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Taerkar posted:That's an impressive level of jumping to conclusions going on there. And most billionaires are likely guilty of at least a few major crimes soooooo... They're "joking". A leftist comedian. Why is this in the news thread though?
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Sep 25, 2019 16:05
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GeneticWeapon posted:No, that was the Catholics. They worship the Mother Mary and pray to her more than Christ 90% of the time. What.
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Sep 25, 2019 17:14
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GeneticWeapon posted:No, that was the Catholics. They worship the Mother Mary and pray to her more than Christ 90% of the time. 
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Sep 25, 2019 17:16
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RandomPauI posted:Hail Mary gets more playtime than the Nicene Creed, less than Our Father. But they're all overshadowed by God Damnit. This should appropriately close that topic, didn't want it to get lost on the last page.
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Sep 25, 2019 18:08
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Ranter posted:They're "joking". A leftist comedian. Because I accidentally posted in the wrong thread  . Here's some actual news. Actually, three separate news items about the same topic: https://twitter.com/axios/status/1175883655526440960?s=19 https://twitter.com/HuffPost/status/1176953750747062274?s=19 https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1176823512100745216?s=19
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Sep 25, 2019 22:00
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A 'nightmare scenario' if Trump pulls US out of global postal union, agency warns 24 Sep 2019 "The Universal Postal Union (UPU) has been holding an emergency meeting in Geneva to persuade Washington not to follow through on a threat to quit the agency, which sets rules to ensure mail gets delivered around the globe." Pastor Robert Jeffress: Rainbows Are God’s Way of Saying Climate Change is Fake September 24, 2019 '“God said he created the environment to serve us, not for us to serve the environment,” Jeffress replied. “This Greta Thunberg, the 16 year-old, she was warning today about the mass extinction of humanity. Somebody needs to read poor Greta Genesis chapter 9 and tell her the next time she worries about global warming, just look at a rainbow; that’s God’s promise that the polar ice caps aren’t going to melt and flood the world again.”' 43 Percent of White Students Harvard Admits Are Legacies, Jocks, or the Kids of Donors and Faculty Sept 23, 2019 "This month, a group of researchers have delivered a sobering look at how affirmative action works for affluent whites at America’s most prestigious university." Boris Johnson told to resign following Supreme Court defeat and become the 'shortest-serving prime minister ever' Sep 24, 2019 "The UK opposition Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, on Tuesday called on Prime Minister Boris Johnson to become the "shortest-serving prime minister" ever as Johnson's opponents lined up to call for his resignation following the dramatic UK Supreme Court ruling that his decision earlier this month to suspend the UK Parliament was illegal." Otteration fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 02:03
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Report on how House Democrats turned it up from 3 to 11 in support of impeachment: Why the House Democratic Caucus Was Able to Move So Rapidly Toward Impeachment "Then Monday night, six of the most vocal opponents of impeachment, the type Raskin was referring to at last week’s meeting, published a joint op-ed in the Washington Post, calling for impeachment proceedings to begin: The authors, all front-line freshmen, included Spanberger, Slotkin, Gil Cisneros of California, Houlahan, Luria, and Sherrill. (Jason Crow of Colorado also signed, but he had previously come out in support of impeachment.)" All from purple states, who had been holding out against impeachment until the initial poo poo hit the turbine and they wrote an oped (no WAPO sub so straight link): https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/09/24/seven-freshman-democrats-these-allegations-are-threat-all-we-have-sworn-protect/
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Sep 26, 2019 02:03
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Otteration posted:Pastor Robert Jeffress: Rainbows Are God’s Way of Saying Climate Change is Fake Even for a hardcore Trump-supporting dumbfuck Evangelical, a statement this dumb is still almost surprising. Seems fitting he made it on Todd Starnes radio show too, who always resembled to me a religious version of Herbert Kornfield from the Onion.
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Sep 26, 2019 06:34
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I should note that while it's been awhile and I've not examined the legal history in detail, the FDA probably can't ban e-cigs due to a lawsuit tobacco companies won against FDA when e-cigs first came under their authority. It'll likely require a new law.
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Sep 26, 2019 07:02
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Otteration posted:Report on how House Democrats turned it up from 3 to 11 in support of impeachment: Non American here, have I got this right about the impeachment: Back when he was vice president, Biden quashed an investigation into things his son was involved with in a shonky Ukrainian power company. Ironically, Biden forced the lead investigator to resign under accusations of being soft on corruption. Now, Trump accuses Biden of having done this to protect his kid and his own arse. He demanded, in a phone call to the president, another investigation in those events and to get his way, had suspended aid to Ukraine. And somehow it's this which has finally caused everyone to lose their poo poo and not the million other hosed up things he's done as president.
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Sep 26, 2019 07:25
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Non American here, have I got this right about the impeachment: More or less. The phone transcript shows more that he was suspending aid for other reasons, but he flat out asks a foreign power to investigate a political rival. It's a giant gaffe even for him because corruptly bettering yourself is something all the rich and powerful in DC do, but openly loving with the other rich and powerful like that turns them against you in a heartbeat.
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Sep 26, 2019 10:58
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Non American here, have I got this right about the impeachment: Biden didn't actually quash the investigation. What investigation there was (it was never targeted at his son) was over when the investigator was dismissed. The entire allegation is bullshit.
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Sep 26, 2019 13:00
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Biden didn't actually quash the investigation. What investigation there was (it was never targeted at his son) was over when the investigator was dismissed. The entire allegation is bullshit. Part of the reason this caught fire is the initial whistleblower complaint was grossly mishandled so instead of being shuffled around like business as usual. Here's a detailed timeline: https://www.vox.com/2019/9/26/20884022/whistleblower-complaint-trump-ukraine-read But long story short, Whistleblower heard this convo and was like "WTF, that seems pretty loving illegal.", filed a complaint. This got escalated up to an Inspector General to validate it, and he's like "Not only is this credible, this is of URGENT CONCERN." So he goes ahead and pushes it up to the Director of National Intelligence, which is the correct escalation path given the parties involved. Legally, at this point, the Director Of National Intelligence was supposed to have validated it themselves, and then informed Congress. Instead, they informed the Justice Dept and the White House, who ordered them NOT to tell Congress, and instead go have a drink at a Trump Hotel bar (I'm assuming). So, a month goes by, and the Inspector General who first approved the complaint as credible and urgent was like "Hey, Congress, just out of curiosity, what's going on with the Whistleblower Complaint I filed last month?" Congress throws back a "WTF you talking about?", so he responds with a "You know, the complaint I filed last month and escalated to the Director of National Intelligence where a high ranking member of the government is doing illegal poo poo while on the phone with the head of a foreign country." This absolutely caught fire and lead to (among other things) the Senate voting 100-0 to force the Office Of The Director of National Intelligence to give them the goddamn report EVEN THOUGH LEGALLY HE ALREADY SHOULD HAVE.
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Sep 26, 2019 17:19
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Difi and Pelosi say "Concentration camps are A-OK. But insulting Joe Biden is an impeachable offense." The law exists to protect the powerful and exploit the weak.
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Sep 26, 2019 17:43
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Biden didn't actually quash the investigation. What investigation there was (it was never targeted at his son) was over when the investigator was dismissed. The entire allegation is bullshit. Blue Footed Booby posted:Biden didn't actually quash the investigation. What investigation there was (it was never targeted at his son) was over when the investigator was dismissed. The entire allegation is bullshit. I would echo this. Here are 2 articles, the first a long but comprehensive writeup from May of this year when Trump’s personal attorney Guilani was seeking info from Ukraine, seemingly at the behest of his client, the 2nd by James Risen who has done extensive work around US national security, it's surveillance activities and even indicted due to his writing about secret info provided by a CIA employee so is highly credible and well sourced. https://theintercept.com/2019/09/25...ory-upside-down https://theintercept.com/2019/05/10/rumors-joe-biden-scandal-ukraine-absolute-nonsense-reformer-says Risen wrote about this back in 2015 - essentially that everyone (ie US, IMF and others involved in diplomatic efforts there) knew that the Ukrainian prosecutor general at the time, Shokin, was lousy, corrupt and in fact undermining reform efforts. VP Biden was dispatched by Obama to demand better anti-corruption efforts, which Shokin seemingly ignored or continued to enable bad actors, leading the US to push for his removal or resignation, especially given the significant aid being provided and the potential for Russia to use this corruption to continue undermining Ukraine during and after the annexation of Crimea. The year before this, Biden’s failson Hunter joined the board of a prominent Ukrainian oligarch’s gas company, Burisma, which was under investigation by the prosecutor general. Failson Biden was ostensibly to provide more accountability and governance to the company but what his actual responsibilities or actions taken were vague. (A legitimate question imo is what in fact the oligarch thought he was getting by hiring the son of the VP, with no clear qualifications in this area). This awkward situation seemingly undercut VP Biden due to the appearance of conflict of interest but in reality, VP Biden pushing a corrupt prosecutor out for one more focused on rooting out malfeasance would if anything actually expose Hunter Biden if he was also benefiting from being on the board of this company. Ultimately there was never prosecution brought against the company and both the US and Ukraine cleared the company of wrongdoing. tldr: Basically Trump/Guiliani has weaponized the corruption in Ukraine and the forcing out of a corrupt prosecutor into something that was itself corrupt for their gain/to then get leverage to use against potential POTUS candidate Biden based upon perceived conflict of interest, leaning on current Ukrainian president to help give them intel that would further fuel their conspiracy theories. sticksy fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Sep 26, 2019 |
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Sep 26, 2019 18:15
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The Case for Trump’s Impeachment Goes Beyond Ukraine Sept 25, 2019 "He has betrayed America with seven countries. Here’s the indictment." Eric Trump brags about foreign development deal right after complaining about the supposed corruption of Joe Biden's son 5:40 p.m. "Eric Trump took to Twitter on Thursday afternoon to agree with Fox News' Mark Levin, who complained that lawmakers "can't touch Hunter Biden" over the supposed corruption scandal President Trump has been harping on about, but can subpoena the Trump siblings. In his very next tweet, the president's son bragged about securing a new phase of Trump Organization development in Scotland." Republicans Say Impeachment Will Backfire. History Says It Won’t Bloomberg: September 26, 2019 "Only three U.S. presidents have ever faced a serious threat of removal by Congress – Andrew Johnson, Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton -- and in each case the party that initiated the inquiry ended up benefiting in the next election." NC Republicans are trying to ban marriage equality because ‘perverted acts’ shouldn’t be protected September 25, 2019 'The co-sponsor of a bill said that he isn't listening to complaints because "God is perfect" and anyone who disagrees can "Tell it to Satan."' 19-Year-Old Indigenous Climate Activist Artemisa Xakriabá: “We Fight for Mother Earth” September 23, 2019 'Friday’s climate strike in New York City concluded with remarks from indigenous leaders, activists and organizers. Artemisa Xakriabá, a 19-year-old indigenous climate activist of the Xakriabá people, spoke about the increasing intensity of environmental destruction across Brazil and the interconnectedness of the fight for climate justice. “We fight for our Mother Earth because the fight for Mother Earth is the mother of all other fights,” Xakriabá said. “We are fighting for your lives. We are fighting for our lives. We are fighting for our sacred territory. But we are being persecuted, threatened, murdered, only for protecting our own territories. We cannot accept one more drop of indigenous blood spilled.”' U.S. income inequality at highest level in 50 years, economic gap growing in heartland Sept. 26, 2019 "Six states with the biggest yearly gains in inequality were primarily in the heartland — Alabama, Arkansas, Kansas, Nebraska, New Hampshire and New Mexico." Alabama, Arkansas, Kansas, Nebraska, New Hampshire, and New Mexico. GM fires Mexican workers for aiding US strikers and calling for cross-border fight against automaker 23 September 2019 Impeachment Shouldn’t Be the Goal of Impeachment September 26, 2019 "In lieu of justice, what I would like is answers. I would like the full story, a complete and detailed account of everyone’s involvement in everything. The whistleblower’s complaint is in large part an explanation of how dedicated the White House is to avoiding public disclosure of malfeasance. The fact that we are able to read it today is proof that impeachment is not a goal in and of itself, but a tool for ferreting out the truth. It should convince any skeptic that an impeachment inquiry should be wide-ranging and inclusive of all the president’s most serious scandals, from his apparent family history of tax fraud, to his ongoing abuse of office for self-enrichment, to his well-documented attempts at obstruction of justice."
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Sep 27, 2019 01:39
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FoolyCharged posted:More or less. The phone transcript shows more that he was suspending aid for other reasons, but he flat out asks a foreign power to investigate a political rival. It's a giant gaffe even for him because corruptly bettering yourself is something all the rich and powerful in DC do, but openly loving with the other rich and powerful like that turns them against you in a heartbeat. The thing about the transcript is that it's part of the White House messaging. The goal with it was to release something, and then make the entire conversation about that thing rather than the general trend. So they do this shuffle where they release the transcript, and they say, "Well, the complaint says X, but actually it's not precisely X when you look at the call (the only one we provided)." while never mentioning the fact that the complaint was broader than a single conversation. So they get to pretend like everything's being taken out of context or being blown out of proportion, but what they're really doing is using the fact that a complaint written about a general pattern doesn't fit in the context of this single case as proof the complaint is wrong. So it's like saying, "well, in this specific conversation Trump never made the quid pro clear, and so therefore it is not possible the quid pro quo was ever clear at any time in history so therefore everything was above board." It ignores the other calls, the other people in the administration working on this project, and the attempted cover-up of the calls. Trump simply suspending aid and trying to do a deal with a foreign country can't be the scandal. That's what presidents are expected to do. The key to this thing is that Trump was using presidential power to benefit himself by hurting a political rival in a way that may have jeopardized national security. The entire thing is the scandal, and that's the way it has to be. If you start splitting it apart then it lets them claim plausible deniability on every piece of it. "Well of course the president gets to make deals." "Well of course the president is also, separately, concerned about corruption." "The president, as commander in chief, gets to make decisions about national security." The entire power of the thing falls apart. This is also why they need to put emoluments in the articles of impeachment. They need to make the pattern of self-dealing clear, and collect the evidence to show it's undeniable. ErIog fucked around with this message at 11:42 on Sep 27, 2019 |
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Sep 27, 2019 11:34
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ErIog posted:
I figure they wish not to cut off the grift for themselves.
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Sep 27, 2019 15:01
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The fight to end Roe v. Wade enters its endgame next week Updated Sep 27, 2019 "The Supreme Court could dismantle the constitutional right to an abortion, and all it has to do is sit on its hands. The constitutional right to an abortion is almost certainly coming to an end — the only question is how long the Supreme Court’s new majority will take to kill it off. It’s not likely to be very long. On October 1, the Supreme Court will meet to decide whether to hear a case that could leave little, if any, of this right standing." One of the Most Powerful Anti-Abortion Groups Is Convinced the End of Roe v. Wade Is Coming Sep 26 2019 '“It’s more of a when than an if." In its 2019 legislative report, released Thursday, Americans United for Life found that so far this year, 58 “life-affirming laws” have been passed in 22 states. That’s more than a 25% spike over 2018. Around 40 abortion restriction-related cases are also currently making their way through the lower courts, and the majority-conservative Supreme Court will soon be forced to take one on, according to Glenn. “Within the next three to five years, we see that as something that’s getting closer and closer to an inevitability. And state legislators see that too, and so they are sort of acting in accordance with that,” Glenn said.' White evangelicals love Trump and aren't confused about why. No one should be. Sept. 27, 2019 "Liberals have a tendency to wring their hands at the strong support President Donald Trump — he of the three wives and multiple affairs, and a tendency to engage in exceedingly un-Christian-like behavior at the slightest provocation — continues to receive from the white evangelical community. White evangelical support for Donald Trump is still at 73 percent, and more than 80 percent of white evangelicals voted for him in 2016. But focusing on the disconnect between Trump's personal actions and the moral aspects of their faith misses the issue that keeps their support firm: racism. Modern evangelicals' support for this president cannot be separated from the history of evangelicals' participation in and support for racist structures in America." Think impeachment will help Trump? He's sure not acting like it September 27, 2019 Self-Impeaching: On the Trump-Zelensky Conversation September 25, 2019 An extremely detailed discussion about what got the orange poo poo smear into this kerfuffle. Useful maybe if your "friends" elsewhere worry about the "legality" of it all. (And because "elsewhere" seems to be producing arguments from 2 weeks ago.) A Phone Conversation Between Dread Lord Nyarlathotep and a Minor Shoggoth Regarding Investigating Rival Great Old One, Hastur September 25, 2019 Nerds! 
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Sep 28, 2019 02:00
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Otteration posted:The fight to end Roe v. Wade enters its endgame next week We're going to spend the rest of our lives trying to repair the damage Trump did, and then climate change will kill us all before we finish.
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Sep 28, 2019 09:15
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Sanguinia posted:We're going to spend the rest of our lives trying to repair the damage Trump did, and then climate change will kill us all before we finish. In the short term, if Kavanaugh outlaws abortion, Olympia Snowe is cooked.
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Sep 28, 2019 13:46
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I'd wager there would be plenty of female congresscritters with a lot to answer for (Collins), but I've learned never to underestimate the complicity of white women. Losing aborting would be horrifically depressing and I hope would spur people to action, but...
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Sep 28, 2019 15:35
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FilthyImp posted:I'd wager there would be plenty of female congresscritters with a lot to answer for (Collins), but I've learned never to underestimate the complicity of white women. the only moral abortion is my abortion
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Sep 28, 2019 20:32
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A Former ICE Chief Melts Down slate.com/Sept 27, 2019 "Thomas Homan, like the agency he led, rejects any limits on his power. Thomas Homan, the Trump administration’s acting director of Immigration and Customs Enforcement from January 2017 to June 2018, helped to transform the agency into an arm of Donald Trump’s nativist agenda. During his 17 months, ICE escalated its terror tactics against immigrant communities, tormented thousands of individuals in ICE custody, and lied to federal courts. On Thursday, asked to answer for his agency’s conduct and policies in a congressional hearing, he responded with a meltdown that perfectly captured a lawless organization’s rejection of any rules or authority that might limit its power." Hunter Biden’s Perfectly Legal, Socially Acceptable Corruption theatlantic.com/Sep 27, 2019 "Donald Trump committed an impeachable offense, but prominent Americans also shouldn’t be leveraging their names for payoffs from shady clients abroad." Tesla violated labor laws by blocking union organizing, judge rules cnbc.com/Sep 27 2019 "Administrative Law Judge Amita Baman Tracy found that CEO Elon Musk violated national labor laws when he implied via tweet that Tesla workers who unionized would have to give up their company stock options." All college students should take a mandatory course on black history and white privilege usatoday.com/Sept. 23, 2019 Facebook Is Making Millions by Promoting Hate Groups’ Content sludge.com/Sep 25, 2019 "Despite a company policy banning hate speech, the social media giant has taken in nearly $1.6 million from hate groups since mid-2018."
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Sep 29, 2019 00:33
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Sanguinia posted:We're going to spend the rest of our lives trying to repair the damage Trump did, and then climate change will kill us all before we finish. How about, maybe, (and just spitballing here) LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE! Just a thought. We should maybe form a committee first or something.
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Sep 29, 2019 00:39
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Otteration posted:A Phone Conversation Between Dread Lord Nyarlathotep and a Minor Shoggoth Regarding Investigating Rival Great Old One, Hastur I enjoyed this immensely. Thank you.
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Sep 29, 2019 23:01
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'Make the time, or quit': Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez demands lawmakers read the bombshell 9-page whistleblower report after some said they didn't look at it yet businessinsider.com/Sep. 27, 2019 Pelosi: Impeachment worth losing House in 2020 thehill.com/09/28/19 "Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) indicated Saturday that successfully pursuing impeachment of President Trump would be worth losing the Democrats' House majority in 2020. People say you have to take a political risk doing that," she continued. "That doesn't matter. That doesn't matter. Because we cannot have a president of the United States undermining his oath of office, his loyalty to his oath of office, undermining our national security, and undermining the integrity of our elections." No idea. Stephen Miller: Trump Is the Real Whistle-blower Uncovering Corruption nymag.com/5:55 P.M. '“Do you want a democracy in this country or do you want a deep state?” Miller asked and answered. “It’s a binary choice for the American people.” He may have forgotten the word “false” in there before “binary.”'
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Sep 30, 2019 01:43
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:the only moral abortion is my abortion The only moral abortion is my $100,000 cash under the table abortion.
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Sep 30, 2019 01:45
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Otteration posted:"Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) indicated Saturday that successfully pursuing impeachment of President Trump would be worth losing the Democrats' House majority in 2020. If she actually believed that the house was at risk, we would not be moving forward with impeachment hearings. The thing that has changed is that the American people were so stunned and repulsed by the Ukraine stuff, that impeachment is now a net positive politically.
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Sep 30, 2019 15:18
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Rigel posted:If she actually believed that the house was at risk, we would not be moving forward with impeachment hearings. The thing that has changed is that the American people were so stunned and repulsed by the Ukraine stuff, that impeachment is now a net positive politically. I'm actually pretty amazed we had it in us to be stunned and repulsed by it. I was cynically quite sure there was nothing short of nuclear hellfire that would make us sit up and take notice and actually get mad anymore.
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Sep 30, 2019 15:33
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Data Graham posted:I'm actually pretty amazed we had it in us to be stunned and repulsed by it. I was cynically quite sure there was nothing short of nuclear hellfire that would make us sit up and take notice and actually get mad anymore. I honestly think the difference here is Trump failed to spin this one. I'm not sure if it was just the timing, his team not understanding the issue or failing to corral him, or something completely different. But instead of this falling into the "More Trump Bullshit" category, he looked guilty and desperate the second it came out. Maybe it's because he doesn't know who the whistleblower is, so he couldn't hurl slurs and insults at them? Maybe somebody he trusts told him that's pretty treasonous and he could be in trouble and he flinched? Either way, he finally bled a little bit, and the sharks showed up. I'm still not convinced we're not going to gently caress this up real hard, but it's a nice change of pace.
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Sep 30, 2019 16:47
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Relentless posted:I honestly think the difference here is Trump failed to spin this one. I also think that Trump's monumental arrogance - and quite possibly the deteriorating state of his brain - are part of how badly he's been handling this so far. Not much has really stuck to him yet, so he probably doesn't regard this as anything serious.
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Sep 30, 2019 17:15
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Cythereal posted:I also think that Trump's monumental arrogance - and quite possibly the deteriorating state of his brain - are part of how badly he's been handling this so far. Not much has really stuck to him yet, so he probably doesn't regard this as anything serious. Since the time between the final appearance of Mueller in congress (and his relevance essentially petering out) and Trump calling Ukraine for crimes was approximately 12 hours, it’s plain that he thought he was totally in the clear and basically untouchable for anything he might want to do from then on. He’s genuinely gobsmacked that something’s actually happening to him.
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Sep 30, 2019 18:00
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Discendo Vox posted:I should note that while it's been awhile and I've not examined the legal history in detail, the FDA probably can't ban e-cigs due to a lawsuit tobacco companies won against FDA when e-cigs first came under their authority. It'll likely require a new law. Another thing we're seeing is that banning substances doesn't really work. You aren't going to get 0% of people smoking nor will you ever completely get rid of e-cigs and vapes. Turns out the better option is to tax them with all the costs they end up incurring with the increased risks of smoking-related stuff. I also heard a study recently that apparently only smoking tobacco is bad for you. Chewing or dipping doesn't really do much. Obviously take that with a crate of salt but even so; people like tobacco and vaping. Banning it entirely would just drive it underground and we've all seen what that leads to. Vaping and e-cigs are too new to know for sure exactly how bad they are. I imagine the government will sin tax it like tobacco gets now though that's less the FDA and more the states, I think.
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Sep 30, 2019 19:23
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Another thing we're seeing is that banning substances doesn't really work. You aren't going to get 0% of people smoking nor will you ever completely get rid of e-cigs and vapes. Turns out the better option is to tax them with all the costs they end up incurring with the increased risks of smoking-related stuff.
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Sep 30, 2019 19:27
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JazzFlight posted:Not to start a huge tobacco derail, but I thought people have much higher risks for oral cancers & gum/tooth loss from chew tobacco? According to the study that was apparently misinformation; tobacco chewers had about the same rate of oral cancer as people who never used tobacco at all. I have no idea where to dig it up now but somebody looked at both the numbers and medical information. Turns out that if somebody died of oral cancer but was a chewer they'd just assume the tobacco caused it. Turns out that wasn't going on; similar things happened with second hand smoke. Yes it's bad but it wasn't as bad as thought as if somebody that lived with a smoker died of a heart attack it just defaulted to "heart attack caused by second-hand smoke." Sometimes that was true but sometimes it wasn't. Data on that sort of thing has turned out to be hard to parse as a lot of the old medical information on such things turned out to be not entirely accurate. I'm by no means an expert on such things but it seems that smoking tobacco is specifically the thing that is bad. Nicotine is of course addictive as hell and tobacco isn't exactly good for you but it's not quite as bad as it's made out to be. ToxicSlurpee fucked around with this message at 19:34 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 19:32
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I read someone made the point that Trump's risk assessment instinct is so distorted because he's always taken insane chances only be bailed out by Daddy or someone else, plus combined with his legions of sycophants and friendly media, that he finally underestimated how far he could push this and reverted to instinct a day after the Mueller report dropped.
sticksy fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Sep 30, 2019 |
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Sep 30, 2019 19:48
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ToxicSlurpee posted:According to the study that was apparently misinformation; tobacco chewers had about the same rate of oral cancer as people who never used tobacco at all. I have no idea where to dig it up now but somebody looked at both the numbers and medical information. Turns out that if somebody died of oral cancer but was a chewer they'd just assume the tobacco caused it. Turns out that wasn't going on; similar things happened with second hand smoke. Yes it's bad but it wasn't as bad as thought as if somebody that lived with a smoker died of a heart attack it just defaulted to "heart attack caused by second-hand smoke." Sometimes that was true but sometimes it wasn't. Data on that sort of thing has turned out to be hard to parse as a lot of the old medical information on such things turned out to be not entirely accurate. Most of the "chewing tobacco may cause oral cancer" stuff actually has to do with a type of powdered tobacco that was used and not the shredded stuff or snus most people use. As far as I'm aware it was one single study. People who used the powdered stuff are at a heightened risk while people who use snus don't run as high of a risk. I'm sure someone will probably yell and scream about that so I'd suggest they look at cancer rates among Swedes who are probably the country with the highest adoption rates of snus and compare that to the rates of death and disease among smokers. Obviously no use is best, but that's not how harm reduction works.
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Sep 30, 2019 19:59
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ToxicSlurpee posted:According to the study that was apparently misinformation; tobacco chewers had about the same rate of oral cancer as people who never used tobacco at all. I have no idea where to dig it up now but somebody looked at both the numbers and medical information. Turns out that if somebody died of oral cancer but was a chewer they'd just assume the tobacco caused it. Turns out that wasn't going on; similar things happened with second hand smoke. Yes it's bad but it wasn't as bad as thought as if somebody that lived with a smoker died of a heart attack it just defaulted to "heart attack caused by second-hand smoke." Sometimes that was true but sometimes it wasn't. Data on that sort of thing has turned out to be hard to parse as a lot of the old medical information on such things turned out to be not entirely accurate. My understanding is that cancer formation has been found to be significantly affected by the processing method of the various smokeless tobacco products. There's a large number of chemicals involved, including formaldehyde, polonium, lead, etc., and as such major differences may be introduced during production. In particular dry snuff introduces a high risk of oral cancer, while moist snuff and chewing tobacco (which are more common in the United States) introduce a relatively low risk of oral cancer. There's been a variety of different studies on this issue, and I'm not an expert in the field, but this article review has a compelling summary: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4268996/ Of course cancers are only one of the increased risks due to tobacco usage. Higher blood pressure, cardiovascular stress, and other typical health concerns common for cigarette smokers are also shared by tobacco chewers, etc.
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Sep 30, 2019 20:00
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| # ? May 27, 2024 04:31 |
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e;fbToxicSlurpee posted:I'm by no means an expert on such things but it seems that smoking tobacco is specifically the thing that is bad. Nicotine is of course addictive as hell and tobacco isn't exactly good for you but it's not quite as bad as it's made out to be. So, just a quick google says you're probably referring to this study, by the Wyss Institute at Harvard: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5141945/ But most of the discussion around this seems to be from a pair of conservative think tanks, R Street and The Heartland Institute (who were the same place until 2012 when they got into a spat about climate change). Everybody else seems to have noted it as "Huh, that's a weird fluke that they didn't come up with the same results as everyone else for the last 30 years." This commentary is attached, but this seems to be the key point: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5141946/ quote:Yet, despite the large sample size, only 44 cases and 62 controls had used snuff and only 61 cases and 96 controls had used chewing tobacco in the absence of cigarettes, precluding detailed examinations of dose response and cessation. I am not a scientist, but offhand they've got a pretty small sample size, and they're not measuring how much of smokeless/smoked tobacco is used. It's also just a single study, so... I'm sure as gently caress not gonna take up chew because of that paper.
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Sep 30, 2019 20:03
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