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Sydin posted:e. And even then KOTOR II was Avellone back-handedly complaining to the player that the Star Wars universe is shallow and makes no sense if try to analyze it at all. It was more of a critique of the Star Wars EU than of the actual movies. Mostly it was complaining about how all the books, video games, comics, etc. just tended to be stuck on an endless repeat.
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Nov 11, 2019 01:22
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KOTOR and to a much greater extent KOTOR 2 also echo a lot of the prequels’ critique on the Jedi mindset. Everything bad in the story happened because the Jedi were prideful, hubristic, dogmatic. They refused to let young Jedi fix problems for fear they would turn to the dark side, so the young Jedi turned to the dark side all the more and the order died off while all the old masters grumble about how if everyone had just sat around with their thumb up their rear end, nothing would have gone wrong.
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Nov 11, 2019 02:45
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Yaldabaoth posted:Don't forget that the movies also have to be stripped of anything that could potentially piss off american and chinese audiences, resulting in bland, toothless pabulum that's afraid to make a statement about anything. I mean, certainly 9 will conform to this after TLJ pissed off every CHUD on the planet by having the most shallow, basic criticisms of the Patriarchy and Capitalism possible, and also the Chinese audience because the Asian actress kissed a black actor.
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Nov 11, 2019 04:10
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Sydin posted:I mean, certainly 9 will conform to this after TLJ pissed off every CHUD on the planet by having the most shallow, basic criticisms of the Patriarchy and Capitalism possible, and also the Chinese audience because the Asian actress kissed a black actor. The Chinese audience isn't going to even break $20 million this time around. From TFA ($124,159,000) -> TLJ ($42,577,974) they lost about 66% in ticket sales. The Chinese movie-goer doesn't have any history with Star Wars, which means no nostalgia, which mean if they were disappointed with the last movie, they're not going to have that driving them to see the next like a lot of western moviegoers. But Disney has to go after every possible cent, so they have to make sure everything is CCP compliant and as bland as possible to satisfy that potential audience.
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Nov 11, 2019 07:23
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Sydin posted:I mean, certainly 9 will conform to this after TLJ pissed off every CHUD on the planet by having the most shallow, basic criticisms of the Patriarchy and Capitalism possible, and also the Chinese audience because the Asian actress kissed a black actor. Chinese audiences don’t give a poo poo that an American of Korean ancestry did a thing. It’s Star Wars so they don’t care either way but you know what I mean
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Nov 11, 2019 07:51
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Sydin posted:I mean, certainly 9 will conform to this after TLJ pissed off every CHUD on the planet by having the most shallow, basic criticisms of the Patriarchy and Capitalism possible, and also the Chinese audience because the Asian actress kissed a black actor. I think the effect of assorted bigots was overblown. Not saying they don't exist (in fact they attack everything like this and Star Wars isn't really unique here) but most people had complaints rooted in actual problems with the movie. The Chuds are simply both extremely loud, make a ton of algorithm boosted social media content, and make a good scapegoat. It's also better PR for Disney to say bigots are sabotaging the movie than say they made a bad movie. Plus clickbait articles with titles like "Racists are ruining Star Wars" generate a lot more clicks than "Disney mad a bad movie".
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Nov 11, 2019 08:28
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Gutcruncher posted:Chinese audiences don’t give a poo poo that an American of Korean ancestry did a thing. We know what they care about. . . 
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Nov 11, 2019 08:40
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I hope this uninspired piece of poo poo underperforms A few years without Star Wars and marvel Disney crap in theaters would be nice. A man can dream
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Nov 11, 2019 08:53
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Zzulu posted:Your nephew is fixed
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Nov 11, 2019 12:05
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Empire Strikes Back is a better critique of what Avellone thought Star Wars was than KOTOR 2.
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Nov 11, 2019 13:30
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sassassin posted:Empire Strikes Back is a better critique of what Avellone thought Star Wars was than KOTOR 2. what does this even mean
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Nov 11, 2019 13:35
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Big Beef City posted:what does this even mean KOTOR 2 's narrative is principally a takedown of the simplistic light/dark morality of the force in Star Wars, which was only really a thing in the first movie. Like Empire already has characters questioning the rigid dogma of the Jedi when Luke abandons his training to save his friends. As with most EU stories it adds little to the discussion. Avellone said he wasn't really into Star Wars and didn't know the property that well, and it shows. It's critical of the pop culture understanding of Star Wars more than the actual films. It's a fun game though.
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Nov 11, 2019 14:13
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In Empire Yoda is already preaching the type of selfish pragmatism Kreia keeps hassling you with in KOTOR 2, and Luke is the original "grey" Jedi straddling the lines of dark/not-dark, murdering guards and trying to recruit his Evil dad. Yoda and Obi-Wan are both hiding terrible secrets from Luke, just like Kreia, only instead of being silly final boss fights they're just sad and wrong old dead men (but it worked out in the end so they're happy as immortal ghosts free to continue meddling).
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Nov 11, 2019 14:25
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oh I just quite literally had forgotten the plot to KOTOR 2 in comparison to ESB e: kinda odd because I remember playing through it and the first one with my roommate at the time and loving both of them and I can't remember jack poo poo about the specifics of either of them other than "you build your own light saber and poo poo" and that we had a lot of fun playing them. :/ Big Beef City fucked around with this message at 14:35 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 14:32
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Luke casually killing guards is in ROTJ. In ESB his clothes are gray, in ROTJ they’re black on the outside and white within. Which is appropriate. Both KOTOR games are fun enough to be worth replaying imo. They do the ripoff/repackaging of the original movies a lot more competently than the Disney movies do.
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Nov 11, 2019 14:45
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Ah yes a bad western attempt at Buddhism is exactly selfish pragmatism.
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Nov 11, 2019 14:58
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Colonel Cancer posted:Ah yes a bad western attempt at Buddhism is exactly selfish pragmatism. Siddhartha came to the Kessel Run
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Nov 11, 2019 15:07
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If you travel along a parsec and meet Buddha, space him.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:15
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What is the sound of one hand being chopped off by a lightsaber?
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Nov 11, 2019 15:17
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I think it was "Aaaaargh"?
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Nov 11, 2019 15:20
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Colonel Cancer posted:Ah yes a bad western attempt at Buddhism is exactly selfish pragmatism. Yoda openly urges Luke to let his friends be tortured to death by a ruthless dark wizard. He says that Luke should think of the consequences if he tries to help them: instead of risking himself now, Luke should focus on getting more powerful so that he can kill Vader later. Luke can’t believe this, the idea is horrifying to him. He even asks Yoda if he seriously thinks that Luke should just coldly let his friends be captured, abused, killed. Yoda answers simply yes. Buddhism is extremely pragmatic within the context of its metaphysics. Feelings tie you to the world so gently caress em. if you want to get enlightened you have to cut away the dead flesh first. The biggest difference between Yoda and Kreia is that Yoda frames his teachings as mysticism. He talks about feeling, instinct, the spirit, the invisible world. Kreia frames hers as philosophical instruction instead. She talks about social institutions like the Jedi and the Sith, she urges you to think about their ends and how they match up to yours. skasion fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Nov 11, 2019 |
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Nov 11, 2019 15:26
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Pragmaticism and denial of the self are like polar opposites
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Nov 11, 2019 15:27
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Palpatine did nothing wrong. He was trying to restore the Republic. The only person who knows the truth is Palpatine himself. Palpatine knew Vader would try to kill him, and he chose to save the young man so that he would die in the attempt. Vader was killed trying to save his master, and if the Jedi had survived, he would have been blamed. Palpatine knew Vader would do the same thing again. He gave him a choice. He would try to bring his master back, or he would end his life. Palpatine told Vader that if he chose to go back, the Dark Side would be his. He did so, and the Sith Lords fell. Palpatine left the planet, and the Sith Lords went into hiding. The Order would be left to deal with the Sith, as they did not know who they had become.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:36
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Colonel Cancer posted:Pragmaticism and denial of the self are like polar opposites Yoda doesn’t want Luke to deny himself just for the hell of it or to achieve abstract spiritual goals: he wants Luke to deny himself so that he can master his magic powers and achieve the goal of killing Vader. Luke ultimately decides that that’s bullshit and he’s going to instead live or die by his emotions and use them to subvert Vader rather than kill anyone. But he does this explicitly against what Yoda and Ben are yelling for him to do. Ben in ROTJ responds to Luke’s conviction that he shouldn’t have to kill his dad with a grumpy “well I guess fascism will just win forever then”. The fact that all these guys and Sebastian Shaw show up at the end to ghostly smirk at Luke’s success in getting the bad guys killed shouldn’t wipe out from our memory the fact that Luke only achieved it by explicitly disobeying what his masters kept insisting that he do. He chose to put his personal feelings above their ends-justify-the-means approach. That’s why Luke is wearing all black and a robot hand and choking people and chopping them apart with swords in ROTJ, the movie is pointing out that his refusal of Yoda and Ben’s teachings is leading him close to darkness.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:40
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skasion posted:Yoda openly urges Luke to let his friends be tortured to death by a ruthless dark wizard. He says that Luke should think of the consequences if he tries to help them: instead of risking himself now, Luke should focus on getting more powerful so that he can kill Vader later. Luke can’t believe this, the idea is horrifying to him. He even asks Yoda if he seriously thinks that Luke should just coldly let his friends be captured, abused, killed. Yoda answers simply yes. this is the dumbest take I've literally ever seen on this series. Also KOTOR was supposed to have taken place something like 3060+ years before the first death star blew up so I'm not putting a whole lot of narrative emphasis on that poo poo. Yoda says a lot of poo poo.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:49
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Big Beef City posted:this is the dumbest take I've literally ever seen on this series. Sorry if it hurt your feelings I guess? It’s right there in ESB. Yoda LITERALLY tells Luke he should just let his friends die.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:51
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No it's just quote:
Is the most rear end-centric dick-tied poo poo bag thing I've ever seen anyone ever write I had a hard time processing it.
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Nov 11, 2019 15:57
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Like I'd rather be dead than read that sentence again, and I will forever blame you for it.
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Nov 11, 2019 16:00
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Yesss Let the anger course through your veins as you post more about Buddhism
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Nov 11, 2019 16:06
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Big Beef City posted:Like I'd rather be dead than read that sentence again, and I will forever blame you for it. Let me help you "The nihilistic death cult know as Buddhism,"
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Nov 11, 2019 16:08
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Yoda isn't a Buddhist. He's a Jedi Knight with unfinished business.
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Nov 11, 2019 16:09
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skasion posted:the movie is pointing out that his refusal of Yoda and Ben’s teachings is leading him close to darkness. Not really. It brings him closer to Vader who is not lost/dead simply because he turned to the dark side. There is good in him. Luke is a Jedi like his father before him, not like these weird hermits.
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Nov 11, 2019 16:14
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Leia was supposed to be the "Last Jedi" in Episode IXquote:In the original version of the ninth and final installment, The Rise of Skywalker, [Luke's] sister, Leia (played by Carrie Fisher), was going to emerge as a full-fledged Jedi warrior, complete with her very own lightsaber. That’s according to no less an authority than Fisher’s real-life brother, Todd Fisher, who filled us in on what the plan was for his sister’s iconic character prior to her sudden death in December 2016. “She was going to be the big payoff in the final film,” Fisher reveals exclusively to Yahoo Entertainment. “She was going to be the last Jedi, so to speak. That’s cool right?” loving lol this would have been so incredibly stupid.
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Nov 11, 2019 20:09
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quote:That’s cool right?” N-no? That's not cool at all. It's the opposite. Do the people making these movies live in another universe
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Nov 11, 2019 20:17
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It’s like she died just to save us from that. She’s a loving hero.
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Nov 11, 2019 20:18
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piratepilates posted:N-no? A galaxy far, far away
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Nov 11, 2019 20:19
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piratepilates posted:Do the people making these movies live in another universe Yes, the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
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Nov 11, 2019 20:22
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Uh, what? Just, Leia, fully Jedi no explanation?
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Nov 11, 2019 20:22
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Disappointed we missed an elderly lady shambling about with a lightsaber walking cane
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Nov 11, 2019 20:26
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like Yoda fighting Dooku, just absolutely beating Ben's rear end and doing hella flips and spins
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Nov 11, 2019 20:33
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