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Basic Chunnel posted:It’s one of the best immersive sim things in the game (/ all games), in the sense that it presents you all the evidence to make a decision - it is patently obvious that he is an impostor and You Should Not Trust Him - but because Prey doesn’t really have cutscenes or explicit decision prompts (aside from the beginning and end), it freely lets you walk into an obvious trap. Players are so conditioned to FINISH ALL CONTENT and expect “are you sure??” decision points that they will up and expect the game to play itself before they’ll break quest sequence and double cross the volunteer before he double crosses you. I fell for it despite the signs. I thought the voice difference between the recordings and the actual chef was just a weird audio production oversight, and it never crossed my mind to mistrust him or maybe check on the chef's status in the crew roster. I'm such a sheep. 
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Nov 13, 2019 21:17
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Most developers don’t account for sequence breaking and will effectively punish you for being ahead of the game, locking you out of XP or loot or future quest lines for making the first move. You’re conditioned to let things play out and be reactive. Also reminds me of when the Apex appears and the game doesn’t actually tell you to save Alex but will give you a cookie if you drag him into his safe house and close the door.
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Nov 13, 2019 21:21
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Phigs posted:When does Mooncrash get good? Like it's fine now but it's nothing special from the base game because it doesn't seem to have started really doing its thing. I've just escaped for the first time with the first dude, second time playing for reference. By the time you unlock the janitor. That's when it really gets fun and starts to click.
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Nov 13, 2019 21:22
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Mooncrash’s narrative, such as it is, is baked into the characters’ personal quests. It’s achronologically presented in fragments, not so much like the main game.
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Nov 13, 2019 21:23
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Jan posted:I fell for it despite the signs. I thought the voice difference between the recordings and the actual chef was just a weird audio production oversight, and it never crossed my mind to mistrust him or maybe check on the chef's status in the crew roster. I'm such a sheep. I did basically the same thing, I thought there’s clearly something off about this guy… but maybe he still wants to be friends, I should help him
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Nov 13, 2019 21:25
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The robots at the end seem pretty happy with you if you get tricked, find dan sho, then dont kill the chef
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Nov 13, 2019 21:44
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revenge murder counts against you in the moral evaluation. Don’t allow yourself to be manipulated by Sho Dan
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Nov 13, 2019 21:47
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Basic Chunnel posted:Most developers don’t account for sequence breaking and will effectively punish you for being ahead of the game, locking you out of XP or loot or future quest lines for making the first move. You’re conditioned to let things play out and be reactive. My game told me to? I did get a quest to "Save Alex" and then lock the door. I really thought it was giving me a choice to either save them or save Dahl but it turned out I could do both! About the Chef, I spotted his mine and remotely disabled it before I talked to him. In that case he just croaked and died. From reading posts I guess he was supposed to blow up? I thought I missed some dialog where it would've been revealed he didn't have long to live. Oh well. Beat the game with the "most empathetic" achievement. 
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Nov 13, 2019 21:49
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Speaking of which, its funny that the final choice everyone talks abt isn’t the actual final choice - the decision to join the resistance or kill everyone, allowing you to ironically disprove the entire premise of the game. Arkane is good.
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Nov 13, 2019 21:49
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Mike the TV posted:By the time you unlock the janitor. That's when it really gets fun and starts to click. Yeah it's this. Aside from the story related to that character, more features, difficulty, and time crunch get enabled in the simulation which makes the whole thing a lot more hectic.
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Nov 13, 2019 21:56
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Basic Chunnel posted:Most developers don’t account for sequence breaking and will effectively punish you for being ahead of the game, locking you out of XP or loot or future quest lines for making the first move. You’re conditioned to let things play out and be reactive. That’s one of the reasons why I really appreciate the neuromod system making the game EXPless, I never feel like I’m screwing myself if I don’t take a certain approach or let quests play all the way out. Same thing with Far Cry 5 replacing experience points with challenges to unlock skill points.
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Nov 13, 2019 22:09
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LifeLynx posted:My game told me to? I did get a quest to "Save Alex" and then lock the door. I really thought it was giving me a choice to either save them or save Dahl but it turned out I could do both! He had a cyanide capsule in his mouth, because that brilliant fucker was not messing around.
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Nov 13, 2019 22:11
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BaconCopter posted:Or just zap/kill him when he opens the freezer door for you! It's things like this that make Phantom Genesis one of my favourite powers. Some people just have it coming, you know? Ugly In The Morning posted:That’s one of the reasons why I really appreciate the neuromod system making the game EXPless, I never feel like I’m screwing myself if I don’t take a certain approach or let quests play all the way out. Same thing with Far Cry 5 replacing experience points with challenges to unlock skill points. I agree that it's a smart system. I think the first Deus Ex did a good job with XP, which you got mostly from completing objectives regardless of how, and for exploration. Games that give XP for killing enemies tend to be games where the player is going to kill all the enemies. In Prey's case, it's the question that immersive sims always have, how do we reward the player for exploring and engaging with the world? And making the thing that makes the character stronger a physical object in the world is a good way to do that.
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Nov 13, 2019 22:38
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^^^  yessssPhigs posted:When does Mooncrash get good? Like it's fine now but it's nothing special from the base game because it doesn't seem to have started really doing its thing. I've just escaped for the first time with the first dude, second time playing for reference. Things start escalating... a lot. The more characters you have unlocked the harder your runs become. More, stronger enemies. More environmental changes and gently caress ups. It ends up pretty crazy. There are lots of cool strategies for beating it (ie escaping with all 6 characters with no deaths).
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Nov 13, 2019 22:55
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Basic Chunnel posted:It’s one of the best immersive sim things in the game (/ all games), in the sense that it presents you all the evidence to make a decision - it is patently obvious that he is an impostor and You Should Not Trust Him - but because Prey doesn’t really have cutscenes or explicit decision prompts (aside from the beginning and end), it freely lets you walk into an obvious trap. Players are so conditioned to FINISH ALL CONTENT and expect “are you sure??” decision points that they will up and expect the game to play itself before they’ll break quest sequence and double cross the volunteer before he double crosses you. I'm only slightly disappointed that they didn't make it into an ending. Oops bad luck, the freezer really is air-tight and you can't get out. The end. With a comment from Alex about how stupid this particular Typhon seems to be.
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Nov 13, 2019 23:12
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So this whole time I've been thinking that things look kind of wrong. Screens are super-bright and hard to read, and the flashlight badly washes everything out, but at the same time dark areas are really dark, so turning down the brightness makes them basically pitch black. And the lighting overall just doesn't feel like I remember. At first I suspected I had somehow badly hosed up the calibration on my monitor, but tinkering with it produced little in the way of improvement.  Last time I played I had the Real Lights + Ultra Graphics mod installed, and this time I forgot to install it. Did that and now things look much better.aniviron posted:I agree that it's a smart system. I think the first Deus Ex did a good job with XP, which you got mostly from completing objectives regardless of how, and for exploration. Games that give XP for killing enemies tend to be games where the player is going to kill all the enemies. In Prey's case, it's the question that immersive sims always have, how do we reward the player for exploring and engaging with the world? And making the thing that makes the character stronger a physical object in the world is a good way to do that. SS2, DX, and Prey all did this well -- you get cyberwafers/neuromods/XP primarily for exploring, and secondarily for completing objectives and advancing the plot, regardless of how you do either. This is one of the things that really disappointed me about DX:HR. ToxicFrog fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 03:38
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Basic Chunnel posted:revenge murder counts against you in the moral evaluation. Don’t allow yourself to be manipulated by Sho Dan On Danielle: Shodan suffocating in a space suit seemed real dumb.
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Nov 14, 2019 03:45
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ToxicFrog posted:So this whole time I've been thinking that things look kind of wrong. Screens are super-bright and hard to read, and the flashlight badly washes everything out, but at the same time dark areas are really dark, so turning down the brightness makes them basically pitch black. And the lighting overall just doesn't feel like I remember. The original DX having the augs as a second, world-based progression system was great. Where HR went wrong was having the praxis kits you find in the world just be level ups instead of doing anything special, so it really was all XP all the time for progression. Then they also hosed the XP balance by making non lethal takedowns give more, and it also discouraged finding passwords because hacking gave XP and goodies.
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Nov 14, 2019 04:58
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Ugly In The Morning posted:The original DX having the augs as a second, world-based progression system was great. Where HR went wrong was having the praxis kits you find in the world just be level ups instead of doing anything special, so it really was all XP all the time for progression. Then they also hosed the XP balance by making non lethal takedowns give more, and it also discouraged finding passwords because hacking gave XP and goodies. not sure what the exact formula is, but mankind divided gives you some xp for unlocking things with a found code/password (it's not without issues, but MD's Prague is phenomenal. it at times gave me that Prey feeling of slowly taking apart this massive, detailed, freely explorable space. and almost all of it is optional.)
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Nov 14, 2019 05:12
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ToxicFrog posted:I'm gradually coming to terms with how many safes I can't open by realizing how many places I can get into really early on by turning myself into a coffee mug. I've actually never used a Typhon mod, I was excited when I was playing through someone else calling the shots, they were going to use Typhon mods it seemed but we never really got very far before it stopped. I need to go back and try it, I've had a small taste from Mooncrash since some characters already had em I didn't have to make a choice. Mike the TV posted:Speaking of stealth, it's one of the least utilized aspects of the game. I wasted so much time being stealthy, at some point I convinced myself that maybe it was like a thing where it's outright bad to kill them and it'll come back to haunt me later, or a spooky MGS3 and have the typhons I killed come back to haunt me in a river. I started engaging more when I realized rooms were ramping up with difficulty in enemies regardless of whether I killed em or not. Plus the mimics generally felt unavoidable, like, 2spooky2ignore. "What do you see... the shape in the glass?" is burned into my head from hearing it so often just lurking around patrolling phantoms. Rinkles posted:not sure what the exact formula is, but mankind divided gives you some xp for unlocking things with a found code/password Been playing MD recently and it's a lot better than I expected. It definitely has some boneheaded moments and a weird structure, but it's definitely one of the more detailed and explorable hubs in these games. It also has the shortest power curve I've ever experienced in an immersive sim. Basically as soon as you get the option to choose your build, you basically have all the tools you need to get in anywhere and pass even fairly difficult checks.
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Nov 14, 2019 05:37
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Oh, Mooncrash has a timer. Whelp. I'd be a little less pissed off at developers putting mandatory timers in games if it was just my problem, but whenever you look up "<game> timer" there's inevitably tonnes of complaints about the timer if the game has one. It should just be something you can change at this point, like hotkeys or colors. Anybody got a let's play recommendation?
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Nov 14, 2019 05:52
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I actually really like how the modern DXs handle hacking. It's real time, it requires your attention (without testing your manual dexerity too much), and can require additional resources (especially MD) without any guarantee of success*. So deciding to hack a console within a patrolled area can be very tense. In HR I did hack stuff just for the xp and software (which yeah is kinda bad), in MD I'm finding it's often not worth the risk/time if there's an alternative, and like I said, passwords now give you xp. I think maybe they overdid it with the hacking complexity in MD, but I'd absolutely take this system over Prey's. *Not sure how I feel about multitools, which can autohack anything. They're one use only and aren't instantaneous, but you can craft them and require no skill investment. Khanstant posted:Been playing MD recently and it's a lot better than I expected. It definitely has some boneheaded moments and a weird structure, but it's definitely one of the more detailed and explorable hubs in these games. It also has the shortest power curve I've ever experienced in an immersive sim. Basically as soon as you get the option to choose your build, you basically have all the tools you need to get in anywhere and pass even fairly difficult checks.
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Nov 14, 2019 05:53
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Yeah I spent the same amount of time before going on to the very urgent required quest where he asks you to come in to work in the morning. I had basically explored everywhere possible before even slightly moving on, which ironically cut me out of a big bit of game because I took out a mob boss early without even talking to them. I didn't find MD's hacking complex, it mostly feels random, just rolling the dice on each node and spamming every possible node and fortifying when you finally get a bad roll. Then again, sometimes some hacks clearly had more thought put into them and were like a little puzzle, but you do have a point with it being a little too-involved for something you might do several times each time you poke your head into a new interior space. Also, hacking sometimes was a letdown because you'd unlock a computer with nothing on it, not even an email.
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Nov 14, 2019 05:58
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Phigs posted:Oh, Mooncrash has a timer. Whelp. I lost a lot of hair to Mooncrash so I can relate, but this is essentially asking the developers to make a different game. Just fyi, know that there's an item that you can find and eventually craft (of course, it's Prey after all) that rewinds the timer a bit. Khanstant posted:Also, hacking sometimes was a letdown because you'd unlock a computer with nothing on it, not even an email. Yeah Eidos Montreal have nothing on Arkane in that department. Also just the sheer amount of codes you find. If the game didn't save codes for you, I'd have no idea what half of them opened. Prey doesn't vomit them out, and is usually better at establishing their context and making that memorable.
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Nov 14, 2019 06:06
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Phigs posted:Oh, Mooncrash has a timer. Whelp. People have complained about it, but please give it a chance. The timer is extremely forgiving and basically acts as a dynamic difficulty setting. You're not going to get booted out of the simulation for running out of time without trying pretty hard to make that happen. Items that extend the timer are pretty common and are also craftable, both in and out of the simulation. The game starts making a loud noise and gives you plenty of time to open your inventory and pop a time extender before the current timer expires. Each timer is geometrically longer than the last, the level 1 timer goes by quick but the level 5 timer lasts an eternity. My recommendation is to ignore the timer until you're almost at the end of the level 3 timer, and then only use the time items if you really don't want an area to reset because you're almost done cleaning it out or finishing an objective.
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Nov 14, 2019 06:29
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I started this game a while ago, got to around the part where you get the head scanner thing, and just got distracted by life (and other games) for a while. Earlier this week, I picked it back up again and I've been going pretty strong. I cleaned up a few side quests and got the Q-Beam in the Hardware Labs that I'd missed the first time because I don't think I had the repair skill to fix the door to keep the breach from making those labs off to the side (Q-Beam and Recycler Grenade, or whatever they're actually called in-game) inaccessible. I also made a bunch of progress on the main quest - Psychotronics, GUTS, the Arboretum, Crew Quarters, Deep Storage, and I just got to the Cargo Bay today (probably missed a couple areas in there). Once I got rid of the DRM on the fabrication plan for neuromods, I ran out of synthetic material making them and had to recycle-grenade a couple of labs worth of equipment to feed my eye-needle addiction. I think once I get done in the Cargo Bay, I'm going to work on the "find thing to stop the Nightmare" quest, because it shows up all the time and either runs at me and kills me in one hit (except for when I came back to the Arboretum and it couldn't get through the doorway to the stairwell), or I have to transition back to the previous area and sit around for 3 minutes. I've done pretty well at not clicking spoilers in this thread, but people were talking about the cook quest, so now I'm going to add my own.  I didn't have an option to confront him about obviously not being Will Mitchell - he doesn't look or sound anything like him. So when he wanted me to go into the freezer where he keeps "the other puppets they sent after me," I declined by shooting him with the stun gun, then locking him in the freezer. Then Sho-Dan wanted me to kill him for killing her ex-girlfriend, and I did because I've gotten to like the not-D&D crew (I've got all their maps, now I just need to find the right areas for 3 of them). Also, she's dead now because I didn't open the other data vault thing, right? I was going to, but then I got the call from Igwe and a timer popped up, so I kinda went for that right away instead, and then I just followed him inside. Her last message sounded like she was running out of air in there. It's too bad, I was enjoying having another competent and alive person doing things on the station, and that name is too good for this game to waste like that.From what I'm reading, going human-only neuromods the first time through might not have been the best choice, but I've got a good chunk of time invested so far, and I recently maxed out slow time, the wrench-smack line, security weapon damage, and both gun-modding powers, so I've become a lot more powerful than I had been used to. I used to sneak around until I saw something/it saw me, then shoot it with the pistol while backing up and trying to hide. Now, I sneak around with the scanner to mark enemies, then stand up and run directly towards whatever I'm fighting: mimics get the wrench, and anything bigger gets stunned, time slows down, and they get either shotgunned or wrenched until they're just pieces. For anything that doesn't work on, the Q-Beam is a good backup, even if it's not the fastest thing in the world. I also discovered last night that the stun-gun drops humans unconscious, except for maybe on a headshot - I accidentally killed a couple people in the cafeteria and I'm pretty sure that's the reason. Earlier, I had dealt with the greenhouse in the Arboretum by luring the thing outside where I'd put a bunch of turrets, then shooting it while it was shooting them, because I didn't realize I could have just stunned all the people inside. I'm glad I came back to this game, because it's very good. Fifty Farts fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Nov 14, 2019 |
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Nov 14, 2019 07:05
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IIRC, there are some dead bodies in Crew Quarters that are always there (not including folks who might wander through the jets of fire in the pool corridor while you're out somewhere), but more to the point, I think killing either a Nightmare or a Telepath when they're close to puppets will kill the puppets. I might be wrong on that, but in any case the stun gun shouldn't kill puppets under any circumstances.
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Nov 14, 2019 07:20
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didn't know the nightmare could puppeteer
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Nov 14, 2019 07:26
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QuarkJets posted:People have complained about it, but please give it a chance. frankly it's quite easy to trivialize the whole shebang by crafting enough hourglasses to stay permanently on 1
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Nov 14, 2019 07:29
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Rinkles posted:didn't know the nightmare could puppeteer It can’t, but I think when you kill it there’s a psionic blast effect in short-mid range
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Nov 14, 2019 09:22
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LifeLynx posted:My game told me to? I did get a quest to "Save Alex" and then lock the door. I really thought it was giving me a choice to either save them or save Dahl but it turned out I could do both! I didn't spot the mine in the escape pod. I blundered into its range, and barely escaped when it triggered. That was a wonderful moment of hoisted by his own petard. The operator still considered that I killed him, which meant "I had a strong sense of justice", and I still got "most empathetic". Speaking of Danielle Sho - I'm not sure if she ran out of air or not. On my playthrough, she did go silent for quite a long time after "Mitchell" was dead, but I'm sure she made comments when Dahl showed up, specifically when I was trying to disable my tracking device.
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Nov 14, 2019 14:15
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There's no set point at which she dies, but if you've made contact with her she will call you, while clearly in the process of suffocating, to tell you that you can disconnect your tracker (which ends the automatic spawning of operators wherever you are). She'll remind you one last time of what she expects you to do.
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Nov 14, 2019 16:58
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I had 20 hours in MD before I left prague for the first time to go on the first non-intro mission. My brother told me he did the same thing when he played it. while the hub being that detailed and intensely packed with secrets seems like a good thing, there’s a point where it ends up kinda breaking the game’s economy because you can just freely amass countless supplies at the very start of the game. it also interferes with the pacing because if you can keep going through secrets and new things to explore in front of you, there’s no mechanical reason not to, so there’s not really a balanced tempo to how long you spend in and out of missions in the game (it’s very frontloaded). I think there’s probably a sweet spot for how long exploration and secret finding should take, which I’d say dishonored 1 probably hit the best due to its art style making lootable things visually stand out and not going too overboard with every single random room containing sixteen little things to find. MD’s still a hair underrated though.
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Nov 14, 2019 17:22
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has anyone used Real Lights plus? https://www.nexusmods.com/prey2017/mods/22?tab=description I get terrible shadow res from dynamic self shadows, which kind of gets mentioned but not if its actual *this* terrible all the way through due to "engine limitations" 
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Nov 14, 2019 20:23
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Phigs posted:Oh, Mooncrash has a timer. Whelp. It's a timer in the same sense that the Moon is a timer in Majora's Mask. It's not there to make you fail, it's there as an actual gameplay mechanic to progress the game loop. It's just weird because Mooncrash is just this separate game that's attached to an immersive sim, but if you liked the game mechanics of the main game, you're doing yourself a disservice by throwing out the entire thing because ~*timers*~.
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Nov 14, 2019 20:52
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*boots up Super Mario Brothers* TIMERS? *throws NES controller on the floor*
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Nov 14, 2019 21:24
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I saw the chef in an audio log and it gives you a little picture of his face. This old dude with a big nose who talked with no accent? It was a pretty good “perceptive” thing to help you know the “chef” wasn’t for real.
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Nov 14, 2019 21:44
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Gay Rat Wedding posted:I had 20 hours in MD before I left prague for the first time to go on the first non-intro mission. My brother told me he did the same thing when he played it. while the hub being that detailed and intensely packed with secrets seems like a good thing, there’s a point where it ends up kinda breaking the game’s economy because you can just freely amass countless supplies at the very start of the game. it also interferes with the pacing because if you can keep going through secrets and new things to explore in front of you, there’s no mechanical reason not to, so there’s not really a balanced tempo to how long you spend in and out of missions in the game (it’s very frontloaded). I think there’s probably a sweet spot for how long exploration and secret finding should take, which I’d say dishonored 1 probably hit the best due to its art style making lootable things visually stand out and not going too overboard with every single random room containing sixteen little things to find. I've been feeling and fearing this myself, but regardless of how it affects the rest of the game, I think it's a wonderful experiment. To an extent it doesn't matter what's beyond it, because Prague in and of itself is an experience like no other.
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Nov 14, 2019 22:35
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Bogart posted:I saw the chef in an audio log and it gives you a little picture of his face. This old dude with a big nose who talked with no accent? It was a pretty good “perceptive” thing to help you know the “chef” wasn’t for real. i think you mean This old dude with a big nose who talked with an American accent
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Nov 15, 2019 04:30
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The old dude with a big nose and an American accent who definitely wasn't fat as gently caress
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Nov 15, 2019 04:37
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