir even if they only interacted by proxy Have you ever watched Discovery? What the heck is cyberpunk about it?
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Sep 24, 2019 18:31
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It was more the "completely and incomprehensibly up its own rear end" part, and I'm also being mildly facetious; as I have posted in this thread on many occasions, I actually enjoy Discovery despite its many, glaring flaws.
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Sep 24, 2019 18:46
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marktheando posted:I've never seen any group of people so unhappy that they are making new Star Trek, as this thread. Trek has been mostly terrible for years now, and outside of these forums the fans screaming the loudest about it are reactionary bigots. It should be no surprise that people are numb to this poo poo by this point
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Sep 24, 2019 18:47
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Snow Cone Capone posted:It was more the "completely and incomprehensibly up its own rear end" part, and I'm also being mildly facetious; as I have posted in this thread on many occasions, I actually enjoy Discovery despite its many, glaring flaws. Fair enough I certainly wouldn't dispute that Disco has some problems, even though I enjoy it. The cyberpunk thing baffled me though. Tighclops posted:Trek has been mostly terrible for years now, and outside of these forums the fans screaming the loudest about it are reactionary bigots. It should be no surprise that people are numb to this poo poo by this point The worst period of Star Trek was the Voyager years, nothing since then has been anywhere near as bad as your average lovely Voyager ep, even Into Darkness. And yes I'm glad people here aren't CHUDs who bash Discovery for being SJW political correctness gone mad.
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Sep 24, 2019 18:59
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marktheando posted:Have you ever watched Discovery? What the heck is cyberpunk about it? red head dudes face implants and miriam deleting her memories
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Sep 24, 2019 19:04
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marktheando posted:The worst period of Star Trek was the Voyager years, nothing since then has been anywhere near as bad as your average lovely Voyager ep, even Into Darkness. That is an incredibly subjective opinion and it's kind of funny that you're making a statement that decisive immediately after complaining about people not liking a different era of Trek
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Sep 24, 2019 19:04
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Voyager mostly sucked but I don't see any of the new material as being much better. it's certainly flashier and more expensive looking, but that doesn't necessarily translate into interesting or relevant stories. I would be overjoyed if Star Trek would lean into the social justice stuff again, but the people making it don't seem terribly interested in that beyond some lip service. And if they're listening to the assholes screaming in the YouTube comments, then what prospect is there for that to change in the future? I genuinely hope I'm wrong about that.
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Sep 24, 2019 19:08
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picard is going to be good i have decided and reality will bend accommodate me. the cartoon will suck for like the first seven episodes and then get really good and then get almost immediately cancelled. this is the path. this is what is written
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Sep 24, 2019 19:17
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Nobody is going to be talking about whether the Picard show is good or not because everyone will be talking about cameos and references and remember when you were a kid in the 90s? loving intertextuality is a blessing and a curse E: the frogurt is also cursed
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Sep 24, 2019 19:20
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Snow Cone Capone posted:That is an incredibly subjective opinion and it's kind of funny that you're making a statement that decisive immediately after complaining about people not liking a different era of Trek Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man. lost my old email posted:picard is going to be good i have decided and reality will bend accommodate me. the cartoon will suck for like the first seven episodes and then get really good and then get almost immediately cancelled. this is the path. this is what is written In a twist nobody saw coming, the best of the new Star Trek shows will actually be the section 31 show.
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Sep 24, 2019 19:23
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Oh hey, the grizzled security guy is Bajoran. I hope he opines about all the fuckin spoons he ganked back in the day. I also hope he doesn't have PTSD played for laffs.
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Sep 24, 2019 19:50
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Trek got way better at drama and production values since Voyager, but lost its soul in the process
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Sep 24, 2019 20:02
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Tighclops posted:Nobody is going to be talking about whether the Picard show is good or not because everyone will be talking about cameos and references and remember when you were a kid in the 90s? I would think that Hugh and Seven will have the biggest roles of the returning characters since the plot of this series has something to do with the Borg
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Sep 24, 2019 20:02
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With regards to Voyager, social justice, and modern Trek: One thing I've heard a few times, and in the past have agreed with, is the idea that TNG era was good and comfy because the social justice was established. It wasn't being deconstructed or cynically reexamined. Picard was a good man and the Federation was a good organization and that's what humanity can be, and it can just be a natural accepted fact. I've been watching Voyager and realizing that that isn't enough. The crew and morals of Voyager are, theoretically, good Federation ideals. Sure Janeway comes to amusingly batshit conclusions every now and then, but day to day they keep up the facade. I just watched an episode where a pair of scam artists were pretending to be Janeway and Tuvok. There's a scene were Nelix is talking to the captured fake Janeway, and he explains how he used to be like her, unable to trust always trying to get one over on people, and then he met Voyager and when he finally found it in himself to trust them he found out he was a good person after all. Or some bullshit like that. It was classist neoliberal garbage. The fake Janeway's situation, and indeed Nelix's initial situation, was one of desperation. The issue was a lack of a society to support them. Nelix actually found that kind of society, and did manage to achieve a more positive existence, but the writers framed it as a moral failing on the scammer's part (old Nelix and fake Janeway). Like, if only they had trusted people and worked hard their lives would be better. It's bullshit because the Delta quadrant is poo poo, so playing it "honest" would probably have just gotten them a life of drudgery and misery. People doing what they can in a hosed up situation, and loving over other people in the process, isn't an issue of individual moral failings, and it's hosed up to imply that it is. It's a small, possibly pedantic point, but it's incredibly emblematic of Voyager's incredibly surface level "idealism". Edgy Trek, challenging the ideals of the Federation, but incoherently messing up the message is bad, but comfy trek assuming the ideals of the Federation and incoherently messing up the message is also bad. Discovery is to DS9 as Voyager is to TNG. Both types of Trek can be done poorly. All this is to say that the edgy tone of Discovery is not its issue, and I think it would be fair to say that the modern stuff is better than the Voyager era, even if what you care about is social justice idealism in Star Trek.
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Sep 24, 2019 20:05
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FlamingLiberal posted:It sounds like the returning characters will be in minor roles. Brent Spiner already said that he is not in the show much. Yeah, I'm thinking the cameo hype will be dispensed with in initial few episodes once Riker, Seven, and Data are all out of the way in what will presumably be appearances in the pilot. Though it seems pretty plausible that the Enterprise will show up in the finale, because of course it will
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Sep 24, 2019 20:06
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Though it seems pretty plausible that the Enterprise will show up in the finale, because of course it will They've been burning through ships pretty quickly in recent decades, so it'll probably be the maiden voyage of 1701-Q. It's one of the new Eaves-class pointyships.
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Sep 24, 2019 20:16
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Powered Descent posted:They've been burning through ships pretty quickly in recent decades, so it'll probably be the maiden voyage of 1701-Q. It's one of the new Eaves-class pointyships. Only if John de Lancie is going to make an appearance.
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Sep 24, 2019 20:27
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Eiba posted:With regards to Voyager, social justice, and modern Trek: I don't remember enough of that episode to be sure that it was a "prosperity gospel" type commentary, but there's a fiction trope that whenever someone makes a pragmatic decision to survive, and the odds are somewhere less than but near 50-50 on the "morally good" decision, but then something comes through at the last moment and they didn't have to do it, as the author's way of declaring judgment. I think that the proliferation of this trope has led to an under-appreciation for the fact that sometimes you do have to pay for dedication to doing the right thing, and even then the right thing is still worth doing.
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Sep 24, 2019 20:31
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Eiba posted:Edgy Trek, challenging the ideals of the Federation, but incoherently messing up the message is bad, but comfy trek assuming the ideals of the Federation and incoherently messing up the message is also bad. This is a really good way of relating what's gone wrong with Star Trek since as you point out, the problems in STD aren't unique to that series. However, both shows being products of their time I still think STD is considerably worse than Voyager since badly attempting to challenge the idea of a better world right now feels... especially inappropriate.
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Sep 24, 2019 20:35
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Tighclops posted:This is a really good way of relating what's gone wrong with Star Trek since as you point out, the problems in STD aren't unique to that series. However, both shows being products of their time I still think STD is considerably worse than Voyager since badly attempting to challenge the idea of a better world right now feels... especially inappropriate. Seems really weird from a marketing perspective, too. You'd think that public hunger for optimism would be at a high right now.
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Sep 24, 2019 20:51
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Drink-Mix Man posted:Seems really weird from a marketing perspective, too. You'd think that public hunger for optimism would be at a high right now. I think it takes a very long time for movie and TV makers to pick up on that.
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Sep 24, 2019 20:57
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I really hope the new animated series dies what TAS did and lean hard on 'poo poo we can't do in a live action series'.
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Sep 24, 2019 21:38
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Technowolf posted:I really hope the new animated series dies what TAS did and lean hard on 'poo poo we can't do in a live action series'. What can you not do in a live action series these days?
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Sep 24, 2019 21:52
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skasion posted:What can you not do in a live action series these days? It's more about budget limitations, true. #1 I'd say is believable non-humanoid aliens that aren't tinkerbells or blobs
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Sep 24, 2019 22:00
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cardassian tinkerbell i am not going to expand on this use your own imaginations
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Sep 24, 2019 22:05
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The Bloop posted:It's more about budget limitations, true.  e: oh that aren't blobs 
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Sep 24, 2019 22:10
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lost my old email posted:cardassian tinkerbell i am not going to expand on this use your own imaginations i hate to break it to you but they made ds9
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Sep 24, 2019 22:45
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yo yo yo shut the gently caress up what if what if like dukat was hook out of hook and kira was tinkerbell what about that poo poo? right? obviously damar is smee
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Sep 24, 2019 22:57
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the boo box is... bajor? i need to workshop this some
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Sep 24, 2019 23:01
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rufio is a horta. this has legs. the crocodile is the prophets
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Sep 24, 2019 23:03
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The food fight is a holosuite?
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Sep 24, 2019 23:09
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:The food fight is a holosuite? TOO OBVIOUS WHAT ARE WE EVEN FUKKEN DOING HERE?... sorry for shouting... the food fight is when lwaxana got betazoid dementia and started psychically projecting her emotions but its food now. it is food this time. also that intriguing and apparently edible blue paste that is like nothing i have ever encountered
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Sep 24, 2019 23:16
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skasion posted:What can you not do in a live action series these days? From what I can tell, CGI is real expensive, and it takes a long while for economies of scale to cancel out the expense with asset reuse. And with the standard planet-a-day plot of Star Trek, they'll basically never get those economies of scale going so long as they need to keep making new things. 2D animation can also be expensive, but just about anything can happen and be the same amount of expensive. There's less pressure to limit the weirdness of aliens or backgrounds, and leaves room for creative freedom. At higher budgets, the differences dissipate, but most studios don't have huge amounts of money to burn.
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Sep 24, 2019 23:28
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Tinkerbells?
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Sep 25, 2019 00:10
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shovelbum posted:Tinkerbells? Glowing mote of light aliens. Trek is replete with them. 
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Sep 25, 2019 00:41
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lost my old email posted:yo yo yo shut the gently caress up what if what if like dukat was hook out of hook and kira was tinkerbell what about that poo poo? right? obviously damar is smee Odo is literally a Lost Boy If you look out the promenade window, the wormhole is at the second star to the right The pah-wraiths ate an alarm clock that one time It's amazing, this premise writes itself! (Note: the pah-wraith alarm clock thing may have come from a fever dream and not an actual episode, but I'm sure it can still be made to work.)
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Sep 25, 2019 00:47
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SlothfulCobra posted:From what I can tell, CGI is real expensive, and it takes a long while for economies of scale to cancel out the expense with asset reuse. And with the standard planet-a-day plot of Star Trek, they'll basically never get those economies of scale going so long as they need to keep making new things. Yeah even Game of Thrones with all their money ended up having the dire wolves and dragons chilling offscreen most of the time.
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Sep 25, 2019 01:21
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Eiba posted:With regards to Voyager, social justice, and modern Trek: This is a Good and Correct Post.
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Sep 25, 2019 01:37
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Tighclops posted:This is a really good way of relating what's gone wrong with Star Trek since as you point out, the problems in STD aren't unique to that series. However, both shows being products of their time I still think STD is considerably worse than Voyager since badly attempting to challenge the idea of a better world right now feels... especially inappropriate. They had the Hard Man Making Hard Choices literally say "Make the Empire Great Again" before violently disintegrating him. The whole point of the first season was, "You see this guy compromising our ideals to get the job done? He's the bad guy, don't be like him." That's not to say there weren't really, really big problems with all that, not least the fact that it spent so much time wallowing in all the ways you could be tempted to be poo poo, and kinda flubbed the moral repercussions, but I think the idea of depicting a poo poo world and trying to figure out how to be good is pretty darn timely and appropriate in principle. That's why I'm not entirely negative about the rumors for the third season. A grim future Federation that's lost it's ideals is not an idea I'm interested in at all. But they're not just going to leave it at that. They're going to try to show how you can fix it and revive peace and pluralism in a galaxy that used to value such things. I would not be surprised if they failed to stick the landing again, but that's not a necessarily lovely story to tell.
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Sep 25, 2019 02:21
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Wait, aren't those the rejected Generations uniforms?
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Sep 25, 2019 02:36
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