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lmao who do you think is educating inner-city poor folk
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Oct 7, 2019 20:33
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socialism would be ever so lovely if only we could eradicate these filthy poverts
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Oct 7, 2019 20:37
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:lmao who do you think is educating inner-city poor folk teachers, and more importantly the diverse community they grow up in and how that affects their worldview, which is significantly better than a rural town of 240. what is your proposed solution for rooting out the xenophobic attitudes endemic in rural small towns? I think I was quite clear that I don’t have any hatred towards these people, but believe that it will be extremely difficult/near impossible to change the attitudes that have been imparted to them.
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Oct 7, 2019 21:04
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DragQueenofAngmar posted:what is your proposed solution for rooting out the xenophobic attitudes endemic in rural small towns? voting booths that vaporize you if you vote republican
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Oct 7, 2019 21:07
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:socialism would be ever so lovely if only we could eradicate these filthy poverts Nobody is saying this you idiot.
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Oct 7, 2019 21:18
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:they tend to think the cities depend on these rural populations and that their taxes or nonexistent farm labor underpin america at large Yeah I ran into one of these once that wanted to gut food stamps. I asked them how they thought they were gonna sell their food if nobody in the city has anybody to buy it and they literally said "I just don't want money for black people"
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Oct 7, 2019 21:33
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DragQueenofAngmar posted:teachers, and more importantly the diverse community they grow up in and how that affects their worldview, which is significantly better than a rural town of 240. what is your proposed solution for rooting out the xenophobic attitudes endemic in rural small towns? I think I was quite clear that I don’t have any hatred towards these people, but believe that it will be extremely difficult/near impossible to change the attitudes that have been imparted to them. i don't really care if your moviebob takes are written with malice or a sense of languid resignation, I am not making a tone argument. if a better society doesn't produce better people it's not gonna fuckin last anyway, and that's a lot of hassle to wind up right back exactly here in a generation; if bumpkins' commitment to racism is so absolute and fundamental to their nature none can be lured or educated away from it then game over I guess you'll notice most of the real hardbitten pieces of poo poo ITT are either cranky boomer fossils who'd be dead before anything in their hometown changed anyway or clean-truck-driving boss hogg landowner types posing as the salt of the earth workingman. When the NYT chud whisperers interview farmers about how they're planning to vote Trump for his second and third term, they never interview the farmhands. H.P. Hovercraft posted:voting booths that vaporize you if you vote republican more straightforward than my plan for fake Trump rallies that are actually located in enormous rat traps A Wizard of Goatse has issued a correction as of 21:46 on Oct 7, 2019 |
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Oct 7, 2019 21:34
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:i don't really care if your moviebob takes are written with malice or a sense of languid resignation. if a better society doesn't produce better people it's not gonna fuckin last anyway, and that's a lot of hassle to wind up right back exactly here in a generation; if bumpkins' commitment to racism is so absolute and fundamental to their nature none can be lured or educated away from it then game over I guess I have spent a lot of time attempting to get my family and friends from growing up to see things differently. I canvas regularly for left/socialist candidates and legislation in the area I’ve been referencing. I do actually want them to change, I absolutely support getting them all the benefits that a real social safety net would bring, and I hope that the experience of a better life would begin to alter their views. what I’m saying is that I have found no way to weaken those beliefs that sticks at all and I’ve spent a lot of time trying to. I really really hope that improving their material circumstances would do what apparently nothing else can, but I don’t think expending any energy trying to get them on board with bernie or being a part of the movement to get to those material improvements is going to produce results 95% of the time.
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Oct 7, 2019 21:45
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:the thing that cracks me up about the kkk is that they also hated catholics yeah, the iowa klan were almost all there to suppress and intimidate catholics because diversity is largely measured there today based on if your Lutheran church is a "normal" or "weird" synod follower (which is normal or weird depends wholly on which synod your church follows). There is a town of fewer than 800 people that I'm aware of that still has 2 Lutheran churches because of that poo poo. I worked with a woman who was not allowed to socialize with Catholics when she was growing up post-WWII. poo poo was wild to me. Humankind is loving GREAT at otherizing everyone we can for whatever reason
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Oct 7, 2019 21:53
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DragQueenofAngmar posted:what is your proposed solution for rooting out the xenophobic attitudes endemic in rural small towns?. Trump's doing a pretty good job of killing off small rural farm towns by playing with tariffs until local farmers have to sell their poo poo to big-ag. In the unfortunate event we get four more years, his base may very kill itself off.
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Oct 7, 2019 21:54
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DragQueenofAngmar posted:I have spent a lot of time attempting to get my family and friends from growing up to see things differently. I canvas regularly for left/socialist candidates and legislation in the area I’ve been referencing. I do actually want them to change, I absolutely support getting them all the benefits that a real social safety net would bring, and I hope that the experience of a better life would begin to alter their views. what I’m saying is that I have found no way to weaken those beliefs that sticks at all and I’ve spent a lot of time trying to. I really really hope that improving their material circumstances would do what apparently nothing else can, but I don’t think expending any energy trying to get them on board with bernie or being a part of the movement to get to those material improvements is going to produce results 95% of the time. IDK I've had reasonable success talking leftism with the children of deeply conservative, strictly religious rural families like my friends growing up, they'd just shut down if I mentioned Democrats or Democratic buzzwords (so I don't see traditional canvassing going over well). A lifetime of stress can produce some real assholes, as can a lifetime of hanging around other assholes, but most rednecks I've known barely have strong positions beyond being mad at Rachel Maddow and suspicious of a government they (rightly, as of now) view as corrupt, let alone really ideologically committed to whatever Mitch McConnell is selling. The really hardbitten guys I've run into are mostly ones who're in on the grift, or temporarily embarassed millionaires who want to be. vvv I have had so many truckers lecture me about how their job is safe from automation lol A Wizard of Goatse has issued a correction as of 22:10 on Oct 7, 2019 |
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Oct 7, 2019 22:00
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TotalLossBrain posted:I especially like these folks bitching about how their taxes are just going to <liberal bigger city in the state> and they should just form their own state. Yes, they believe that their taxes are the thing keeping <liberal bigger city in the state> afloat. It's like how hardcore restate CHUDs like to call California the welfare state when CA subsidises a lot of other states instead. CodfishCartographer posted:I think the logic is the CEO "earned" it by (theoretically) working their way up the corporate ladder, taking risky investments, etc. Too many Americans think they are one good shift or idea away from being the next captain of industry. Yes, this 53 year old balding diabetic will be the next Elon Musk because he owns a franchise sandwich shop or some poo poo. As for jobs, anything that has to do with manual labor seems to get respect from these people. Often referred to as "real" work. Just don't mention the clusterfuck of apprenticeships or the decline of unions to them. Plank Walker posted:whatever job they currently hold, but crucially not their coworkers who are are all lazy and incompetent "I'm the only one who keeps this place going!" *Works at a Jiffy Lube* Funny enough, if you hear an argument against raising the minimum wage, by saying that these workers will be replaced by machines, people get really pissed when you point out that their job can also be replaced by a machine as well. "A machine can't do MY job. I'm too important to the company. I'm the only one who can [describes a skill that can be done more efficiently by a machine or can be trained for in a week, tops]".
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Oct 7, 2019 22:04
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:i don't really care if your moviebob takes are written with malice or a sense of languid resignation, I am not making a tone argument. if a better society doesn't produce better people it's not gonna fuckin last anyway, and that's a lot of hassle to wind up right back exactly here in a generation; if bumpkins' commitment to racism is so absolute and fundamental to their nature none can be lured or educated away from it then game over I guess have you considered that maybe those farmhands of color you talk about might not want to be there either but were forced to by economic forces and that they would probably also rather live in cities where there’s more options than to work in literal pigshit for minimum wage
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Oct 7, 2019 22:05
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:When the NYT chud whisperers interview farmers about how they're planning to vote Trump for his second and third term, they never interview the farmhands. The chud whisperers also have a bad habit of interviewing "salt of the earth" trump voters that are actually delegates or party officials, as well. Sometimes multiple times.
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Oct 7, 2019 22:05
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Kind of like whenever I see a paper talk about raising the minimum wage I always see some random small business owner give a full speech but never once will they ever ask someone who's wages would go up how awesome it would be.
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Oct 7, 2019 22:11
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Agean90 posted:Kind of like whenever I see a paper talk about raising the minimum wage I always see some random small business owner give a full speech but never once will the ever ask someone who's wages would go up how awesome it would be. The NPR special.
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Oct 7, 2019 22:12
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Just-In-Timeberlake posted:so you’re saying Northern Exposure was a documentary As someone who grew up in an isolated fishing community in Alaska, it was the most accurate depiction of our culture and lifestyle I have ever seen to this day. They still pay off healthcare provider tuition (how much depends on the job) on condition of working in Alaska for two years. Eat This Glob posted:I've never seen it It's a great show and mostly about how we're weird as gently caress, filmed in Washington state though.
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Oct 7, 2019 22:32
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:IDK I've had reasonable success talking leftism with the children of deeply conservative, strictly religious rural families like my friends growing up, they'd just shut down if I mentioned Democrats or Democratic buzzwords (so I don't see traditional canvassing going over well). A lifetime of stress can produce some real assholes, as can a lifetime of hanging around other assholes, but most rednecks I've known barely have strong positions beyond being mad at Rachel Maddow and suspicious of a government they (rightly, as of now) view as corrupt, let alone really ideologically committed to whatever Mitch McConnell is selling. The really hardbitten guys I've run into are mostly ones who're in on the grift, or temporarily embarassed millionaires who want to be. I’m glad you’ve had better success. I can make some headway by staying away from trigger words as you said, but in most of the conversations Ive had I eventually hit a wall that is usually based on cultural issues, or a belief that giving people anything for free is morally wrong, which I don’t know you get past. holding that belief while really needing help is a pretty strong conviction I think.
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Oct 7, 2019 22:36
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Eat This Glob posted:yeah, the iowa klan were almost all there to suppress and intimidate catholics because diversity is largely measured there today based on if your Lutheran church is a "normal" or "weird" synod follower (which is normal or weird depends wholly on which synod your church follows). There is a town of fewer than 800 people that I'm aware of that still has 2 Lutheran churches because of that poo poo. i've heard that's why all the supreme court is catholics and jews, because back in the day they both got discriminated against and so a few law firms became majority catholic or jewish because of it which went on to become prestigious
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Oct 7, 2019 22:39
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:they tend to think the cities depend on these rural populations and that their taxes or nonexistent farm labor underpin america at large In other words, they still think it's 60 years ago.
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Oct 7, 2019 22:49
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Forceholy posted:Too many Americans think they are one good shift or idea away from being the next captain of industry. Yes, this 53 year old balding diabetic will be the next Elon Musk because he owns a franchise sandwich shop or some poo poo. I disagree: I think they realize that not everybody can be on top. I think they're mainly scared of being on the bottom - of being in a position where "inferior" people can look down on them.
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Oct 7, 2019 22:53
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I’m reading about public pools and how cities voted to sell or demolish them rather than admit black people. this county has always been hosed
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Oct 7, 2019 23:22
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Shipon posted:have you considered that maybe those farmhands of color you talk about might not want to be there either but were forced to by economic forces and that they would probably also rather live in cities where there’s more options than to work in literal pigshit for minimum wage idk what this has to do with the price of tea in China but I'll allow I had not considered that the black and brown man's soul innately yearns for highrises lmao City life isn't really aspirational viewed from the country, and migrating there is historically a desperation move; there is no group of people on Earth who'd rather lose their homes than keep them and just work a less lovely job, given the opportunity, and you shouldn't expect anyone to thank you for evicting them. Pththya-lyi posted:I disagree: I think they realize that not everybody can be on top. I think they're mainly scared of being on the bottom - of being in a position where "inferior" people can look down on them. a truly incredible number of people really are convinced that they are secretly a lone hardworking visionary among the mindless, shiftless human herd; only a genius born to greatness such as they could have thought of underwear that has a little fan in it to keep your junk cool same poo poo with already rich people is why they expect anyone to read those endless whiny columns about how hard some investment banker works - why, I've had to put in a 60 hour week time to time! - and not immediately want to murder the author A Wizard of Goatse has issued a correction as of 23:36 on Oct 7, 2019 |
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Oct 7, 2019 23:27
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:only a genius born to greatness such as they could have thought of underwear that has a little fan in it to keep your junk cool
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Oct 7, 2019 23:41
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:same poo poo with already rich people is why they expect anyone to read those endless whiny columns about how hard some investment banker works - why, I've had to put in a 60 hour week time to time! - and not immediately want to murder the author  ...that included time spent commuting, eating meals, personal appointments, and exercising. I've noticed an almost perfect relation between a person who declares that they "work hard" and someone who has a job generating spreadsheets and powerpoints and sitting in meetings in an air-conditioned office building.
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Oct 7, 2019 23:42
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LMAO as if the real benefit of my fancy and murderously expensive graduate degree isn't being lazy and shitpost all day for some decent money
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Oct 7, 2019 23:45
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nikosoft posted:I didn't even know how to cross a street as a pedestrian (when the light is green!) or use a debit card until I went to college in the "big city" (a town with a population of 80k). So you can probably also imagine the absolute right-wing garbage my brain was stuffed with. It took a couple of years to get most of it out; observing the fall-out from 9/11 and the Iraq War from outside of the purview of my parents certainly helped. Being active on message boards like this no poo poo helped too, which is wild. It still took another decade to be able to look back on my childhood and realize the things that I assumed were perfectly normal, such as the doomsday prepping and the complete, yet contradictory fetishization of the police and militias (my cop uncle was gathering guns and training for secession in the 80s), are actually bugfuck insane crazy. I made it out, but my brother didn't, and everyday I think about him and wonder how you're supposed to escape all of this if it's the only thing you've ever known. What town did you grow up in and what "big city" did you move to, if you don't mind me asking? CodfishCartographer posted:I think a lot of the “X job makes too much money!” thing is due to a general lack of respect for jobs without much physical labor. Maybe but they also seem to really hate professional athletes (and football players in particular) for making big money and those guys get the living Christ beat out of them. They also routinely poo poo on fast food workers, servers, sanitation workers, landscapers, house cleaners and dudes who do road work or roofing in the middle of the summer and all of that poo poo is physically taxing as hell so it's not just that. The more I consider it, re-reading what I just wrote and assuming you are correct, it seems to come down to making exceptions for hating on hard working labor intensive jobs that are usually done by minorities. ikanreed posted:The thing is, they do understand it, because they'll make the same defense for CEOs getting paid so much. Also this. The same people I hear lamenting how much football players make or how little warehouse workers earn always think that the CEO's "earned it" through hard work.
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Oct 7, 2019 23:45
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BiggerBoat posted:The same people I hear lamenting how much football players make or how little warehouse workers earn always think that the CEO's "earned it" through hard work. it's cognitive dissonance kicking in. otherwise they might have to engage with that fact that they will never be CEOs and that those rich assholes likely did nothing to earn their station, which means they've voluntarily eaten poo poo their whole life for no reason, and that is a tough row to hoe
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Oct 8, 2019 01:31
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It's all racism at its core. Humans are pretty much xenophobic by default, so if you grow up in a small town or are socially isolated it's really easy to become racist if there are a bunch of racists in your social group and no social peers to show you otherwise (which is really common in small towns and some religious communities, especially with home schooling) Never suffer a fascist to be unpunched, or a racist relative to be unflamed on facebook or unyelled at during thanksgiving dinner
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Oct 8, 2019 01:48
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America pitting different races/ethnic groups against each other as a prophylactic measure against the development of class consciousness is baked into the loving primordial DNA of this country. You all just realizing it now? People believing all kinds of bullshit dissonances and doublethink is just as bad in urban areas as rural areas. Just look at how bad homelessness is in urban areas that have tons of vacant homes. "Better education funding in our lovely rural county will eventually lead to better educated young workers who will attract better jobs to our area" is way more complicated than "People are homeless. Give them some places to live." Yet people still gently caress up that second one. Hey maybe everyone, including me, including you, are just dumb??
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Oct 8, 2019 02:50
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H.P. Hovercraft posted:i've heard that's why all the supreme court is catholics and jews, because back in the day they both got discriminated against and so a few law firms became majority catholic or jewish because of it which went on to become prestigious it’s like right wing dipshits screaming Hollywood is full of jews and every show is a gay feminist agenda these days. like no poo poo, jews were shoved out of Broadway because it was ‘respectable’ entertainment and had to go to other poo poo while for the past 20 years at least the general input towards young men is ‘get a trade or stem job because arts and humanities are for liberal feminists’ the gently caress did you think was going to happen after telling an entire generation of right leaning young men to avoid the arts?
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Oct 8, 2019 02:55
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:America pitting different races/ethnic groups against each other as a prophylactic measure against the development of class consciousness is baked into the loving primordial DNA of this country. You all just realizing it now? yes this country is hugely hosed up but in those cities there are significant numbers of people who want to house the homeless, but the wealthy use that property to generate wealth so obviously, that’s just unacceptable! it’s a class issue with all the other issues that entails. whereas in the small town in the article that started the discussion, people who are very poor and under-served, want to remain that way. due to propaganda, but propaganda it is extremely difficult to undo I live in rural louisiana. it’s very like the town described
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Oct 8, 2019 03:19
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imo the key is in getting people to realize they're being duped. racism isn't genetic. i grew up in a small rural town and learned pretty early on that racism was bad, and not just the overt kind
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Oct 8, 2019 03:53
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Serf posted:imo the key is in getting people to realize they're being duped. racism isn't genetic. i grew up in a small rural town and learned pretty early on that racism was bad, and not just the overt kind i don't understand how any of these people are being duped though. everything seems completely honest. "your life sucks, your life getting better would be bad, but i'll make other people's lives suck even more than yours, vote for me" appears to be the only winning electoral strategy.
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Oct 8, 2019 04:48
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Feldegast42 posted:The chud whisperers also have a bad habit of interviewing "salt of the earth" trump voters that are actually delegates or party officials, as well. Sometimes multiple times. Yeah, liberals have made it pretty clear that they absolutely only care about the elites, no matter how petty. We've seen plenty of takes how they genuinely don't realise that nonwhite people make up a significant portion of the population in rural areas and red states, and don't understand voter suppression and how hopeless red state Democrats don't inspire anyone. It's like the obsession with nonexistent 'Moderate Republicans', because the Democrats desperately want to be the party of the elite and consider minorities their subjects by right.
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Oct 8, 2019 06:19
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FMguru posted:WSJ once did a breakdown showing that CEOs work 55-hour weeks I gotta brush the sweat from my brow just thinking about how hard meetings are.
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Oct 8, 2019 06:51
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Yeah, liberals have made it pretty clear that they absolutely only care about the elites, no matter how petty. We've seen plenty of takes how they genuinely don't realise that nonwhite people make up a significant portion of the population in rural areas and red states, and don't understand voter suppression and how hopeless red state Democrats don't inspire anyone. you're vastly overestimating the non-white population of the rural regions. yes, there are farms that hire hispanic immigrants and of course in the south there a fair number of black people in small towns, but overall the rural population overwhelmingly skews white compared to the cities racism might be innate to the human experience in the form of not knowing how to handle someone who doesn't look like you or believe the same things you do, but that's why it's more important that people live in places with a larger number of people so they have more opportunity to interact with different people this whole thing where the coastal left is romanticizing the rural american experience as a reflexive response against liberals is itself misguided, it really is a regressive place that is actively hostile to one's humanity and sense of empathy
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Oct 8, 2019 10:06
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It's as good as those tech CEO profiles where they claim to regularly live off of a 600ish calorie diet a day.
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Oct 8, 2019 10:07
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:It's as good as those tech CEO profiles where they claim to regularly live off of a 600ish calorie diet a day. Wasn't @jack basically starving himself
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Oct 8, 2019 10:11
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Wasn't @jack basically starving himself and microdosing every drug under the sun
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Oct 8, 2019 10:14
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