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Octavo posted:Finished reading the first two Deviant manuscript previews and I'm really liking it. I skipped out on both Contagion and Geist (and Beast /shudder), but Deviant is doing all the things I like. I especially like that this game has really focused themes but a very broad approach to canon/continuity. Since the Deviants' powers are fueled by a soul that's been cracked open, that soul-wound can be caused by super-science, dark rituals, possession, gene hacking, cursed bloodlines, and a ton of other things. There's a lot of conscious effort to be able to emulate specific recurring kinds of characters. To that end, character creation ends up doing way way more to establish the setting of your particular game. Since Touchstones come in two flavors (your confidants and your hated enemies or ritual sites/labs), you end up determining several of them at the beginning along with the conspiracy itself. I understand Beast and Contagion, but why did you skip out on Geist? It's G O O D EDIT: All I know is that Loomer needs to write the OP of whatever thread houses oWoD chat. EDIT2: I honestly don't think they need to be split. We never had a problem with Chronicles vs World vs Anniversary before now. And even the drama from 5th is due to just a couple bad faith posters. Others have posted positive thoughts about 5th that went over well and generated actual discussion. Maybe just a mage chat thread though? Soonmot fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 14:24
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Ettin posted:Hey folks. So the v5 chat here reminded me of the Dungeons & Dragons threads, where we had a rule about taking discussion of the creators and Zak S to the Industry thread The thing is that V5 is essentially a vanity project that's inextricably tied to its awful creator. Any discussion of it eventually comes back around to that elephant. It might be worth breaking the threads up by OPP / WW / Paradox, then letting V5 marinate in its juices until NüWerewoof comes out.
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Sep 26, 2019 14:36
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Ettin posted:Don't Do Edition Wars rule Please god yes, edition wars are the most tired and pointless conversations in gaming but it is my clan bane to engage in them when I see them
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Sep 26, 2019 14:41
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Split the thread. It’s obvious that people can’t handle talking about v5 within this thread in particular and if I want to actually talk about it’s annoying to have to watch Metapod + TheNamedSavior flavor of the week meltdown
Top Hats Monthly fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 14:42
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Soonmot posted:I understand Beast and Contagion, but why did you skip out on Geist? It's G O O D Yeah, that was a mistake in retrospect. I didn't even back to see the manuscripts and I really wish indexing would finish so I can pick it up. I want the new hostile evil Underworld for my Mage game!
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Sep 26, 2019 14:44
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I think the split should be "oWoD/Cofd" and "Parawoof/V5" e: oWoD and CofD co-existed for a long time without any edition warring. The issue is mostly that V5 is somewhat by design hostile to what came before. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 14:51 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 14:47
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Libertad! posted:...had their PC get #metoo'd with a false rape accusation and used said hashtag terminology. At risk of dredging up the poo poo again I take extreme umbrage with this characterization. I literally shared that story as a counterpoint to the other stories you posted, that it is possible to use the setting as a way to explore prescient and tragic issues in a way that’s still respectful of the players and of the issue itself.
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Sep 26, 2019 14:49
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One thread is fine people just need to not be hypocrites and take a step back if they truly dont understand why what they said is wrong and be willing to have a dialogue about things within or people do in the wod that may be problematic instead of attacking like hounds.
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Sep 26, 2019 14:56
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Octavo posted:Finished reading the first two Deviant manuscript previews and I'm really liking it. I skipped out on both Contagion and Geist (and Beast /shudder), but Deviant is doing all the things I like. I especially like that this game has really focused themes but a very broad approach to canon/continuity. Since the Deviants' powers are fueled by a soul that's been cracked open, that soul-wound can be caused by super-science, dark rituals, possession, gene hacking, cursed bloodlines, and a ton of other things. There's a lot of conscious effort to be able to emulate specific recurring kinds of characters. To that end, character creation ends up doing way way more to establish the setting of your particular game. Since Touchstones come in two flavors (your confidants and your hated enemies or ritual sites/labs), you end up determining several of them at the beginning along with the conspiracy itself.  to everything here.The contrast between the Contagion Chronicle and Deviant Kickstarters feels really stark to me. You can see the careful attention Dave B. and Eric Z. have poured into focusing and directing the development of Deviant over multiple years.
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Sep 26, 2019 15:08
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Having just finished an F+F of the Promethean 2e Night Horrors book, I can definitely say I plan to import the Hybrids to Deviant, where they fit way better than they do in Promethean. (Different flavors of body horror; clone warriors and Hybrids feel more Deviant, compared to stuff like Limb Trees or the lady who keeps killing Prometheans to clone her dead kids.)
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Sep 26, 2019 15:10
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I am much more interested in Aeon/Aberrant that World of Darkness at this point, but I feel that shoving it and Scion into their own thread will just result in a totally dead thread. A new thread is probably a good idea, but I don't think any structural changes are necessary. Unless mentioning Beast is an automatic Probe, or shoveling V5 into its own trashcan.
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Sep 26, 2019 15:54
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I Am Just a Box posted:
Like, it's Doom Patrol. It's The Doom Patrol Game. The maniacs may have done it.
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Sep 26, 2019 15:56
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Thanks, everyone mentioning Deviant's mechanical design. This was why I had to put Signs of Sorcery on hold for a year - back in the day, we could and did have whole teams discussing things like Vampire, Werewolf, and Mage second edition, how their rules were going to work, etc, but given various abuses in the industry and the fact that writers are only paid to, you know, write, I had to come up with the design for Deviant's splats, traits and gameplay loop by myself. In bullet point and notecard form, mind, that real writers like Malcolm, Eric, and Chris Allen have turned into a book, playtested, and refined since. My next game should have less moving parts in it. Mind you, I said that about Deviant. That I wanted it to be less complicated than Mage.
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Sep 26, 2019 16:18
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There is no reason to split this into a bunch of more annoying to keep up with subthreads, please don’t do it. I hate the (old?) rpgnet “Vampire 5E (+)” thing.
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Sep 26, 2019 17:04
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I really want to get Deviant but I'm broke as gently caress right now, enough that my Trinity pre-order is getting cancelled. So I'll have to buy it when it come sout. 
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Sep 26, 2019 17:52
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I'm not sure it's appropriate to shield V5 under the pretense of preventing edition slapfights. Nobody is mad that it's not what I grew up with - the issues center aound its roots as a noxious edgelord's pet project and radiate from there.
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Sep 26, 2019 17:53
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Yeah, the problem is much deeper than grousing over mechanics. V5's very existence is predicated on a bunch of edgelord bullshit pushed by an edgelord so incompetent he caused an international incident. I don't think separate threads will solve anything. e: I could probably put in the time for a new WoD OP, on the condition it's got a mod enforced "no V5/VtM discussion whatsoever" rule. The Unlife Aquatic fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 17:59
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V5 kills me because, like I've posted before, it has a bunch of cute mechanical ideas in it that really didn't need to be wasted on the Masquerade setting.
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Sep 26, 2019 18:04
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Soonmot posted:EDIT2: I honestly don't think they need to be split. We never had a problem with Chronicles vs World vs Anniversary before now. And even the drama from 5th is due to just a couple bad faith posters. Others have posted positive thoughts about 5th that went over well and generated actual discussion. Yeah pretty much. This isn't edition warring as a general problem -- Loomer (among others) has been posting about oWoD content in here for years and it's always been cordial (and interesting). This is literally two people, one of whom is already banned from the thread.
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Sep 26, 2019 18:06
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I think V5 is a fairly bad book written by crypto-fascists and I also am getting fairly loving annoyed that every time it comes up there's ten posts in a row saying "V5 is a bad book written by crypto-fascists." It's almost as annoying as the V5 stans / gimmicks who show up and endlessly say "lol, u triggered yet?" Maybe we can update the OP with some information about the controversial history of V5, so people who know nothing about the WoD other than Bloodlines was a good game could make informed decisions? Then within the thread just tell cool stories / argue metaplot lore / share fan-made materials / just generally try not to be lovely regardless of edition? There are a few non-lovely V5 fans here I'd rather not drive away, and if there's the chance that someone could wander in because of V5 and get converted to the glorious I'm also provisionally for starting an entire new thread where all the posts in the first page after the OP is just summaries of Loomer's great work.
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Sep 26, 2019 18:11
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GNU Order posted:At risk of dredging up the poo poo again I take extreme umbrage with this characterization. I literally shared that story as a counterpoint to the other stories you posted, that it is possible to use the setting as a way to explore prescient and tragic issues in a way that’s still respectful of the players and of the issue itself. And it had the opposite effect on me when you originally posted it. “My gm is good because they thought it was a good idea to bring #metoo into a vampire game where an npc did a *false accusation* on a pc” is really gross right on the face of it. Everything after that is just trying to salvage the wreckage.
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Sep 26, 2019 19:09
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The Unlife Aquatic posted:international incident. This did not happen
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Sep 26, 2019 19:23
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my opinion of V5 is that it's a messy book far too much in love with the concept of the vampire as the cool immortal monster that does hosed up poo poo to people, at the expense of some of the more interesting aspects of the premise, which is a shame as the mechanics are maybe the best they've ever been, the highlight being the hunger dice and how the risk they add to rolls makes the push and pull between the human and the beast tangible in a way it hadn't been before basically it's begging for a pruning, and I wouldn't play it with a group I didn't trust absolutely, but it can only get better from here right? right?
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Sep 26, 2019 19:23
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Am I crazy thinking the #MeToo thing is pretty interesting and culturally relevant? When you guys roleplay do you spend three hours covering your mouth with your cape and yelling BLEH at people or what I will say that after playing an entire campaign in V20 that I never once understood how to mark down damage and V5 completely fixes it. Fake edit: where the hell did this nazi stuff come from? Ive only heard about in this thread and the sub reddit
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Sep 26, 2019 19:28
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Blitz7x posted:Fake edit: where the hell did this nazi stuff come from? Ive only heard about in this thread and the sub reddit there were several instances of nazi dogwhistling in the playtest documents for V5, including a sample roll of a one, a four, and two eights and calling the Brujah clan bane "triggered" , while the final book still does say that, amongst other archetypes, some Brujah wind up as neo-nazis
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Sep 26, 2019 19:42
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Swededracula signing emails with "Blood and Souls" was my favorite. Blitz7x posted:Am I crazy thinking the #MeToo thing is pretty interesting and culturally relevant? When you guys roleplay do you spend three hours covering your mouth with your cape and yelling BLEH at people or what A guy wrote up a summary and then got harassed and death threatened off the internet. Some of his claims were tenuous, but others were completely verifiable. #metoo could have been an interesting thing to explore if handled maturely - not the chud take of it being exclusively a tool of misandry.
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Sep 26, 2019 19:44
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I honestly don't think they did it on purpose; they just don't realize that being self-consciously "edgy" gets totally different results in 2019. It's like, you drop your net into the water in a specific place, and you get the kind of fish that live there. But if you wait twenty years and come back, the environment will have changed, the currents will have changed, and doing the same thing will get you a different kind of fish. Paradox Wolf got themselves into trouble because they refused to accept that doing what White Wolf did in the 90s will, if done today, net you a fresh catch of Nazis. I mean, maybe it was intentional? It's hard to say, because sufficiently advanced stupidity can't be distinguished from malice. But I could easily believe they started out doing it by accident, although if they don't alter course in a hurry they're going to end up being infiltrated by the Nazis and worn as a skin suit.
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Sep 26, 2019 19:45
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That's retarded (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 26, 2019 19:47
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Blitz7x posted:Am I crazy thinking the #MeToo thing is pretty interesting and culturally relevant? When you guys roleplay do you spend three hours covering your mouth with your cape and yelling BLEH at people or what Maybe if it wasn’t a false accusation, which speaks to the politics of the writer, or in this case gm. Blitz7x posted:That's retarded 
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Sep 26, 2019 19:54
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gently caress off with the slur dropping, and with the “but what if they simply knew not what they did” bullshit too.
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Sep 26, 2019 19:57
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Digital Osmosis posted:I think V5 is a fairly bad book written by crypto-fascists and I also am getting fairly loving annoyed that every time it comes up there's ten posts in a row saying "V5 is a bad book written by crypto-fascists." It's almost as annoying as the V5 stans / gimmicks who show up and endlessly say "lol, u triggered yet?" This is the reason you get ten posts in a row explaining how V5 is a bad book written by crypto fascists: Metapod posted:This did not happen This kind of gaslight trolling that, if left unchecked, eventually gets accepted as reality. He knows that it absolutely happened, and he knows that it takes more effort to correct his chaff than it does for him to spew it. It's loving exhausting. And it's inevitable in any V5 discussion because V5 was deliberately engineered to be catnip to assholes who delight in this poo poo.
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Sep 26, 2019 19:58
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moths posted:A guy wrote up a summary and then got harassed and death threatened off the internet. Some of his claims were tenuous, but others were completely verifiable. Of note about the episode is that it forced the leadership of White Wolf to push out what's now in the book as "Appendix III: Advice for Considerate Play", which in addition to a full-throated disavowal of the nazi readership, acts as a handy reference document featuring various ways to calibrate your game so as to ensure the safety of everyone involved.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:00
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Yeah the international incident is like, the single least debatable part of V5's history.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:01
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Talking about 5th edition is meaningless because there isn't a 5th edition anymore. Anyone involved in selling the idea and setting the basic guiding direction is gone. It's new management, or rather it's actual management going "Jesus Christ how much bad press do we have to take over your vanity project? Sit in the loving corner and try not to blame the Jews for something for five minutes.". Whatever happens going forward will be divorced from what it was. It's a failed product, and if anything happens to have a "V5" tag next to it in the future it's purely cosmetic. We are, for all intents and purposes, already in the "Building a new edition" stage.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:06
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Thanks metapod and blitz for clearing up any doubts I had. I'll write a new WoD thread as long as we can set a ground rule for V5/VtM being banned topics. There's clearly nothing left to discuss there, and it's driving everyone to insanity. I would rather read mage chat to the end of eternity.
The Unlife Aquatic fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 20:07
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VtM, V20, and VtES are still pretty cool though. No reason to throw out the baby with the poopwater.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:09
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It's all poisoned, and there's no way to salvage what good ideas it does have. At this point it's a matter of damage control, I believe. We can let this keep happening or we can do something about it. I know, for my part, that I and other LGBT people who read this thread are really uncomfortable when VtM comes up and I have to imagine there are others.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:10
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Okay someone got death threats over the internet is being called an international incident??? Like that's bad but people are getting swat teams called on them on twitch so that's really nothing
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Sep 26, 2019 20:13
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There's an extremely clear line between the poisoned and OK segments. And oWoD talk is going to be hamstrung if you can't discuss its flagship because an unrelated game has bad fans. E: Metapod posted:Okay someone got death threats over the internet is being called an international incident??? Like that's bad but people are getting swat teams called on them on twitch so that's really nothing That's not what happened, not what anyone said happened, and a deliberate misdirect you're spamming to derail discussion. Engaging with you is pointless because you already know this. moths fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 20:14
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I don't think people are going to observe a rule that throws the most popular WoD property out of the WoD thread. "It's all poisoned" isn't anything like a consensus.
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Sep 26, 2019 20:14
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