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Consuming Burger King is WITHOUT HONOR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz-yOK_kGys
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Nov 9, 2019 04:25
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I think they really wanted ST:TMP to be Star Wars But For Paramount and the people actually making the movie wanted it to be 2001 A Space Odyssey But Star Trek.
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Nov 9, 2019 04:39
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I get the idea Picard is at least hopefully gonna be about tying up a lot of loose ends from TNG. (and to a lesser extent Voyager) That does seem to be the theme of the trailers so far.
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Nov 9, 2019 05:32
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drat, I'm finally making my way through DS9 season 6 and Call to Arms through Sacrifice of Angels is just an insane run of good episodes. Somebody earlier was talking about 2 parters that stuck the landing, and this really feels like a 7-parter that did the same thing.
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Nov 9, 2019 06:01
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bennyfactor posted:Consuming Burger King is WITHOUT HONOR It's been many years since I watched TMP, but aren't Klingons only in it for like two minutes in the beginning when they get wasted by V'ger?
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Nov 9, 2019 06:11
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Drink-Mix Man posted:The Borg had a good arc in TNG, and they should have been left alone after that. You never knew exactly how many there were out there, and the series ends with them maybe being liberated altogether. Picard and Guinan both come to terms with their resentments against them. The end. I recently rewatched all the Borg episodes in perpetration for the Picard show. It's amazing how few there are. They're introduced in Q Who, they fight in Best of Both Worlds, and then they have an interesting quiet personal dilemma in I Borg. It's a great arc for Picard. He has to beg God to save them in their first encounter, he's violated in horrific ways in his second encounter, and he has to deal with those feelings when he faces the Borg in a non-existential threat setting. It's great. And then there's Descent. I don't think I had seen that story since I was a small child and it first aired. Jesus Christ was it bad and did its best to make the Borg feel dumb and lame. Though the biggest issue is Lore, who makes no sense. I'm still not sure why he's into turning the Borg into robots, or why the Borg want to turn into robots, or why Lore needs to destroy the Federation. I've also recently watched all of Voyager and I have to say, Scorpion is actually a decent follow up to Best of Both Worlds. People remember Voyager as having ruined the Borg, but they did it with attrition, and not all at once. Judging by Descent, it seems as if Next Generation was just raring to go at ruining the Borg themselves. Edit: It did give us the raw material for this though, when Lore brainwashes Data, so it's mostly forgiven: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29-iFOEOgIM Eiba fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Nov 9, 2019 |
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Nov 9, 2019 06:42
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Jows posted:It's been many years since I watched TMP, but aren't Klingons only in it for like two minutes in the beginning when they get wasted by V'ger?
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Nov 9, 2019 06:52
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Eiba posted:I've also recently watched all of Voyager and I have to say, Scorpion is actually a decent follow up to Best of Both Worlds. People remember Voyager as having ruined the Borg, but they did it with attrition, and not all at once. Even Voyager at its worst felt like it was engaging with the idea of the Borg. Decent feels like someone realized they still had a bunch of Borg prosthetics lying around so they might as well use them for Lore's minions. Hell, they don't even use the regular Borg ship...
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Nov 9, 2019 07:57
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Arglebargle III posted:I think they really wanted ST:TMP to be Star Wars But For Paramount and the people actually making the movie wanted it to be 2001 A Space Odyssey But Star Trek. TMP was in the works long before Star Wars was released.
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Nov 9, 2019 15:05
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Timby posted:TMP was in the works long before Star Wars was released. I have heard that it may have suffered due to being made when sci-fi epics were expected to be ponderous before Star Wars changed the game.
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Nov 9, 2019 15:25
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Drink-Mix Man posted:The Borg had a good arc in TNG, and they should have been left alone after that. You never knew exactly how many there were out there, and the series ends with them maybe being liberated altogether. Picard and Guinan both come to terms with their resentments against them. The end. I get it, and I get wanting the mystique of the original to be maintained, but that is entirely antithetical to the premise of a continuing franchise. If there's a really cool thing that you've got the rights to do stories with, you're gonna use it at some point. That's the whole purpose of making shows out of preexisting IPs in the first place instead of starting fresh every time. There is an aspect where reused old ideas represent areas where newer writers could've cultivated new ideas that could've been great in their own right, but the same could be said about all IPs and franchises in general. On the flip side, you can look at the Klingons, who only got better and better as they were reused and newer writers added bits, leading to a depth they wouldn't have otherwise, although some things that some writers added got mostly ignored, like the emperor.
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Nov 9, 2019 16:43
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Timby posted:TMP was in the works long before Star Wars was released.
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Nov 10, 2019 02:36
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jeeves posted:Borgtalk: I don't think that was ever explicit, although it was implied and makes sense. IIRC Data had a line about how it was uncertain whether it was the same cube, but the dimensions were identical. quote:I also like the head canon that the gianormous cube was the ONLY Borg cube. That makes the most sense in a collective way. I like that idea, or at least just making the Borg very small in numbers (maybe a few cubes total and no planets, for example). Makes the force of nature idea of them much cooler I think.
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Nov 10, 2019 06:30
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It's at least plausible that the cube from 'Q Who' is the same as BOBW since in 'Q Who' the Borg would have gained knowledge of Earth through either the drones that accessed main engineering or from the people in that section of the saucer that got cut out. A lot of stuff got retconned later like a Borg Queen being on the cube from BOBW, and I think Voyager runs into ex-Starfleet officers in the Delta Quadrant who were on the ships that got destroyed at Wolf 359 which makes no sense but whatever.
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Nov 10, 2019 06:40
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I've always been on board for same cube. The idea that the cube had just never, ever stopped chasing the Enterprise and even Q flinging them across the galaxy wasn't enough to hide them is perfect for how the Borg were at first. And despite Voyager, I liked the "Don't provoke the Borg!" line when the Qs were fighting. The idea of even the Q looking at the Borg and going  intrigues me. Not sure it makes any sense, but there was already implication that the Q are not as all powerful as they like to claim.
Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 07:05 on Nov 10, 2019 |
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Nov 10, 2019 07:02
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Might be as much because the Borg are no fun, and if they're too provoked they might end up assimilating everyone who is fun. Though the Borg's whole deal is basically innovating by brute force, and they might figure out something that can threaten the Q if they're motivated to, and the Q likely have weaknesses they don't tell anyone about.
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Nov 10, 2019 07:32
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Grand Fromage posted:I've always been on board for same cube. The idea that the cube had just never, ever stopped chasing the Enterprise and even Q flinging them across the galaxy wasn't enough to hide them is perfect for how the Borg were at first.
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Nov 10, 2019 08:22
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Might be as much because the Borg are no fun, and if they're too provoked they might end up assimilating everyone who is fun. Though the Borg's whole deal is basically innovating by brute force, and they might figure out something that can threaten the Q if they're motivated to, and the Q likely have weaknesses they don't tell anyone about. I think the Q must have some weaknesses along these lines, or else Guinan's El-Aurian martial arts stance is just silly in a way I don't want Guinan to be.
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Nov 10, 2019 16:36
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If the El-Aurians have some ability to fight the Q, it stands to reason the Borg do too after destroying Guinan’s homeworld and presumably assimilating some of them. Maybe they don’t have a way into the Q Continuum yet, so not provoking them is a means to prevent getting a Q assimilated.
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Nov 10, 2019 17:09
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Humerus posted:Well they had a couple deals to save money by paying for a year or more at a time. My wife and I got three years for the cost of two month to month. And yeah we had the CBS all access (no commercials even) but I cancel it when there's no Star Trek so when Picard comes around I'll renew it for that and catch up on the Short Treks. I was planning on getting it as a Hulu+ add-on, but I can't figure out where the option is on the site
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Nov 10, 2019 17:24
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Lemniscate Blue posted:I think the Q must have some weaknesses along these lines, or else Guinan's El-Aurian martial arts stance is just silly in a way I don't want Guinan to be. She could also just be giving him the finger in El-Aurian. Q is such a tool that she's doing it with both hands. The way Q talks about Guinan (especially calling her an imp) makes me think she tricked or outsmarted him in the past and he's sore about it. She also has at least a passive ability to resist his powers since she was the only one left in Ten Forward and her gesture looks defensive. I think she's just irritating to him, but probably not an outright threat.
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Nov 10, 2019 23:57
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Retrowave Joe posted:If the El-Aurians have some ability to fight the Q, it stands to reason the Borg do too after destroying Guinan’s homeworld and presumably assimilating some of them. The whole thing with Species 8472 was an attempt to get to the Q Continuum that failed.
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Nov 11, 2019 00:47
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Eiba posted:Edit: It did give us the raw material for this though, when Lore brainwashes Data, so it's mostly forgiven: Oh yikes, I've seen this before but didn't notice editing Riker to be in there. Like he's just chilling in the figure painting class to admire the model. That's hilarious.
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Nov 11, 2019 01:21
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Khanstant posted:Oh yikes, I've seen this before but didn't notice editing Riker to be in there. Like he's just chilling in the figure painting class to admire the model. That's hilarious.
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Nov 11, 2019 01:47
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McNally posted:The whole thing with Species 8472 was an attempt to get to the Q Continuum that failed. I feel like we just did a better job writing a Star Trek story than Orci and Lindelof
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Nov 11, 2019 03:15
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Isn't it Q's son that he tells not to provoke the Borg?
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Nov 11, 2019 03:20
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Epicurius posted:Isn't it Q's son that he tells not to provoke the Borg? I really did stop watching Voyager just in time.
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Nov 11, 2019 04:12
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Q really went soft after he married Fluttershy.
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Nov 11, 2019 04:56
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:I really did stop watching Voyager just in time.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:44
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FlamingLiberal posted:Oh it gets even better, because his son is the result of a civil war in the Q Continuum which is viewed to the crew of Voyager as a bunch of Q on a Civil War battlefield complete with uniforms and everything And that only happened because Janeway wouldn't have sex with Q.
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Nov 11, 2019 05:54
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FlamingLiberal posted:Oh it gets even better, because his son is the result of a civil war in the Q Continuum which is viewed to the crew of Voyager as a bunch of Q on a Civil War battlefield complete with uniforms and everything The real issue was when the crew of the Voyager stole the Q rifles and started shooting people. That was pretty mind boggling.
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Nov 11, 2019 06:39
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I thought that made an amusing kind of sense, in a quantum kind of way; making it observable to mortals inherently changed the nature of the conflict.
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Nov 11, 2019 07:14
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I just watched an episode of Voyager where Voyager is transporting a group of criminals condemned to death and Nelix befriends one and finds out that his species is the victim of horrendous racial profiling, so he takes pity and forwards a message to the guy's brother. Leading to Voyager getting attacked by violent ethnic rebels. Nelix learns to distrust oppressed racial minorities. gently caress Voyager. There has been more utterly loathsome stuff in this show than there ever was in the worst interpretations of Discovery. Like, loathsome on a real human scale. I'm still pissed at the episode where Seven of Nine learns to doubt her memories of a sexual assault, and maybe think about how hard it is for a man to be accused of rape. This isn't about war crimes or hard men making hard decisions, this is some real every day "gently caress minorities and victimized people on a personal level" poo poo.
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Nov 11, 2019 07:19
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There are so many tepid, nothingburger episodes of Voyager it's sometimes easy to forget how many incredibly lovely hot take stories there were.
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Nov 11, 2019 09:53
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Timelines is making me notice that, at least if the cards are correct, Dukat actually wears Klingon armour and gear while commanding the captured Bird of Prey, and the same outfit as the Jem'Hadar while he's with the Dominion. Not sure what to take from that, other than the Jem'Hadar outfit is awesome.
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Nov 11, 2019 10:23
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Aww https://twitter.com/albinokid/status/1193408372814553088?s=19
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Nov 11, 2019 11:31
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I've gone through too many episodes, some of them forgettable, to list thoughts about every DS9 episode I've seen by now (I just watched "Whispers"). However, random thoughts from various episodes in seasons 1 and 2 to that point: The Cardassian man in "Duet" caused me to think, "man, this guy went to the Vince McMahon school of villain acting" until I remembered that this is 1993 and very likely Vince McMahon went to the Maritza school of villain acting. As ten or so of the first thirty YouTube results for this episode are just variations of "look at this acting masterclass" so I'm apparently not alone. I should say that this episode is incredibly well done considering it has bascially zero budget and just has to rely on talking heads. But it's going to take years to get all his teeth-marks out of the scenery. Odo almost never fails to own a scene in every episode. He's usually the best part of season one episodes, though it gets harder for him to own in guest-heavy season two when reduced to token payday appearances. It was interesting that Li Nalis was not working for the Circle or for Ducat. The latter's apology for keeping slaves after it stopped being acceptable feels disingenuous, and the Cards are eventually revealed to be up to no good, but neither Nalis nor his work camp was a honey pot? I liked the concept of a guy who is out of his depth but as fate would have it is spoken of with this sort of 'Master Chief in Halo' war hero vibe he didn't earn or want. "Cardassians" was an episode a lot of people liked but I was so-so on. The kid who wishes he was Bajoran but alas can only be a Bajoran Weeb, and his presence causing O'Brien to reassess his own biases was the best part of the episode. The secret mission stuff with Garak mostly bored me, I like Garak but I know he has a lot of appearances down the line. "Melora" was dull but gave me the Klingon restaurant and an in-universe acknowledgement that the station's doorway design is frankly stupid. (Even the doors to private quarters have raised platforms people can trip on!) "Rules of Acquisition" ends on a weird note. Quark gives his cross-dressing business partner ten bars of latinum, and basically encourages her to continue cosplaying a man and making a profit in other parts of the galaxy that just won't involve him. However, she is so mad-horny for him that... she rips off her fake ears in front of the Nagus, which I guess makes her point about Ferenghi society and plays some measure of revenge on Quark in that he won't get his Gamma Quadrant fortunes, but it's the end of her business days and also not likely to make Quark like her any more than he did before. This came across for half a second like a feminist empowerment moment but it's deflated by being counter-productive. The actually good part of the scene is that Quark still defends her even after losing his fortune. He has no self-interest in the situation at this point but still puts his neck on the line. Quark may not have ethics, but he has moral principles that supersede his greed. "Necessary Evil" is so good. This show is so good, you guys... And then the filler came. Most guides of DS9 for busy people recommend skipping a lot of episodes around here, but I watched "Rivals" anyways because the commoner life on the Promenade is one of my favorite aspects of the show. This was kind of like a bad TNG episode? The stuff with O'Brien/Bashier felt very forced and unusual. Script-wise, it wanted to have it's cake and eat it too, producing some sort of chance-based mechanism that was introduced in a very cursed fashion but isn't described in enough detail to believe it's actually cursed. Instead, they tried to go from the other direction and make some sort of scientific quantifier for luck which is always reckless for a fiction writer. Though the federation is a league of explorers and scientists, they actually aren't interested in knowing how the guest star's gambling devices work. They blast them with phasers because small accidents are breaking out everywhere on the station due to excessive bad luck. We can't risk minor incidents for another minute, open fire. "The Alternate" is.. fine. As Odo focus episodes go, I enjoyed the two ones more, particularly Necessary Evil. "Armageddon Game" felt like a TOS episode. The minimal set design for the alien craft and the alien's wacky hair/costumes was straight out of many TOS parodies. The plot is typical Trek fare. Though as an O'Brien/Bashir episode, it would have been better if it didn't air shortly after Rivals and if the ending didn't suggest grave consequences for civilizations that will never seen again. That brings me to "Whispers", another O'Brien focused episode. I get the feeling someone wondered what would happen if Rod Serling wrote a Trek episode, because this is a great tribute to The Twilight Zone and shows of it's ilk but it's not a great moment for Star Trek continuity. RobObrien is fully awoken as a human (I mean we don't see him on the toilet, but come on) and seems indistinguishable to any crew member who doesn't know the truth about him. But we already know that the high water mark for robotic humanoids in the 24th century Alpha Quadrant is Data, or that one robot Data himself made one time that supposedly surpassed him. Nobody tell the Borg that the Gamma Quadrant has figured out how to make them blend in with organic society. Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 12:09
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Craptacular! posted:That brings me to "Whispers", another O'Brien focused episode. I get the feeling someone wondered what would happen if Rod Serling wrote a Trek episode, because this is a great tribute to The Twilight Zone and shows of it's ilk but it's not a great moment for Star Trek continuity. RobObrien is fully awoken as a human (I mean we don't see him on the toilet, but come on) and seems indistinguishable to any crew member who doesn't know the truth about him. But we already know that the high water mark for robotic humanoids in the 24th century Alpha Quadrant is Data, or that one robot Data himself made one time that supposedly surpassed him. Nobody tell the Borg that the Gamma Quadrant has figured out how to make them blend in with organic society. I always assumed the replicant was some biological construct, maybe even just a fast-grown clone. (Given he passed a deep physical, he'd almost have to be biological) MikeJF fucked around with this message at 12:23 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 12:19
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MikeJF posted:I always assumed the replicant was some biological construct, maybe even just a fast-grown clone. (Given he passed a deep physical, he'd almost have to be biological) Something more along the lines of the murderer/victim in "A Man Alone"? Not a bad thought.
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Nov 11, 2019 12:28
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Was the replicant a Dominion plant? It is established that the Dominion's whole thing is cloning and genetic modification. Apparently it was stated that the Tosk are indeed a variant Jem'Hadar, or at least a species given similar traits by the Dominion as a reward to a loyal member world.
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Nov 11, 2019 12:52
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