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Jim Silly-Balls posted:That and crud getting on the lenses Isn't sweat leaking into the headset also a factor if you store it that way?
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Sep 27, 2019 14:22
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I def clean the lenses with a microfiber religiously because seeing random crap magnified in the headset drives me insane, I figured that was the case for everyone. Also, I don't have the space for even 3x3, I'm not sweating inside this thing. I'm also never letting anyone else wear this now thanks to your post 
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Sep 27, 2019 14:35
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The great VR conundrum is that HMD’s fall into the same shareable category as underwear and full-face helmets, except unlike underwear and helmets, people want to use your HMD. Gross but true.
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Sep 27, 2019 14:40
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:The great VR conundrum is that HMD’s fall into the same shareable category as underwear and full-face helmets, except unlike underwear and helmets, people want to use your HMD. Gross but true. I got the VR cover set that is meant for conferences and like 100 of the cotton stickers. It's nice being able to just trash the sweat after someone plays beat saber.
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Sep 27, 2019 14:43
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zer0spunk posted:I def clean the lenses with a microfiber religiously because seeing random crap magnified in the headset drives me insane, I figured that was the case for everyone. Also, I don't have the space for even 3x3, I'm not sweating inside this thing. I'm also never letting anyone else wear this now thanks to your post Yea, i wipe out my lenses before/after every use. And if the difference in temperature from my head to the headset is enough to create fog, I'll endure that for five minutes, then pull off and wipe down. I also do a recalibration every single time I put the headset on to make sure I have it positioned just-so.
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Sep 27, 2019 15:33
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NRVNQSR posted:Ars Technica have a decent hands-on with Link and the hand tracking. Yeah, the visual downgrade is pretty severe when tethering the Quest, apparently. Also the latency. The finger tracking is super limited due to the camera FoV on the Quest, and will probably be pretty janky with zero sort of feedback versus holding a controller. So keep your Rift S, there isn't any Quest-exclusive games yet anyways.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:00
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So the Quest, when tethered, is not a good thing? Is it still an upgrade from the OG Oculus Rift?
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Sep 27, 2019 16:03
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chaosapiant posted:So the Quest, when tethered, is not a good thing? Is it still an upgrade from the OG Oculus Rift? Compared to the OG Rift it should generally be a solid upgrade, but much like Rift to Rift S there will be some small trade-offs. The framerate is slightly lower, it sounds like there's some latency if you go looking for it, and some people like the new audio and tracking systems less than the old ones. If you have an OG Rift and don't care about mobile use I'd say Quest Link is in a similar position to Rift S; they're both upgrades but maybe not worth it unless you have money to burn or you can get a good resale price for your OG. Most people are going to care about mobile, though, which makes it an attractive proposition.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:13
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NRVNQSR posted:Compared to the OG Rift it should generally be a solid upgrade, but much like Rift to Rift S there will be some small trade-offs. The framerate is slightly lower, it sounds like there's some latency if you go looking for it, and some people like the new audio and tracking systems less than the old ones. Yea, I get that. I'm looking to get a Rift for my son for xmas and depending on how much I enjoy stealing his, I'd planned to upgrade my Oculus. I just don't want to get him one that's objectively worse than mine. He plans to use it mainly for the same reasons I do: No Man's Sky and Elite Dangerous.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:23
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:Just like they did with the Rift, right? Well the CV1 Rift cable is a propriety connector to carry HDMI, USB, and USB power. The Oculus Link cable just needs to be a long high quality, flexible, light USB cable with normal connectors. I'm sure some cables out there are already pretty good, Oculus said they couldn't find one but that doesn't mean they went looking everywhere and now someone will probably step up and make one.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:29
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Is there latency or isn't there? Most reviews say there isn't and then Ars Technica is saying there's "clearly an extra few frames of latency". So what the hell?
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Sep 27, 2019 16:42
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chaosapiant posted:Yea, I get that. I'm looking to get a Rift for my son for xmas and depending on how much I enjoy stealing his, I'd planned to upgrade my Oculus. I just don't want to get him one that's objectively worse than mine. He plans to use it mainly for the same reasons I do: No Man's Sky and Elite Dangerous. If you're just going into sim games like that where visual fidelity really shines, it's probably worth getting a Rift S over a Quest. A Quest with a Link for your son would be more suited if he was just playing VR in general or gonna take it round to his friends to share.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:44
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Is there any reason the Link can’t be like 2 USB-C or even the same setup as the S/Original? Just seems odd to me the limit yourself to one port but I guess if one work well enough then why bother with anything else.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:50
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AndrewP posted:Is there latency or isn't there? Most reviews say there isn't and then Ars Technica is saying there's "clearly an extra few frames of latency". So what the hell?  Personally I wouldn't buy a quest just for link until its actually released and being used in the real world.
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Sep 27, 2019 16:58
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Neddy Seagoon posted:If you're just going into sim games like that where visual fidelity really shines, it's probably worth getting a Rift S over a Quest. A Quest with a Link for your son would be more suited if he was just playing VR in general or gonna take it round to his friends to share. Maybe I'll go with the S then. It's an xmas gift so hopefully it'll drop in price. And my son is like me...we don't have friends! He's so weird...
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Sep 27, 2019 17:00
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AndrewP posted:Is there latency or isn't there? Most reviews say there isn't and then Ars Technica is saying there's "clearly an extra few frames of latency". So what the hell? There definitely is, technologically there has to be. The question is how much - it could theoretically range from barely noticeable to ALVR level not usuable, and from what I've heard it's close to "not a big deal." Ars Technica said it's roughly on the level of the HTC wireless adapter which seems to be pretty widely considered perfectly fine.
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Sep 27, 2019 17:26
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Okay. I'm not a VR snob who demands the latest and greatest in all aspects, but I generally feel like close-to-perfect latency and tracking are of supreme importance just to make VR "work". But I suppose there is a margin of latency that's still okay and hopefully the Link is within it.
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Sep 27, 2019 17:34
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Sep 27, 2019 18:23
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Lemming posted:There definitely is, technologically there has to be. The question is how much - it could theoretically range from barely noticeable to ALVR level not usuable, and from what I've heard it's close to "not a big deal." Ars Technica said it's roughly on the level of the HTC wireless adapter which seems to be pretty widely considered perfectly fine. Well there is no latency in HMD position. They do a space-wrap so your head position and rotation is correctly shown however there is a slight latency on your hand controllers position/rotation. So far most people seem to say it's very minor.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:30
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it me
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Sep 27, 2019 18:30
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Taintrunner posted:Yeah, the visual downgrade is pretty severe when tethering the Quest, apparently. Also the latency. The finger tracking is super limited due to the camera FoV on the Quest, and will probably be pretty janky with zero sort of feedback versus holding a controller. So keep your Rift S, there isn't any Quest-exclusive games yet anyways. That seems counter to what other hands on impressions have been. Reading the article they seem mostly positive and it seems like you're mischaracterizing what they've said in regards to visual quality.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:35
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Is there any reason the Link can’t be like 2 USB-C or even the same setup as the S/Original? Just seems odd to me the limit yourself to one port but I guess if one work well enough then why bother with anything else. Because the Quest already exists and only has one USB-C port. If tethering it to a PC had been their goal from the start then potentially they could have built it with an extra HDMI port and a display controller, but even giving them the benefit of the doubt that they intended to do so that would still have added cost and weight. AndrewP posted:Okay. I'm not a VR snob who demands the latest and greatest in all aspects, but I generally feel like close-to-perfect latency and tracking are of supreme importance just to make VR "work". But I suppose there is a margin of latency that's still okay and hopefully the Link is within it. I think it's just that there are different kinds of latency, and different reviewers will be commenting on different aspects of their 5-minute demo. Head rotation latency is the most important and with the Link it should be as good as it is everywhere else, since it's doing reprojection on the headset. What the Link will definitely add is some amounts of head position latency and controller tracking latency, which are generally much less of an issue for immersion and often won't be noticeable unless you're doing something that requires really fast and precise head or hand movement - like our old friend Beat Saber. Of course for that specific case you can just
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Sep 27, 2019 18:44
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Is there any reason the Link can’t be like 2 USB-C or even the same setup as the S/Original? Just seems odd to me the limit yourself to one port but I guess if one work well enough then why bother with anything else. USB4 is coming next year with 20 gigabit standard, compared to 10 gigabit for USB 3.x There's a good chance that they'll release a pro or 1.5 version, like the Vive Pro, that has USB4 with significantly better lag and compression USB4 supports up to 40gbps but my guess is that'll be limited to 6 feet, like thunderbolt 3 By using USB 3.x now they can switch to USB4 with very little tooling changes, since it's the same connector, just swap out the USB controller chip and maybe put in a revised snapdragon cpu for slightly better performance, and now you have the Xbox One S or Playstation 4 pro or whatever they're calling mid cycle upgrades these days that are still backwards compatible
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Sep 27, 2019 18:47
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Ideally in a quest 2 they will have a direct signal path to the display from an external source rather than having to send and then decode it as a video. Or they will succeed in doing what Carmack was talking about in his presentation and be able to get direct access to the video processor on the snapdragon so that they can send a much lower level stream that has much less latency than what they can currently do. My feeling on the whole quest link vs rift S is its way to premature to make a buying decision on so waiting until its live in the real world make a lot more sense. Madness I know.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:53
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Hadlock posted:USB4 is coming next year with 20 gigabit standard, compared to 10 gigabit for USB 3.x If their fibre cable works as advertised, that distance is a non-issue. It'd run you about $150-$200 for a cable that'll do 40GB/s, but it'd be doable.
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Sep 27, 2019 18:56
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From what I understood from Carmacks talk the link is only using 150 mbits a second so its well below the capacity of the cable. The bottleneck is how much the snapdragon on the quest can decode in realtime. They are currently sending and decoding entire frames but what Carmack would like to be able to do transmit and decode individual scanlines which would cause less latency. They can't currently do that due to the level of access they have to the video chip on the Snapdragon. So it may well get better in the future on current hardware but if that will actually happen. But just having a fatter pipe isn't going to improve it without a correspondingly faster processor on the quest.
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Sep 27, 2019 19:04
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Neddy Seagoon posted:If their fibre cable works as advertised, that distance is a non-issue. It'd run you about $150-$200 for a cable that'll do 40GB/s, but it'd be doable. Afaik nobody is making fiber USB 3 or Thunderbolt 3 cables Fiber Thunderbolt 2 cables exist but yeah they're like $250 because nobody uses them outside of newsrooms and movie studios. Active copper Thunderbolt 3 cables exist but for 40gbps you're limited to 6 feet and they cost $75+ USB4 is going to be around for a while as a base standard, it's very possible active fiber optic cables will exist at some point in the future but it's a wild guess as to what's going to happen in that space. Going from copper to fiber optic for consumer cables would be a watershed moment, I don't see it on the horizon, but... Maybe? Hadlock fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 19:32
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mashed_penguin posted:From what I understood from Carmacks talk the link is only using 150 mbits a second so its well below the capacity of the cable. The bottleneck is how much the snapdragon on the quest can decode in realtime. ... Yeah he said they could get it done with USB2, the USB3 and C/C cable is so it can carry enough power and to slightly increase reliability. We only have to wait a few weeks to test/play with it ourselves.
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Sep 27, 2019 19:34
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Stick100 posted:Yeah he said they could get it done with USB2, the USB3 and C/C cable is so it can carry enough power and to slightly increase reliability. Yeah, but we can argue about it RIGHT NOW. Thank you Internet. :P
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Sep 27, 2019 20:08
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Hadlock posted:Afaik nobody is making fiber USB 3 or Thunderbolt 3 cables I'm waiting for the day when coprocessors go from metal to fiber/glass. That'll be neat. I'll be old. I like VR.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:37
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Neddy Seagoon posted:I think if Oculus had hand-tracking on the table for the Quest all this time, they really shoud've designed the Touch-S controllers more like the Index ones and let them hang off your hand. Just so that finger-tracking or controller use isn't an either-or proposition like it seems to be. It was mentioned during the detailed presentation on Link that currently they can only track either the hands or the controllers, not that it might not change in the future, but thats all the power they have available. Frankly i'm stunned they're able to get world tracking, CV hand tracking, and games all at the same time out of that little 835. Heck they're also going to allow developers to use a streaming mode where it also does processing on the images and a 3rd camera viewport, also running on top of everything at the same time. crazy stuff
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Sep 27, 2019 20:51
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Tom Guycot posted:It was mentioned during the detailed presentation on Link that currently they can only track either the hands or the controllers, not that it might not change in the future, but thats all the power they have available. Agreed, it absolutely proves out Carmacks point years ago that the devices we have are capable of so much more than we expect because no one has tried really hard to push them.
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Sep 27, 2019 20:55
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mashed_penguin posted:Ideally in a quest 2 they will have a direct signal path to the display from an external source rather than having to send and then decode it as a video. quote:Or they will succeed in doing what Carmack was talking about in his presentation and be able to get direct access to the video processor on the snapdragon so that they can send a much lower level stream that has much less latency than what they can currently do. quote:My feeling on the whole quest link vs rift S is its way to premature to make a buying decision on so waiting until its live in the real world make a lot more sense. Madness I know. If your primary use case is as a PC VR headset though, a Rift S will still be a better choice IMO. As a Vive owner who was already pondering a Quest but also considering another used Vive as a second headset, now the Quest is the obvious choice.
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Sep 27, 2019 21:10
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The Rift S might be the better choice, but it’s not the best choice for everyone. The recommended IPD range on the Rift S is criminally small and cuts out a significant portion of potential users. Me included.
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Sep 27, 2019 21:15
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Hadlock posted:Afaik nobody is making fiber USB 3 or Thunderbolt 3 cables Look at the cabling on the XR-1 
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Sep 27, 2019 21:16
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8-bit Miniboss posted:The Rift S might be the better choice, but it’s not the best choice for everyone. The recommended IPD range on the Rift S is criminally small and cuts out a significant portion of potential users. Me included. o_____o is not normal.
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Sep 27, 2019 21:42
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EbolaIvory posted:The hand tracking, while neat, isn’t something to sell a pc headset on because it’s not great, it’s a neat feature for a mobile headset that can do basic things. What? This is like, the biggest thing for me in terms of VR that I want solved. Always having something in your hands sucks and having super fine motor controls is amazing.
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Sep 27, 2019 21:47
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RFC2324 posted:o_____o is not normal. 
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Sep 27, 2019 21:51
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wolrah posted:
Well Carmack was confident he could reduce the motion to photon latency (of Quest HMD) to less than the Rift S with the rolling shutter optimization because they do a Spacewarp right before rendering. So I think the Oculus Link motion to photon latency is going to be nearly identical between Quest/S. You'll still have some controller latency and compression artifacts but I'm optimistic that the Oculus link will be nearly imperceptible. When ALVR is working well it's hardly noticeable and their solution seems much more optimized.
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Sep 27, 2019 21:51
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sigher posted:What? This is like, the biggest thing for me in terms of VR that I want solved. Always having something in your hands sucks and having super fine motor controls is amazing. You won't have super fine motor controls. Hand tracking will best be used for video and simple enterprise training. For games you're absolutely going to want controllers. Just remember the kinect.
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Sep 27, 2019 21:52
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