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evilweasel posted:"durr obummer wanted to please republicans so much" You can make your point without this garbage. No wonder so many people loved it when you left this thread. https://twitter.com/CuteEmergency/status/1179930386450784259 Mahoning fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 15:35
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Fritz Coldcockin posted:
when
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Oct 4, 2019 15:35
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the one thing Hillary Clinton was ever good at was attacking conservatives, at least when she put effort into it.
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evilweasel posted:this was inexcusable and even if it doesn't wind up being an issue, it was a risk that should not have been run I wasn't aware of this, thanks for the info.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:36
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We’ve mythologized our founding and our founders so how can we do better than those heroes obviously? (Easily)
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Oct 4, 2019 15:38
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Groovelord Neato posted:the major problem with originalism is that it isn't. it's just reactionaries wanting to give their opinions a veneer of objectively even if their decisions actually clash with original intent. look at how scalia voted on heller for a stark example of that. My point is that originalism has legs because you’re dealing with a document that is still mostly grounded in 18th century wording and the amendment process has become non-existent because too many people think the courts will work it all out for us.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:38
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Instead of eating babies, eat old people. You just need to slow cook them for longer and your society might improve slightly. Stick to the white meat for added long term benefits.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:39
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Mahoning posted:You can make your point without this garbage. No wonder so many people loved it when you left this thread. if you don't want me to mock dumb posts don't post dumb things! what i posted was just a short summary of "Obama was so obsessed with pleasing Conservatives that even if she had stepped down on his inauguration day in 2009 (when Dems held both houses of Congress AND the White House), he would've nominated some milquetoast center-left justice." that was a bad take. it was stupid in isolation, but inexcuably stupid because we do not need to speculate on what obama would have done with a supreme court vacancy with a democratic senate, because he had two of them. i am sure that people who get upset when their bad takes run into observable reality liked it when i stopped putting observable reality in front of their bad takes. it smarts. obama's supreme court nominations were great. Garland, in retrospect, wound up not working but it was a good attempt to force a Scalia replacement through a Republican senate, and had that worked we would be in an incredibly better place with the Supreme Court and had he gotten a vote he would have gotten confirmed.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:39
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lemonadesweetheart posted:Instead of eating babies, eat old people. You just need to slow cook them for longer and your society might improve slightly. Stick to the white meat for added long term benefits. I’m not eating that diseased, pharmaceutical-infused crap. Grind them up for fertilizer or something.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:41
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lol yeah obama's appointment record is the best in recent history, to the extent that Kagan is a little right of Sotomayor and more of a textualist, it's allowed her to pick up the occasional conservative vote and have stronger hand shaping decisions that otherwise would've gone against them
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Oct 4, 2019 15:41
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https://twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1180130340653981699 is kessler literally getting paid by some right wing dark money to do this, because it would make more sense if he was at this point
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Oct 4, 2019 15:44
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i can't really blame someone for having a bad take on obama judges when he put a moderate up to try to "own" mcconnell for not taking up hearings.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:45
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I'm kinda with this dude. I didn't think it was possible and agree it probably won't happen, but if Trump continues to be a human representation of the China Syndrome for days/weeks/months I think something is going to give. Like when he's supposed to pardon a turkey for Thanksgiving but ends up shooting it in the head and then declares he did it because the turkey was corrupt and working for Biden I think the republicans are going to look at each other and cut bait.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:45
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Fallom posted:Hillary has literally never “spit fire” Well actually...
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Oct 4, 2019 15:45
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eke out posted:https://twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1180130340653981699 How is the timing even relevant or important? Just throwing chaff in the air?
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Oct 4, 2019 15:46
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evilweasel posted:obama's supreme court nominations were great. Garland, in retrospect, wound up not working but it was a good attempt to force a Scalia replacement through a Republican senate, and had that worked we would be in an incredibly better place with the Supreme Court and had he gotten a vote he would have gotten confirmed. apart from that, mrs. lincoln, how was the play
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Oct 4, 2019 15:47
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There Bias Two posted:This pisses me off. The quagmire of poo poo we're in isn't some kind of fluke. It's a direct consequence of decades of GOP efforts and useless centrist pandering. I will quote Watchmen again: "What happened to the American Dream!?" "It came true."
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Oct 4, 2019 15:48
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1glitch0 posted:I'm kinda with this dude. I didn't think it was possible and agree it probably won't happen, but if Trump continues to be a human representation of the China Syndrome for days/weeks/months I think something is going to give. Like when he's supposed to pardon a turkey for Thanksgiving but ends up shooting it in the head and then declares he did it because the turkey was corrupt and working for Biden I think the republicans are going to look at each other and cut bait. The turkey pardon is going to start normally with him reading the prepared pardon text to the turkey and then he goes off script and starts rambling and admits to a couple of other crimes and they have to shut the event down before the turkey is actually pardoned.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:49
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pocket pool posted:How is the timing even relevant or important? Just throwing chaff in the air? well TECHNICALLY one staffer on schiff's committee communicated with the whistleblower to tell him to follow the process and go through the ICIG route instead so this is a LIE when schiff says he didn't talk to him in a way obviously meant to convey "i never met him and no one had any substantive conversations with him about his complaint"
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Oct 4, 2019 15:49
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Has anyone said "Get Schiffty" yet
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Oct 4, 2019 15:49
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1glitch0 posted:I will quote Watchmen again: I'm pretty sure the Elizabeth "Supercougar" Warren story is not true.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:50
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AOC belongs in Starfleet.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:52
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Groovelord Neato posted:i can't really blame someone for having a bad take on obama judges when he put a moderate up to try to "own" mcconnell for not taking up hearings. that's also a bad take. the goal wasn't to "own" mcconnell. the goal was to nominate the person they thought most likely to actually get confirmed: had this worked, you'd have broken the conservative lock on the Supreme Court. there's nobody (acceptable) who had a better chance than Garland to get actually confirmed. obama (correctly, in my view) believed a bird in the hand was better than two in the bush: better to break the conservative lock for as long as RBG could hold out than to ensure as good a judge in the seat as possible (which would, in essence, require putting up the best person possible and hoping Hillary won and Dems took the Senate). Garland put as much pressure on McConnell as possible - but it turns out it wasn't enough and republican senators who probably couldn't have managed to vote against him were willing to support the blockade. the other strategy would have been to put forward someone that would pump up the democratic base. as it turned out, Garland could not get confirmed, and maybe the "energize the base" judge would have gotten Clinton elected. so if we could roll back the clock the correct thing to do would be to change the strategy (of course, there's a whole lot more you'd do first). but Garland wasn't put forward because he was the best possible candidate, ideologically. he was put forward because the supreme court would be miles better with Garland as the swing vote rather than Roberts (and honestly, even if you'd got SuperJustice in the Garland seat, Breyer would be the swing vote and I don't think there's a big difference between Garland and Breyer).
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Oct 4, 2019 15:53
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Nail Rat posted:Has anyone said "Get Schiffty" yet I'm pretty sure Trump has poo poo on the floor.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:54
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evilweasel posted:that's also a bad take. the goal wasn't to "own" mcconnell. the goal was to nominate the person they thought most likely to actually get confirmed: had this worked, you'd have broken the conservative lock on the Supreme Court. there's nobody (acceptable) who had a better chance than Garland to get actually confirmed. obama (correctly, in my view) believed a bird in the hand was better than two in the bush: better to break the conservative lock for as long as RBG could hold out than to ensure as good a judge in the seat as possible (which would, in essence, require putting up the best person possible and hoping Hillary won and Dems took the Senate). Garland put as much pressure on McConnell as possible - but it turns out it wasn't enough and republican senators who probably couldn't have managed to vote against him were willing to support the blockade. obama is very stupid if he thought garland had any chance of getting through. then again he did seem delusional for a lot of his presidency in regards to bipartisanship and assorted bullshit.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:56
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1glitch0 posted:AOC belongs in Starfleet.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:58
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Groovelord Neato posted:obama is very stupid if he thought garland had any chance of getting through. The lasting legacy of his administration is always being one step behind McConnell, and not fully understand what the GOP had become.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:58
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eke out posted:https://twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1180130340653981699 https://twitter.com/PrettyBadLefty/status/1179883573526093825
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Oct 4, 2019 15:59
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evilweasel posted:but Garland wasn't put forward because he was the best possible candidate, ideologically. he was put forward because the supreme court would be miles better with Garland as the swing vote rather than Roberts (and honestly, even if you'd got SuperJustice in the Garland seat, Breyer would be the swing vote and I don't think there's a big difference between Garland and Breyer). garland's also not like a right-wing dude, he's pretty much in the center of what democratic judges look like, mostly because of his record on criminal justice issues. on the vast majority of all cases he would've been a reliable vote with the democratic-appointed majority
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Oct 4, 2019 15:59
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1glitch0 posted:I'm kinda with this dude. I didn't think it was possible and agree it probably won't happen, but if Trump continues to be a human representation of the China Syndrome for days/weeks/months I think something is going to give. For a second I thought you probably meant Manchurian Candidate, but then looked up China Syndrome outside of a Jack Lemmon-based context. Then I realized both are applicable because everything's weird and sad. This has been my morning update, thank you
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Oct 4, 2019 16:00
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eke out posted:https://twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1180130340653981699 he's literally the guy who covered for the bush white house during the cia leak thing so probably
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Oct 4, 2019 16:01
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Groovelord Neato posted:obama is very stupid if he thought garland had any chance of getting through. Had there ever been an instance where a Senate refused to give a confirmation vote for a Supreme Court nominee, excluding any who dropped out for obvious reasons? I don’t think it had ever happened. If Garland actually got a vote and wasn’t confirmed it would have been awful for Senate Republicans to defend. Instead McConnel played gatekeeper and took the bullet for everyone, and it worked because we didn’t hold them accountable in 2016. And that is mostly to do with our broken system, not because Obama guessed wrong.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:02
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Groovelord Neato posted:obama is very stupid if he thought garland had any chance of getting through. It's one hell of a take. Appointing Garland was not meant to be a brilliant tactical move. Obama liked Garland, as he liked the others. It's funny to invent this political gamesmanship out of it when even if we pretend it's true, it didn't even work.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:02
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Groovelord Neato posted:i can't really blame someone for having a bad take on obama judges when he put a moderate up to try to "own" mcconnell for not taking up hearings. Obama literally nominated the person republicans told him to nominate and then McConell went "lol no" and Obama went "welp" and did nothing for months. And Obama is a very smart person. At some point you just have to accept that Obama was happy enough with how things were turning out.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:02
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Just keep digging https://mobile.twitter.com/thehill/status/1180134903016546309 https://mobile.twitter.com/NationalDebt/status/1179852821040119809 Mr Ice Cream Glove fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 16:03
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Groovelord Neato posted:obama is very stupid if he thought garland had any chance of getting through. then again he did seem delusional for a lot of his presidency in regards to bipartisanship and assorted bullshit. Hindsight is 20/20. At the time, Garland looked like he had a decent chance. Again, you can quibble with the strategy (you're not doing that, just calling people dumb) but it was, at the time, a valid choice. It didn't work, but it was only "very stupid" in hindsight. 1glitch0 posted:Obama went "welp" and did nothing for months. What should he have done? Rescind Garland and nominate someone else that wouldn't get a hearing? AhhYes fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 4, 2019 16:04
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Groovelord Neato posted:obama is very stupid if he thought garland had any chance of getting through. then again he did seem delusional for a lot of his presidency in regards to bipartisanship and assorted bullshit. I think it was always less likely to work than likely to work. That said, I think it was still the best move, because the reason it failed is the same reason that the alternative approach would have failed: the public wound up not giving a gently caress. So I don't think that nominating Sotomayor v.2 would have moved the needle for Clinton either (and might have just gotten voted down in a straight party-line vote). Given that, I think he took the best approach he could. Obama didn't really have the ability to fix our constitution and the fact that Republicans controlled the Senate at that point, and that our constitutional norms had completely shattered such that he could get nobody appointed. It's hard to evaluate a decision in the past knowing how it turned out, but I don't see a better option he had. In retrospect, a moral victory was the only thing he could achieve, but at the time trying for an actual, country-changing victory was worth a shot even if it was unlikely to succeed.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:05
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I’m pretty sure if there was nothing else Kessler would give them a Pinocchio or two because a whistle wasn’t literally blown.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:05
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When Obama pulled the plug on OfA, he abandoned any strategy that revolved around base plays. He wasn't going to use his supreme court pick as an electoral tool. That's not to his credit, but it was very much his political MO.
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Oct 4, 2019 16:05
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