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Vir posted:I do like how the movie keeps both options open, in a way - in Joker fashion. Arthur could be Wayne's son, he could be adopted normally, or she might have adopted him as a substitute after having to have an abortion. I think it's leaning towards him being Wayne's son. But for those saying that it's unlikely that a single woman could adopt, that's true, but she might not have been single at the time she adopted. I don't really understand what the narrative point would be to the movie telling you Thomas Wayne isn't the father, but he really is the father, and it's kept secret. He is already portrayed as a lovely person. If he is the father he is an even shittier person. Why hide that he is a shittier person so that you can portray him as a lovely person? IMO Arthur is adopted. Adoption is the strongest way you can say he is not Thomas Wayne's son, because that way he isn't even Penny's son either. If he is her biological son then it's much easier to imagine that the 'real' father is not whoever it was supposed to be. Adoption doesn't make a lot of logical sense, yeah, but that's because it's just a plot device.
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Oct 14, 2019 08:17
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It's intentionally ambiguous, there's no right answer. The gag is that not even the Joker knows his true origin story.
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Oct 14, 2019 08:41
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Movie was very good. Pheonix good, cinematography good, music good. Yes. Thank you *Punches out*.
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Oct 14, 2019 10:08
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Steve2911 posted:How? cop detected
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Oct 14, 2019 12:13
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Pedro De Heredia posted:I don't really understand what the narrative point would be to the movie telling you Thomas Wayne isn't the father, but he really is the father, and it's kept secret. He is already portrayed as a lovely person. If he is the father he is an even shittier person. Why hide that he is a shittier person so that you can portray him as a lovely person? Because regardless of the truth it would be extremely loving stupid to out and out say Joker is Bruce's half-brother. That's just extremely stupid eye rolling poo poo. Wrap it up in ambiguity and it's good.
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Oct 14, 2019 12:57
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It’s canonical the movie the Waynes saw was zorro, but the choices get pretty thin now that Batman isn’t set in the 30s What's weird to me is they showed Thomas clearly enjoying an old Charlie Chapin film, so why didn't he just go see an old Zoro movie?
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Oct 14, 2019 13:04
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I like how Joaquin Phoenix was putting emphaSIS on strange sylLABlles in the scene with murRAY so that he could say "We live in a SOCIETY..." without Normies catching it
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Oct 14, 2019 17:46
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Jack B Nimble posted:What's weird to me is they showed Thomas clearly enjoying an old Charlie Chapin film, so why didn't he just go see an old Zoro movie? Bruce is a George Hamilton fan
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Oct 14, 2019 18:01
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Desperado Bones posted:I was thinking the same as Eararaldor (who might have posted a spoiler so I don't wanna quote), how was possible that she, a woman who was considered mentally ill, with a probable history of allowing her partner to abuse her son, and a huge media poo poo storm around her case, was allowed to keep her adopted son? Oh poo poo my bad. Was typing that post on a train. Fixed now. The point is still valid however.
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Oct 14, 2019 18:05
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I like how Joaquin Phoenix was putting emphaSIS on strange sylLABlles in the scene with murRAY so that he could say "We live in a SOCIETY..." without Normies catching it We live in a sislabray?
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Oct 14, 2019 18:26
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I thought this was really good, mainly for Phoenix's performance as well as some pretty cool shots smattered throughout. If anything I wish they'd leaned even harder into the class war stuff. Having Arthur literally look into the camera and say I'm apolitical, I have nothing to say on this subject did strike me as an attempt for the author to wash his/her hands of it.
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Oct 14, 2019 18:50
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A kinder interpretation of the "I'm not political" line is that it's use is meant to intentionally discredit that defense; it's shown to be so obviously false in the movie that someone might be more primed to call bullshit the next time they encounter that disclaimer. Like, if the joker is political despite his insistence otherwise, then maybe batman is also political? And if so, then perhaps he is an opposing political view? That isn't going to blow the mind of anyone reading the thread, but if you're introducing some themes into "a comic book movie", it's not a bad thing to beat into the audience. Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Oct 14, 2019 |
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Oct 14, 2019 19:18
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Edit: double post
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Oct 14, 2019 19:18
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Jack B Nimble posted:A kinder interpretation of the "I'm not political" line is that it's use is meant to intentionally discredit that defense; it's shown to be so obviously false in the movie that someone might be more primed to call bullshit the next time they encounter that disclaimer. That's a very charitable reading of Todd Phillips (a massive arsehole who wants to stop the SJWs from ruining comedy)'s intentions.
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Oct 14, 2019 19:41
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It's possible that was the intent for sure, I do want to see this again soon so I can watch it through that lens. ^^^ But yeah knowing all of this from before the release likely did predispose me to being less charitable with the messaging. Mazzagatti2Hotty fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Oct 14, 2019 |
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Oct 14, 2019 19:42
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A lot of the attacks on the movie seem similar to how Snyder's films are presumed to be fascist jerkoff material because he's a "Randian dude-bro" or whatever who's incapable of forethought or nuance. Since we've already decided the director is a douche, there's no reason to make any effort to engage with a thing he's connected to. It also seems fair to ask why taking the Joker at his word is a good idea when he's explicitly an unreliable narrator, both in the sense of just not understanding what's happening in some instances, and simply because he's mentally ill. The character stating he's not political doesn't mean the film, or even the character itself, is actually not political. e: more broadly, who cares about the director's intent when we have the actual finished product to look at directly?
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Oct 14, 2019 20:13
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Yeah, I saw the movie with no context and only picked up on this opinion of the director from this thread and the RLM review, but when I was watching the movie my initial reaction was to take Joker's insistence on being apolitical as a nice illustration of how, actually, everything is political. Ffs, his cry of "you get what you deserve" is repeated like a slogan by the man who murders the mayoral candidate during what can, in this narrative, be plausibly viewed as not a random mugging but a spontaneous but intentional assassination.
Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Oct 14, 2019 |
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Oct 14, 2019 20:30
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A statement like "What do you get when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that abandons him and treats him like trash?" coming off the heels of his already-meager mental healthcare being cut, the revelation that social services failed both him and his abusive/mentally ill foster mother when he was a child, and the wealthy surrogate father figures of Thomas Wayne/Murray Franklin belittling him while at the same time praising the Patrick Bateman dudes from the subway, is absolutely a political statement, even if he doesn't realize it.
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Oct 14, 2019 20:47
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*adoptive mother
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Oct 14, 2019 21:08
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I want to see a gritty biopic of Phoenix Jones.
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Oct 14, 2019 22:08
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I want a Riddler-centric movie which is all about Edward trying to outwit the Bat just to assert his intelligence. He doesn't have a hard-on for chaos, he wants to play (and win) at cat-and-mouse to compensate for the poo poo thrown at him.
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Oct 14, 2019 22:21
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I like how Joaquin Phoenix was putting emphaSIS on strange sylLABlles in the scene with murRAY so that he could say "We live in a SOCIETY..." without Normies catching it
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Oct 14, 2019 22:43
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gary oldmans diary posted:This is going over my head. I remember him talking like that, but what do you mean? There was a campaign to get Joaquin to say "We live in a society" in the movie since it's a meme for the semi-fake/semi-real Joker Gamer Virgin community. He delivered a line with a slight spin on "we live in a society" but he stressed the word "SOCIETY!!!!!!!" so hard he may as well have looked at the camera and said "Bottom Text"
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Oct 14, 2019 23:36
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:There was a campaign to get Joaquin to say "We live in a society" in the movie since it's a meme for the semi-fake/semi-real Joker Gamer Virgin community. it is possible you are spending too much time online
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Oct 14, 2019 23:38
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What's the point of going offline when stacy only wants chad anyway
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Oct 14, 2019 23:39
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Necrothatcher posted:it is possible you are spending too much time online literally impossible imo
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Oct 14, 2019 23:46
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:I thought this was really good, mainly for Phoenix's performance as well as some pretty cool shots smattered throughout. Arthur’s motivations were very personal, but the media projected political intentions. Yes, Arthur’s path was shaped by society and political decisions, but I think he genuinely isn’t aware of that.
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Oct 14, 2019 23:50
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The movie was good. Mostly because of Joaquin, to be honest. It looked good as well but I dunno, the plot and how it all came together didn't really grab me much. It was good that the lead was captivating enough to make all those scenes of him being poo poo on by life constantly worth it
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Oct 15, 2019 08:58
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The scene where Arthur is out in public and slams his hand down on something in rage, then it smash cuts to him back in his apartment standing in the same position over his sink was one of my favorite moments in the film. Was that right before the self-fridging?ghostwritingduck posted:Arthur’s motivations were very personal, but the media projected political intentions. Yes, Arthur’s path was shaped by society and political decisions, but I think he genuinely isn’t aware of that. Yep that was my thought as well from a perspective of the character. Mazzagatti2Hotty fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Oct 15, 2019 |
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Oct 15, 2019 16:13
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I don't know how consistently Joker is depicted throughout the comics and various shows, but I think the "apolitical" stance that Arthur takes is more in line with the Heath Ledger Joker being an agent of chaos who is only interested in his selfish, psychopathic testing of the human condition. More specifically (not that these are the same universes) I see this movie as a potential genesis of how a madman goes down that dark road. Some men just want to watch the world burn.
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Oct 15, 2019 19:40
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Alfred was talking out of his rear end with that watch the world burn garbage, he couldn't see past his own imperialist ideology. Asked this earlier but never got an answer, has Thomas Wayne run for office before in the comics, or was that something made up for the movie?
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Oct 15, 2019 19:56
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Jack B Nimble posted:A kinder interpretation of the "I'm not political" line is that it's use is meant to intentionally discredit that defense; it's shown to be so obviously false in the movie that someone might be more primed to call bullshit the next time they encounter that disclaimer. Most of the anger over this movie is honestly about this specifically, in my opinion.
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Oct 15, 2019 20:31
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ruddiger posted:Alfred was talking out of his rear end with that watch the world burn garbage, he couldn't see past his own imperialist ideology. I went to browse the wikipedia. It seems he did in Batman: Earth One. But the majority of his stories make him a good person who saved lives. I still like the turn they took in this movie, where he is not good.
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Oct 15, 2019 20:57
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:There was a campaign to get Joaquin to say "We live in a society" in the movie since it's a meme for the semi-fake/semi-real Joker Gamer Virgin community. This thread is in a society.
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Oct 15, 2019 21:22
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ruddiger posted:Alfred was talking out of his rear end with that watch the world burn garbage, he couldn't see past his own imperialist ideology.
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Oct 15, 2019 22:25
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ruddiger posted:Alfred was talking out of his rear end with that watch the world burn garbage, he couldn't see past his own imperialist ideology. Everyone forgets that Alfred was the one who burned the forest. He just blamed it on the bandit for "forcing" him because he couldn't understand someone who wouldn't be bribed.
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Oct 15, 2019 22:31
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“The Dark Knight” posted:Alfred: A long time ago, I was in Burma, my friends and I were working for the local government. They were trying to buy the loyalty of tribal leaders by bribing them with precious stones. But their caravans were being raided in a forest north of Rangoon by a bandit. So we went looking for the stones. But in six months, we never found anyone who traded with him. One day I saw a child playing with a ruby the size of a tangerine. The bandit had been throwing them away. A fascinating couple lines of dialogue. It really shows off the heavy lifting that a well-placed obfuscatory noun can have. Replace “bandit” with a less weighted noun and it’s obvious that the raids were acts of political violence meant to prevent Alfred and his “friends” from bribing local leaders. An interesting mirror to how Joker’s apolitical murders inspired a protest movement.
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Oct 15, 2019 23:08
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Donovan Trip posted:That's a way better movie. Taxi driver is just incel garbage. a bit late but this is an extremely bad reading
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Oct 16, 2019 00:18
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gary oldmans diary posted:You keep arguing that her knowing his name must be synonymous with them being close friends. That's not how anything works. Who the gently caress knows their neighbours names in a big city that's like Gotham in the film, who interacts with the weird crazy people unless they have no choice? Who asks for a date after a person has said they stalked you
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Oct 16, 2019 00:24
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“The worst part of having a mental illness is people expect you to behave as if you don’t.” "Oh, why is everybody so upset about these guys? If it was me dying on the sidewalk, you’d walk right over me. I pass you everyday and you don’t notice me! But these guys, what, because Thomas Wayne went and cried about them on TV?" "What do you get when you cross a mentally ill loner with a society that abandons him and treats him like trash?!" - A man totally not aware of the social and political influences on him ruddiger posted:Asked this earlier but never got an answer, has Thomas Wayne run for office before in the comics, or was that something made up for the movie? I feel it's happened before, but can't really place where (kind of like how I know there's a comic where Bruce specifically wants his mom to wear the pearl necklace because he helped pick them out, but haven't been able to dig it up again) A brief search says the original script for the 1989 film had Wayne getting murdered because he was running for office against Rupert Thorne.
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Oct 16, 2019 01:06
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