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Solaris 2.0 posted:“Russians Bad” is still a thing in our media too! Season 3 of Stranger Things features Russians heavily and “Russia Bad” is a major theme. Call of Duty Modern Warfare’s whole plot is about a Russian Invasion lol. Stranger Things is doing that if only to homage Cold War era pop culture/media. But as a Canadian born in 89, it really was wild just how much "Russians are the villains" permeated media. Cold War propaganda painting communism and socialism as dirty words still lingers to this day, but I'm sure everyone is well aware of that part already. 
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Oct 19, 2019 14:54
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Lightning Knight posted:There’s lots of news outlets like this. Mother Jones has that guy who goes into deep cover into the worst places for amazing pieces alongside absolute poo poo garbage. That doesn’t mean we have to or should give them money. Isn't that just saying journalism is fundamentally broken? Investigative journalism is funded as an afterthought for the most part, with only a handful of viable dedicated investigative outlets and those generally heavily beholden to their advertisers anyway. It's not like a ultraconsumerist model of only funding individual journalists you like has proven practical. like where is this mecca of journalism
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Oct 19, 2019 14:54
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lol boris's johnson has been deflated yet again at least we're not the only english-speaking country with cocked-up politics
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Oct 19, 2019 14:54
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Isn't that just saying journalism is fundamentally broken? Investigative journalism is funded as an afterthought for the most part, with only a handful of viable dedicated investigative outlets and those generally heavily beholden to their advertisers anyway. It's not like a ultraconsumerist model of only funding individual journalists you like has proven practical. Journalism is fundamentally broken, yes, that is the point.
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Oct 19, 2019 14:55
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well, when you say american journalism, i presume you have some ideal or at least better way you are contrasting it to. i mean you seem to be saying that between the choice of the current purveyors and conductors of investigative journalism and nothing you choose nothing, or am i wrong?
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Oct 19, 2019 14:57
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I guess my point is, how do we fix it? I mean we need investigative journalists and they need to be paid/funded somehow. This true both as the National and local level. Locally its even worse since most local papers have gone out of business. Even where I live l, a rich suburban county of DC the local paper went under and only online blogs are left. But they are critical to reporting local news and uncovering local political shenanigans. Maybe it’s outside the scope of this thread. Solaris 2.0 fucked around with this message at 14:59 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 14:57
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I guess my point is, how do we fix it? I mean we need investigative journalists and they need to be paid/funded somehow. you need to basically destroy facebook and then probably shatter google's ad monopoly but google is less destructive than facebook
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Oct 19, 2019 14:59
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:well, when you say american journalism, i presume you have some ideal or at least better way you are contrasting it to. Solaris 2.0 posted:I guess my point is, how do we fix it? I mean we need investigative journalists and they need to be paid/funded somehow. I wouldn’t give money to an institution that employs Bari Weiss or Bret Stephens, but that kind of individual consumerist thing isn’t actually the point. The point is that journalism has always been broken, because capitalism isn’t interested in journalism. It’s interested in tabloids and opinion pieces by the worst dregs of society. Journalism will always be a tertiary consideration under capitalism. The solution is to kill capitalism.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:00
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Guess who's up and about https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1185534210196627456
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Oct 19, 2019 15:00
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Lightning Knight posted:Ok serious post, this isn’t what should be next to Trump’s dumb history book entry, his ethnic cleansing of Latino people and facilitation of genocide in the Middle East should be. The hotel thing is minor bullshit. I know that, it's actually one of the less important bad things he's done. But it's easily the most brazen and obvious. "During investigation leading up to impeachment, Trump awarded his own hotel the annual international meeting of economic leaders."
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Oct 19, 2019 15:01
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Lightning Knight posted:I wouldn’t give money to an institution that employs Bari Weiss or Bret Stephens, but that kind of individual consumerist thing isn’t actually the point. The point is that journalism has always been broken, because capitalism isn’t interested in journalism. It’s interested in tabloids and opinion pieces by the worst dregs of society. Journalism will always be a tertiary consideration under capitalism. “Kill Capitalism” isn’t a solution that fixes the problems of today tho. You still need to find a way to fund journalists and “destroy capitalism” isn’t going to keep them employed. A serious policy proposal is needed. I think asking for a detail plan on how to save journalism isn’t going to garner a serious discussion in this thread tho so ill stop.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:02
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canepazzo posted:Guess who's up and about No  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acT_PSAZ7BQ
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Oct 19, 2019 15:03
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canepazzo posted:Guess who's up and about Very low energy
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Oct 19, 2019 15:03
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Lightning Knight posted:I wouldn’t give money to an institution that employs Bari Weiss or Bret Stephens, but that kind of individual consumerist thing isn’t actually the point. The point is that journalism has always been broken, because capitalism isn’t interested in journalism. It’s interested in tabloids and opinion pieces by the worst dregs of society. Journalism will always be a tertiary consideration under capitalism. journalism has done just fine under capitalism for a long time, the issue is that the current economic model of journalism - supported by ads - has been essentially gutted and there's not currently any good replacement. breaking up the google/facebook ad monopolies would go a long way towards fixing that.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:04
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evilweasel posted:you need to basically destroy facebook and then probably shatter google's ad monopoly but google is less destructive than facebook This actually sounds like a good first step!
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Oct 19, 2019 15:04
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Zwabu posted:I know that, it's actually one of the less important bad things he's done. But it's easily the most brazen and obvious. I mean no it’s objectively not, he’s brazenly putting Latino people into camps. Keep some loving perspective please.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:04
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Solaris 2.0 posted:This actually sounds like a good first step! yeah, facebook as a company basically needs to be destroyed, it's a parasite that does no good for anyone besides zuck
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Oct 19, 2019 15:05
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TulliusCicero posted:I think he is really pushing things too far with how absolutely blatant he is, and a lot of them are privately wondering what he will want them to defend next It's going to be interesting to see how many GOP defections against Trump finally occur. He's definitely broken a few of them, but it's going to take something really huge and directly threatening to them to really get the GOP to revolt.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:05
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Edit: I am going to gracefully concede this argument while I have the chance because I’m waiting on a surgery.
Lightning Knight fucked around with this message at 15:12 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 15:06
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teen witch posted:https://www.vice.com/en_au/article/6azk5a/please-squad-down-everyone Thanks! Now I can continue not using the phrase, but for a reason beyond just 'I have no reason to use this phrase' 
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Oct 19, 2019 15:16
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Zwabu posted:This G7 thing is going to be a big history book entry about the Trump administration. Like Teapot Dome kind of thing. Unless all the schools are Donald Trump the IVth High School and we're all reading from DeVos/Trump textbooks. The thing that scares me the most is 20 years down the textbooks will make that the reason why his presidency failed or was regarded badly, because "was operating at the behest of Russia, abetted by the entire Republican Party" will have been completely whitewashed from public consciousness.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:24
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evilweasel posted:yeah, facebook as a company basically needs to be destroyed, it's a parasite that does no good for anyone besides zuck Same for the entire ad-tech industry really. We keep discovering new and exciting ways in which individualized algorithmic targeting of ads (and content to push ads) is a net negative for society. The whole concept is metastatic capitalism cancer.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:34
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evilweasel posted:you need to basically destroy facebook and then probably shatter google's ad monopoly but google is less destructive than facebook They need to be nationalized. They're monopolistic networks. If you burned every facebook server and employee to ash in a single flaring instant, within a couple of months there would just be a new monopolistic network doing the same thing. If you cut it into parts it'd just take longer for one of them to eat the others and become a monopoly again. quote:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly We can't get rid of the idea of facebook and we can't allow a private monopoly to be that powerful. Nationalization is the only valid alternative. Over the long term there is no other alternative.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:40
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Tulsi is a shitstain of a human, and needs to be primaried. If her district allowed for it, she would run as a far-right Q-anon candidate that even guys like Gym Jordan would think is a bit weird. Remember when she was the Bernie bros' queen? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 19, 2019 15:40
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chaffetz talking about the awfulness of the impeachment inquiry is pretty rich considering he retired from congress because he wouldn't have clinton to run constant ridiculous hearings about.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:40
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:
This is the fundamental logical mistake that all centrists and anyone who does the whole "choose the lesser of two evils" shtick. It's a false choice that contrasts the preferred option with oblivion; and then further expects to be applauded for the adultness of this thinking instead of having its selfish childishness mocked. No, the choice is not between enabling evil or being the cause of journalism death. The choice is between being an enabler for something evil or fighting for something better. Fight for something better, refuse to accept a lesser evil because it's the easy/convenient choice. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 15:43
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:They need to be nationalized. Nationalized means "under the control of someone like Trump" sooner or later. That hardly seems like an improvement. In fact that seems way worse. Better to create and enforce data exchange laws and standards so that you can "Facebook" without every using Facebook or Facebook making a cent off you. Nationalize, if you must, the underlying *infrastructure*, but not the service itself. Decentralize and allow competitors - and maybe require those competitors to be public works in some way, but not under the direct control of the national government.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:43
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Solaris 2.0 posted:“Kill Capitalism” isn’t a solution that fixes the problems of today tho. You still need to find a way to fund journalists and “destroy capitalism” isn’t going to keep them employed. A serious policy proposal is needed. This is a rather irritating intellectual copout that centrists frequently utilize; demand their interlocutor provide them with a detailed/itemized list of exactly how to fix every single problem and the timeline to implement those solutions before they are allowed to argue that being an enabler for evil is bad and you should stop doing it. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 15:45
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maybe this was posted late last night but lmfao https://twitter.com/AmbassadorRice/status/1185394028612706304
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Oct 19, 2019 15:48
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Prester Jane posted:This is a rather irritating intellectual copout that centrists frequently utilize; demand their interlocutor provide them with a detailed/itemized list of exactly how to fix every single problem and the timeline to implement those solutions before they are allowed to argue that being an enabler for evil is bad and you should stop doing it. I just want people to provide specific solutions for specific problems. Shouting “Destroy Capitalism, duh” is skipping a few steps in between. Also I’m not a centrist gently caress off with that poo poo. *edit* People have posted nationalizing / breaking up Facebook and regulating the ad-supported revenue of corporations like Google as a way to give power back to actual investigative journalists. That to me sounds like a good first step to solve a specific problem I posted. Solaris 2.0 fucked around with this message at 15:53 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 15:49
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eke out posted:maybe this was posted late last night but lmfao Like, TOTALLY guh-ross.
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Oct 19, 2019 15:50
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Solaris 2.0 posted:I just want people to provide specific solutions for specific problems. ....before they're allowed to argue against participating in a corrupt system. Also so long as journalism is forced to operate in a capitalist environment where it must compete for revenues thenn there is no possibility of promoting good/true journalism. That's why posters are arguing you have to destroy capitalism first- because they are correct. In the meantime you can choose not to participate in a corrupt system and be an enabler for evil. Edit: Solaris 2.0 posted:
I support breaking up a nationalizing Facebook and Google as well, but this would ultimately only be addressing a symptom and not the disease itself. And while would certainly improve journalism, it wouldn't address the underlying problems that brought us to our present state of affairs. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 15:51
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:We can't get rid of the idea of facebook and we can't allow a private monopoly to be that powerful. Nationalization is the only valid alternative. Over the long term there is no other alternative. How do you nationalize something like Facebook? How do we deal with a government controlled social network in a way that isn't incredibly dystopian? Don't get me wrong, I don't think private control is any better. I have no idea what the solution is, but "nationalize it" isn't a straightforward option in the way that it would be for almost anything else. Just to be clear, I'm generally all for nationalizing just about anything, but the idea of a government controlled social network even gives me pause.
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Oct 19, 2019 16:04
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GlyphGryph posted:Nationalized means "under the control of someone like Trump" sooner or later. That hardly seems like an improvement. In fact that seems way worse. In this case, the "infrastructure" is the network of connections of people approving connections with each other -- the digital network, not the physical one. You have to nationalize that because it's a natural monopoly. At that point you've functionally destroyed and nationalized Facebook as an entity, because there's nothing left for the company to sell and profit from. All their advertising is just digital billboards lining the side of the digital highway network they own. And yeah sometimes governments are bad that's not a valid argument unless you're a lolbertarian and want to replace the interstate highway system with toll roads. That's all this is, it's that simple. If the internet is an "information highway" network, then facebook is just a giant toll road capturing profit. We have to nationalize it under the same logic that leads the government to run other network monopolies, like highways, railways, electric power, etc. I mean poo poo look at how badly private electric networks are failing in california right now. Paradoxish posted:How do you nationalize something like Facebook? How do we deal with a government controlled social network in a way that isn't incredibly dystopian? Legislatively? You put together a set of proposed regulations, everyone votes on them, then government takes ownership of the network (paying investors and appropriate sum as it would be a taking) and simultaneously implements said regulations. It isn't as complicated as it seems and historically similar problems have been solved before. England once had a mostly private road system but it was nationalized and regulated by Parliament in the late 1800's. Plenty of nations have nationalized their health care networks and that was similarly complicated. We have hundreds of years of "common carrier" legal traditions and lots of very smart people have already written a lot about how we should regulate information exchange on the internet. It's absolutely a solvable problem. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Oct 19, 2019 |
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Oct 19, 2019 16:05
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GlyphGryph posted:Nationalized means "under the control of someone like Trump" sooner or later. That hardly seems like an improvement. In fact that seems way worse. wouldn't nationalizing the infrastructure give someone like trump control over the entire internet sooner or later bad news, there is no One Weird Trick (Republicans Hate Him) to take the politics out of political questions.
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Oct 19, 2019 16:05
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Yeowch!!! My Balls!!! posted:wouldn't nationalizing the infrastructure give someone like trump control over the entire internet sooner or later Think how hard you would slap someone who said we can't implement single payer because what if someone like Trump controlled the health care system don't be a lolbertarian people you all know better
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Oct 19, 2019 16:11
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Of course it didn't. We barely got through Friday, which is basically all Trump as hoping for. https://twitter.com/RichardEngel/status/1185570867495034880?s=20
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Oct 19, 2019 16:14
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I think the biggest issue behind the media today is just that it's been quietly monopolized by people with no interest in journalism. There are only a handful of ultra powerful companies with their fingers in the pie. The US has shown no interest in busting up these monopolies in a long time. Combined with a unique moment in history where the people in power now realize everything is held together with untested gentleman's agreements and it all just sucks. Honest to god if somebody started an aggressive grassroots journalism movemrnt it'd probably do pretty alright in this environment but I'm just not sure where to start with that.
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Oct 19, 2019 16:15
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:If you cut it into parts it'd just take longer for one of them to eat the others and become a monopoly again. AT&T says hi. 
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Oct 19, 2019 16:16
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Think how hard you would slap someone who said we can't implement single payer because what if someone like Trump controlled the health care system that was my joke, yes
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Oct 19, 2019 16:16
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