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Kaal posted:Apparently it's all being paid for by the North Carolina Railroad Company. Someone probably did a cost/benefit analysis showing that they'd get an ROI for the cost of raising the bridge in like three accidents
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Oct 22, 2019 14:55
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They already have a heavy steel beam in front of the bridge, so the bridge itself isn't damaged when trucks hit it. They can't be too aggressive with anti-truck measures because there's a turn right before the bridge used by large trucks. There's an FAQ on the website that answers all of these.
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Oct 22, 2019 15:03
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NightGyr posted:They already have a heavy steel beam in front of the bridge, so the bridge itself isn't damaged when trucks hit it. The last accident had an excavator sneak under the protective beam after hitting it, and then snap back up, whacking the actual bridge and making it move. It closed the bridge for repairs, and while they're repairing it they're raising the profile. If raising it saves them from having to do these repairs again for an extra couple years, it probably saves them money.
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Oct 22, 2019 15:09
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:The reasons are railroads not giving an absolute gently caress about anyone else. I’m honestly curious who’s paying for this and how long it took the railroad to finally approve. In a sane country, the solution to this would've been a court order saying "your bridge is a safety hazard and will be demolished in 30 days" before it caused daily accidents for years "But that would cost the railroad money" as though they don't have Scrooge McDuck amounts of it to burn making their infrastructure not actively dangerous Devor posted:The last accident had an excavator sneak under the protective beam after hitting it, and then snap back up, whacking the actual bridge and making it move. It closed the bridge for repairs, and while they're repairing it they're raising the profile. Eventually it's getting hit by something big enough to actually take it out, maybe then we'll get a real fix. Javid fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Oct 22, 2019 |
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Oct 22, 2019 19:50
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Javid posted:In a sane country, the solution to this would've been a court order saying "your bridge is a safety hazard and will be demolished in 30 days" before it caused daily accidents for years Guarantee you that the railroad either owns the right-of-way, or owns an easement to have that bridge there. They don't build infrastructure that requires sweeping 10,000' radii and gradual grades without knowing that the railroad can be there for the foreseeable future. It's on the local DOT to remedy an unsafe roadway, and it probably fears a backlash from locals who don't want to lose the access by closing it for good. The local DOT could pay the railroad to raise the crossing, but they don't want to because there's an alternate route, and raising it to 13'-6" would mean now you're touching at least three structures Javid posted:Eventually it's getting hit by something big enough to actually take it out, maybe then we'll get a real fix. This is that chance - they're modifying the grade of the railroad, and replacing the girders on the bridge (or perhaps just modifying the abutment). If the local DOT was going to chime in and find some money to help fix it properly, now would be the chance.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:10
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Javid posted:In a sane country, the solution to this would've been a court order saying "your bridge is a safety hazard and will be demolished in 30 days" before it caused daily accidents for years There's nothing sane about that at all. It's honestly kind of bizarre because there's plenty of other places around the country and the world where there's old bridges with low clearances and they simply don't get that level of morons smashing their vehicles into them. Because it isn't a safety hazard, the apparent epidemic of blind people driving large trucks around Durham is the safety hazard.
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Oct 22, 2019 20:16
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Entropist posted:That doesn't make any sense to me? Do they not measure infractions at the stop line in other countries? That is crazy. What if you get blocked by another vehicle from leaving the intersection although it was green when you entered it, you get a red light ticket? From what I've gathered, in the U S the traffic regulations differ by state. I'm not sure what country you're in so when you say "other countries" I'm not sure what you're asking. Red light cameras seem like a really bad idea if there is no human reviewing the pictures before the ticket is sent out.
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Oct 22, 2019 22:06
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I'm in the Netherlands, and our automatic red light cameras are quite uncontroversial because they only activate if you cross the stop bar while the light is red, pretty much. It is measured with two detection points (one just after the stop bar, and one a bit further on) and only if you cross both detection points while the light is red, you get an automatic ticket. With the two points they can also measure speed. Our yellow times are sufficient I guess, though I'm not sure if there is any law mandating a minimum. The only issue with this setup I hear is that tickets get sent to operators of emergency vehicles automatically, but they don't have to pay them if they were running with lights. Otherwise people seem generally happy about them.
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Oct 23, 2019 00:41
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:From what I've gathered, in the U S the traffic regulations differ by state. I'm not sure what country you're in so when you say "other countries" I'm not sure what you're asking. they differ by city and state, wish some requiring human review and others waiting for you to challenge it before it gets reviewed, and a few outright banning them. tampa banned them(because they were caught deliberately timing lights so it was almost impossible not to run, according to the judge) but uses them anyway
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Oct 23, 2019 00:47
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There's nothing wrong with automated redlight cameras: they can be easily set up to improve safety and deter offenders in a transparent way - and offer courts ample opportunity for human review. The issue is mostly with privatizing municipal ordinance enforcement. Americans just need to stop grabbing at every cookie jar.
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Oct 23, 2019 01:20
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Yeah, I don't think really anyone has a problem with red light cameras in theory. The problem is that in practice, at least in America, they've been almost 100% implemented with a goal of making money rather than improving safety. Both the city and the inevitable private contractor operating the system are driven to ensure that violation numbers remain high. Yellow lights get shortened, tolerances are set as tight as possible so that legitimate right-on-reds get flagged, etc. They don't actually want to stop red-light running, they want to make it easy to do accidentally so they can profit. I think if they were actually used as it's always claimed people would have a much higher opinion of them. Unfortunately, 'murica...
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Oct 23, 2019 04:08
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wolrah posted:Yeah, I don't think really anyone has a problem with red light cameras in theory. pretty much this. The part that upsets me the states that do an auto-issue of the ticket count on the citizen to stop and go "hey wait" instead of being unjustly punished, and even then you have to fight against a bullshit scam being literally run by the courts as they exist in america, they aren't a tool for safety by any stretch.
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Oct 23, 2019 05:00
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RFC2324 posted:pretty much this. The part that upsets me the states that do an auto-issue of the ticket count on the citizen to stop and go "hey wait" instead of being unjustly punished, and even then you have to fight against a bullshit scam being literally run by the courts And because they're used that way in America, and American culture has spread globally to many English speaking countries, it means that there is an extra cultural barrier to using them in other countries.
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Oct 23, 2019 08:51
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Relevant article: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/21/traffic_lights_changed/ I don't know what level of influence ITE recommendations have on actual policy, but it seems like this is a positive development.
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Oct 23, 2019 14:54
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wolrah posted:Relevant article: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/10/21/traffic_lights_changed/ Wait, is there an echo in here?
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Oct 23, 2019 16:22
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Speaking of funky roads, check out this interchange: https://maps.google.com?q=39.7176944,-104.9500278&hl=en-US&gl=us We’re actually finishing up the design on this right now, and it’s going to be a lot more streamlined
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Oct 23, 2019 16:35
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:Wait, is there an echo in here? Derp, didn't remember this discussion went back to the previous page.
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Oct 23, 2019 17:04
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As I've said before, the American problem with red light cameras has nothing to do with traffic enforcement and everything to do with being a corrupt country. Why can yellow light times even be adjusted in the first place? In the UK they're set according to the speed of the road - I think 3sec is standard for 30mph. However, I hadn't realised before that for some reason they catch people who have already crossed the stop line before the light turns red??? How is that remotely justifiable? It seems like the sort of bizarre thinking that could only come from imagining that every road is a million feet wide and pedestrians don't exist. What if you're making a left turn and the stream of oncoming traffic doesn't stop? What if someone else does some bizarre manoeuvre and blocks your exit? What if a climate protest suddenly materialises ahead of you? I really hope I'm misunderstanding here but I genuinely do have no idea how this is meant to work.
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Oct 23, 2019 18:36
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pkells posted:Speaking of funky roads, check out this interchange: Is this the wrong link? This is the one that dude shared upthread Are you sockpuppeting to brag about your cool intersection projects Because you should, that intersection should not have been allowed to exist
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Oct 23, 2019 18:38
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That is quite the pedestrian slayer.
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Oct 23, 2019 19:41
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Devor posted:Is this the wrong link? This is the one that dude shared upthread Weird. It’s supposed to be a different intersection. Must be some weird mobile issue. Maybe this works: https://goo.gl/maps/x7pgt2QUQWcWCwPa7
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Oct 23, 2019 20:27
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pkells posted:Weird. It’s supposed to be a different intersection. Must be some weird mobile issue. Maybe this works: Thanks, I hate it Why did they try to maintain K Ave as such a high priority movement with free turns It's like they reinvented half of a diverging diamond and put it on a curve. Small blessing that there are no sidewalks.
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Oct 23, 2019 20:33
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Devor posted:Thanks, I hate it No clue. I’m guessing it has to do with the big plastic/polymers factory down the road. They’ve got a big rail yard there, and I’m assuming a lot of truck traffic. I was brought on to this late in the game, so I don’t know much of the background.
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Oct 23, 2019 20:58
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Entropist posted:I'm in the Netherlands, and our automatic red light cameras are quite uncontroversial because they only activate if you cross the stop bar while the light is red, pretty much. It is measured with two detection points (one just after the stop bar, and one a bit further on) and only if you cross both detection points while the light is red, you get an automatic ticket. With the two points they can also measure speed. Our yellow times are sufficient I guess, though I'm not sure if there is any law mandating a minimum. It also seems like turning right at red lights is a uniquely north american thing.
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Oct 23, 2019 21:07
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RTOR is amazing and should be a thing everywhere
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Oct 23, 2019 21:27
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pkells posted:Weird. It’s supposed to be a different intersection. Must be some weird mobile issue. Maybe this works: This intersection is terrifying enough, but I'm even more baffled by the ghost roundabout a thousand feet north. Edit: Oh that road just goes completely the wrong way, I guess they picked up the wrong plans off something. But it's still a roundabout that intersects with nothing... Dylan16807 fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Oct 23, 2019 |
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Oct 23, 2019 21:29
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Javid posted:RTOR is amazing and should be a thing everywhere One weird old trick to improve intersection Level of Service Pedestrians hate it!
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Oct 23, 2019 21:32
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Dylan16807 posted:This intersection is terrifying enough, but I'm even more baffled by the ghost roundabout a thousand feet north. Me too. It’s new, because if you look at the street view, it’s still a dirt road as of 2014. Apparently it has something to do with the Amazon warehouse up the road or something? Apparently they’re developing south. But it doesn’t matter, because it won’t connect to this interchange. Old Pine Plain Rd is being ripped up. I’m assuming their trucks will go north to I-77. I’ve been working this for the last two months, but I’ve never zoomed out far enough to notice that, and it wasn’t in our original survey. So I guess I was as surprised as you were.
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Oct 23, 2019 21:41
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Javid posted:RTOR is amazing and should be a thing everywhere You know what's even better than RTOR? Signalized intersections that direct traffic without conflict. RTOR probably ranks up there with poorly signed reversible lane schedules as traffic ideas that cause as much slowdown from near-collisions as they actually help.
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Oct 23, 2019 22:53
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AreWeDrunkYet posted:It also seems like turning right at red lights is a uniquely north american thing. But it needs a specially marked red light.  And studies show the idea sucks, especially for pedestrians and cyclists. So they are being taken down after their peak.
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Oct 23, 2019 23:06
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that's because europeans (and new yorkers) don't understand that you're supposed to wait for peds before turning
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Oct 24, 2019 01:09
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Kaal posted:You know what's even better than RTOR? Signalized intersections that direct traffic without conflict. RTOR probably ranks up there with poorly signed reversible lane schedules as traffic ideas that cause as much slowdown from near-collisions as they actually help. Peanut President posted:that's because europeans (and new yorkers) don't understand that you're supposed to wait for peds before turning I guess Kaal is from NY, because I pretty much never see these issues. Both drivers and pedestrians know whats up and to watch out for each other during those spots, and the special cases(near schools etc) tend to end up with explicit restrictions.
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Oct 24, 2019 01:11
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RFC2324 posted:I guess Kaal is from NY, because I pretty much never see these issues. Both drivers and pedestrians know whats up and to watch out for each other during those spots, and the special cases(near schools etc) tend to end up with explicit restrictions. Ever since it was introduced in the US, RTOR laws have increased intersection pedestrian crashes by 60 percent and bike crashes by 100 percent. This isn't even news, the studies were clear on this when they were first done in the 1980s. At the end of the day, it turns out that when drivers need to look both left and right at the same time as they accelerate forward, they hit things! https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/05/15/its-time-for-cities-to-rethink-right-turns-on-red/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0022437582900019 Kaal fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 02:01
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Jonnty posted:However, I hadn't realised before that for some reason they catch people who have already crossed the stop line before the light turns red??? How is that remotely justifiable? It makes money. See also shortening the yellow light timing to produce more tickets, in several cases in violation of the law itself.
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Oct 24, 2019 02:06
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We don't have RTOR but we do have lights with arrows for each direction, so on big intersections there's just a right turn lane with a right turn light that's permanently green except when pedestrians want to cross.
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Oct 24, 2019 02:43
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Entropist posted:We don't have RTOR but we do have lights with arrows for each direction, so on big intersections there's just a right turn lane with a right turn light that's permanently green except when pedestrians want to cross. this is an elegant solution
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Oct 24, 2019 05:55
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Peanut President posted:that's because europeans (and new yorkers) don't understand that you're supposed to wait for peds before turning No, it's because it's difficult to spot objects off to the side and especially behind your corner pillars. Moreover, truck drivers in particular have huge blind spots to their left and right, where cyclists are routinely squashed to death on right turns. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV-rhiGRFTE Hippie Hedgehog fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 13:38
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Also statistically New Yorkers are actually better at this sort of thing than people from more rural areas like Wisconsin. Which makes absolute sense because urban drivers are more experienced with congestion and mix-modal traffic, and are also more likely to be driving smaller vehicles with better blind spots.
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Oct 24, 2019 14:12
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Kaal posted:Also statistically New Yorkers are actually better at this sort of thing than people from more rural areas like Wisconsin. Which makes absolute sense because urban drivers are more experienced with congestion and mix-modal traffic, and are also more likely to be driving smaller vehicles with better blind spots. I'd buy that, but otoh don't most new Yorkers not drive because of the traffic/decent public transit?
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Oct 24, 2019 14:25
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Do you know what also reduces the risk of cars hitting bikes and peds? Getting rid of the loving cars.
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Oct 24, 2019 14:26
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