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toadee posted:Yes, especially at that range you will never do anything but bounce secondaries off of their belt armor - the AI targets all secondary guns at the middle of the enemy ship - it will land all of them right on the middle of the main belt at that range. Even with IFHE and the larger secondaries of Massachusetts or the German BBs, you aren't going to pen belt armor ever. The other BBs get better using IFHE against cruisers, like they can start to pen the bow and deck of a lot of them with IFHE, but against Battleships secondaries basically only set fires, and maybe when you're farther away dispersion will land some shells into their superstructure/deck and get you a few pens. Thats good to know, thank you.
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Oct 18, 2019 16:40
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ReapersTouch posted:Thats good to know, thank you. It's honestly a really stupid place to have them aim, if they aimed higher you'd end up with more pens against all targets, but, you know, Weegee
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Oct 18, 2019 16:50
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toadee posted:It's honestly a really stupid place to have them aim, if they aimed higher you'd end up with more pens against all targets, but, you know, Weegee They said moving the targeting location manually for every ship in the game isn’t happening. Too much work and “it has advantages and disadvantages”. I have a related question about firing guns. So when you lock onto a target you get a moderate dispersion buff. Does it also adjust aim toward the target at all? I’m especially curious about what happens to the aim points of your own guns, since the guns on the front of your ship should have significantly different inclination from the rear ones if they’re all aiming at the same point in space. Does the game adjust this automatically? Is it different if you salvo vs ripple fire?
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Oct 18, 2019 17:01
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Yolomon Wayne posted:Is there any point in buying the non-premium italian chests? Yes, ships can drop from normal crates. Chance for it is lower though, but you get more rolls for it so it might work. Last time with the French DD's I got a handful of Premium crates for the T5-6 and bought a dozen normal crates for doubs to get the T7. It's still a gamble though.
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Oct 18, 2019 18:37
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Velius posted:They said moving the targeting location manually for every ship in the game isn’t happening. Too much work and “it has advantages and disadvantages”. I know that I've drilled islands that a boat was behind because I didnt have the ship I was aiming at locked on. Once I would lock on, the shells would find enough room to clear the land.
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Oct 18, 2019 19:57
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ReapersTouch posted:I know that I've drilled islands that a boat was behind because I didnt have the ship I was aiming at locked on. Once I would lock on, the shells would find enough room to clear the land. I think if you lock, it knows you want to shoot the boat and arcs the shot. If you dont lock, it basically tries to shoot that point in a straight as possible line.
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Oct 18, 2019 20:00
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Yeah, that makes sense.
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Oct 18, 2019 20:01
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Jenova's SAP really does a number on T5 cruisers.
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Oct 18, 2019 20:18
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Moral_Hazard posted:I've felt that way and I haven't checked my stats in a long time because I took a break from the game, but I think playing high tier cruisers well, positioning is king, followed by knowing when to commit. First rule is don't charge in. Second is always keep looking at that mini-map. Someone (I think here) said once, cruisers become more powerful as the game progresses and a DM with better than 50% health in the late game is a murder machine and I agree with that. I think my problem is just solopubbing. At tier 10 I find myself in cruisers lasting to endgame but I tend to see the following: Teams ignoring radar spotting Teams abandoning a flank we control and not spotting for me smoke firing Teams losing 5-6 ships in the first 2 minutes and the game quickly collapsing before I can meaningfully contribute. Lately I am seeing fewer and fewer games being decided late game and I don't quite know why. Of course the other thing is I don't play my tier 10 ships often enough; I do great in the Zao and Yamato where I have the most experience.
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Oct 18, 2019 20:35
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Blindeye posted:I think my problem is just solopubbing. At tier 10 I find myself in cruisers lasting to endgame but I tend to see the following: I think matchmaking monitor is useful for this. Not really for identifying good players to focus (I don't focus good players, I think most of the time you're better off killing the enemy idiots faster) but to guess whether your flank is going to win or lose. I play a lot more aggressively if the triple division on my flank is purple than if it's three [USMC8] kurfursts with 110k combined average damage. It forces you to notice how bad the average player is though. It really is surprising. Also I think CVs make it less common for games to go undecided until the end. Not only because of decent players quitting, but because in a CV match there's an unkillable ship in the back that farms damage and spots anyone who tries to use concealment to play against the enemy team's greater hp.
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Oct 18, 2019 21:24
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davejk posted:There are only 5 ships in the game where secondaries are a good idea: Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to focus on the Russians right now because they seem to be more fun for survivability if that makes any sense. I have a comedy secondary build on my Georgia. The captain is my Atlanta captain and he has IFHE so those secondaries actually contribute a fair amount of damage. James Garfield posted:I think matchmaking monitor is useful for this. ... I need to get mods back on in this game. With CV's you can also get a real imbalance in ability. If your team's CV is a decent player and the red one is a potato, there's a good chance your team is going to win the match.
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Oct 18, 2019 21:51
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Velius posted:I have a related question about firing guns. So when you lock onto a target you get a moderate dispersion buff. Does it also adjust aim toward the target at all? I’m especially curious about what happens to the aim points of your own guns, since the guns on the front of your ship should have significantly different inclination from the rear ones if they’re all aiming at the same point in space. Does the game adjust this automatically? Is it different if you salvo vs ripple fire? Rangefinding is done automatically in the game. Normally it's whatever your cursor is pointed at that your guns are angled/elevated to shoot at. Target locking changes the rangefinder from 'whatever your aiming at' to 'whatever your locked on to.' Thus allowing you to shoot behind/in front of islands to hit your target while your cursor is pointed at said island. It's a bit part of why the game is an arcade shooter rather than a simulation. The only difference between salvo fire and ripple fire is the server calculating dispersion: for salvo fire every shot works off the same calculation while ripple fire gives each turret it's own calculation.
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Oct 18, 2019 23:34
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Ripple fire is also great for severely pissing off BB’s that you’re raining on from cover. When the impact noises and screen shaking never stops, the salt flows.
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Oct 19, 2019 00:44
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Ripple Fire has it's uses, especially when you want multiple calculations going out (setting fires or gaming german accuracy.) I also find it's a bit more accurate against targets moving towards/away from you.
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Oct 19, 2019 01:02
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Fires aren't per shell? 
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Oct 19, 2019 01:54
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Fires are per-shell but you can’t start 2 fires in the same location. Instead of putting 12 shells which roll 3 fires into the same section, you can walk the shells over the target and get all your fires.
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Oct 19, 2019 02:33
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So far the Italian Cruiser line seems extremely  I've only played the Genova, Montecuccoli and Trento so far, so they could get better, but I'm not sure they will. SAP damage output seems good the first few volleys, but once you've saturated the target the damage output drops to pathetic levels. This is exascerbated by the bad reload time. Your main targets are Destroyers and other Cruisers, but Destroyers will never show themselves unless they're terrible, so that generally leaves Cruisers, which admittantly, SAP does well against, but since roughly half of Cruisers are island huggers, that leaves very few good targets to shoot against. Battleships, especially angled, laugh off your shells. If you're in a game with half of both teams consisting of BB's you're generally gonna have a bad time. You have bad concealment, so you can't creep up on people to unleash high alpha damage and then dissapear. You have no tools like Hydro to flush out DD's. Only thing you have is the Fuel Smoke gimmick, which I'm not sure is good enough. You've got a massive smoke fire penalty, so you can't use it within ~8km and still shoot. You can rush people with it to torp them, which is fun, but semi-suicidal. Maybe, it's just me, not really a cruiser guy in the first place, but they seem pretty boring to play. Will keep playing, hope they start clicking if I play more. Anyone else have any experience with them? Tips on how to make them work?
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Oct 19, 2019 06:08
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Shivers posted:Maybe, it's just me, not really a cruiser guy in the first place, but they seem pretty boring to play. Will keep playing, hope they start clicking if I play more. Anyone else have any experience with them? Tips on how to make them work? I have the Trento. As far as I can tell, the secret to getting a high damage game in the Trento is to detonate someone with a torp. Maybe two people depending on how much hp they have. The full speed smoke is legitimately a good consumable but it really, really doesn't make up for the guns.
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Oct 19, 2019 07:13
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stupid question, will the 19pt captains from the event generate elite commander xp? also, is there any point to historical commanders? They dont seem to have any special skill, at least the armory doesnt say so. Yolomon Wayne fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 12:02
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Yesterday, after loading into a game with my Shokaku, the game just completely froze immediately after the match started. So I rebooted and was back in the game after about 3 minutes. Apologized to my team and proceeded to play. Ultimately it came down to a 3 on 3 situation with me, a destroyer and a cruiser on our side, and a Hakuryu, a destroyer and a Scharnhorst on the other, all three shot to poo poo by then. I was on three kills at this point, and a bunch of damage. I was moving my Shokaku to capture a cap, when our destroyer decided to put a full torpedo load into my side from 5km out, blowing himself up because the friendly damage protection kicked in after about two torps. This was punishment for "AFKing" according to him. Which like OK sure I guess but it's some real loving galaxy brain poo poo to do that ~12 minutes after the fact when it's a super close game and you're throwing it. I went on to mop up the rest of the team and finished with six kills, my first ever Kraken in a CV. Reported the guy with a replay to Wargaming but nothing will come of it.
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Oct 19, 2019 12:05
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James Garfield posted:I have the Trento. As far as I can tell, the secret to getting a high damage game in the Trento is to detonate someone with a torp. Maybe two people depending on how much hp they have. That's the conclusion I'm coming to as well.
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Oct 19, 2019 14:16
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Moral_Hazard posted:Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to focus on the Russians right now because they seem to be more fun for survivability if that makes any sense. Russian battleships completely outclass the Germans in both survivability and gun power, yes. The tier 10 is essentially immune to everything but fires and close-range AP into its side. As for Georgia, secondaries work against the ship's own strengths. Of all tier 9 battleships, it has the best speed, the best accuracy, but some of the worst armour and the worst main battery DPM. You should be using its speed to move to flanks and take accurate broadside sniping shots, not closing to secondary range.
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Oct 19, 2019 14:28
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Yolomon Wayne posted:stupid question, will the 19pt captains from the event generate elite commander xp? Yes, they will generate elite captain xp. And no, there's no point to getting the historical commanders, unless you like history or need a quick 10 point commander and don't have one laying around.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:11
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KotS is on and as expected it's the Kremlin and Smolensk show, the two most balansed ships in the game
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Oct 19, 2019 15:26
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NTRabbit posted:KotS is on and as expected it's the Kremlin and Smolensk show, the two most balansed ships in the game Ah, that famous russian navy of ww2. The fabled fleet that single-handily in one epic battle sank the bismark, tirpitz, gneisenau, and scharnhorst. Then swung up through the NE corridor to thrash the japanese by sinking musashi and yamato. Good to see that fleet being properly represented in this game.
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Oct 19, 2019 16:04
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Game 1 ended with a Kremlin 100-0ing a Des Moines in one salvo through an angled nose. Balans.
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Oct 19, 2019 16:31
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Every loving time...  PSA: Remember when you unlock ITA ships to equip the top modules which are unlocked and given to you, but for some reason for not equipped by default.
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Oct 19, 2019 16:46
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One thing thats been bothering me for a while now is dodging and hitting: Sometimes i shoot at a ship, it breaks course and my shots miss. Not once when i get shot and break course does this affect the incomming shells in any way shape or form. I just had a DD game i which i was shot at from 13km, turned 90 degrees and had the entire salvo still land dead center. After that i went in a striahgt line, saw shells being fired, hit breaks, dead center again. Sometimes it feels like the game rolls for hit or miss when you fire and no matter what you do the shells are being steered right where they need to be. Enemies never seem to lead too far, or too short too. Are there mods that show where you need to lead your target (like warthunder arcade) or does everyone shooting me in all games ever jsut know exactly how far he needs to lead with the particular guns he is using against the particular ship im playing? I have a rough outline of how far i need to lead depending on the class i am playing and the class i am shooting at, but still sometimes i just land 2-3 ticks short or wide. So, in short, how do you reliably dodge, and how do you counter that?
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Oct 19, 2019 17:33
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Yolomon Wayne posted:One thing thats been bothering me for a while now is dodging and hitting: The sights show where to lead, so long as you know how fast the target is moving (which you can estimate based on the ship they are playing and memorization/experience). The OP has a guide that goes over it. Mods that show you where to aim are prohibited, and using one can get you banned. They're also very bad at actually teaching you how to aim, anyways. Dodging shots isn't about reaction, its about prediction. Same thing goes for aiming, too. Very rarely will a maneuver made at the last second dodge much of the enemy's salvo. Aiming for the enemy's current course will only get you good hits when the enemy decides they won't adjust course. When aiming, you need to anticipate if the enemy is going to slow down, is still accelerating (or will start), and if they're going to turn in or out. When dodging, the same thoughts apply. Is my enemy going to lead me enough? Is he aiming high or low? Will he anticipate a turn? If you want a general analysis based on my experience with people shooting at DDs, people don't lead enough (so shots will typically fall behind you), and aim high (so shots will typically land on your superstructure or go above you). DDs very typically dodge shots by either cutting throttle or turning out, so people will aim accordingly. They can also aim based on what sort of dodge is also available to you. If turning IN to dodge the shot will just worsen your situation (you're hard spotted and being chased), they're probably not going to predict that sort of turn, as you'll just be getting yourself killed if you do that.
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Oct 19, 2019 18:21
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Hazdoc posted:The sights show where to lead, so long as you know how fast the target is moving (which you can estimate based on the ship they are playing and memorization/experience). This too me two years to learn: the smoke coming out of their smokestacks is a very reliable speed indicator. Boats in game and real life keep their forward momentum through turns until it is completely bled off so you may have turned 45 degrees but your location is still very close to your previous course until you pick up speed in the new direction. If the shells only have a few seconds of travel time there's no amount of course correction that can throw off a decently aimed salvo.
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Oct 19, 2019 18:41
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demonR6 posted:
Just reading the OP again, this bit made me snicker...
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Oct 19, 2019 19:03
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Essentially, aim with the crosshairs using Time to Impact as your guide. Crosshairs should equal TTI on a target moving 30 knots. Every 10 knots difference is 1/2 or double the lead. So a BB moving 20 knots gets half the TTI, and a full speed Shimakaze at 40 knots requires double TTI lead. Then you have to reduce horizontal lead based on their angle, and adjust vertical aim accordingly. Vertical aiming is a lot less defined as I haven't figured out a marking to TTI cheat sheet, but bear in mind that adjustments vertically are nowhere as big as horizontal ones. Worry more about getting the horizontal position right, as shell groupings are usually wide vertically anyways. Dynamic crosshairs are really useful, as they'll adjust the bars as you zoom in and out, in case you use different zoom levels.
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Oct 19, 2019 21:22
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I have several thousand games played and just learned that you can salvo your guns simultaneously by double clicking
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Oct 19, 2019 21:26
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One of the options in the official modpack is a stats pane for your enemies that lists their possible top speed and that can help you aim. It accounts for upgrades too (but not flags maybe?) I mostly use it for DD's and Klebers especially as a 'GDI i have to actually zoom out to see this ship i'm shooting at' indicator. Hazdoc posted:Vertical aiming is a lot less defined as I haven't figured out a marking to TTI cheat sheet, but bear in mind that adjustments vertically are nowhere as big as horizontal ones. The mental aid I used to get used to vertical aiming is imagining an oval/elliptical orbit of where my crosshairs need to be in order to hit the boat. From there it's mostly practice. I still forget to compensate for the perspective shift whenever I use spotter planes though. That's kind of annoying.
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Oct 19, 2019 23:44
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Ahahaha, i though being bottom tier in a T6 carrier was bad, gently caress me in a T8. I cant even go spot for my team since any DD appearently is built out of flaks.
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Oct 19, 2019 23:55
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Yolomon Wayne posted:One thing thats been bothering me for a while now is dodging and hitting: What I have found for dodging shots in something like a DD is that you don’t want to hard turn, you will bleed too much momentum without adjusting your course that much. Doing slight changes will get you farther from their aim point. At least at longer ranges.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:23
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toadee posted:Game 1 ended with a Kremlin 100-0ing a Des Moines in one salvo through an angled nose. Balans. A Kremlin that shrugged off the combined fire from the Des Moines, a Stalingrad, a Grozovoi, and a Salem while already below half hp, and survived the battle. After that it went on to muller a Republique at close range because its turrets spin like a top. It was the only battle I saw before going to bed, but it was enough.
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Oct 20, 2019 00:33
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Matchmaker having a normal one tonight.
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Oct 20, 2019 04:10
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Changing speed is good for dodging, you can still do it if your ship has a slow rudder and it doesn't conflict with angling your armor. It's funny when someone keeps shooting the water in front of your stopped ship because they expect you to move. You have to be careful doing it in French DDs though, I always slow down into shells in the Kleber because pubbies don't lead it enough.
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Oct 20, 2019 04:43
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James Garfield posted:Changing speed is good for dodging, you can still do it if your ship has a slow rudder and it doesn't conflict with angling your armor. Apparently it's pretty much how you're supposed to dodge and kite with high tier French cruisers, for instance: slow down and speed up, because with the acceleration mod it's very quick to do. Would probably also work with the Minotaur, and of course destroyers.
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Oct 20, 2019 11:10
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