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Ferrule posted:Wires on the "Line" side? Fixed it. The line/load were switched.
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Sep 23, 2019 17:54
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Soooo I replaced a switch today (2 gang 2 way, annoyingly across two circuits), diligently noted down the existing connections, mapped them to the appropriate new locations, screwed the plate back in, switched the power on and.... Lights are OK for a few seconds then a loud "pop" from the switch and the smell of burning electronics. Not good. One side has blown something and I can't figure out why. The connections are identical to the previous ones, and match up with diagrams I've seen for this colour coding, so based on the insulation looking a bit damaged I'm guessing maybe a wire has failed? But then would that make such a distinctive noise and trip the breaker out?
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Sep 30, 2019 00:41
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:Soooo I replaced a switch today (2 gang 2 way, annoyingly across two circuits), diligently noted down the existing connections, mapped them to the appropriate new locations, screwed the plate back in, switched the power on and.... Lights are OK for a few seconds then a loud "pop" from the switch and the smell of burning electronics. What do you mean "across two circuits"? You mean two separate switches on different circuits in the same box? Where did you find the damage? Copper becomes brittle as it's worked, so if the wire is old/you were manipulating it a lot that might explain it. Is it a metal enclosure? If you weren't careful with stripping the right lengths/screwing everything down just right then it might have shorted to the box.
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Sep 30, 2019 15:03
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Hubis posted:What do you mean "across two circuits"? You mean two separate switches on different circuits in the same box? Yeah exactly, one side was fine, the other shorted. Rather than mess with it further I got an electrician round who said "probably shorted to the box because these wires are super long and this brand of switch can be trouble", I had just used the existing stripped ends as is which with hindsight wasn't a good idea as it was a tiny back box so it was fine until I screwed it back in which must have compressed the wires, bent an exposed end round and shorted or grounded. Anyway he replaced all the other switches I had on the list as well seeing as it was pay by the hour so job done. Still, I know the fuse box works!
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Oct 2, 2019 11:13
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Looking on advice on how to wire up some vanity lights correctly/to code. Just moved into a ranch that has't had any updates in a LONG while. The bathroom has a recessed medicine cabinet with built-in fluorescent lights on each side...currently the only light in the bathroom, no overhead light OR fan (I have a light/fan combo and this weekend will be crawling around in the attic trying to install it...hardest part will be fishing wires from the lightswitch for the bathroom to the attic.) I want to replace the cabinet, but it looks like modern cabinets w/ built in lights are expensive and kind of ugly. I'd prefer just a row of lights along the top and/or side of a mirror. I'm wondering how I can do that to code. Right now, there is a small access hatch in the top of the cabinet and underneath it are the wires coming from the switch attached with wire nuts to the lights on the cabinet. I'm not sure if this is up to current code, it's not in a real box, but maybe since it does have that access hatch it's ok? But if I replace it with a regular medicine cabinet, I lose that...so...will I have to fish new wire all the way back to the switch if I don't have enough slack there currently to wire up to the new fixture? I imagine if I go for a light over the mirror/medicine cabinet, I'd be fine, but if I wanted to do side lights, I'd be screwed? Especially since I'd need it on both sides, so really, I'd have to re-route the wires up to the attic into a box so I can have two drops from it coming down to both sides?
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Oct 3, 2019 15:24
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You need a real junction box. It's not about access, it's about protecting the wires and securing them so no tension goes through the connection.
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Oct 3, 2019 18:01
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DrBouvenstein posted:Looking on advice on how to wire up some vanity lights correctly/to code. You don't need a fan if you have a large enough window that can open. If it's a sealed box inside the cabinet that's UL approved with only electrical stuff in it, then it counts. There are products from Tyco that allow for buried splices, depending on if you have /2 or /3 wire. That being said, using the existing cable depends on how much slack you have and how it was ran. Most houses the wire from switch to light is ran the shortest route: drill holes in the studs in between. However, I've seen other houses where the wires were ran from the switch up to the attic, across to where the stud cavity where the other box was, then down to the box. I guess copper was cheaper in those days than the labor of drilling more holes. Coincidentally, that other method is how wire is ran for retrofits now. Basically, you cut the existing box out of the wall, cut out for an old work box in the new location, drill holes and fish the cable between. The existing box is held to the stud with nails or a bracket. Use an oscillating tool or a pocket hacksaw to saw through that. Loosen the wire clamps in the box and slowly remove it from the wall. Drilling the holes can be done 2 ways. You can drill down from the attic if you have enough room and can figure out where on which top plate to drill into. The other option is to use a bendy bit and drill up from where you cut the box out. Once you got the holes in place, you can fish your cable. Use either fish tape or fish sticks for this. Fish sticks can push or pull, but don't turn corners well. Fish tape can only pull, but can turn corners well. Keep in mind that you can daisy chain from one box to another to control both lights.
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Oct 3, 2019 18:32
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kid sinister posted:You don't need a fan if you have a large enough window that can open. Thanks for the help. I would say it's probably not UL approved, I'll take pictures when I get home tonight. And it's a small bathroom with an...average sized window, I guess? But I don't relish the idea of opening a window when I take a shower on a cold winter morning. Surprisingly, though, there's no mildew in the bathroom. The previous occupant was an older woman, so maybe she took more baths? Less aerosolization of the hot water, less steam, etc.. I'll also check to see if I can come up from the basement with the wires. It's a first floor bathroom, unfinished basement. It might be easier to run 100% wire to both the switch and lights, sort of going the reverse of what you said bout the attic (i.e. go around the walls through the floor/basement rather than ceiling/attic.) I'm also doing more thinking and realized I'd prefer to have separate controls for overhead light/fan, and vanity lights. It might be too much work, but I'd like to take the current switch (located outside bathroom, unfortunately) and have that control overhead light+fan (and perhaps run another line and install a second switch so the light can be on without the fan), then see if I can install a new switch on the wall next to the vanity to control those lights.
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Oct 3, 2019 19:10
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I'm really mad at myself because I roughed in an addition perfectly except I didn't pull three wires for the smokes like an idiot so now I have to chop out the ceiling and pay for drywall repair because I am dumb and a fool. Please make fun of me for my brain fart.
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Oct 3, 2019 19:37
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Ferrule posted:I'm really mad at myself because I roughed in an addition perfectly except I didn't pull three wires for the smokes like an idiot so now I have to chop out the ceiling and pay for drywall repair because I am dumb and a fool. Please make fun of me for my brain fart. lol
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Oct 3, 2019 20:39
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Don't battery-only smoke detectors still exist?
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Oct 3, 2019 21:20
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IOwnCalculus posted:Don't battery-only smoke detectors still exist? not code though-- they need to communicate with all the other detectors
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Oct 3, 2019 21:30
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Yeah. I have to put battery ones in the existing bedrooms of the house, but the one smoke and one combo have to be in series because they're new construction. It was a "hey man I got drywall coming Tuesday so can you finish?" situation and in haste I pulled 2 wires instead of 3. If I was still back in Chicago and this was pipe it wouldn't even be a thing. (they aren't very far apart and I think I can drop a recessed can to drill through one joist and I can fish it but dammit that comes out of my profit line because I wasn't thinking) PYF job site brain farts.
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Oct 3, 2019 21:53
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While we are on smoke detector chat.. Is there one that won't go off from just the action of opening my oven? My house is laid out in such a way that the hallway ends by my small kitchen. I guess it is code that a detector has to be placed at the end of a hallway? So I have a detector not 10ft from my oven.
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Oct 3, 2019 22:02
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Ferrule posted:PYF job site brain farts. Was working at a US air force base as part of a pretty large job renovating the building that housed their current freight distribution hub, and future air traffic tower. One of the GC’s employees flipped the Lull over, on the edge of the flight line. 4 wheel steering, high speed, and carrying a load high on the forks is a poor combination. He was uninjured somehow, despite not wearing his seat belt, but the fuel tank ruptured and proceeded to spill the entirely of its contents. The USAF fire department response was.... Thorough. I don't think they get a lot of action. Especially since this was the day before POTUS had a scheduled stop here (G.W. Bush -showing my age) But that's not all! The employee operating the Lull failed a drug test, and was found to not currently be in the USA legally. We all had to pass a background check to get permanent base passes, so not sure where that failed. Anyhow suffice to say, not a lot of work got done on that day. About a week later, my supervisor got busted trying to drive on base with only a (non-DL) state issued ID card. At some point, he had gotten a DUI and lost his license but neglected to tell anyone. Could have completely gotten away with it but just HAD to continue leaving mid-day to make supply runs instead of sending one of us. We had to find someone to carry us to get the truck out of impound, and he got arrested. And fired. Feel better? You could be a much bigger gently caress up.
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Oct 3, 2019 22:31
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stevewm posted:While we are on smoke detector chat.. Is there one that won't go off from just the action of opening my oven? Photoelectrics should be less susceptible to kitchen false alarms, as they need enough particulate matter in the air to block a light source.
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Oct 3, 2019 22:46
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Qwijib0 posted:Photoelectrics should be less susceptible to kitchen false alarms, as they need enough particulate matter in the air to block a light source. I'll have to check which type it is then. Because it's annoying as hell. It has led to everyone in the household flipping the breaker for the detectors when cooking. Opening the microwave, oven, or even turning on a burner on the stove means setting it off and then all the detectors in the house going off. They are far too sensitive.
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Oct 3, 2019 23:30
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Qwijib0 posted:not code though-- they need to communicate with all the other detectors There are wireless ones that can interconnect with wired ones, like https://www.firstalert.com/product/interconnected-smoke-alarm-with-hardwire-adapter-included/
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Oct 4, 2019 00:01
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DrBouvenstein posted:Thanks for the help. I would say it's probably not UL approved, I'll take pictures when I get home tonight. So here's what the existing light setup looks like:   
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Oct 4, 2019 13:16
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Ferrule posted:I'm really mad at myself because I roughed in an addition perfectly except I didn't pull three wires for the smokes like an idiot so now I have to chop out the ceiling and pay for drywall repair because I am dumb and a fool. Please make fun of me for my brain fart. As was mentioned before, First Alert has an entire line of wireless interconnected fire and co2 alarms. Our inspectors wouldn't pass them until 2016ish, they wanted to see hard wired inter-connectivity. So check with your local inspectors first. But buying two of the First Alerts will take a lot less time to get working. I've been using them for several years and really like them, just wish they also offered a z-wave model with the inter-connectivity.
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Oct 4, 2019 14:39
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That just looks like internal wiring to me, you may still have a normal box behind the vanity.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:14
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stevewm posted:I'll have to check which type it is then. Because it's annoying as hell. It has led to everyone in the household flipping the breaker for the detectors when cooking. Opening the microwave, oven, or even turning on a burner on the stove means setting it off and then all the detectors in the house going off. Get photoelectric detectors for near the kitchen. I'm 99% sure you have ionizing right now; they tend to be hyper sensitive to cooking, unless everything you're doing is producing a lot of visible steam (which will trip a photoelectric). If they're interconnected, you may be able to mix and match technologies so long as you stay within the same brand (check with the smoke alarm maker re: model #s and such).
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Oct 4, 2019 20:03
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HycoCam posted:As was mentioned before, First Alert has an entire line of wireless interconnected fire and co2 alarms. Our inspectors wouldn't pass them until 2016ish, they wanted to see hard wired inter-connectivity. So check with your local inspectors first. But buying two of the First Alerts will take a lot less time to get working. I've been using them for several years and really like them, just wish they also offered a z-wave model with the inter-connectivity. I read that post/link from above this morning. Seemed some reviews listed issues. And the instructions on that site still showed 3 wires and no instructions for the wireless but those may be in the box. Doesn't matter. I pulled out a recessed can housing to get into a joist space and drilled some holes and re-pulled my wire so it's done. But thank you. I'm just mad at myself.
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Oct 4, 2019 20:39
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DrBouvenstein posted:Thanks for the help. I would say it's probably not UL approved, I'll take pictures when I get home tonight. I swear that there's a table for this somewhere online. Your window must have so much square footage compared to the square footage of your bathroom. Mildew from your bathing steam usually isn't that much of a problem. It depends on your local climate. Any home less than under a waterfall probably won't have a problem with the rest of the house absorbing the extra humidity. The fan/window is more for bathroom smells. The same goes for routing wires through basements. However, the problem you may run into this time is fire blocks! Fire blocks are wood mounted between studs about halfway up the wall to prevent fire climbing stud cavities. Given the height that light switches and wall sconces are mounted at, wiring through the ceiling usually avoids fire blocks. It's possible to drill past fire blocks with the flexy bits, but it's a big pain in the rear end to fish wires past them. Remember how I said to cut the existing box out of the wall? Once you got the existing box out, it can be possible to cut the hole larger for a bigger box with more gangs for more switches. Before you start cutting however, feel around in the wall for the next stud. Make sure that you have enough room for a wider box before you start cutting the wall away.
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Oct 4, 2019 21:03
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STR posted:Get photoelectric detectors for near the kitchen. I'm 99% sure you have ionizing right now; they tend to be hyper sensitive to cooking, unless everything you're doing is producing a lot of visible steam (which will trip a photoelectric). They must be the ionizing type because they are all ridiculously sensitive. Just extinguishing a candle in the same room as one will set it off. False alarms are so common everyone has learned to just ignore them. Once I opened the toaster oven after someone had used it an hour previously. Even that set the drat kitchen one off. I'll have to drag the ladder in and check it out when I get home.
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Oct 4, 2019 21:11
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The UL has new standards that require smoke detectors to not alarm for typical kitchen stuff. https://www.ul.com/news/ul-releases-new-requirements-smoke-alarm-standards-opens-new-test-lab It's not clear to me how to tell if a particular model was certified under the new standard, but I would guess a new detector will perform better.
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Oct 4, 2019 22:35
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Just a reminder to do-it-yourselfers and so on to please make sure you install the proper dimmers for your ceiling fans/lights. This was a service call I just went to. In a nursery. 
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Oct 7, 2019 19:52
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Well they're only kids. I'm sure they'll get it right the next time. Was that a light-only dimmer wired to a ceiling fan?
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Oct 7, 2019 20:01
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SpartanIvy posted:Well they're only kids. I'm sure they'll get it right the next time. Yup. I guess it started melting/sparking Saturday. Breaker blew, thankfully. Homeowner had seen my work truck and called me today. I also removed another light-only dimmer from another fan/light combo in another room.
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Oct 7, 2019 20:05
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SpartanIvy posted:Well they're only kids. I'm sure they'll get it right the next time. I think it was a plant.
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Oct 7, 2019 20:09
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Ferrule posted:I guess it started melting/sparking Saturday. Breaker blew, thankfully. Homeowner had seen my work truck and called me today. I also removed another light-only dimmer from another fan/light combo in another room. Wait, let me make sure I'm understanding this: people are wiring up ceiling fans on (under rated) dimmers to control fan speed? That's one I haven't run into before, and I've had a LOT of stupid stuff come to me in my fire marshal days.
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Oct 7, 2019 20:10
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Hell, it's a 3-way dimmer at that, wired to a fan/light. There's only one switch-leg going to the fixture. So they should have been using pull chains or at least a fixture with a remote. Frankly I'm surprised the other one didn't catch fire or look like this when I replaced it. edit: to answer your question, yes. that's exactly what someone did.
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Oct 7, 2019 20:13
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Honestly it's a pretty easy mistake to make. The packages I've seen at the store were not very clearly marked and your average person is a moron who is used to the consumer electronics mindset that if something can be plugged in to something else, it means it's safe.
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Oct 7, 2019 20:16
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Totally. Although I'm more accustomed to seeing non-LED dimmers used with LED fixtures, that sort of thing, than this.
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Oct 7, 2019 20:20
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Motronic posted:Wait, let me make sure I'm understanding this: people are wiring up ceiling fans on (under rated) dimmers to control fan speed? That's one I haven't run into before, and I've had a LOT of stupid stuff come to me in my fire marshal days. One of the first home repairs I did to my house was this. I could hear the fan motor struggling, popped the cover and it was a dimmer not a fan speed controller. Edit: From September 2015: H110Hawk posted:Replacing a incandescent dimmer switch which was hooked up to a fan (thanks!) with a light switch. Is it possible to add a grounding wire while I have it open or is that a silly idea because what would it even ground to?
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Oct 7, 2019 21:09
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I guess none of this should surprise me. But I've very rarely seen fan speed controllers in my general area. Everyone seems to use pull chains or remotes with a separate (potentially dimmer) switch for the lights and MAYBE but not always another non-dimmer for the fan.
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Oct 7, 2019 21:35
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Motronic posted:I guess none of this should surprise me. Think of everyone who swaps a fan onto a light fixture, with or without rated box, which previously had a dimmer. "Weird I thought fans were supposed to be quieter, oh well." or "I have permanent hearing loss, why do my kids complain about the fan being noisy I don't hear anything?"
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Oct 7, 2019 21:48
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Motronic posted:I guess none of this should surprise me. I've seen less and less fan speed controls these days since most fans now come with remotes. Plus, dealing with houses with only two wire and note three, it's an option I recommend to homeowners. When I do new construction (additions, remodels) I pull 14/3 up there even if it's only going to be a standard Wayfair fixture or whatever because tastes change.
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Oct 7, 2019 22:09
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stevewm posted:They must be the ionizing type because they are all ridiculously sensitive. Just extinguishing a candle in the same room as one will set it off. False alarms are so common everyone has learned to just ignore them. Once I opened the toaster oven after someone had used it an hour previously. Even that set the drat kitchen one off. How old are they? They're supposed to be replaced at 10 years, because supposedly they lose sensitivity, but I've noticed the ones in my parents house (all ionizing, all 20+ years old, but  they won't replace them because they "still work") have gotten more and more sensitive. Toaster oven almost always sets them off now (the nearest one is on the far wall of the living room from the kitchen, so a pretty good distance), blowing out a candle sometimes sets them off.And why is there one in the kitchen? Is that code now? Motronic posted:Wait, let me make sure I'm understanding this: people are wiring up ceiling fans on (under rated) dimmers to control fan speed? That's one I haven't run into before, and I've had a LOT of stupid stuff come to me in my fire marshal days. You've never seen that? I've lived in several houses where the former owner had done just that, and a couple of apartments where that was done when they  "renovated" by adding ceiling fans.
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Oct 8, 2019 21:13
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STR posted:You've never seen that? Based on the response to this I have to say I'm really surprised that I haven't. I thought I'd seen all of the common ways one ends up in someones home or business as a fire investigator, but I guess I missed this one. Like I said, I can't remember the last time I've even seen a speed controller for a fan. It's just not something that people do around here for whatever reason.
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Oct 8, 2019 21:47
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