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freeman posted:I don't blame Jamal for getting paranoid about it. Not his fault that editing tries to suggest a potential girls alliance what seems like every season even if it almost never happens. Jamal thought Dean was voting Noura and it was going to be 6-1. With the idol on Noura it’s 0-0 and on the revote the 5 Vokais can vote Karishma. That said it is kind of needlessly risky. If Dean is playing this idol he obviously doesn’t trust the Noura plan and if he doesn’t trust the Noura plan there’s no guarantee he still votes Noura. I guess Jamal was banking on Dean thinking his idol play was a “I probably don’t need this but just in case...” kind of play.
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Nov 7, 2019 15:35
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Propaganda Machine posted:Okay, can somebody tell me why knowing an ex is meaningful? Because I don't have much fondness for my exes, and I'd play it up if I had to on Survivor but it would mean zilch to me. You're looking at it from a perspective of normal life instead of a perspective of a cutthroat game where you literally have less than a dozen options of people to talk to and work with. It's a common connection and those can be very hard to find in the situation they're in. Propaganda Machine posted:Maybe I'm a bad fan, but I hadn't even noticed Jack until tonight. But from what I saw, he was an excellent pre-merge target. He got about two seconds of screentime tonight and I was charmed. If (and only if) Kellee's singular goal with her move tonight was to get Jack gone I would be totally on board. Again, I think she was talking herself into things and didn't have the clear goal of getting Jack gone. It's a bit like she made a good move in spite of herself. Did you miss the whole racial divide thing between him and Jamal last week then or  I'm at a point where I think Jamal has a good chance to make it to final tribal but get shredded by the jury. He can still win if he's against the right people though. Karishma is a lock for final tribal goat now that they hit merge.
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Nov 7, 2019 15:52
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mancalamania posted:Jamal thought Dean was voting Noura and it was going to be 6-1. With the idol on Noura it’s 0-0 and on the revote the 5 Vokais can vote Karishma. I understand abstractly "Jamal thought Dean was voting Noura" but, also, very much, Jamal thought that Dean was dumb enough to idol out Noura instead of literally anybody else??
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Nov 7, 2019 16:11
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Dean doesn’t like Noura, and Jack and Jamal floated the idea of working with him so presumably they’re lower risk targets.
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Nov 7, 2019 16:14
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It was also shown that the Vokai did a pretty good job of pulling the wool over Dean's eyes, so it was fair enough to guess he'd vote Noura. Having said that, if you're not going to play the idol on yourself in that situation, I'm not sure why you wouldn't just save it for another time. One guess is that TC exposed Noura as a shaky alliance member to Jamal, and he wanted to rectify that. I'm also wondering if getting called out for the womens' alliance comments threw him off kilter and caused him to act impulsively. I'm still going back and forth on Kellee's move(s). I think I can more or less get behind the overall plan. Dean's a good ally for her to have going forward: he's a free agent, not really a strategic-seeming player, serves as a shield, and plus they've got that mutual friend, which like Ice Phoenix mentioned is kind of a big deal. At the same time, Jamal and Jack are a formidable duo, and I agree with her comment that Jamal probably doesn't want to go to the end with her. Plus, I think tribal lines are mostly done and dusted. In a Dean-boot scenario, OG Vokai (+ Karishma) vs OG Lairo might hold up for one vote, long enough to get rid of a universal threat like Elaine, but after that it's 9 vs 3 and I don't think it's safe to bet on a straight Pagonging considering the recent Survivor propensity for trigger happy big moves, voting blocks, etc. I have more of an issue with the Noura contingency plan. I get that it potentially throws shade on other players and protects against Dean putting a vote on Kellee, but if you think the latter is even a remote possibility, don't you just scrap the plan altogether? I think Kellee probably hedged a little too much. If you're going to put your faith in Dean, don't half-rear end it - let the plan unfold without involving Noura and setting yourself up for significant risk. I don't consider getting out Jack over Dean an overplay, but the contingency plan seems to have been one.
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Nov 7, 2019 20:17
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In fairness we don't KNOW Kellee let Noura in. It would seem like the simplest explanation for her vote is that Kellee involved her but we don't know that for sure or how deep she involved her if she did. I think the best case scenario for Kellee is she might have told Noura "I'm worried Dean might have an idol, maybe one of us should put a vote one someone else just in case" and then Noura volunteered to do it. In that scenario she can theoretically just say "good thing you did that" and kind of play to Noura's ego that it was her foresight that proved right. But that's probably a best case scenario. Noura definitely seems like she could blow this if she knows too much or doesn't and feels like she's getting played. We shall see. Fast Luck posted:Also funny was Elaine on the other side seeing the obviously wrong pieces and the people sitting out with a nice view screaming her down aggressively.
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Nov 7, 2019 22:13
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But Kellee specifically mentioned throwing Noura some bread crumbs. We didn't see it happen because the editors don't want to ruin tribal, but one way or the other Kellee had everything to do with how Noura voted, whether she said stuff to her or had Dean say stuff to her.
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Nov 7, 2019 22:15
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Well yeah, I think Kellee had to have said something. But I think there's theoretically a lot of different ways that might have happened or could play out. We could see Noura figure out Kellee knew Dean had an idol and be upset that Kellee manipulated her, we could see Noura let in on a bigger plan and be proud as Kellee's co conspirator, we could see Noura just totally played into thinking it was her idea that paid off. I think whether or not the Noura contingency plan was worth it is just a total wildcard right now based on how Kellee approached it and how Noura reacts.
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Nov 7, 2019 22:42
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Now that she survived until the merge, there is a great chance that Karishma is with us until the F3
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Nov 7, 2019 23:08
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Post-press: Holmes: When you get to the immunity challenge and see that Jason is gone, did you think that would strengthen your classic Vokai bonds? Nichting: We’re at this thing and we see that he’s gone and Tommy, Lauren, and Dan are looking at us, pleading for us to throw the challenge. I’m pretty sure Kellee wanted to throw the challenge and Janet thought about it. But Jamal and I were like, “No.” Because the only way to guarantee that you’re moving forward is to win. This game has to be selfish. It has to be about us. If one of them is gone, we can still figure it out. Hahaha.
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Nov 8, 2019 00:10
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Probable spoiler in the latest boot's exit interview: Q: You mentioned your plan was get to the final four with Jamal and then battle it out. Were there any other people that you were looking at like, :Hey, these are the two people I want to be sitting next to at the end?” A: I think Survivor is a very stage-like game in that you can’t plan that far in advance because you have to get there. And that will always be my big critique of Kellee’s big move on me. I’m like “Kellee, you were so concerned about me at the end,” because that’s kind of what she was talking about. You didn’t see it, but I learned later on that was what she was worried about it. Hard to read that as anything other than them talking it out on the jury together.
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Nov 8, 2019 00:26
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Or someone (Dean or Noura) told him that's why Kellee wanted him gone.
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Nov 8, 2019 00:34
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Or they talk about it on Ponderosa after FTC (they don't hop on a plane right after), or at any time in the past three months
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Nov 8, 2019 00:43
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IcePhoenix posted:Did you miss the whole racial divide thing between him and Jamal last week then or I was actually on a call with a friend while I watched last week (bad fan). I didn't know who Jack was, but I sort of narrated that whole scene to my buddy because I felt such immense fremdschämen watching it. I wasn't posting but I'm with whoever pointed out that we didn't really see Jack apologizing in any meaningful way, but Jamal seemed satisfied so we should probably go with that. Anyway, I guess it illustrates Jack's social prowess if he can say poo poo like that and mollify the situation anyway. I'm genuinely enjoying this season a lot more than anything in recent memory, but the shittiness of some recent seasons definitely put me on autopilot and made me less attentive than I used to be. For instance, I've all but quit listening to Rob's podcast (though I'll have to check out the Coach episode Sweet Jahasus mentioned; love me some Coach). But listening to overanalysis is pretty much how I kept everybody's names straight in the past. Who do you think Jamal wins against? Other than Karishma (who I think would go into FTC with a very solid case).
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Nov 8, 2019 01:12
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Propaganda Machine posted:I was actually on a call with a friend while I watched last week (bad fan). I didn't know who Jack was, but I sort of narrated that whole scene to my buddy because I felt such immense fremdschämen watching it. I wasn't posting but I'm with whoever pointed out that we didn't really see Jack apologizing in any meaningful way, but Jamal seemed satisfied so we should probably go with that. Anyway, I guess it illustrates Jack's social prowess if he can say poo poo like that and mollify the situation anyway. Assuming Karishma is already there I think he'd win right now against Noura, Tommy, Lauren, or Dan. But between then and now I can see at least the first three passing him (Noura seems like someone who can fly under the radar and win a couple of immunities and she's shown at least a little bit of strategic sense). Also I really want to know what Karishma's case is because I'm reminded of Julie last season where people kept trying to tell me why she could win even though I kept calling her the goatiest goat and then she got zero votes at FTC.
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Nov 8, 2019 02:28
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Jamal's a tough guy to read because while he seems like a pretty decent guy its also been consistently obvious throughout the season that he's arrogant as all hell and rubs people the wrong way. It happened early in the season when Molly was blindsided. It happened this week with Jack going. He keeps surviving it and his allies keep going home but its hard to tell if he's just the guy they basically have pegged as a goat or if he's talking his way out of stuff or if he's just lucky or what. Like if I was a "edit reader" I might think the editors have purposely repeatedly shown him rubbing people wrong to set up for him losing a Final Tribal because he's too arrogant or something. Because they could have easily left out him "mansplaining" fire starting to Kellee and it wouldn't have really changed anything about the episode's story. They're making a point to tell us Jamal annoys people. But they're also doing it while showing him to be a thoughtful guy. So its weird.
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Nov 8, 2019 02:35
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Propaganda Machine posted:Which is cool until you have a meal that isn't rice and sit down to think about it. The preview was nuts because it had to be, but Kellee is facing a merge down in original numbers. Getting rid of an original Vokai was short-sighted at best if you're considering your options between two fun and charismatic guys, one of whom you have a bond with, the other of whom- I have a lot of fondness for most of my exes. Most of them are just cool people I liked to talk to, be around, and got along with, which is why I dated them in the first place. An ex is theoretically, at the very worst, someone who knows you much better than the average person and even in a bad-breakup scenario sometimes the devil you know is better than strange devils you only know are out to get you. However, someone knowing my ex wouldn't necessarily mean poo poo to me. Like, if it was an ex who I knew to be a great person, then perhaps the association would reflect well on that person but in general friend-of-an-ex seems like a pretty weak association. Almost makes me think it's just a proxy to say they themselves are vague acquaintances. STAC Goat posted:They're making a point to tell us Jamal annoys people. But they're also doing it while showing him to be a thoughtful guy. So its weird. He seems well prepared, he thought about what he wanted to use any soapbox opportunity he got for. He chose thoughtful, relevant, resonant topics from the good side. Heck, being genuine about it is also a threat in and of itself. Can't argue against the points without being a huge tool. If he was already annoying in other ways, his thoughtfulness doesn't give as much purchase for character or personality attacks. I guess the natural pivot would be to use it against him as it being too agreeable, but that doesn't work if he's simultaneously kind of generally annoying to everyone. He also seems genuine on those things, don't get a vibe of him just putting on airs. How do edit-readers fare anyway? Are there any superfans-of-superfans who make charts tracking how many points certain superfans get right on their charts and predictions? Khanstant fucked around with this message at 03:31 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 03:12
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IcePhoenix posted:Assuming Karishma is already there I think he'd win right now against Noura, Tommy, Lauren, or Dan. But between then and now I can see at least the first three passing him (Noura seems like someone who can fly under the radar and win a couple of immunities and she's shown at least a little bit of strategic sense). Karishma's best defense is 'I was targeted the entire game and I survived' but uh, I don't think that really flies especially when she had no agency in surviving. Also there's an entire merge left so it's pretty hard to say who anyone beats at the moment. I mean, I'd count Karishma out but anyone left still has a lot of game left to play.
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Nov 8, 2019 03:20
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Khanstant posted:I have a lot of fondness for most of my exes. Most of them are just cool people I liked to talk to, be around, and got along with, which is why I dated them in the first place. An ex is theoretically, at the very worst, someone who knows you much better than the average person and even in a bad-breakup scenario sometimes the devil you know is better than strange devils you only know are out to get you. However, someone knowing my ex wouldn't necessarily mean poo poo to me. Like, if it was an ex who I knew to be a great person, then perhaps the association would reflect well on that person but in general friend-of-an-ex seems like a pretty weak association. Almost makes me think it's just a proxy to say they themselves are vague acquaintances. Yeah, I feel like "ex" is one of those terms that can mean a whole lot to different people based on their experiences. For me it just means someone who I have a lot of shared experiences with, similar makeups and world views, mutual acquaintances, etc. Most of my exes got that way because first we were very close and compatible however it may have ended. So when Kellee says Dean is friends with her ex I take that to be short hand for them having some compatible stuff to bond over and a place to build some trust from. Hardly an unbreakable bond but some starting points and ice breakers. ApplesandOranges posted:Karishma's best defense is 'I was targeted the entire game and I survived' but uh, I don't think that really flies especially when she had no agency in surviving. Yeah, Karishma doesn't seem like much of a winner threat right now and I don't really see her turning it on based on what we've seen from her, but its still early enough in the game that her problems all happened with a relatively small group of people, half of whom got voted out pre-jury. At least from what we've seen as expected this new tribe hasn't been nearly as hostile to her as the original Lairo and she seems more at peace. My guess is she's probably never gonna become a big player and might end up a goat, but she probably won't be the "oh god, please die Karisima!" goat Lairo was treating her as at the start of this. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 03:21
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I am sick of the social justice lectures this season. Can we just play the game and show the scheming?
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Nov 8, 2019 03:38
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lol I was also dancing around the fact that some people find soapboxing annoying in and of itself regardless of content. But you look like an dickhead complaining about it, which itself is kind of a twist to it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVdFUcQrrD4 Sandra's first gnarly survival hazard comes up when she's not even playing!
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Nov 8, 2019 03:50
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I'm probably an extreme minority but the scheming is definitely my least favorite part of the show. Maybe they are appealing to more than one kind of viewer.
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Nov 8, 2019 03:51
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhwDBWL0zw0 Would you say that survivors singing is part of the show's appeal, if so, they've apparently been starving us of all sorts of Jack's singing all season. Did you know he was in an "R&B hiphop acapella group" in college? I wonder how much music, singing, and cabin fever babble they've cut out from the show just by virtue of not live streaming cameras 24/7.
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Nov 8, 2019 03:58
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Marcus knowing Crystal's cousin didn't count for much in Gabon
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Nov 8, 2019 04:08
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I'm down for scheming when it's actually shown and not edited out for surprise endings or left to tribal council whispers. Give me 42 minutes of challenges. Whenever a player is not blindfolded and getting thumped in the nuts or forehead they better be at risk of drowning or getting tackled in a mud pit. 
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Nov 8, 2019 04:10
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Khanstant posted:He seems well prepared, he thought about what he wanted to use any soapbox opportunity he got for. He chose thoughtful, relevant, resonant topics from the good side. Heck, being genuine about it is also a threat in and of itself. Can't argue against the points without being a huge tool. If he was already annoying in other ways, his thoughtfulness doesn't give as much purchase for character or personality attacks. I guess the natural pivot would be to use it against him as it being too agreeable, but that doesn't work if he's simultaneously kind of generally annoying to everyone. He also seems genuine on those things, don't get a vibe of him just putting on airs. Khanstant posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhwDBWL0zw0 Khanstant posted:I wonder how much music, singing, and cabin fever babble they've cut out from the show just by virtue of not live streaming cameras 24/7.
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Nov 8, 2019 04:14
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I know that only because my mom got into that poo poo. I think the only real conflict I ever had with her was the time where we had one computer in the house, and her desire to watch BB and my desire to play WoW occupied too much of the same time. It's something I've often wished there was a version for Survivor, but you're totally right, it would mostly be boring as hell and I'd end up watching edited down highlight videos... at which point just watch the real show and accept there's a lot cut out.
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Nov 8, 2019 04:32
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I really enjoyed Kellee's little rant about "all-women alliances" because it is an annoying thing that crops up all the time as this bogeyman. Sometimes sure, people do flirt with the idea, but so often there's no substance to it. So Kellee putting that argument out there was pretty cool because of the meta, recursive way Survivor strategies work meaning that people actually listen to that kind of thing.
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Nov 8, 2019 05:11
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:Give me 42 minutes of challenges. Whenever a player is not blindfolded and getting thumped in the nuts or forehead they better be at risk of drowning or getting tackled in a mud pit. just watch one of the billion japanese game shows that do exactly this
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Nov 8, 2019 05:57
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Khanstant posted:lol I was also dancing around the fact that some people find soapboxing annoying in and of itself regardless of content. But you look like an dickhead complaining about it, which itself is kind of a twist to it. Sorry I want to be entertained and not talked down to when watching TV.
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Nov 8, 2019 11:10
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Bigass Moth posted:Sorry I want to be entertained and not talked down to when watching TV. 1. I wanted to give Boston Rob the benefit of the doubt but that shelter looks like it was built with power tools. 2. There's a huge tarp used for the roof of the shelter, you can see the remainder of it rolled up behind them. 3. One time, a few days into a week-long kayak trip in Georgian Bay I got poison ivy rash all over my hands; similar to Sandra's problem but worse and there wasn't much I could do except keep going. So I can relate to her condition.
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Nov 8, 2019 11:24
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Khanstant posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhwDBWL0zw0 "I sing to keep our morale up" - does he think he's a bard in a D&D campaign?!
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Nov 8, 2019 11:30
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Bigass Moth posted:Sorry I want to be entertained and not talked down to when watching TV. lmao
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Nov 8, 2019 13:10
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Bigass Moth posted:Sorry I want to be entertained and not talked down to when watching TV. I also hate when Survivor, the television show that gave us “Race War: the Season” and “Sexism: the Season” (most seasons) spends literally two minutes looking at any of those concepts critically. My blood just boils. Grrr
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Nov 8, 2019 15:51
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My blood isn't boiling, get a grip. I'm allowed to dislike things you don't.
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Nov 8, 2019 15:54
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Bigass Moth posted:My blood isn't boiling, get a grip. I'm allowed to dislike things you don't. It's quite clear that you hate women and minorities and Survivor is here to tell you: that's bad.
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Nov 8, 2019 16:15
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Bigass Moth posted:My blood isn't boiling, get a grip. I'm allowed to dislike things you don't. People are allowed to criticize you for your bad opinions.
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Nov 8, 2019 16:19
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Bigass Moth posted:I'm allowed to dislike things you don't. MLYP
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Nov 8, 2019 16:24
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Lone Goat posted:It's quite clear that you hate women and minorities and Survivor is here to tell you: that's bad. That is one hell of a leap of logic to go from saying the lecturing is not entertaining, to being a woman and minority hater. I'm not disagreeing with what they're saying at all, just that it's tiresome to see it on TV. Kellee going off about an all woman's alliance bring sexist doesn't even make sense because guys/girls alliances are common in the game.
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Nov 8, 2019 16:50
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Bigass Moth posted:Sorry I want to be entertained and not talked down to when watching TV. No one was talking down to you. They were talking to each other and were being recorded.
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Nov 8, 2019 16:51
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