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Bundy posted:Am I missing some skeletons that should rule Thornberg out of the running for leader? She too young, not an MP and Swedish.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:28
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ThomasPaine posted:
While it’s dropping, > 60% of the uk are still home owners. For them, each year the value of that ownership goes up, and the years they have to work before retirement go down. This objective change in their economic circumstances gradually comes to align their class interests more with those who have than those who do. For example, say a successful Brexit, as some economists predict, drops wages by 20/30%. Is that good or bad? For enough people to maybe win an election, that will be good; the fixed amount of money they have will go further. In particular they will be able to buy services produced at the kind of wage levels goods currently are. This is of course not sustainable, but in the long run we are all dead. And for the people we are talking about, that run is not as long as it might be.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:29
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Doccykins posted:
Nice bro nice
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Oct 11, 2019 13:29
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Comrade Fakename posted:I don’t know how you interpreted that from what I wrote. To be clear, yes it is incredibly far from certain that Labour will win the election. My point is that considering the state the Tories are in, Labour should be about to cruise to an easy landslide. The fact that this is not true is concerning. it was more about how people consistently underestimate the Tory voting base, so you get people saying things like "this election is Labour's to lose" and "we would have won if it weren't for Corbyn / courting Leave voters / Ed going too left-wing" etc etc The Jez oversaw a massively successful resurgence in the Labour vote, some of the biggest gains in living memory, and on cue the goalposts moved from "unelectable Corbyn" to "anyone could have had this success, and more". The fact is the Tories aren't electorally helpless and only escaping annihilation thanks to a bumbling Labour party, as much as we'd like to believe "ok NOW people will realise and stop voting for them". It's a narrative that's pushed by people on all sides who want to stifle the left-wing project and reset politics to the London Olympics times baka kaba fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Oct 11, 2019 |
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Oct 11, 2019 13:30
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Bundy posted:Am I missing some skeletons that should rule Thornberg out of the running for leader? If you mean Emily Thornberry expect all the poo poo to come out about her being A Rich Not Socialist Why Isnt She Using Her Millions To Pay Tax / Build Schools / House Refugees (even more than it does now)
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Oct 11, 2019 13:30
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The fact that 'small-c conservatism' is still a thing is a testament to how much Thatcherism poisoned English political discourse smdh If you asked someone to define conservatism forty years ago, they'd probably look towards Macmillan or Heath as arbiters of good conservative values, not some batshit ancap like Thatcher Likewise, if small-c conservatives genuinely think Cameron was in any way good at running the country, and all we need is another pro-EU Thatcherite...well folks, hope really is a lie.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:31
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Doccykins posted:If you mean Emily Thornberry expect all the poo poo to come out about her being A Rich Not Socialist Why Isnt She Using Her Millions To Pay Tax (even more than they do now) Oh my god, old man yells at cloud moment. Yes I mean Thornberry  And ah, I see.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:31
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Leaving the Labour Party because you don't like the leader is on the same level as Brexit. How the gently caress are you going to affect change if you're not even a member of the thing you want to change?!
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Oct 11, 2019 13:33
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Bundy posted:Am I missing some skeletons that should rule Thornberg out of the running for leader? Not an MP, Swedish, too young.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:33
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feedmegin posted:Not necessarily, the Tories know their base. Working people's benefits got austered, meanwhile state pensions got the triple lock. And in 2017 they came up with the dementia tax. People expecting a 2017-style surge are absolutely deluding themselves - the Tories did every single thing they could to throw that election, and they won't make the same mistakes again. I'm not saying Labour can't win, but the blase expectation that 15 points will fall out of the arse of the OFCOM rules is more dangerous to their prospects than any other factor.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:40
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Dead Goon posted:Leaving the Labour Party because you don't like the leader is on the same level as Brexit. How the gently caress are you going to affect change if you're not even a member of the thing you want to change?! Let's have a chippy tea instead.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:40
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Doccykins posted:If you mean Emily Thornberry expect all the poo poo to come out about her being A Rich Not Socialist Why Isnt She Using Her Millions To Pay Tax / Build Schools / House Refugees (even more than it does now) She also had the most stupid "scandal" leading a resignation in the history of British politics. She tweeted this:  and the Mail/Sun et al responded with EVERY NORMAL PERSON HAS FLAGS COVERING THEIR HOUSE YOU ELITIST METROPOLITAN SNOB, "forcing" Miliband to get her to step down
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Oct 11, 2019 13:43
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marktheando posted:Not an MP, Swedish, too young. These are all reasons she should be pm
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Oct 11, 2019 13:46
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Niric posted:She also had the most stupid "scandal" leading a resignation in the history of British politics. I loved it when all of the outraged centrist journalists went and knocked on the guy's door and he was, surprise surprise, exactly the kind of person you would expect to cover their house in the st george's cross
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Oct 11, 2019 13:48
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Niric posted:She also had the most stupid "scandal" leading a resignation in the history of British politics. And IIRC the Sun tracked down the Normal White Van Driver With England Flags On His House and, guess what, his 'manifesto' was pure strain send 'em back/stop the scroungers/make niqabs illegal/bring back the death penalty stuff. Just like Brown and the 'bigoted woman' who ended up as a UKIP canvasser
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Oct 11, 2019 13:49
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I think it's pretty much universal that if you have a country's flag hanging out your window, nevermind loving 3 of them, and it's not World Cup time, there's something wrong with you.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:51
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Pochoclo posted:I think it's pretty much universal that if you have a country's flag hanging out your window, nevermind loving 3 of them, and it's not World Cup time, there's something wrong with you. boy you would not like certain parts of the US (you're not wrong)
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Oct 11, 2019 13:52
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The other thing the Tories have on their side is a kind of just-world psychology - obviously they scapegoat, pander to prejudices, sell this aspirational idea that everyone has opportunities if they work hard enough, and people with wealth and privilege are there because they deserve it, which appeals to a lot of people But as well, there's a kind of intertia in that they've been in power for a decade, telling these stories, and people have believed and voted for them. Hell even if you didn't vote for them, there's something comforting in trusting the government means well and what they say is true, and things will get better, the pain was all worth it etc. Add to that the way the media barely questions any of it with any real analysis, and that thinking just gets embedded in society, people just internalise it - and people don't like being contradicted so when you get parties coming along saying nope, wrong, this is all bs and the last 10 years were a sham, you never really heard otherwise, it was all for nothing and actually made things worse... even with a positive vision for the future (even just putting the brakes on austerity would be a plus) people will get defensive about the idea that any of this is true or necessary. It's easier to believe in that just world and keep voting for the party that says everything is good and getting better, stay the course, don't risk it now etc BalloonFish posted:And IIRC the Sun tracked down the Normal White Van Driver With England Flags On His House and, guess what, his 'manifesto' was pure strain send 'em back/stop the scroungers/make niqabs illegal/bring back the death penalty stuff. excuse me it was called the Danifesto
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Oct 11, 2019 13:54
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Julio Cruz posted:boy you would not like certain parts of the US 
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Oct 11, 2019 13:55
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Pochoclo posted:I think it's pretty much universal that if you have a country's flag hanging out your window, nevermind loving 3 of them, and it's not World Cup time, there's something wrong with you. Only if you're in your own country. I always found it pretty cool when the international students used to hang their flags out the window. Something about a huge Jamaican flag hanging out of a window on the central shopping street of st loving andrews really tickled me (and I can only imagine how irritating the local posh lads found it) E: I regret that most Chinese students are way more quiet and insular because I can only dream of seeing the red flag flying from half the flats in every student hall yeah yeah I know China isn't communist anymore ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 13:58 on Oct 11, 2019 |
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Oct 11, 2019 13:55
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I've had a look on TheyWorkForYou at both Laura Pidcock and Rebecca Long-Baily and while they both seem very correct in their voting, there is also a lot of "hasn't voted" and "not enough information" too. Can someone point me to some more information as to why this thread seems to be absolutely gaga at one of them replacing Corbyn?
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Oct 11, 2019 13:58
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BalloonFish posted:And IIRC the Sun tracked down the Normal White Van Driver With England Flags On His House and, guess what, his 'manifesto' was pure strain send 'em back/stop the scroungers/make niqabs illegal/bring back the death penalty stuff. But even outside of all that, all she did was post a picture of a house. No commentary, nothing to suggest she was sneering at it, and it was one of dozens she’d posted that very same day while out canvassing. When she was throws out of the cabinet on the back of the completely manufactured scandal I was infuriated and it’s pretty much the point where I totally gave up on Ed Milliband.
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Oct 11, 2019 13:59
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namesake posted:There's no parliamentary road to socialism, so long as enough people don't quit activism entirely then that's not the end of the world. Right but I'm addressing someone who has Labour membership right now because Corbyn. I'm not addressing people who believe what you believe because obviously they wouldn't be Labour members.
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Oct 11, 2019 14:01
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Noxville posted:But even outside of all that, all she did was post a picture of a house. No commentary, nothing to suggest she was sneering at it, and it was one of dozens she’d posted that very same day while out canvassing. "St. Mary's Church, Islington" "Lefty Thornberry SNEERS at Christianity and the Church of ENGLAND, wants us all to convert to Lesbian Islam!" "Tough decisions, who could be right?" 
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Oct 11, 2019 14:03
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Dead Goon posted:I've had a look on TheyWorkForYou at both Laura Pidcock and Rebecca Long-Baily and while they both seem very correct in their voting, there is also a lot of "hasn't voted" and "not enough information" too. RLB has had briefs in shadow cabinet p much exclusively under McDonnell and is very much on the “take no poo poo from tories” bandwagon, from everything that’s been said about her the biggest thing is that she’s effectively big John’s torchbearer. Pidcock I don’t have as much info on, but from everything I’ve seen her appear at, she’s had really solid left wing views.
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Oct 11, 2019 14:06
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Dead Goon posted:I've had a look on TheyWorkForYou at both Laura Pidcock and Rebecca Long-Baily and while they both seem very correct in their voting, there is also a lot of "hasn't voted" and "not enough information" too. Pidcock's been on my radar since she stepped into Parliament  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUk8E2U4pgc She's really strong on worker's rights, trade unions and welfare. She caught a ton of flack from right-wing media for saying she wouldn't be friends with a Tory. Despite being a new MP in 2017 she was good enough to make a shadow minister for business and energy. The reason her voting record looks sparse is she was off on maternity leave for about 9 months so she naturally missed a ton of votes. Wouldn't be surprised if that's the reason for RLB as well.
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Oct 11, 2019 14:09
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It looks like the person arrested for the stabbing is white, so we'll see if the "potential terrorism threat" gets downgraded to "a lone wolf with mental problems" in a bit.  Unless ofc he is a light shade of non-white, in which case it's going to be a terrorist 100%.
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Oct 11, 2019 14:09
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ThomasPaine posted:I've talked about this itt before but it's genuinely interesting (and depressing) to me that a lot of olds are voting for a Tory party that hasn't actually existed for decades, and actively making their lives worse as a result. It's literally that they have a pattern in their head that says "Tories sensible money party, Labour unelectable radicals," and when you try to challenge it with facts, those facts don't fit the pattern, and their thoughts drift back via 'fake news' or 'that can't be right' straight into the comfortable pattern. The only way to get them out of it is to make the established pattern uncomfortable for them in a way that they can't escape, like if a friend or relative suffers under universal credit, or they have a grandkid with a disability that they can't be traumatised into masking, or if there are real consequences to them personally, like losing their heating allowance. Then they have to challenge it. I'm not saying this is the only factor obviously, but it is a huge factor in the way people's thoughts tend to flow back to comfortable patterns. As someone in my forties, it's interesting because I'm starting to notice myself falling for it whenever my nephews start telling me about new, easier ways of doing things on computers, and if I didn't know that it was my neuroplasticity declining I'd think I was mad at them. Gammon age and up are riddled with it. You have to consciously fight it but I think the only reason people like Sanders & Corbyn seem immune to typical old-white-man brand brainspiders is because they've always had a more altruistic pattern - Sanders was arrested protesting segregation and Corbyn apartheid. Their brains may be fixed, but they're fixed in a good pattern, which has the bonus effect of making them largely incorruptible. Most of the other cunts in power gave up and accepted a combination of the compromise and comfort bribery of capitalism a long time ago combined with centrist and lobbyist pressure. That became their pattern. I have a whole other theory relating to this about the 'prepare for brexit' ads backfiring and helping labour because of all of this, but this post is already too long and I need to go walk the boy.  ThomasPaine posted:I really do wonder who the hell is still voting for them apart from senile olds and landlords. They're nakedly incompetent, corrupt sociopaths. I posted ages ago asking about why people came to the left politically, and a lot of the answers tend to be either "My parents were radicals" (good pattern established early and never challenged), or "I was happy enough until capitalism hosed me / my friend / my family over" (bad pattern broken and turned to good). Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 14:16 on Oct 11, 2019 |
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Oct 11, 2019 14:11
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Noxville posted:But even outside of all that, all she did was post a picture of a house. No commentary, nothing to suggest she was sneering at it, and it was one of dozens she’d posted that very same day while out canvassing. It was disappointing that red Ed was such a weak leader cos the people who tried to make out the photo was some sort of scandal were 100% telling on themselves.
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Oct 11, 2019 14:15
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he senses you're trying to feed him roast beef monster munch
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Oct 11, 2019 14:16
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i saw the new thread title did boris officially request an extension yet? im leaving the country for a bit and want to know if is hsould bother comign back
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Oct 11, 2019 14:16
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Rarity posted:She caught a ton of flack from right-wing media for saying she wouldn't be friends with a Tory. The exact moment I decided she'd be my PM.
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Oct 11, 2019 14:20
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So what’s the deal on these “tunnel” EU negotiations? Johnson’s going to pull this off, isn’t he?
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Oct 11, 2019 14:24
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Rarity posted:Pidcock's been on my radar since she stepped into Parliament I've nothing against Laura Pidcock or anything, but at one point the qualification for shadow minister "just show up please oh god John and Diane and I are so lonely in this big ol' committee room," so I wouldn't make too much of this
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Oct 11, 2019 14:26
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Brony Car posted:So what’s the deal on these “tunnel” EU negotiations? no. it has to pass parliament and won't
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Oct 11, 2019 14:28
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https://twitter.com/MediocreDave/status/1182404265811349518?s=20 XR just leaving thank you cards for the polis. Great aims, love the enthusiasm, absolutely loving hopeless in other regards though. Bootlicking is not good protesting.
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Oct 11, 2019 14:29
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ThomasPaine posted:
Don’t worry, China is super nationalist now so you’ll probably get your wish!
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Oct 11, 2019 14:29
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Jose posted:he senses you're trying to feed him roast beef monster munch Looks more like Pickled Onion
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Oct 11, 2019 14:30
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Please do not feed the dog Monster Munch. Pet the hell out of him though.
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Oct 11, 2019 14:31
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sebzilla posted:Looks more like Pickled Onion Also it looks tiny because of weird perspective, I was not somehow able to locate mini Monster Munch.
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Oct 11, 2019 14:33
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