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Evil Mastermind posted:Oh heck yeah I'm onboard for this. You can! It's £10 to add an extra one to your pledge. I just thought I'd bundle it into the tiers to make things simpler, as I'm not planning any other addons.
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Oct 16, 2019 16:57
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Reading Voidheart Symphony right now. Definitely a back for me.
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Oct 16, 2019 17:25
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drat, this is a brutal printing error. Fortunately it's also, as he says, as irrelevant as it is obvious.
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Oct 16, 2019 17:50
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Nemesis Of Moles posted:Just sent out the PoD coupons for Americana. Sorry they took a little while! The first proof was garbage and fixing it took a lot of learning about 15 year old printing standards! Hey, would you be willing to do a writeup of what you discovered for posterity?
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Oct 16, 2019 17:53
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90s Cringe Rock posted:drat, this is a brutal printing error. Fortunately it's also, as he says, as irrelevant as it is obvious.
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Oct 16, 2019 18:00
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Evil Mastermind posted:I like the printer's "maybe we can put a sticker over it" mentality for fixing the big printing error they did. I read the sticker solution as being pitched by the creator, not the printer, and it sounds like the creator, not the printer, made the big error.
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Oct 16, 2019 18:08
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Zurui posted:Hey, would you be willing to do a writeup of what you discovered for posterity? I could ask the crew if they'd be able to, the layout and artist people did the hard work, I just gave the thumbs up by the end.
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Oct 16, 2019 18:18
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CitizenKeen posted:I read the sticker solution as being pitched by the creator, not the printer, and it sounds like the creator, not the printer, made the big error.
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Oct 16, 2019 18:23
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 And it's now live! https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jayciles/voidheart-symphony?ref=SA
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Oct 16, 2019 18:34
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Flavivirus posted:
And you're already 1/3 of the way there!
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Oct 16, 2019 18:40
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Flavivirus posted:
Is this Persona 5 but better and a tabletop game? E: oh, you already answered this above. DalaranJ fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Oct 16, 2019 |
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Oct 16, 2019 18:52
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Flavivirus posted:Ayup, DriveThruRPG print proofing can be a real pain in the rear end. Good job on getting this to the finish line! This is 100% my poo poo. Great presentation and it hits a lot of the notes I love from Don't Rest Your Head, and Unknown Armies.
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Oct 16, 2019 18:54
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Nemesis Of Moles posted:Just sent out the PoD coupons for Americana. Sorry they took a little while! The first proof was garbage and fixing it took a lot of learning about 15 year old printing standards! I've ordered my copy and can't wait to read it. I mean, I have the PDF, but I don't really like reading RPGs by phone or tablet.
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Oct 16, 2019 20:18
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Flavivirus posted:
Normally I do not care for Powered By The Apocalypse. Just not my style of play. But you had me at "Persona 5"
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Oct 16, 2019 20:38
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Yeah, Persona minus the transmisic stuff sounds good to me. That art is ugly as hell, though. Edit: How necessary is the deck of cards? Are they just a handy/stylish reference or are they actually required for play? GrandpaPants fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Oct 16, 2019 |
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Oct 16, 2019 20:44
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Flavivirus posted:
After all the fun I recently had with Rhapsody of Blood, hell yea this is backed!
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Oct 16, 2019 20:54
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GrandpaPants posted:Yeah, Persona minus the transmisic stuff sounds good to me. That art is ugly as hell, though. They're handy for remembering what covenants you have and what that does for you but you could write it on a postit note or something (or just add it to your sheet on roll20 or other net-game equivalent).
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Oct 16, 2019 21:04
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GrandpaPants posted:Yeah, Persona minus the transmisic stuff sounds good to me. That art is ugly as hell, though. Handy reference, all their info is in the PDFs and presumably the print book too. And it's funded, sick. Nea fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Oct 16, 2019 |
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Oct 16, 2019 21:07
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GrandpaPants posted:Yeah, Persona minus the transmisic stuff sounds good to me. That art is ugly as hell, though. Obviously I’m personally a fan of the art, but the good news is that we’ve funded (in under 4 hours!) and so hopefully we’ll hit stretch goals allowing me to commission more art soon! And the cards are a stylish reference - they make it easy to track what having, eg, Sun 2 and Justice 1 gets you, but that’s it.
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Oct 16, 2019 22:05
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Flavivirus posted:Ayup, DriveThruRPG print proofing can be a real pain in the rear end. Good job on getting this to the finish line! Oh, I didn't realize you were going to bring this to Kickstarter. Congratulations on getting funded! Does the kickstarter offer anything beyond physical rewards if you've already picked up the version you have on itch.io?
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Oct 16, 2019 23:34
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Flavivirus posted:Obviously I’m personally a fan of the art, but the good news is that we’ve funded (in under 4 hours!) and so hopefully we’ll hit stretch goals allowing me to commission more art soon! Congrats on funding! Im v hyped for this.
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Oct 17, 2019 00:12
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It's already hit the first stretch goal. I'm excited to see what comes next.
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Oct 17, 2019 07:32
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Agent Rush posted:Oh, I didn't realize you were going to bring this to Kickstarter. Congratulations on getting funded! Yup, I won’t be updating the itch.io release from this point. If you want the final pdf, you’ll need to back the kickstarter or pick up the finished release when it’s out.
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Oct 17, 2019 10:00
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Flavivirus posted:Yup, I won’t be updating the itch.io release from this point. If you want the final pdf, you’ll need to back the kickstarter or pick up the finished release when it’s out. Ok, backed. Thanks for the info, I hope your campaign goes smoothly.
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Oct 17, 2019 13:16
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Flavivirus posted:In other news - I'm launching my new kickstarter later today, and thought I'd give the thread an early preview in case there were any glaring errors or weirdness. Voidheart Symphony is a game I could easily summarise as 'What if Persona 5 followed through on its themes and respected queer identities' - it's about a group of regular people who find out that an evil labyrinth dimension is empowering their city's worst predators, and decide to raid it and steal their power. As a queer person who found Persona 5 a resonant and meaningful experience despite its shortcomings, I feel as if I should have been square in your target audience, but I was surprised to find this campaign leaves me cold. I've spent some time thinking about it, and I would have to say it's because the wholesale adoption of Persona 5's mechanics and aesthetic (down to tarot cards as relationship metaphors, graffiti styling, and red as the signature color) feels like a shocking overreach. Persona 5 is a great influence to have, but for a commercial product I would expect to find some ounce of creativity or identity other than the usual fan complaints of "this 'running joke' about these mlm being predators is painfully cruel and offensive", "I'm a non-lovely adult and I want there to be adult Phantom Thieves", and "I miss when The Fool/The World applied to the party". For that reason, the sales pitch of "Persona 5 but woke" feels really shallow and exploitative, like a transparent attempt to manipulate the potential backer into backing a creatively bankrupt campaign. Obviously this isn't a problem for your goals or your campaign since you funded so quickly and are finding great success, but I was so surprised by my negative reaction to something I should have by all rights slam-backed that I had to sit down and figure out why. I understand that the more details straight-up lifted from your influences the more the target audience will know to back this, but this feels like it has absolutely no identity of its own and that's why it's broken my heart.
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Oct 17, 2019 14:03
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pack it in already posted:As a queer person who found Persona 5 a resonant and meaningful experience despite its shortcomings, I feel as if I should have been square in your target audience, but I was surprised to find this campaign leaves me cold. I've spent some time thinking about it, and I would have to say it's because the wholesale adoption of Persona 5's mechanics and aesthetic (down to tarot cards as relationship metaphors, graffiti styling, and red as the signature color) feels like a shocking overreach. Persona 5 is a great influence to have, but for a commercial product I would expect to find some ounce of creativity or identity other than the usual fan complaints of "this 'running joke' about these mlm being predators is painfully cruel and offensive", "I'm a non-lovely adult and I want there to be adult Phantom Thieves", and "I miss when The Fool/The World applied to the party". For that reason, the sales pitch of "Persona 5 but woke" feels really shallow and exploitative, like a transparent attempt to manipulate the potential backer into backing a creatively bankrupt campaign. I'm sorry you feel that way. Stepping back and looking at it, I can kinda see where you're coming from? But a lot of that is convergent evolution - the red, for example, is there mainly because it was a callback to Rhapsody of Blood, the game this one is a sequel to. And as for the tarot, well, I really like tarot cards and enjoy chucking them into any game where I can make them work? Sorry if that makes this creatively bankrupt, but most of my game design comes from having a strong visceral reaction to a creative work and sitting down to try and make something that evokes what that means to me and the potentials and possibilities I saw in it. It's absolutely cool if it's not for you, that's fine! But this game has been a real labour of love for me, and writing it has been part of the process of feeling out my own queer identity over the past year, so... 
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Oct 17, 2019 14:39
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Flavivirus posted:I'm sorry you feel that way. Stepping back and looking at it, I can kinda see where you're coming from? But a lot of that is convergent evolution - the red, for example, is there mainly because it was a callback to Rhapsody of Blood, the game this one is a sequel to. And as for the tarot, well, I really like tarot cards and enjoy chucking them into any game where I can make them work? Sorry if that makes this creatively bankrupt, but most of my game design comes from having a strong visceral reaction to a creative work and sitting down to try and make something that evokes what that means to me and the potentials and possibilities I saw in it. Thank you for taking the time to reply to me. I know my comment was very negative, so I want to recognize and appreciate your willingness to engage with me. It's clear to see a ton of care and effort went into this, and that's why it's so disappointing to me since I would have loved to play this. It feels more like a licensed product, instead of something taking an influence and running with it to create something new. I can't identify what makes this uniquely Voidheart Symphony. If you don't mind me asking, what would you say is Voidheart Symphony's signature, or the thing that makes it stand out?
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Oct 17, 2019 14:46
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pack it in already posted:Thank you for taking the time to reply to me. I know my comment was very negative, so I want to recognize and appreciate your willingness to engage with me. Hm. I'd say the Castle is a big thing? The fact that you're not fighting a few bad actors, but the way that society as a whole is structured to reward exploitation and enable predators. This ties into how continually drawing on its power to run your revolution pushes you towards viewing the world in a hierarchical, predator/prey mindset, and how nurturing a community that supports your actions and who you go to for guidance is crucial in making a lasting change. It's a setup where I'm trying to tag in some of my experiences with real life protest movements to talk about how trying to make a difference can get complicated and messy, especially when the leaders of the movement start getting power and responsibility over others. Not to mention that it allows me to spotlight ways in which system oppression manifests in different ways in different communities, especially once we hit the stretch goal where I commission a ton of other writers to write about places near and dear to them and round out the breadth of perspectives in the book. I'd also say it's a game about reckoning with your self-image as an ongoing process, in a way that I don't think the persona games properly deliver on. Instead of a one-and-done revelation, you're constantly altering what your idealised form is and what that says about you, and dealing with disruptions and alterations in your mundane life. And a large part of that is that relationships are mutual and take work, as well as being a much greater part of your character than they were in persona games. In the mundane world, your abilities are almost entirely defined by the people who support you and care for you, instead of being incidental bonuses! Not to mention, I think just having a party of characters around a table in an interlinking web of relationships makes a big difference in the stories you tell compared to a single personality void being all things to all people in order to get the game bonuses. Like, look, I see where you're coming from? But I don't think it's a sin to look at a work that meant a great deal to you and write a response to it, and my problems with Persona 5 aren't cynical just because they're 'usual fan complaints'. I'm proud of what I've made here.
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Oct 17, 2019 15:16
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Flavivirus posted:Like, look, I see where you're coming from? But I don't think it's a sin to look at a work that meant a great deal to you and write a response to it, and my problems with Persona 5 aren't cynical just because they're 'usual fan complaints'. I'm proud of what I've made here. Thanks for your rundown. I appreciate getting to hear your thoughts directly. It's obvious a lot of effort and thought went into this, and I'm glad you're having such wonderful success.
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Oct 17, 2019 15:28
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pack it in already posted:As a queer person who found Persona 5 a resonant and meaningful experience despite its shortcomings, I feel as if I should have been square in your target audience, but I was surprised to find this campaign leaves me cold. I've spent some time thinking about it, and I would have to say it's because the wholesale adoption of Persona 5's mechanics and aesthetic (down to tarot cards as relationship metaphors, graffiti styling, and red as the signature color) feels like a shocking overreach. Which game mechanics were lifted wholesale from Persona 5? Not like on a metaphorical level like using Tarot to represent certain people/personality traits, but actual game mechanics.
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Oct 17, 2019 18:41
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Nuns with Guns posted:Which game mechanics were lifted wholesale from Persona 5? Not like on a metaphorical level like using Tarot to represent certain people/personality traits, but actual game mechanics. There isn't even a Jungian Pokemon-style persona capture-and-fusion system. It's hardly a Shin Megami Tensei game at all.
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Oct 17, 2019 19:32
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I really appreciate the discourse here, in terms of its thoughtfulness and civility. I can understand where both perspectives come from and it's perhaps slightly closer to Persona than I'd prefer (but it's a tight margin, because that's ALSO a lot of the draw - much as the obvious Castlevania/Bloodborne influences on Rhapsody made that my favorite Legacy spin-off). I'm very happy to have backed and very happy to have also read a measured and polite back-and-forth between creator and a prospective audience member who had a different reaction.
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Oct 17, 2019 20:51
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Warthur posted:I didn't spot any - Persona doesn't run off Powered By the Apocalypse, after all. Yeah I was going to say... none of the nitty gritty mechanics match up to Persona at all. It's Rhapsody of Blood's infiltration into the castle mechanics, but with the generational changover of player characters substituted for a Blades in the Dark-style cycle of downtime/side projects/and recovery, and with the Covenants expanded out a bit to integrate the tarot arcana into bonuses you get from interacting with them. The card suits relating to stats are in vanilla Rhapsody of Blood, even. Even the implied alternate self isn't even a separate stand that lightning punches for you Persona-style, it's just how you physically look in the castle. It's about as much of a distinctive response and redressing of Persona 5 and Persona as a series as you could ask for in an analog gaming medium. Also... pack it in already posted:Obviously this isn't a problem for your goals or your campaign since you funded so quickly and are finding great success, but I was so surprised by my negative reaction to something I should have by all rights slam-backed that I had to sit down and figure out why. I understand that the more details straight-up lifted from your influences the more the target audience will know to back this, but this feels like it has absolutely no identity of its own and that's why it's broken my heart. You're a condescending freak who erupted out of the ground randomly because someone said unkind thing about a JRPG you love in an offhand manner and you have no idea what you're talking about. Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 02:33 on Oct 18, 2019 |
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Oct 18, 2019 02:29
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pack it in already is being perfectly cordial, there's no need to call them a freak
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Oct 18, 2019 02:51
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Nuns with Guns posted:You're a condescending freak who erupted out of the ground randomly because someone said unkind thing about a JRPG you love in an offhand manner and you have no idea what you're talking about. If you think you are the polite and rational person in this conversation I have some bad news for you.
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Oct 18, 2019 02:57
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Nuns with Guns posted:You're a condescending freak who erupted out of the ground randomly because someone said unkind thing about a JRPG you love in an offhand manner and you have no idea what you're talking about. Whoa, chill.
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Oct 18, 2019 02:58
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honestly, if someone said "I wanted to make a Persona tabletop game but don't have the license, so I made it as close as I legally can" I don't think I'd have a problem with that anyway like, creativity is good but if something's a deliberate emulation then I'm not going to get mad if it does some deliberate emulating, I don't think there's anything wrong with that in principle good doesn't always mean creative and creative doesn't always mean good, I appreciate that pack it in is being cordial but god drat if that wasn't a very strong statement over what I'm frankly feeling is a subjective issue of taste, not an objective flaw of the game I might have some bias as "[creative endeavor] is good but it's not the [creative endeavor] I wanted so it's wrong" is a sentiment that has haunted me all my life also because if I could use the Mario universe for anything and get away with it I'd be riding it into the sun and I would feel zero shame
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Oct 18, 2019 03:04
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neaden posted:If you think you are the polite and rational person in this conversation I have some bad news for you. I'm not trying to be polite here but rationality was never really part of this equation Brother Entropy posted:pack it in already is being perfectly cordial, there's no need to call them a freak I guess it's possible to cordially rush into a thread to say someone's project is creatively bankrupt, shallow, exploitative, and manipulative, sure Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Oct 18, 2019 |
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Oct 18, 2019 03:05
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I think there's definitely a well-meaning and polite way to ask a creator what sets their game apart from the things that have inspired it, but doing so by saying things like "the sales pitch of "Persona 5 but woke" feels really shallow and exploitative, like a transparent attempt to manipulate the potential backer into backing a creatively bankrupt campaign" or "this feels like it has absolutely no identity of its own" doesn't really come across like that to me, tbh. Jay's already handled things and I don't care to speak for her in regards to her own project and experiences making it, but I have to admit that reading pack it in's initial post made my eyebrows elevate all the way to the ceiling.
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Oct 18, 2019 03:13
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Nuns with Guns posted:I'm not trying to be polite here but rationality was never really part of this equation OK, enjoy acting like an rear end in a top hat then. ETA: like, no one rushed in this thread. This isn't your house, it's a public space and pack it in isn't an intruder so gently caress off with that.
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Oct 18, 2019 03:17
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