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You all are thinking of the Borg as being top-down designed. I mean, obviously they were by writers, but in their reality they evolved and assimilated and evolution leads to things being good enough but often redundant, vestigial, inefficient, or just generally rear end-backwards. They aren't a supreme perfect rationality, even though that's what they strive and claim to be. They're a space incel shouting DEBATE ME
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Oct 3, 2019 13:24
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The Bloop posted:They aren't a supreme perfect rationality, even though that's what they strive and claim to be. They're a space incel shouting DEBATE ME So much for the tolerant Federation.
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Oct 3, 2019 15:41
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https://twitter.com/dada78641/status/1179462125636509703
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Oct 3, 2019 15:53
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The Bloop posted:You all are thinking of the Borg as being top-down designed. I mean, obviously they were by writers, but in their reality they evolved and assimilated and evolution leads to things being good enough but often redundant, vestigial, inefficient, or just generally rear end-backwards. Pretty much every race they've assimilated walks around doing boop-beep button presses on physical systems, maybe they're literally unable to fathom anything beyond what they've taken in. Your read makes a lot of sense for what we see.
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Oct 3, 2019 19:34
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The Borg would probably be better off just lining up brains in jars, because they'd still accomplish the same goals doing that, so there's something else driving their decision making processes.
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Oct 4, 2019 00:23
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Corporeal bodies are a legacy feature.
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Oct 4, 2019 01:04
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Well I mean, they'd need physical bodies for assimilation, physical maintenance of damaged parts or replacement pieces, stuff like that. But the actual operations side of the ship wouldn't need any kind of interface devices at all. I think there's a time in Seven's introductory episode where someone tells her they need to change course, and she pauses for a second and says "it is done." If you have a hivemind connected to your spaceship, you can just think what you need the ship to do, have it fucktuple checked by however many other drones are on it, and then have the ship do it; but if a weapon is exploded you'd need a few of them to actually go outside and attach a new one.
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Oct 4, 2019 01:16
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Beaming over canisters full of nanoprobes and remotely controlled robot arms get both things done.
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Oct 4, 2019 01:30
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All these suggestions prove is that the Borg need to assimilate more humans.
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Oct 4, 2019 02:00
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It seems like the Borg would be better off just controlling fully robotic drones instead of dispatching half humanoid cyborgs to perform every task where a body is needed, right? So one could imagine they value the flesh more than they let on, which could fansplain a lot of the behavior we see later in the series.
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Oct 4, 2019 03:09
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The Borg are body horror to us, but going full brains in jars and robots and no-buttans is horror to them. Self preservation is strong in any evolved life and theirs is inherently cybernetic. They don't seem good at thinking outside the cube
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Oct 4, 2019 03:51
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Khanstant posted:All these suggestions prove is that the Borg need to assimilate more humans.
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Oct 4, 2019 04:09
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Drink-Mix Man posted:It seems like the Borg would be better off just controlling fully robotic drones instead of dispatching half humanoid cyborgs to perform every task where a body is needed, right?
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Oct 4, 2019 04:10
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Khanstant posted:All these suggestions prove is that the Borg need to assimilate more humans. Your root beer will adapt to service us.
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Oct 4, 2019 04:16
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Drink-Mix Man posted:It seems like the Borg would be better off just controlling fully robotic drones instead of dispatching half humanoid cyborgs to perform every task where a body is needed, right? I always liked the touch that Borg even go around collecting their dead. They aren't pure logic beep boop robots, they really believe in themselves and their cause.
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Oct 4, 2019 04:52
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Senor Tron posted:I always liked the touch that Borg even go around collecting their dead. They aren't pure logic beep boop robots, they really believe in themselves and their cause. I thought collecting the dead was done for conservation of resources, as the various components could be reused or recycled for other purposes.
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Oct 4, 2019 05:23
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:I thought collecting the dead was done for conservation of resources, as the various components could be reused or recycled for other purposes. Or to protect their network But it's never really clear. It can, of course, be multiple things.
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Oct 4, 2019 05:33
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Don't forget that in Q Who the Borg regenerated their ship with the sheer psychic power of thousands of minds acting as one. It's not like they ever had a coherent single design from a writing standpoint.
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Oct 4, 2019 05:57
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The Bloop posted:Or to protect their network Don't give a potential enemy a chance to adapt to you, that's thinkin' with the collective
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Oct 4, 2019 06:08
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Okay, so a horny betazoid is sexually harassing Odo, talking about how he is ideal for her because she likes to manipulate her partners. She then bring up his race and how she wants to gently caress someone of his race. She is inappropriately touching him without consent and he is super uncomfortable and makes an excuse to leave the situation. He then goes to Sisko to report the sexual harassment and Sisko is a real loving rear end in a top hat about it. He basically says "just gently caress her, bro." Odo reiterates how it makes him uncomfortable and he doesn't feel that he should have to confront her about it. Sisko is just like "just deal with it."
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Oct 4, 2019 06:33
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Star Trek TNG theme, with more syncopated synths https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBgG1Csx5Fk
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Oct 4, 2019 07:01
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Khanstant posted:Okay, so a horny betazoid is sexually harassing Odo, talking about how he is ideal for her because she likes to manipulate her partners. She then bring up his race and how she wants to gently caress someone of his race. She is inappropriately touching him without consent and he is super uncomfortable and makes an excuse to leave the situation. He then goes to Sisko to report the sexual harassment and Sisko is a real loving rear end in a top hat about it. He basically says "just gently caress her, bro." Odo reiterates how it makes him uncomfortable and he doesn't feel that he should have to confront her about it. Sisko is just like "just deal with it." He also looks the other way constantly at stuff Quark does that should give him life in prison. Like the episode where he assists the Dax kidnappers in getting onto the station
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Oct 4, 2019 13:45
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Eiba posted:Ending season 6 in my run through Voyager. Unimatrix Zero, Part One. If you fall down this rabbit hole you start getting into “why are there people manning the conn on the bridge when the computer could do that?”, and soon you get to “why don’t they just send remote probes down for away missions?”, and the entire show begins to fall apart.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:08
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MikeJF posted:Don't forget that in Q Who the Borg regenerated their ship with the sheer psychic power of thousands of minds acting as one. It's not like they ever had a coherent single design from a writing standpoint. I... I mean I think we can safely assume those were nanites doing collective work rather than psychic powers
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Oct 4, 2019 15:21
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The Bloop posted:I... I mean I think we can safely assume those were nanites doing collective work rather than psychic powers Retroactively, yeah, but nanites weren't added to the borg concept until First Contact. The as-written intent in Q-Who was collective mental will.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:29
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MikeJF posted:Retroactively, yeah, but nanites weren't added to the borg concept until First Contact. The as-written intent in Q-Who was collective mental will. I'll have to watch it again, but I don't believe that they meant the borg were doing something using magic and not technology. They might not have explained the HOW of the tech, but the implication had to be advanced alien technology, no? I mean, sure, they were collectively willing it to happen, and THEY might not even know how it happens I suppose, but I always read it as Holy poo poo Look At This Impossible Alien Tech Level
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Oct 4, 2019 15:33
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The Bloop posted:I'll have to watch it again, but I don't believe that they meant the borg were doing something using magic and not technology. They might not have explained the HOW of the tech, but the implication had to be advanced alien technology, no? I mean, sure, they were collectively willing it to happen, and THEY might not even know how it happens I suppose, but I always read it as Holy poo poo Look At This Impossible Alien Tech Level Keep in mind that during early TNG, psychic powers were advanced alien powers that are totally within the realm of science as long as we meditate enough or something. One of the more 80s bits of the setting.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:45
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MikeJF posted:Keep in mind that during early TNG, psychic powers were advanced alien powers that are totally within the realm of science as long as we meditate enough or something. One of the more 80s bits of the setting. That dates back to TOS. Vulcans are psychic, and the pilot episode deals with the ship getting zapped, and Mitchell and Dehner getting psychic powers. Roddenberry was s big believer in ESP, and defended this sort of stuff by saying that it was scientifically proven.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:38
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Epicurius posted:That dates back to TOS. Vulcans are psychic, and the pilot episode deals with the ship getting zapped, and Mitchell and Dehner getting psychic powers. What's your Esper rating?
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Oct 4, 2019 16:53
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Trek should have kept ESP. It’s no more unbelievable than FTL or humanoid aliens. B5 was right to pick it up and run with it.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:54
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I like to believe that the reason the Borg have so many consoles that anyone can access isn't for the benefit for the Borg drones, it's for the away teams that Starfleet and any other space faring races send over to them. Like it's part of a test and the away team are lab rats and it helps the Borg determine if they're a race worth assimilating, even if they end up losing a cube in the process. Same reason the drones ignore the away team initially instead of instantly trying to assimilate them.
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Oct 4, 2019 17:16
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J33uk posted:What's your Esper rating? PG-13
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Oct 4, 2019 17:26
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Watched Generations last night for the first time since 1994, it's pretty good. Better than I was expecting based on my hazy memories of seeing it as a kid. Fun seeing Kirk and Picard together, Malcolm McDowell is obviously great. The finale with the enterprise crashing is some good movie poo poo that they couldn't have done on a tv budget. On the other hand, Picard's dream family being some Victorian Christmas Carol poo poo was pretty funny. And Data with emotion chip is very annoying throughout. And gently caress killing off Picard's family in an offscreen fire. skasion posted:Trek should have kept ESP. It’s no more unbelievable than FTL or humanoid aliens. B5 was right to pick it up and run with it. They did keep it. Every Star Trek series from TOS to Discovery features lots of silly psychic power stuff.
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Oct 4, 2019 18:06
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marktheando posted:Watched Generations last night for the first time since 1994, it's pretty good. Better than I was expecting based on my hazy memories of seeing it as a kid. Fun seeing Kirk and Picard together, Malcolm McDowell is obviously great. The finale with the enterprise crashing is some good movie poo poo that they couldn't have done on a tv budget. I think Generations is bad because of what it could've been rather than what we got - it's a serviceable movie that is fun enough to watch with good production values. Now Star Trek Into Darkness is pure poo poo past the intro.
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Oct 4, 2019 18:14
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Thom12255 posted:I think [Star Trek] is bad because of what it could've been rather than what we got This for everything past DS9
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Oct 4, 2019 18:20
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I like Generations simply for the fact that it's the closest we ever got to "TNG but a movie" and as dumb as the plot was, at least the characters still vaguely resembled the ones from the show. It also has the best non-Horner soundtrack of all Trek films https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PgvLwdMrFI&t=4288s
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Oct 4, 2019 18:39
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The one exception to emotional Data being annoying in Generations, the bit where he finds Spot is great 
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Oct 4, 2019 18:51
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eh the first time you see it's pretty great
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Oct 4, 2019 18:55
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The Bloop posted:eh the first time you see This was the funniest thing in the world to me when I was eight And it's still loving hilarious
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Oct 4, 2019 19:01
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The Bloop posted:eh the first time you see Ok two exceptions, that was good too. The rest of the time though, jesus. When he was doing his life forms song or when he was doing his ventriloquism bit with the tricorder, just painful.
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Oct 4, 2019 19:01
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