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Hungry posted:I can feel it in me bones, today is the day my parents are going to try to justify voting Lib Dem. play them the jo swinson on sky news clip and ask them whether you need to hire the fumigator for their branes
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Nov 4, 2019 13:37
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Rustybear posted:He's really really salty about 'Corbyn Can't Win Here!', way more so than healthy scepticism. idk whether it's just general ageing lib dem-ism or he lost bigly on GE2017 or what. I do worry there is truth in the leader ratings thing, he has been following this stuff for a long time and made thousands betting on it. That said his Lib Dem credentials were close to non-existent for years but he has clearly become enthusiastic again more recently. You can tell Corbyn makes him angry by his mere existence so you know, working as intended.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:38
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Failed Imagineer posted:The "U gay?"-MT
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Nov 4, 2019 13:38
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Mr Phillby posted:Feeling encouraged to post more and lurk less. You all brought this upon yourself. Added to the list of UKMT success stories. Be gay, do socialism, comrade!
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Nov 4, 2019 13:39
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When my friend came out to his parents his dad's old fashioned grasp of language ran straight into his modern & supportive attitude, resulting in a text that read "you know you never have to hide anything from me and your mum, we will always love you no matter what. It's up to you if you've decided you want to be a nonce - nothing to do with us!"
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Nov 4, 2019 13:39
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https://twitter.com/Ciara87C/status/1190799037806600192?s=19 https://twitter.com/TheUKMovement1/status/1191278818327252994?s=19  UK can't die quickly enough imo
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Nov 4, 2019 13:40
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Sanford posted:When my friend came out to his parents his dad's old fashioned grasp of language ran straight into his modern & supportive attitude, resulting in a text that read "you know you never have to hide anything from me and your mum, we will always love you no matter what. It's up to you if you've decided you want to be a nonce - nothing to do with us!" lol jesus
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Nov 4, 2019 13:41
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Not a UK resident, but my dads side of the family has a fair few brexitheads. I've usually been pretty silent about politics due to feeling too uninformed to argue with most of the shite they post, but lurking here for the past several years has started to let me argue for turning some of their frustrations towards the tories and rich gobshites, rather than THE MUZZIES. Their comment pages are usually filled with echo chamber poo poo but I've had the occasional concession from the family members themselves, so thanks for putting my lefty leanings into strong enough context to actually try and vocalize it!
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Nov 4, 2019 13:42
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ronya posted:"Ability to pay" is where all tax avoidance schemes live... an, ahem, dogmatic adherence to this formula would not be able to distinguish between a going concern with high operating costs and hence no ability to pay, vs a tax shelter vehicle that exists to accumulate capital gains That is the problem with formulae, and a human looking at the situation might have a different take on it. But then we encounter the problem of human bias. Formulae, of course, are not biased except towards those who write them. So I think that all of this a question we as a society should ask ourselves: How do we practically implement communist ideals, now that we have decided that we should? As for the exact level of taxation that is optimal, that can be considered once we know what a post-capitalism society will look like. You need good data to draw good conclusions. Aim high. 
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Nov 4, 2019 13:42
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Failed Imagineer posted:https://twitter.com/TheUKMovement1/status/1191278818327252994?s=19 Ratjaculation posted:lol jesus
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Nov 4, 2019 13:42
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Sanford posted:When my friend came out to his parents his dad's old fashioned grasp of language ran straight into his modern & supportive attitude, resulting in a text that read "you know you never have to hide anything from me and your mum, we will always love you no matter what. It's up to you if you've decided you want to be a nonce - nothing to do with us!" Got to say this legit terrifies me and I'm not even old, just cis. I want to be supportive of LGBTQ+ folks but I'm constantly worried my own ignorance will lead to me accidentally saying something hurtful.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:43
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Ratjaculation posted:lol jesus Maybe he came out as Tory
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Nov 4, 2019 13:44
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Ratjaculation posted:lol jesus He thought it just meant "a gay" because the terms were used so interchangeably where he worked! He sadly died last year but Stuart could always make him go a deep shade of crimson by saying "hey dad remember when you accused me of being a nonce?" StarkingBarfish posted:Got to say this legit terrifies me and I'm not even old, just cis. I want to be supportive of LGBTQ+ folks but I'm constantly worried my own ignorance will lead to me accidentally saying something hurtful. I feel this way about "queer". To my mind it belongs in the same stable as poofter and shirtlifter, and no matter how much I'm told it's been reclaimed I can't ever see myself using it, just in case.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:44
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StarkingBarfish posted:Got to say this legit terrifies me and I'm not even old, just cis. I want to be supportive of LGBTQ+ folks but I'm constantly worried my own ignorance will lead to me accidentally saying something hurtful. Saying something insensitive out of ignorance and apologising when corrected won't even caused a batted eyelid.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:45
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If my kid came out as a Tory I would hand them a bill for all the poo poo I've done for them out of love up until then.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:47
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The MEP elections in May were a complete farce. Insane that they're apparently the gold-standard bellwether for pollsters and tv talking heads. They weren't supposed to take place at all; neither the tories nor labour mounted serious campaigns; the whole thing devolved into a brexit bore-fest with a 37% turnout; they were comprehensively won by a single-issue party that didn't exist six weeks prior and has a theoretical high-water mark of ~5 MPs. At the same time as the country was apparently comprehensively rejecting Corbyn etc. and at the absolute height of Farage's media exposure Labour actually fought and won a by-election in a labour leave seat, against a BXP candidate who the tory party had stood aside for; this of course will never ever be mentioned again.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:47
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Sanford posted:I feel this way about "queer". To my mind it belongs in the same stable as poofter and shirtlifter, and no matter how much I'm told it's been reclaimed I can't ever see myself using it, just in case. Never even understood shirtlifter tbh. Can't imagine anyone ever using it without getting the piss ripped out of them
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Nov 4, 2019 13:47
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Tesseraction posted:If my kid came out as a Tory I would hand them a bill for all the poo poo I've done for them out of love up until then. nonce would be the correct vernacular in that situation
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Nov 4, 2019 13:48
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Failed Imagineer posted:Never even understood shirtlifter tbh. Can't imagine anyone ever using it without getting the piss ripped out of them "oi ya pants haver!" "yu fukken hatman"
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Nov 4, 2019 13:48
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Ratjaculation posted:nonce would be the correct vernacular in that situation Tesseraction posted:Maybe he came out as Tory
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Nov 4, 2019 13:49
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Mr Phillby posted:Feeling encouraged to post more and lurk less. You all brought this upon yourself. Congrats on posting more and double congrats on coming out comrade!
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Nov 4, 2019 13:49
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Zalakwe posted:I do worry there is truth in the leader ratings thing, he has been following this stuff for a long time and made thousands betting on it. I do too, which is why I bother to parse the 'beryl, BERYL! that corbynazi has DONE it again!!!' for actual insight. Ranting on the timeline like this does makes me question the judgement tho. https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/1190778168858304513?s=20
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Nov 4, 2019 13:50
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quote:Instead, party members overwhelmingly supported a motion backed by Mr Corbyn which commits the party to a second referendum but will see it decide on its campaigning position after the election. Arguably the head-to-head format of the debates on Nov 19 benefit LDEM and SNP (as long as the latter two carefully continue to maintain how enthusiastic they would be to participate in debates to which they won't be invited - they will certainly turn down smaller events organized just for the minor parties, unless the forum is confirmed to be a friendly one). The reason is simple: Johnson is certain to bang on about his Great New Deal. Corbyn was a tossup previously but it looks like he is confirming that the Clause V meeting will not be allowed to openly contradict Conference, which confirms that the party will go to the polls with "referendum on a credible Leave option or no Brexit". With Johnson and Corbyn on a national stage pitching their Leave proposals, that would fuel furious remainers for the week following the debate
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Nov 4, 2019 13:51
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Tesseraction posted:"oi ya pants haver!" "yu fukken hatman" Reminds me of a mate who was at a street letterbox, when a car went by and someone shouted "posting a letter, f****t" at him. The mind truly boggles.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:51
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When I was 13-18 I used to use 'gay' as a derogative because, and this isn't an excuse, everyone else did, I almost everyone a similar in this thread did the same. It was everywhere and looking back abhorrent, and I hate being a part of something that caused so much pain to so many.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:52
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Braggart posted:That is the problem with formulae, and a human looking at the situation might have a different take on it. But then we encounter the problem of human bias. Formulae, of course, are not biased except towards those who write them. Lenin, State and Revolution, Ch5: quote:Accounting and control--that is mainly what is needed for the "smooth working", for the proper functioning, of the first phase of communist society. All citizens are transformed into hired employees of the state, which consists of the armed workers. All citizens becomes employees and workers of a single countrywide state “syndicate”. All that is required is that they should work equally, do their proper share of work, and get equal pay; the accounting and control necessary for this have been simplified by capitalism to the utmost and reduced to the extraordinarily simple operations--which any literate person can perform--of supervising and recording, knowledge of the four rules of arithmetic, and issuing appropriate receipts. Let's say that he was a touch optimistic...
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Nov 4, 2019 13:52
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Didn't expect to read a genuinely cute and heartwarming story about a gay guy being called a nonce today lol
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Nov 4, 2019 13:53
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Don't expose me as the Jim Davidson of this thread, I've hid it so well.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:53
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Also looking at the etymology of nonce (in terms of cryptography) and the insult, interesting: nonce as in a once-time use comes from "than anes" (to/for the one (occasion/instance)) which ended up contracting to nonse/nonce nonce as in paedo from either nonse as in nonsense or linguistic shift from nance, as in nancy boy.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:54
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Now we're talking nonce-sense
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Nov 4, 2019 13:55
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Things more interesting in northern ireland today, sf pulling out of 3 seats. East Belfast, South Belfast & North Down North Down is kind of a weird one, pretty sure they are doing it as an image thing, they are doing it to support the independent remainer unionist incumbent (41%) and are also trying to get unionist votes in north belfast after the uup were intimidated out of putting up a candidate. East Belfast is 55.8% DUP currently but the uup are standing, if they split the vote enough then the Alliance party could maybe get back in. South Belfast will be interesting, with SF pulling out you'd think this would give the SDLP a fairly clear run but Alliance is determined to still run a (former Tory!) candidate.
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Nov 4, 2019 13:56
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Borrovan posted:One of the hardest parts of actually implementing the kinds of strong environmental protections we need is the whole turkeys/Christmas thing: as soon as anyone starts doing it in a way that actually interferes with people's livelihood/lifestyle (which we kind of need to do), it's absolutely trivial for opportunist politicians to start saying ENVIRONMENTALIST POLITICIANS DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU, and you lose the next election in a landslide. A model of environmental protection that you can't actually implement in practice is a bad model. Carborundum posted:I think this is something the Green movement struggles with sometimes. I think the point is that any transition to a Green economy (hate that term) has to be a just transition and can't leave behind the large sectors of society that are going to have to fundamentally shift; from people who work on oil rigs to dairy farmers. Look at the yellow vest movement for an example of what happens when misguided environmental policies come up against people's daily struggle. A policy of 'save the planet at all costs' is not going to be popular among the people who are going to have to pay those costs - which will be the poor and vulnerable and the working class unless the transition is focused on them from the start.  Agreed that the Greens are not exactly making that criticism in the best of faith, and they'd have trouble building consensus for their policies. I also agree that unions are almost certainly necessary to get this process started, and probably the best way. I still think it's worth considering the potential tensions, though. In the short term, it's easy to imagine restructuring a number of jobs in a climate / environment direction - fine, unions will be on board with that. But in the medium-to-long term, we're going to need to start drawing back on lifestyle emissions - availability of certain foods, removing non-electric private transport, etc. This is probably going to hit living standards in certain ways - can't always guarantee buses at the correct time, unlike car ownership! Given that this will negatively affect union members, which way do the unions go? If it turns out that there aren't enough jobs to replace a given industry, what do the unions for that industry do? With just transitions and paying the costs, the people who are going to pay the greatest costs of climate change are the Global South (and it isn't even close!) Any just transition worth the word "just" is going to have to take that into account and, as you say, focus on them from the start. Fortunately, the Labour Green New Deal's policy platform does that (nice to see). But, again, what happens in practice when unions are inevitably forced into choosing between the just transition and the transition that's easier on their members? Do you try and build consciousness in the members to explain why their lives will be materially worse or do you throw the Global South under the bus? yet again Large institutions tend to have inertia and be resistant to change from within, so I guess what I'm building towards is my concern about what's needed to influence unions and their membership into supporting a truly global "just transition" (even though it may demand a lot of people) - extra-union institutions and organizing, metasystems, whatever; I have no idea needs to be done to make it work, or whether that sort of thinking is already taking place? Anyway. It's a fucker of a problem, and I can't see any way other than cooperation with the unions to at least get things started down that road. Unless and until Climate Leviathan arises, taking the decision mercifully out of our hands
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Nov 4, 2019 13:58
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Tesseraction posted:play them the jo swinson on sky news clip and ask them whether you need to hire the fumigator for their branes Sometimes I think that's what they need. I don't get it, they've both voted Labour their entire lives, had public-sector careers, sometimes my dad walks around in a tshirt with NVA insignia on it purely to start arguments with anti-communists, but Brexit has hosed them up.
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Nov 4, 2019 14:00
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ronya posted:Lenin, State and Revolution, Ch5: Optimism is good, as is practical thinking. Would you like to turn your analytical mind to solving these issues when the opportunity arises? I've already got Jaeluni down as Bus Queen* * Does not imply that actual monarchs existing is acceptable.
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Nov 4, 2019 14:02
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Failed Imagineer posted:Now we're talking nonce-sense Is Peter O'Hanraohanrahan cultural appropriation? Hungry posted:Sometimes I think that's what they need. I don't get it, they've both voted Labour their entire lives, had public-sector careers, sometimes my dad walks around in a tshirt with NVA insignia on it purely to start arguments with anti-communists, but Brexit has hosed them up. "This is your brain. This is your brain, on fubpee" [picture of hundreds of baby spiders on their mother's back]
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Nov 4, 2019 14:03
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Mr Phillby posted:Feeling encouraged to post more and lurk less. You all brought this upon yourself. Congratulations on becoming part of the queer agenda comrade.
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Nov 4, 2019 14:05
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In the spirit of lurkers posting more, The Inverted World by Christopher Priest was mentioned in the previous thread. I have just finished reading it. It was good.
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Nov 4, 2019 14:06
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josh04 posted:https://twitter.com/eddiemarsan/status/1191148409450881025 Regardless of what people say Corbyn wants, isn't labour's policy on Brexit to negotiate a deal then have a 2nd ref? I didn't imagine that did I? Isn't this the same policy as Lib Dems?
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Nov 4, 2019 14:09
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Bundy posted:e: I've filled that form out, Comrade Fakename does not have Plat so have pinged them on Discord. Unfortunately Slack has a limit of nine people in a chat, and the the Secret Goon Cru chat is now full. If someone who knows more about Slack than I do can convince me that I can do it without the higher-ups knowing about it, I might look into making a private channel.
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Nov 4, 2019 14:10
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alphabettitouretti posted:Regardless of what people say Corbyn wants, isn't labour's policy on Brexit to negotiate a deal then have a 2nd ref? I didn't imagine that did I? I think the Lib Dem policy is either to just have a 2nd ref (with no plan for if they lose it) or to just cancel it outright. That I am not sure which is a bit 
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