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Can't help but think that Al-Saqr is on to something with his point that as long as fascists are in power in the middle east, both Kurds and Arabs are hosed.
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Oct 12, 2019 00:16
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Sinteres posted:Erik Prince's plan to turn US military presence around the world over to mercenaries except making the actual military the mercenaries: You can tell that he hasn't devoted a single millisecond of thought to the question of, 'but should we put american lives in harms way for this?'
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Oct 12, 2019 00:18
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:200m is like deadly loving close. who's actually going to support Turkey if we somehow god forbid get in a shooting war though Russia, Iran, and Western Europe are all mad about this, China doesn't give a gently caress it's not ww3, it's just horrible
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Oct 12, 2019 00:24
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https://twitter.com/devindwyer/status/1182789831874826242 Seems like the rumors of clashes between the regime and SDF in the south were false. Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Oct 12, 2019 |
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Oct 12, 2019 00:45
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GreyjoyBastard posted:who's actually going to support Turkey if we somehow god forbid get in a shooting war though Letting turkey do as they please and ruining international opinipm of themselves is helpful to justify a later war
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Oct 12, 2019 01:00
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I honestly do not understand Turkeys motivation for this action apart from blind hatred of Kurds, which is an absurdly bad reason to start a war.
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Oct 12, 2019 01:27
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It's being framed as a war on kurdish terror.
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Oct 12, 2019 01:33
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GreyjoyBastard posted:who's actually going to support Turkey if we somehow god forbid get in a shooting war though Azerbaijan. Maybe.
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Oct 12, 2019 01:35
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Flayer posted:I honestly do not understand Turkeys motivation for this action apart from blind hatred of Kurds, which is an absurdly bad reason to start a war. they want to prevent a Kurdish statelet from forming on their border and they want to return Syrian refugees to Syria under their protection and they want a slice of the syrian pie along with russia and Iran. also, them having extra territorial expanse means they're geopolitical weight in the middle east is enhanced greatly.
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Oct 12, 2019 01:35
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Letting turkey do as they please and ruining international opinipm of themselves is helpful to justify a later war lol if you think all this ugly brutality and stupidity is a grand game of chess.
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Oct 12, 2019 01:36
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mila kunis posted:It's being framed as a war on kurdish terror. ...within Turkey and for Turks outside of it. Anyone else that actually believes it, tho, is as dumb as bricks.
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Oct 12, 2019 01:55
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Grape posted:lol if you think all this ugly brutality and stupidity is a grand game of chess. Is this a copy paste from 2014
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Oct 12, 2019 02:10
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Flayer posted:I honestly do not understand Turkeys motivation for this action apart from blind hatred of Kurds, which is an absurdly bad reason to start a war. Apparently the Middle East is too enticing a beehive for people to NOT want to stick their dicks into it at every opportunity.
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Oct 12, 2019 02:14
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https://twitter.com/PaulSzoldra/status/1182797475460997120?s=19 DOD has issued a public warning to Turkey about bombing our troops.
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Oct 12, 2019 02:17
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BattleMaster posted:Apparently the Middle East is too enticing a beehive for people to NOT want to stick their dicks into it at every opportunity. That much has been true since the Bronze Age at least.
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Oct 12, 2019 02:23
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Gobbeldygook posted:https://twitter.com/PaulSzoldra/status/1182797475460997120?s=19 This statement has no muscle.
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Oct 12, 2019 02:34
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Is this a copy paste from 2014 What exactly has transpired since 2014 to make you think anything OTHER than our world being a series of stupid ugly brutes keystone cops like colliding into one another while crushing nations and peoples in stupid ugly brutal fashion. Like literally the opposite should have happened. The current hot topic of the thread is all happening because of faulty sociopathic synapses in a large manchild's thuggish brain firing off. While Ottoman Snively Whiplash rushes off to tame the mountain men who made his elections look bad. In the lands of a bloodthirsty optometrist overcompensating for not fitting his father's throne by blowing half his nation's brains out. Meanwhile the prime minister of the UK is threatening to jump off a tall building in the name of banishing pierogis and curry. The gently caress world are you from.
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Oct 12, 2019 02:49
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https://twitter.com/cd_hooks/status/1182816761185492995
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Oct 12, 2019 02:50
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Grape posted:What exactly has transpired since 2014 to make you think anything OTHER than our world being a series of stupid ugly brutes keystone cops like colliding into one another while crushing nations and peoples in stupid ugly brutal fashion. Like literally the opposite should have happened. The fact that you think this is some mindless attack with 0 forethought is loving hilarious. Turkey casually said they would attempt to annex Mosul a year ago. Aswell as for years befre that. This is not some madman huffing his own farts in a basement. Erdogan leads an army that is currently enacting occupation with no intention of returning it after. Iraq is weak and Syria is weaker. Both are ripe for northern aggression. Guess what? Its happening, and it was planned to happen nearly a year before re-election because America is very busy domestically. Impeachment, an election, ukrainegate. Upon research i found this article: https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/10/23/turkeys-religious-nationalists-want-ottoman-borders-iraq-erdogan/ 
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Oct 12, 2019 03:04
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:The fact that you think this is some mindless attack with 0 forethought is loving hilarious. Turkey casually said they would attempt to annex Mosul a year ago. Aswell as for years befre that. This is not some madman huffing his own farts in a basement. Erdogan leads an army that is currently enacting occupation with no intention of returning it after. Iraq is weak and Syria is weaker. Both are ripe for northern aggression. Also North Cyprus, and declaring war on twitter and on all sorts of other things. In fact you'd pretty much have to not have ever followed Erdogan news to think he's a chess-master of some kind, and not a bloviating red faced mustache given flesh. Sometimes the ranting winds up somewhere real, sometimes it doesn't. I have way more to worry about from Turkish military action on stuff Erdogan likes to yell at clouds about than most people in this thread, so don't tell me I don't take him seriously. In the real world an unpredictable aggressive small penis haver who sometimes actually blows up is in fact quite terrifying.
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Oct 12, 2019 03:17
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He created a new position for himself to lead the countey for life. And his legagy will be cemented by restoring ottoman rule to aleppo and mosul and eradicating the kurds. He is a genius in the way he is setting a precented for future annexation. What is Erdogans bar for more annexation?? nato What better way to depose nato/art 5 as an organization than to arty your NATO allies.
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Oct 12, 2019 03:57
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Turkey did literally nothing besides shut down the border and watch as ISIS assaulted Kobani a few years back, right? Other than buy oil from ISIS.
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Oct 12, 2019 04:09
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Flayer posted:I honestly do not understand Turkeys motivation for this action apart from blind hatred of Kurds, which is an absurdly bad reason to start a war. Aside from what other people said, Erdogan whipped up Kurd hatred for political reasons and found that it worked really well for him. As long as he's seen as the defender of the Turkish nation against various outsiders plotting with the Kurds to take Turkey down, a lot of secular-leaning nationalists forget he's the Islamist they didn't trust in previous elections.
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Oct 12, 2019 04:51
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pro starcraft loser posted:Turkey did literally nothing besides shut down the border and watch as ISIS assaulted Kobani a few years back, right? And also refused to close their border to ISIS and allowed fighters and weapons tonflow freely through their territory for the organization.
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Oct 12, 2019 04:52
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Flayer posted:I honestly do not understand Turkeys motivation for this action apart from blind hatred of Kurds, which is an absurdly bad reason to start a war. One more periphery reason on the theme of internal popularity that I think the thread is fluffing over, the Turkish government is using this as an excuse to imprison even more citizens. The ridiculous framing of the invasion is one massive honey-pot to lure out and entrap anyone still harboring open dissent against Erdogan. Just one final showing that it's his way or the highway. https://twitter.com/pressfreedom/status/1182605522668789760 MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Oct 12, 2019 |
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Oct 12, 2019 05:38
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Grape posted:
Erdogan is not unpredictable if you look at Turkish precedent since Ataturk's rebellion against the west, Ataturks legacy took 90 years to rollback. Erdogan has slowly formed an Islamic republic. The coup attempt was a really great reichstag fire for him. This allowed him to solidify control over the military with a purge. solidify the domestic control, then move towards annexation "LEGAL" annexation specifically. Very quickly moving to Illegal annexation. Here's the loving thing, NO ONE is doing anything about it. Turkey isn't loving stopping at the river. quote:Conference of Lausanne
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Oct 12, 2019 05:43
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Wouldn't bet on them getting Mosul any time soon. Unlike the territory they're attacking, it's under the control of the actual government of Iraq instead of a militia that pretty much even die hard YPG supporters will admit is basically the PKK. Yeah, Turkey's awfully cavalier about operating in northern Iraq too, but they're not enough of a great power to say gently caress it and roll into Arab areas under the control of interationally recognized governments without some kind of casus belli. If Turkey really had maximalist territorial aims, they should have put together a sincere effort to invade and put down ISIS in Iraq and Syria while it still held a shitload of territory, and before the US went with the Kurds. Yeah, Erdogan was in a weaker position domestically at the time, but all that foot dragging still suggests to me he's being more an opportunist killing two birds with one stone now than a dedicated imperialist showing his true colors. From a pragmatic standpoint, I think there are limits to how much hostile territory Turkey can realistically garrison indefinitely too. We'll have to wait and see how deep this invasion ends up going to see what kind of terms they agreed to with Trump and what their appetite for conquest is, and later to see if they bit off more than they can chew.
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Oct 12, 2019 05:55
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Sinteres posted:Wouldn't bet on them getting Mosul any time soon. Unlike the territory they're attacking, it's under the control of the actual government of Iraq instead of a militia that pretty much even die hard YPG supporters will admit is basically the PKK. Yeah, Turkey's awfully cavalier about operating in northern Iraq too, but they're not enough of a great power to say gently caress it and roll into Arab areas under the control of interationally recognized governments without some kind of casus belli. You're thinking of this in the span of couple years. Think of it in the span of a century and Mosul isn't that far off. Remember, The troops Nazi germany sent to reoccupy the rhine didn't have ammunition in their rifles.
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Oct 12, 2019 06:00
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Flayer posted:I honestly do not understand Turkeys motivation for this action apart from blind hatred of Kurds, which is an absurdly bad reason to start a war. I’m under the impression they just want their own Country but that includes part of Turkey. And no leader no matter how benevolent wants to lose land.
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Oct 12, 2019 06:03
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Is there somewhere I can read about why many of the major middle eastern dictators / government officials hate the Kurds so much? I would.assume it's partially tribal politics playing out on a large scale across the middle East.
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Oct 12, 2019 06:13
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Ebeneezer Splooge posted:Is there somewhere I can read about why many of the major middle eastern dictators / government officials hate the Kurds so much? Communism = secularism = HARAM
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Oct 12, 2019 08:03
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:IF THIS ISNT THE START OF WW3 IDK WTF IS This is what I was talking about with this thread chomping at the loving bit wanting war for some reason. If you’re constantly talking about war and only explosions, even if you say you’re "against it" then, uh, the lady doth protest too much. The stuff that makes this thread is always explosions and gunfire, no one almost ever posts about anything except missile strikes and poo poo, unless it’s front page news of the US like Kashoggi. There’s lots of other stuff going on, like the currency meltdown in Lebanon, but no that doesn’t get a single post because it’s not about explosions and it hasn’t made the front page news of international journals. Also what the gently caress is wrong with you (referring war crime gigolo, specifically)
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Oct 12, 2019 08:06
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feel free to be the poster you want to see in the world...
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Oct 12, 2019 08:15
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Saladman posted:This is what I was talking about with this thread chomping at the loving bit wanting war for some reason. If you’re constantly talking about war and only explosions, even if you say you’re "against it" then, uh, the lady doth protest too much. The stuff that makes this thread is always explosions and gunfire, no one almost ever posts about anything except missile strikes and poo poo, unless it’s front page news of the US like Kashoggi. There’s lots of other stuff going on, like the currency meltdown in Lebanon, but no that doesn’t get a single post because it’s not about explosions and it hasn’t made the front page news of international journals. Dude french forces are being shot at by turkish troops. What is wrong with me is seeing this unfold over 6 loving years. Seeing the long peace slowly eroded over time. Researching conflicts and decoding narratives/ political methodology. I mean do you not see the loving bomb being lit in the ME? We have NATO allies loving shooting at each other. Article 5 has kept the peace for a ling time. ERDOGAN is about to defang the article. We are watching 2 countries be invaded by a regional power. How can you not be a little shook by this?
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Oct 12, 2019 08:24
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probably something there while also just being inexplicable blind spots that occur for any number of reasons like mexico, right next to the US, with SA with a good number of goons from mexico, don't think we've every really had a mexpol thread i can think of in the past like six years. even in LatAmPol thread stuff like that just gets shifted out of focus sometimes
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Oct 12, 2019 08:26
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Ebeneezer Splooge posted:Is there somewhere I can read about why many of the major middle eastern dictators / government officials hate the Kurds so much? Kurdistan is spread around Turkey, Iraq, Syria, and Iran. If it existed as an independent country, it would therefore reduce the clay of these four others. That's all there is to it. With that said, ironically, Erdogan started his political career by being friendly to the Kurds. It's him who ended the ban on the letters Q, W, and X. (They were banned until 2013 because, while they're not needed for Turkish words, they are needed for Kurdish names.) Erdie-boy did his 180° on the subjects of the Kurds when they felt emboldened enough to vote for their own party instead of voting for the AKP, depriving Erdogan of a majority win in general elections, forcing him to resort to the drastic measures of putting the impudent Kurdish politicians in jail, breaking the cease-fire agreement with the PKK, and restarting the oppression of the Kurds in the name of the war on terror, and demand fresh new elections.
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Oct 12, 2019 08:30
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Ebeneezer Splooge posted:Is there somewhere I can read about why many of the major middle eastern dictators / government officials hate the Kurds so much? It's just the natural outcome of how the Ottoman Empire fell apart. Kurds had their national myth but got denied a nation of their own at the last second. It's been 99 years and largely that underlying tension remains unchanged. Iraq, Syria and Turkey all sit on really shaky foundations due to how they were formed. Kurdish attempts at forming a nation-state has to be stamped down on at every level because otherwise it's just a matter of time until they start demanding sovereignty, which would mean ceding territory, which would mean losing power, which incidentally is the kind of thing that keeps strongman dictators up at nights. You'll see it morph into tribal sentiment occasionally (ask any iraqi kurd/arab about their opinion about the others groups claim to iraqi oil) but the root cause is that the Kurds present a real threat to the institutional legitimacy of the nation-states they reside in.
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Oct 12, 2019 09:07
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Grape posted:Azerbaijan. 
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Oct 12, 2019 09:07
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Dude french forces are being shot at by turkish troops. What is wrong with me is seeing this unfold over 6 loving years. Seeing the long peace slowly eroded over time. Researching conflicts and decoding narratives/ political methodology. I mean do you not see the loving bomb being lit in the ME? We have NATO allies loving shooting at each other. Article 5 has kept the peace for a ling time. ERDOGAN is about to defang the article. Because it happens all the time? I mean absolutely it’s poo poo and discussion-worthy but talking about world war 3 is gross but so common on this thread (and forum), with everything from attacks on Saudi Aramco, to drone attacks on Hezbollah, to planes being shot down in Pakistan, etc. Every single time the general consensus is "oh this is it, guess we get to live in the world of Fallout now  cool ". I remember specifically someone posted about Lebanon after the drone attack and their long post was basically that it’s a foregone conclusion that there will at the very least be a repeat of the 2006 war. No one is going to go to war for the Kurds, and if an American gets killed, Trump will just bomb the artillery site that fired, probably after a warning to Erdogan to evacuate the personnel, like he did for Russian troops at the airbase that was doing the chemical attacks a couple years ago. Honesty most of the actors in that region are behaving pretty rationally, even if they’re assholes. MBS is the only one I could see doing something wholly irrational and igniting a larger war, but that’s not going to happen over Rojava.
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Oct 12, 2019 09:56
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Reports coming out that turkey have captured the town of Ras Al Ayn and have cut the the international M4 road between manbij and Kobane. These are the two of the three initial objectives, the only thing left out of phase 1 for the Turks is to capture Tal Abyad. So far it’s coming from a Turkish source so take with a giant grain of salt:- https://twitter.com/dailysabah/status/1182943180632809472?s=21
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Oct 12, 2019 12:12
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