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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Someone should tell most of continental Europe they aren't real countries then. Literally just opened the posting window to say this
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Nov 8, 2019 22:26
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Israel has a huge army and nuclear weapons. If the US cut Israel off it can hold off its Arab neighbors again in a conventional war. The RoC military is less of a paper tiger than Germany's or Switzerland's. Or lol, Canada's (I'm Canadian, our military doesn't even qualify as a paper tiger, more like a 4-year-old's crayon drawing of a tiger)
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Nov 8, 2019 22:28
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LimburgLimbo posted:Literally just opened the posting window to say this
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Nov 8, 2019 22:28
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Every country that is not the USA or Russia: NOT A COUNTRY
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Nov 8, 2019 22:35
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The spirit of R. Guy lives on. You get em, CAPS LOCK 
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Nov 8, 2019 22:37
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Someone should tell most of continental Europe they aren't real countries then. Is most of continental Europe currently engaged in a territorial dispute over a civil war they lost??
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Nov 8, 2019 22:40
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Dramicus posted:The RoC military is less of a paper tiger than Germany's or Switzerland's. Or lol, Canada's (I'm Canadian, our military doesn't even qualify as a paper tiger, more like a 4-year-old's crayon drawing of a tiger) Taiwan only has 6 days of natural gas reserve. After 1 week, half of their power plants are offline. Thanks to Tsai btw. Canada really don't need any army. Why do Canada need army?
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Nov 8, 2019 22:41
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whatever7 posted:Taiwan only has 6 days of natural gas reserve. After 1 week, half of their power plants are offline. Thanks to Tsai btw. I'm pretty sure most European militaries estimate they can only fight at full capacity for a couple weeks at the most too. I'd bet Germany would rapidly run out of gas if Russia were to turn it off. whatever7 posted:Canada really don't need any army. Why do Canada need army? You are right, it doesn't need an army because it isn't a real country. Canada only exists because the USA is kind enough to allow it. CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Is most of continental Europe currently engaged in a territorial dispute over a civil war they lost?? Most of Europe has territorial disputes from lost wars, yes. Dramicus fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 22:43
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Is most of continental Europe currently engaged in a territorial dispute over a civil war they lost??
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Nov 8, 2019 22:45
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Is most of continental Europe currently engaged in a territorial dispute over a civil war they lost?? Ukraine: not a real country. Serbia: not a real country. Georgia: not a real country. Spain: not a real country. China, 1949-1956: not a real country
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Nov 8, 2019 22:59
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N minus 1 members of the Warsaw Pact: not countries
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Nov 8, 2019 23:23
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A lot of places in theory have the muscle to totally exert their authority over another place, but you still gotta put in the effort of sending in people to do the murdering to force them to acknowledge the conquest before it counts. Which sometimes doesn't go so well. Of course, it's entirely possible that when push comes to shove, China would not only invade by force but be willing to scourge every man woman and child that may oppose their assertion of dominion, but they haven't done it 'til they've done it.
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Nov 8, 2019 23:50
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The only real country in stans eyes is the PRC.
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Nov 8, 2019 23:57
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lmao Taiwan is absolutely a country in practical terms by any reasonable definition of sovereignty.
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Nov 9, 2019 00:34
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Taiwan is a “country” the same way the “Republic of Vietnam” was a country. If your de facto state’s existence is entirely contingent on larger parties like America using you as a proxy then you lack the legitimacy to call yourself a country. This is the worst reading of a country ever. By this definition Half of the planet is like a border dispute or land grab away from not being a country
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Nov 9, 2019 00:34
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Forget paper tigers, there are a dozen plus countries without any standing army at all (Costa Rica being perhaps the most famous). It's an imperialist view of sovereignty -- "if they can't resist us, they're not a real state".
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Nov 9, 2019 00:41
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 smh western propagandists saying somewhere is a country simply because it has its own professional military, print’s it’s own currency, enforces customs at it’s borders, has de facto diplomatic relations with foreign powers, and has a de facto fully independent electoral, judicial, and legislative institutions
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Nov 9, 2019 00:41
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German state broadcaster turning on the HK protestors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9nNeO0yWyk
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Nov 9, 2019 01:37
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Now when we say 'Fully independent'...
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Nov 9, 2019 01:43
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drat that German grandpa didn't take any bullshit from the entitled "spokeswoman". Don't they have less smug looking youth like Agnes Chow they can push to front of the camera? This chick is coming out of the Crazy Rich Asian cast. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Nov 9, 2019 |
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Nov 9, 2019 01:47
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whatever7 posted:drat that German grandpa didn't take any bullshit from the entitled "spokeswoman". The entire western support for the protestors is astroturf from state owned media and state adjacent media like CNN. Note that during the run up phase from April - October the media almost never let any of these protest "leaders" speak on behalf of themselves, all coverage was done through western correspondents filtering the news back to a population that doesn't know any better. The bureau chiefs knew better than to grant interviews to people like Joshua Wong or Joey Siu because of how utterly dogmatic and extremist they are. Now that the whole thing needs to be wrapped up the media is more than content to grant interviews to these people and let them hang themselves with their own words.
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Nov 9, 2019 02:01
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Note that during the run up phase from April - October the media almost never let any of these protest "leaders" speak on behalf of themselves, all coverage was done through western correspondents filtering the news back to a population that doesn't know any better. The bureau chiefs knew better than to grant interviews to people like Joshua Wong or Joey Siu because of how utterly dogmatic and extremist they are. Yes, the western media never interviewed the leaders of this leaderless movement. Especially Joshua Wong, who was in prison until June
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Nov 9, 2019 03:11
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:The entire western support for the protestors is astroturf from state owned media and state adjacent media like CNN. Note that during the run up phase from April - October the media almost never let any of these protest "leaders" speak on behalf of themselves, all coverage was done through western correspondents filtering the news back to a population that doesn't know any better. The bureau chiefs knew better than to grant interviews to people like Joshua Wong or Joey Siu because of how utterly dogmatic and extremist they are. Now that the whole thing needs to be wrapped up the media is more than content to grant interviews to these people and let them hang themselves with their own words. The rhetorical support for the protesters in the West is predictable and there hasn't been any particular uptick in Joshua Wong's appearances. Unfortunately for people who do want to wrap it up, though, I think the political effect of smears in some Western countries will be as negligible as it has been up to this point: even the moral support of the German state would not, of course, solve the internal problem the Chinese government has created for itself and continued to aggravate through its own incompetence.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:11
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I don' t see this thing "wrapping up" soon. There is a reason Carrie Lam didn't press for more emergency executive orders outside of the mask ban. I think minimum another half year or up to 2-3 years.
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Nov 9, 2019 03:31
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How are u posted:The spirit of R. Guy lives on. You get em, CAPS LOCK R guy isn't anywhere near as bad as pevin, how rude!
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Nov 9, 2019 04:20
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whatever7 posted:I don' t see this thing "wrapping up" soon. There is a reason Carrie Lam didn't press for more emergency executive orders outside of the mask ban. I think minimum another half year or up to 2-3 years. The word is that the central government is privately unhappy with the Hong Kong Police Force and is studying the possibility of further concessions, but there are obvious obstacles to that if they want to avoid encouraging protests in the future. Certainly Xi is unhappy with the HK and Macao office for completely misjudging the situation, and this has been reflected in the diminishing emphasis by China on supposed "black hands" behind the protesters etc. The Hong Kong government itself is trapped because public opinion has consolidated so strongly against it that a political solution without major concessions has become impossible, but those concessions would also have to require significantly curtailing HKPF which has become a state within a state -- so it would be impossible without an explicit mandate from the central government. There won't be any crackdown by the central government because of Hong Kong's importance to China's financial infrastructure, but I suspect they will end up trying to thread the needle next year by sacking Lam and punishing both the most militant protesters and the insubordinate police force. I doubt there's much they can do within a framework acceptable to Xi but it might give some breathing space.
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Nov 9, 2019 04:24
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Grapplejack posted:R guy isn't anywhere near as bad as pevin, how rude! Well, no, he's not now.
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Nov 9, 2019 04:29
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I said it before when Cabe was around, there is no chance of negotiation. The movement is decentralized, you can go so far as to say the pro protest lawmakers and the like of Joshua Wong refuse to be the leader. So there is no way to deal. And HK police is the last thing CCP will discipline because the police is the only group they can trust in HK right now. The national congress meeting only mentioned relying on the Basic Law to resolve the turmoil so expect a top down policy change in the judicial system to expedite the prosecutions. Neither the congress nor the xinhua editorial have mentioned the protest sympathizers in the civic service, the university principles, the school teachers and radical students. So CCP aren't even worry about these people right now. CCP want to fix the upper structure first, including the yellow leaning people inside the DOJ before they look at the radicals who are out on the street. Beijing would never fire someone publicly to let the HK public know protest work even if they are not happy with whoever's performance. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Nov 9, 2019 |
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Nov 9, 2019 04:53
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They have already done so in the past. Generally, the changes you mention are long-term: a purge of the justice and education systems are certainly objectives for the Chinese government in the longer term, but they will not solve the current crisis and they will obviously do nothing to ease public sentiment in the short term. As for the police, no, they can't trust them. They support Beijing, sure, and that's fine for parading them in the media, but they are also bungling and insubordinate, which are not desirable political qualities, and ultimately it is not particularly useful to be forced to rely on a few thousand incompetents that the vast majority of Hong Kong have started to hate. The people in Beijing are not delusional and can see how thoroughly police tactics have backfired, as well as the lack of any innovation in those tactics. I can say with reasonable certainty from my own personal knowledge that policymakers are aware of this problem, aside from whatever they're saying in public, but it'll obviously come down to what Xi wants. For my part I think it's obvious that any solution in Hong Kong will necessarily involve reining in the police, just as the British had to do when public sentiment turned against them, and the question will be how to do so subtly.
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Nov 9, 2019 05:13
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What's the point of sorting out the police if whoever they arrest right now are getting bailed right away? Out of the 2000 or whatever the police have arrested, how many have actually been convicted? If nobody has gone to jail then the unrest will continue. There is no point to reign in the police right now. And i think you believe Beijing need the HK population support to control the HK financial institutes which are really the actual important organs to China. Actually they don't need the HK public. They just need their own people running these institutes including the HK stock exchange, the HK Monetary Authority that control the pegging of the dollar, etc. Beijing is not in a hurry to win back the support of the public. The public can only vote in half of the lawmakers anyway. This battle over the control of HK is going to extra innings. Also Beijing just announced new policies thats designed to allow HKers easier to live and own property in greater bay area. This is very similar to the new 26 policies announced to the Taiwanese. The purpose of these policies is to only grant benefit the pro Beijing HKers and Taiwanese, but not to the HK SAR and Taiwan regions. whatever7 fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Nov 9, 2019 |
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Nov 9, 2019 05:28
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Great an American dude I know trended on reddit for going to help in the protest as “first aid”. Dudes basically a protest tourist and that poo poo should not be encouraged.
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Nov 9, 2019 07:12
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whatever7 posted:Taiwan only has 6 days of natural gas reserve. After 1 week, half of their power plants are offline. Thanks to Tsai btw. Wait until you see where China's Mideast oil imports have to go past to get to their coastal terminals, then you'll really see who holds the balance of power when it comes to energy imports. Unless you think the Chinese navy can project force, in which case... I am sorry.
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Nov 9, 2019 07:58
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I am, quite frankly, worried about caberham. 
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Nov 9, 2019 08:08
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GreyjoyBastard posted:I am, quite frankly, worried about caberham. he's fine
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Nov 9, 2019 09:57
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lol jesus christ at the tankies arguing now that only might and power make for actual independent nations. The weak and dependent need not apply. Literally just fascists.
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Nov 9, 2019 16:36
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Isn't Pevan the one who failed the foreign service exam multiple times? If so, I can see why. "It's not a real test, because I didn't pass."
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Nov 10, 2019 12:29
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Hong Kong rioters are now shaking down restaurants and other businesses for protection money. If they don't cough up cash they get put on a list of businesses that "support the police" and targeted for violence: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHGcWyZtgDg
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Nov 10, 2019 16:26
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Hong Kong rioters are now shaking down restaurants and other businesses for protection money. Defending a billionaire heiress who literally whined about HK protestors to the United Nations to own the libs.
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Nov 10, 2019 18:49
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:The CCP is now shaking down restaurants and other businesses for protection money. If they don't cough up cash they get put on a list of businesses that "support the police" and targeted for violence:
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Nov 10, 2019 18:50
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CAPS LOCK BROKEN posted:Hong Kong rioters are now shaking down restaurants and other businesses for protection money. If they don't cough up cash they get put on a list of businesses that "support the police" and targeted for violence: basically all insurrections do this sort of thing if they're at all organised so good on them i guess???
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Nov 10, 2019 18:56
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