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Xavier’s dream isn’t worth poo poo if it gets all the mutants killed. Magneto’s dream isn’t worth poo poo if it gets all the mutants killed. Apocalypse’s dream isn’t worth poo poo if it gets all the mutants killed. None of them even deserve to be leaders unless they start offering survival. That’s what this new story is all about. A new method for Xavier to apply his ideals while still offering any realistic chance of staying alive. It’s the core idea of evolution itself, change or die. Krakoa represents going one step beyond that. Not just surviving, but making a real life. Like Magneto said, forming a new world where success doesn’t come from brute force and aggression, but creativity and teamwork and communication.
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Oct 12, 2019 02:55
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Is this all part of a lengthy interconnected storyline like the lead-up to Secret Wars, or just a flat-out soft reboot?
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Oct 12, 2019 03:34
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Wanderer posted:Is this all part of a lengthy interconnected storyline like the lead-up to Secret Wars, or just a flat-out soft reboot? I guess no matter how it ends it's probably safe to call it a reboot since they are bringing back everyone who died.
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Oct 12, 2019 04:39
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BrianWilly posted:You could argue that, and you'd be wrong, but no one's stopping you etc. What you're missing there is that the X-Men are a power fantasy. You're right, people are not making those threats, because they don't have the power to. X-Men has always been a power fantasy but what that fantasy entails has changed over time. The old fantasy of "what if we had strength and community enough to stand against the people oppressing us and force ourselves to be heard" is still there. It's just taking a different tactic because the world itself has changed around it and what was once considered reasonable isn't anymore. Xavier absolutely used to bend over backwards for humanity. It was in fact a major trait of his. He expected mutants to accept the prejudice and cruelty and be better than it no matter how many atrocities were thrown at them. He wanted peace and he tried to go at it through the Model Minority method which is something that stopped being meaningful since the Claremont era or before. Xavier wanting peace has not changed, or at least not that we're shown. He's just no longer willing to demand mutants sacrifice themselves in hopes that humans will be kind to them. As far as "mutants cause problems too" thing, you're right. I'm not clear why you think they're 'brushing over it' considering that it is addressed multiple times in Hickman's run. However it's also important to note that the vast majority of X-Men focused villains are mutants who believe they have to act a certain way for their survival. Yes, you have the occasional Sabertooth, but X-Men has remarkably few "I want to be evil to be evil" villains. There is a reason so many of the mutant villains eventually end up heroes or on teams. If you give the mutants a place where they are not fighting for their survival every moment of the day then, shock and awe, a lot of them are less shitbirds. There are obviously going to be cracks. Eventually Apocalypse, Sinister, or one of the other morally ambigious assholes is going to cause trouble. The utopia can't last. But it isn't because they're glossing over it or anything like that. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:50 on Oct 12, 2019 |
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Oct 12, 2019 04:48
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I disagree with the idea that Xavier previously had mutants bend over backwards for humans and be model minorities. Most X-Men stories consist of the X-Men swooping in and being justifiably violent towards those that oppress them. The basic story structure goes, rear end in a top hat wants to do something racist> X--Men come in and start blasting people with Punch Lasers and stabbing them with claws> Moral lesson> Fin. The X-Men have never tried to stop Sentinels by tut-tutting them, they scrap them as a first resort.
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Oct 12, 2019 09:00
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The x-men will slaughter robots with no problem. But I think that when they deal with human enemies, they’re always much more polite than they should be. What I remember from the cartoon is that they were dealing with Trask dad, who was developing the master mold system. By the season finale, they convinced Trask dad that mutants were good. But then he died, and Trask son continued to be a murderous villain for the entire rest of the series.
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Oct 12, 2019 09:04
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All this talk of Xavier's Dream seems to ignore the entries in Moira's diary where she details that she's corrupted him/our understanding of the Dream to whatever her plan for survival ultimately entails.
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Oct 12, 2019 12:02
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Aw poo poo, I just realized we didn't get any explanation at all for why Jean's wearing the Marvel Girl costume and acting like a newbie. Is she in any of the books going forward?
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Oct 12, 2019 15:07
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:The key was that you'd see characters inheriting similar but not identical powers, was the thing - but since this was the '80s and early '90s, there weren't nearly so many time-displaced or alternate future kids of extant characters running around, so it was mostly a moot point. Yeah, Franklin has been a mutant for as long as I've been reading comics which stretches back to the 80s. Power Pack to Days of Future Past and Days of Future Present, to Onslaught, and Hickman has even mentioned that he is a mutant a couple times in his Fantastic Four/FF run before it was mentioned again in the House of X. Billzasilver posted:Do you think Hickman is on team Magneto Was Right? Hickman's work has always had a healthy amount of cynicism to it, with the exception of MAYBE his Fantastic Four run? So I think yes, kind of, is probably the right answer. We'll see but I think what was interesting about the Magneto / Xavier interactions is Xavier became more like Magneto but I think Magneto also moved toward Xavier. Magneto's shown a willingness to differ to Xavier and he also backed Jean Grey's "killing humans is a high crime" proposition by Jean, both these things make me think he's softened some of his approach.
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Oct 12, 2019 15:13
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Phenotype posted:Aw poo poo, I just realized we didn't get any explanation at all for why Jean's wearing the Marvel Girl costume and acting like a newbie. Is she in any of the books going forward? Given she's very eloquent in the Quiet Council scene, I think it's just slightly dodgy characterisation. Maybe there'll be a twist, but I think Hickman's take on Jean is just that she's more of an ingenue than she was under Taylor or Morrison.
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Oct 12, 2019 15:26
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Phenotype posted:Aw poo poo, I just realized we didn't get any explanation at all for why Jean's wearing the Marvel Girl costume and acting like a newbie. Is she in any of the books going forward? The costume thing appears to be Hickman just having a thing for that outfit, but I agree that it feels wildly out of place. She's gonna be in both the main X-men title and X-force.
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Oct 12, 2019 15:27
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galagazombie posted:I disagree with the idea that Xavier previously had mutants bend over backwards for humans and be model minorities. Most X-Men stories consist of the X-Men swooping in and being justifiably violent towards those that oppress them. The basic story structure goes, rear end in a top hat wants to do something racist> X--Men come in and start blasting people with Punch Lasers and stabbing them with claws> Moral lesson> Fin. The X-Men have never tried to stop Sentinels by tut-tutting them, they scrap them as a first resort.
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Oct 12, 2019 15:37
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Laughing Zealot posted:The costume thing appears to be Hickman just having a thing for that outfit, but I agree that it feels wildly out of place. She's gonna be in both the main X-men title and X-force. He's said in an interview that the X-Men outfits will be from a wardrobe that consists of all their outfits (I think he may have hinted at new ones, too?) and not a static costume, which has been the case in the past. Honestly, I don't blame him for favoring the traditional one. I think all of Jean's costumes have sucked and the traditional is probably the only one looks the best, aside from her Phoenix costume of course.
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Oct 13, 2019 01:26
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Strange Poon posted:He's said in an interview that the X-Men outfits will be from a wardrobe that consists of all their outfits (I think he may have hinted at new ones, too?) and not a static costume, which has been the case in the past. Honestly, I don't blame him for favoring the traditional one. I think all of Jean's costumes have sucked and the traditional is probably the only one looks the best, aside from her Phoenix costume of course. Now I want an issue where they're going to some sort of formal UN thing because they're a recognized nation and Storm wears her 80's punk outfit.
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Oct 13, 2019 01:33
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Strange Poon posted:He's said in an interview that the X-Men outfits will be from a wardrobe that consists of all their outfits (I think he may have hinted at new ones, too?) and not a static costume, which has been the case in the past.  what the ever living gently caress. This is the REAL earth shattering change he brought to the Marvel Universe.
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Oct 13, 2019 02:31
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Billzasilver posted:
Yeah, the idea, near as I can tell, is moving away from the idea of 'costumes' and into the realm of 'this is what fashion is for mutants.' Considering Hickman's whole deal with this run seems to be establishing mutantkind as a viable subculture, it's a useful and interesting approach IMHO.
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Oct 13, 2019 02:41
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Jumbo Carnation is probably the resurrection I'm looking forward to the most.
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Oct 13, 2019 02:54
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Will the mutant who's power is to be forgotten be remembered and brought back to life?
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Oct 13, 2019 02:58
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Strange Poon posted:He's said in an interview that the X-Men outfits will be from a wardrobe that consists of all their outfits (I think he may have hinted at new ones, too?) and not a static costume, which has been the case in the past. Honestly, I don't blame him for favoring the traditional one. I think all of Jean's costumes have sucked and the traditional is probably the only one looks the best, aside from her Phoenix costume of course. Jean just really sticks out like a sore thumb right now because no one else is wearing their teen year outfits so the whole "everyone is in classic costumes" excuse doesn't really work out for her and instead just seems to single her out for being particularly infantilized in this run. She literally went from being decked out in battle armor to wearing a cheerleader-esque miniskirt. Which, depending on who you talk to, is either some other stroke of Hickmanian genius that will pay off...at some point...in the future...or just a weird creepy annoying thing Hickman is really bad at doing. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 03:00
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I know it was well received but I didn't read that stuff because Jean sucks. Is her face looking so young in X-Men Red just artist's choice or a story point? It's supposed to be older original Jean, right? The caption would seem to suggest that.
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Oct 13, 2019 03:07
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Aphrodite posted:I know it was well received but I didn't read that stuff because Jean sucks. Is her face looking so young in X-Men Red just artist's choice or a story point? Die in a fire.
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Oct 13, 2019 03:11
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Search your feelings. She's the worst member of the Grey-Summers group and that includes Vulcan. Edit: Okay even I can't go that far. But she's #2. Aphrodite fucked around with this message at 03:18 on Oct 13, 2019 |
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Oct 13, 2019 03:15
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Jean Grey does suck, but that's because for the first years of her existence she had no personality beyond "the girl."
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Oct 13, 2019 03:18
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The young jean grey book was great. Should’ve kept her instead of bringing back old jean.
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Oct 13, 2019 03:23
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Yeah, the idea, near as I can tell, is moving away from the idea of 'costumes' and into the realm of 'this is what fashion is for mutants.' Considering Hickman's whole deal with this run seems to be establishing mutantkind as a viable subculture, it's a useful and interesting approach IMHO. Now I want Kitty to appear in the different X-books just to showcase all of her atrocious old costumes. 
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Oct 13, 2019 03:43
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Will the mutant who's power is to be forgotten be remembered and brought back to life? I assume Charlie is backing people up on some sort of unconscious level, so he probably has one of the forgotten mutant, if he can remember to resurrect him at some point is a different question.
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Oct 13, 2019 05:02
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Skwirl posted:I assume Charlie is backing people up on some sort of unconscious level, so he probably has one of the forgotten mutant, if he can remember to resurrect him at some point is a different question. Didn’t they mention he plans to bring back everyone from Genosha?
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Oct 13, 2019 06:40
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I like to imagine the costume directive it just that whatever artist is drawing whatever X-Men character can just draw their favorite costume. "Why is Rogue in her purple space suit? She wears that on Wednesdays."
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Oct 13, 2019 16:56
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BrianWilly posted:Her X-Men: Red costume is really fitting and Pepe Larraz makes it look badass. Then again, Larraz makes everything and everyone look badass. Thanks for this, that was exactly the costume I was thinking of, it's like a more practical, armored version of her costume from the 90s cartoon. Which I always thought made a lot of sense for Jean -- she doesn't do a lot of kickpunching like some of the other X-men, so she doesn't really need the skintight jumpsuit. Makes more sense for her to be wearing some armor in case someone shoots at her while she's busy doing magic mind stuff.
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Oct 13, 2019 17:34
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The Marvel Girl costume is great.It's 70's as hell and I dig it. And it's her best costume outside of the X-Factor costumes, but I'm a sucker for those on anyone.
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Oct 13, 2019 18:39
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I wouldn't even mind if the X-Men really were just pulling random old costumes out of their closets every other week and so Jean would wear that one day, sure, and then next issue she's wearing the New X-Men leather thing, and then Cyclops just shows up wearing his time-displaced teenage Champions suit to a Great Captains meeting or something. That'd be hilarious. But that's not really what's been happening, and it doesn't look like it'll happen in the future either, so......
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Oct 13, 2019 18:45
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Yeah, I've seen speculation that Jean's been reverted to a 'Legacy' persona for whatever reason, which seems...kinda hosed up? Also kinda weird that nobody else has noticed.
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Oct 13, 2019 19:14
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I feel like the "Red" costume plus the old school mask with a unified color scheme would be the platonic ideal of a new, more mature, "superhero" Marvel Girl.
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Oct 13, 2019 19:14
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Is there any decent way to watch the 1992 series these days? I was a little old for it when it aired.
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Oct 13, 2019 19:14
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Transistor Rhythm posted:Is there any decent way to watch the 1992 series these days? I was a little old for it when it aired. It will be on Disney+ in a month.
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Oct 13, 2019 19:22
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Transistor Rhythm posted:Is there any decent way to watch the 1992 series these days? I was a little old for it when it aired. https://youtu.be/wD_Xb512Avc
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Oct 13, 2019 19:25
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Having just read the initial factor run I must agree Jean and Scott's costumes at the end of the series are my favorites for them and it sucks they only had them for a short time.
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Oct 13, 2019 21:28
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I’m reading Inferno, and I wouldn’t mind the O5 wearing their X Factor costumes for a mission.
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Oct 13, 2019 23:43
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Yvonmukluk posted:Yeah, I've seen speculation that Jean's been reverted to a 'Legacy' persona for whatever reason, which seems...kinda hosed up? Also kinda weird that nobody else has noticed. there's "speculation" and there's "it may as well have been blatantly spelled out on the page in one of the House of X issues" and i felt like i was going crazy because nobody else picked up on it
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Oct 14, 2019 01:01
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I didnt notice because idgaf about jean.
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Oct 14, 2019 01:03
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