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ItBreathes posted:B&R is in 10 days, so let's play a game. One simple question: Would you short Oko? i am considering cashing in some wildcards to get some free okos on arena, so basically
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Nov 8, 2019 20:50
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ItBreathes posted:B&R is in 10 days, so let's play a game. One simple question: Would you short Oko? It dead. I'd be crafting more for the wildcards if I didn't already have a set. I don't know if I would try to do anything tricky to short the cards in paper. rkajdi fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 20:57
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sit on my Facebook posted:It's loving astounding. Just admit you hosed up! We all know that you did already! It's not news! Once they use that trick to inflate viewers with Curse and it looks like 89,000 people are watching they'll be like "See, all is well. We have massive viewership"
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Nov 8, 2019 20:59
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Hellsau posted:MC 6 Richmond starts in 5 minutes at https://www.twitch.tv/magic Update - Eldraine limited was not interesting or worth watching. Tom Clancy is Dead posted:Casual 63% Food. That's worse than Caw-Blade, or any other format boogeyman you care to name. Literally the most lopsided metagame I have ever witnessed. The only reason I can think of for them allowing this to happen was they want their paper event viewership to suffer. Sickening posted:You will still find folks out there that think that standard doesn't need any bans. Is their argument that they should instead unban Field? That would be an improvement, though it would still suck. ItBreathes posted:B&R is in 10 days, so let's play a game. One simple question: Would you short Oko? I would not, because anyone willing to take that bet is probably involved in some insider trading where WotC inexplicably doesn't ban Oko.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:00
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Sickening posted:You will still find folks out there that think that standard doesn't need any bans. Sam Black kept tweeting variations of "Standard is fine, just l2p" for the last week, to the point where I unfollowed him because I was tired of his hot takes.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:06
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sit on my Facebook posted:It's loving astounding. Just admit you hosed up! We all know that you did already! It's not news! As below, so above.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:08
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I can't find it anymore but there was even some wannabe pro tweeting about how social media and net decking are the ACTUAL reasons why Constructed sucks, because the "echo chamber" leads to more bannings when you could easily adapt to Hogaak, Field and Oko.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:09
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah I mean we’ve been kind of braying about it for a while but this might be the worst Standard... ever every standard is the worst standard but this one is the worst worst standard
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Nov 8, 2019 21:12
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https://twitter.com/MagicEsports/status/1192896435638984708 nice
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Nov 8, 2019 21:14
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ItBreathes posted:B&R is in 10 days, so let's play a game. One simple question: Would you short Oko? It's such an obvious ban that it's already getting priced in.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:14
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Is a powerful, hosed up standard like this worse than a boring weak standard like Ixilan?
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Nov 8, 2019 21:15
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Katana Gomai posted:Sam Black kept tweeting variations of "Standard is fine, just l2p" for the last week, to the point where I unfollowed him because I was tired of his hot takes. He is also playing oko though? He is a very good player. He is also so many magic stereotypes in one. I could see him as being a guy who sees a field of 100% the same deck and him actually be excited to play it.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:16
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kind bad for them to ban their big name pw
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Nov 8, 2019 21:17
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fadam posted:Is a powerful, hosed up standard like this worse than a boring weak standard like Ixilan? I think so yes. With something like Ixlan you can just brew something you like and not worry too much. Here you are either Oko or you suck.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:21
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fadam posted:Is a powerful, hosed up standard like this worse than a boring weak standard like Ixilan? Ixalan was the Temur Energy standard so Im not sure what you're asking here.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:22
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fadam posted:Is a powerful, hosed up standard like this worse than a boring weak standard like Ixilan? Kaladesh was still in Standard when Ixilan was released, and after the all of the bannings from Kaladesh block Temur Energy was the clear top deck. I feel like Oko standard is worse than Energy standard.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:23
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Katana Gomai posted:I can't find it anymore but there was even some wannabe pro tweeting about how social media and net decking are the ACTUAL reasons why Constructed sucks, because the "echo chamber" leads to more bannings when you could easily adapt to Hogaak, Field and Oko. I mean that's technically true - people see a deck they like and they netdeck it, which sometimes has hosed up consequences for metagames. For instance, there was a Burn deck that did well in a Pauper Challenge two weeks ago. People saw that and said hey, Burn must be good, let's play Burn! But Burn is a TERRIBLE deck in Pauper - it doesn't have good matchups, and it requires a lot of good draws to win the coinflips. 15 players out of 73 played Burn in last week's Pauper Challenge, to a 38% winrate. In that Challenge, 4 Tron players made top 8, and when people saw that, the general response was, "oh of course Tron did well, people played Boros too much - next week people will play Stompy and Burn and Tron won't do well!" Obviously Burn isn't a bad matchup for Tron, and Stompy is nearly an autowin. If those were bad matchups, Tron would have lost to Burn instead of crushing it. People who play Magic don't always have perfect information, it's kind of impossible to play enough matches with one deck to know all of its matchups perfectly much less play the entire format's worth of decks against all the other decks, and that lack of information can lead people to play a poor deck in large enough numbers that it exascerbates the problem a broken deck causes a format, because if people are just playing a bunch of garbage, even if there is a deck that beats the broken deck, you likely can't run it because when you just run into garbage twice early, you may never face the broken deck. So back to that original idiot's point. The echo chamber leads to more bannings, not because people don't try to adapt to broken cards like Hogaak, Field or Oko, but because they adapt badly. People can get the idea that one deck beats another even though that just isn't true - they think they're 60% favored when they're actually 20% to win, because of how the games play out or because the decks involved look kinda sorta like another matchup that plays significantly differently. Maybe Field could have been dealt with if people didn't play a bunch of decks that would never beat Field. The format would still have sucked, but there could have been a metagame equalibrium where ~3 decks were technically viable. Instead, people played decks that couldn't beat Field, WotC took a half-measure ban and didn't ban both Field and Oko at the same time, and Standard is hosed. Hellsau fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 21:30
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Katana Gomai posted:Sam Black kept tweeting variations of "Standard is fine, just l2p" for the last week, to the point where I unfollowed him because I was tired of his hot takes. Did he? You got links to that? I'm curious what his reasoning is. I thought he had one or two tweets where he said he thought there might be more room for variety in Standard than was the narrative. It looks like he's probably wrong on that, but I also wouldn't be shocked if it was true for him if not everyone else.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:31
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Hellsau posted:Update - Eldraine limited was not interesting or worth watching. MC drafts should just be them dropping a few thousand cards from the ceiling and a first-come-first-served brawl instead of this "take 1, pass along the pack" bs
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Nov 8, 2019 21:36
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does oko drive card sales? maybe they care more about that for now than the state of standard.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:37
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Saying that the problem is people adapting poorly is the root of the metagame issue in the MC seems really weak when MC players are the sort of people most likely to well informed and experienced in a deck's game.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:40
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Kurtofan posted:does oko drive card sales? maybe they care more about that for now than the state of standard. I think a mythic wanted in every format that exists, that is also in current standard packs is something they want to ride out.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:41
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Hellsau posted:I mean that's technically true - people see a deck they like and they netdeck it, which sometimes has hosed up consequences for metagames. For instance, there was a Burn deck that did well in a Pauper Challenge two weeks ago. People saw that and said hey, Burn must be good, let's play Burn! But Burn is a TERRIBLE deck in Pauper - it doesn't have good matchups, and it requires a lot of good draws to win the coinflips. 15 players out of 73 played Burn in last week's Pauper Challenge, to a 38% winrate. In that Challenge, 4 Tron players made top 8, and when people saw that, the general response was, "oh of course Tron did well, people played Boros too much - next week people will play Stompy and Burn and Tron won't do well!" Obviously Burn isn't a bad matchup for Tron, and Stompy is nearly an autowin. If those were bad matchups, Tron would have lost to Burn instead of crushing it. People who play Magic don't always have perfect information, it's kind of impossible to play enough matches with one deck to know all of its matchups perfectly much less play the entire format's worth of decks against all the other decks, and that lack of information can lead people to play a poor deck in large enough numbers that it exascerbates the problem a broken deck causes a format, because if people are just playing a bunch of garbage, even if there is a deck that beats the broken deck, you likely can't run it because when you just run into garbage twice early, you may never face the broken deck. hey hellsau what's the state of pauper these days anyway? is the format still a trashfire?
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Nov 8, 2019 21:46
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I mean, an Oko ban isn't some salve. The problem with standard is that Green and Blue, with the rotation of the old sets and the release of Eldrane, are just so overwhelmingly the best colors in standard. Without Oko, Simic-centerrd decks would be weaker but still dominant. Maybe they'd shift to strategies around Emery or something but a lot of the core players will find a deck to wrap themselves around. We need both more good cards in other colors in Theros that make them capable of doing things green and blue can pretty much on their own (especially green) and probably evacuate like half of green's current suite of staples that let it basically do whatever it wants.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:47
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A big flaming stink posted:wow unless food is incredibly easy to create, its seems like an insanely bad mechanic i would like to bring this post back up because good loving lord was I off the mark
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Nov 8, 2019 21:51
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Kurtofan posted:does oko drive card sales? maybe they care more about that for now than the state of standard. There are almost 1400 copies of it in this one room, so I'd say it moved a few packs. This whole situation is making me think about how much I'm glad that Arena exists for standard. Once Oko gets banned and everyone has to figure out what decks are actually good it's super easy to pivot into playing whatever, as opposed to trying to sell Okos and buy into whatever else.
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Nov 8, 2019 21:57
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Kurtofan posted:does oko drive card sales? maybe they care more about that for now than the state of standard. The EV of an in-print box will always settle somewhere around it's wholesale prcie. According to goldfish you've got a 30% chance of opening any given mythic in a box. At $65 per that meant Oko contributed nearly $20 alone to the EV of a box. That is, the chance to open an Oko was over a fifth of the desire people had in opening Eldraine. At $40 it's still around an eighth. So yes, Oko sells packs, it's at what point a poor meta leads to sales / engagement falling that's the question.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:00
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Even if the “other” archetype decks contain zero green cards (unlikely) over 80% of the constructed decks are green at the MC.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:01
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A big flaming stink posted:hey hellsau what's the state of pauper these days anyway? is the format still a trashfire? tron is the clear best deck by a mile and it will never get banned because not enough people can physically play the deck fast enough on mtgo, so i'm trapped playing this garbage
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Nov 8, 2019 22:02
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I am going to collect my winnings when they ban the Untitled Goose with some longwinded and disengenuous explanation that they looked REALLY HARD at Oko but is more or less fine, actually, it's him coming down turn 2 is ths big issue that they fixed.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:09
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Could you actually short magic cards? With the deck rental services I guess you could 'borrow' 20 Oko, sell them for TIX and buy them back to return after B&R.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:25
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mossyfisk posted:Could you actually short magic cards? Not really, price memory is ridiculous and moving product takes way too long compared to puts.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:29
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A big flaming stink posted:i would like to bring this post back up because good loving lord was I off the mark Gonna be fair to you and say that food doesn't seem impressive until you see how well goose/oko/wolf synergize
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Nov 8, 2019 22:31
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Owlbear Camus posted:I am going to collect my winnings when they ban the Untitled Goose with some longwinded and disengenuous explanation that they looked REALLY HARD at Oko but is more or less fine, actually, it's him coming down turn 2 is ths big issue that they fixed. If I were a betting man I'd be in there with you.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:32
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A big flaming stink posted:i would like to bring this post back up because good loving lord was I off the mark When taking your qualifier into account, it actually doesn't seem like you were that far wrong.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:35
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Is there any proof that the financial decision makers at Hasbro/WotC are hurting over this Oko business, or any bad decision WotC has made this year? I don't see anyone boycotting or quitting Magic. Not sure if I'm being overly cynical about things changing for the better.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:39
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LifeLynx posted:Is there any proof that the financial decision makers at Hasbro/WotC are hurting over this Oko business, or any bad decision WotC has made this year? I don't see anyone boycotting or quitting Magic. Not sure if I'm being overly cynical about things changing for the better. Companies live in the short term and that might not be that much short term damage. They are however, totally wasting money on this promotional event over the weekend because their viewership will be poo poo. The only people but WOTC that have "proof" are SCG and they said attendance in standard has dropped.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:40
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ItBreathes posted:B&R is in 10 days, so let's play a game. One simple question: Would you short Oko? It's on Monday, actually.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:43
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mandatory lesbian posted:Gonna be fair to you and say that food doesn't seem impressive until you see how well goose/oko/wolf synergize It is kinda weird because none of these things actually use food's abilities, if a food token had no text they would still work just as well with those cards.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:44
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Star Man posted:It's on Monday, actually. That's only Pioneer.
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Nov 8, 2019 22:44
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