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TKIY posted:I can't even get the least bit excited about 40K. AoS is faster, more fun, more varied, and in our local area the players are way less toxic.  AoS plays so much faster than 40k it is unreal. I have to say that I think wounds carrying over is my favorite thing about the system. Your big monster that is 300 points really feels like something that can put out damage like a 300 point unit of infantry. Love throwing out 15 wounds and killing 15 Goblins, not just really killing the hell out of 5 of them. If something get "higher strength" attacks, easy to just have it do more wounds. Double turn is something I don't love, but I like a whole lot more than I expected to. Gives you some incentive to try some bolder movement choices and I think the added risk adds variety. And it is childishly simple rule to change if your local play group can't handle the pressure. I really hope 40k 9th goes even closer to AoS. Just having two thematic missions in every army book would be a great idea.
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Nov 13, 2019 12:45
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| # ? Jun 4, 2024 17:55 |
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Wounds carrying over is one of my favorite things about AOS, that and taking turns to select units to fight, rather than all the chargers automatically going first. I really wish the last one was ported directly into 40k. The first would require balancing. I also think that for the most part, fixed ‘to wound’ values doesn’t actually differ that much from 40k. It’s much more granular to be sure, but generally the big heavy weapons (whether they’re thunder hammers or plasma canons in 40k, or giant clubs and canon balls in AOS) will need a low number to wound, and tiny light weapons need a high number. 40k adds vehicles/knights to that, but for the most part, it’s not that big of a difference. WRT positioning, it’s kinda different from 40k because there is no ‘within an inch of a dude within an inch’, it’s just the reach of the weapon, which is simpler and also means that it’s actually quite important how you position your dudes. A 3 inch pile-in only gets so many of your dudes in range, and equally important the more of your dudes you get in range, the more dudes the opponent will fight back with, unless you wipe them out (which is more or less likely depending on who is fighting who). There really is a surprising amount of tactical importance to how you position your dudes and not just who gets to charge, and the more strategic aspects of objective/battlefield control. Double turn can go gently caress itself though, I really think it is the single determining factor in waaaaay too many battles (if not like half).
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Nov 13, 2019 13:33
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proper positioning is actually a thing since charges aren't targeted and the fight phase can cascade if other units end up in pile-in or even just weapon range. The double turn is something that I can *almost* see working through stuff like good mission design and other rules giving you a reason to go second even if you win the initiative. Hell one of the last games I won I specifically kept taking the second turn in spite of winning the roll-off because a) I had a predatory spell in play and b) you got bonus objective VP if you had the bottom of the turn.
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Nov 13, 2019 15:11
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I'm a huge hater of the double turn, but the rest of AoS is solid for a fun wargame. Endless spells seem like a whiff though. Paying points for something you only get to control half the time leads to people just taking the buff or static ones instead of predatory ones. Then you have stuff like the endless "prayers" that only the owner gets to control, even if it's predatory.
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Nov 13, 2019 17:14
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Floppychop posted:I'm a huge hater of the double turn, but the rest of AoS is solid for a fun wargame. That's why the Bonereapers endless spells kick rear end. Soul binding should be an option across the board.
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Nov 13, 2019 17:33
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AoS has some issues, and it's sad that the Old World had to die for it, but ultimately it's so much better as an actual game than WHFB or 40K and the new models are so good that it's hard to care.
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Nov 13, 2019 17:42
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Besides, you can't do this with any 40K models: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiJyAngzRRg
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Nov 13, 2019 19:17
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The double-turn can be really off-putting at first but now its just part of how the game works for me. It can seem massively unfair but its part of the risk of electing (or being forced) to go first in a turn. In 40k, going first is almost a non-brainer decision. You get to fight and do damage first and there is very little at risk. For AoS, if you go first in a round, you get to maneuver first and do your spells/shooting first but have to face the potential to going second in the next round. There are also situations where you may decline to double-turn your opponent because you are then placing yourself at the same risk on the next battle round (for example, if going second in the first round and then you win initiative in the second round. If you take the double turn, you open yourself to be double-turned on the third round which is usually a much more critical game turn). Another mitigating factor is that activating units for the combat phase (the main way you do damage) always alternates between the players (charging does not give priority as in 40k), so they only get to fight with one unit first before you can reply in kind (getting around this is why Always Strikes First units are really powerful). It still is way too influential to the flow of the game and many games come to winning initiative on the fourth or fifth round. However, you can probably say the same for the influence of initiative roll on the first turn of 40k and at least in AoS there is a chance for a reversal. What I see as encouraging is that other GW game systems are trying out alternative turn structures (Apoc, Warcry) so at least we can see how they play out without it causing a massive fuss in 40k. For less ranty content, my stormcast at my local Armies on Parade - started them in January. I need to finish a 5-person Liberator squad and then I'll be at a fully painted 2000pt army. 
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Nov 13, 2019 20:45
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I virtually always choose to go second. The only time I remember double turning someone is on that mission where you can burn objectives.
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Nov 13, 2019 21:00
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The key factors to AoS to me is that line troops actually loving matter and do something. You don't just take them as a tax so you can get access to stuff that actually matters. The worthwhile nature of line infantry and all the game systems that make that so leads to many/most of the armies actually looking cohesive and awesome. Way better than 40k where ideal Death Guard army includes 0 plague marines and is actually chaos soup and not DG at all. Miss me with that please. Not trying to be toxic, but both the AoS/40k ruleset are outdated and there are so many better game systems that have come out. When I want to play AoS/40K it is primarily to see a bunch of sweet models and is basically to just look at pretty toys and justify painting them. Because of that, I find it a dealbreaker in 40k where every army is this weird hydra amalgam that contains the few if any signature troops and is just big vehicles and weird poo poo and nothing else. None of the armies look like loving anything other than a collection of random models. I don't have anything against competitive play, but if I want to play competitively there are like a million better games where playing competitively is actually interesting and fun.
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Nov 13, 2019 21:27
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I think I have passed the desire to have Boneboyz, ... however , those Varanguard look pretty sweet.
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Nov 13, 2019 23:04
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Mugaaz posted:The key factors to AoS to me is that line troops actually loving matter and do something *laughs in Seraphon* 
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Nov 13, 2019 23:05
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Boing posted:*laughs in Seraphon* Skinks and Saurus Warriors are amazing what are you talking about
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Nov 13, 2019 23:11
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Boing posted:*laughs in Seraphon* We have skinks, the best battle line in the game. *pushes saurus and knights out of view while maintaining eye contact*
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Nov 13, 2019 23:12
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Mugaaz posted:The key factors to AoS to me is that line troops actually loving matter and do something. You don't just take them as a tax so you can get access to stuff that actually matters. The worthwhile nature of line infantry and all the game systems that make that so leads to many/most of the armies actually looking cohesive and awesome. Way better than 40k where ideal Death Guard army includes 0 plague marines and is actually chaos soup and not DG at all. Miss me with that please. What are the cream of the crop re: table top war game systems? Stuff with more decisions and more nuanced decisions would be sweet.
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Nov 14, 2019 00:16
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Harvey Mantaco posted:We have skinks, the best battle line in the game. Skinks are great but they're far more effective being summoned than being in your army list so it feels like a tax when I take them. I run them in units of 10 which never score a single wound on anything but just hold objectives and run away constantly. They're good at that but I'd rather spend the 70 points on a razordon or a starpriest or something, and just summon the skinks. My saurus have never achieved anything though. I miss the days of WHFB 6th ed when they were as beastly as chaos warriors and among the best infantry in the game, now their models make them look really gormless and their stats are "like an orc but with half the wounds"
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Nov 14, 2019 02:39
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Boing posted:I run them in units of 10 which never score a single wound on anything but just hold objectives and run away constantly. Yes, they are the most mobile BL in the game, especially considering charge/fall-out sling shotting, denying the other play turns of attacking by screening like bastards and falling back 3 inches constantly. And they just. Keep. Coming. If they actually could do damage as well I'd just run 270 of them, a slann and be done with it, lol. My saurus are constant disappointments as well.
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Nov 14, 2019 02:56
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:What are the cream of the crop re: table top war game systems? Obviously just my opinion. I like Infinity the best. The missions and scenarios lead to people needed to tailor lists for every tournament. There is incredible depth and options for both building and real-time decision making during games. It is very rare to see the same netlist type builds, because the optimum list will have to change for every tournament based on the missions they selected and what you expect other players to be doing. Learning the game is a total nightmare, and is just too difficult to be enjoyable unless you can get an experienced player to show it to you. I love Warhammer Underworlds as a game. I would say it is like half board game than table top wargame. The gameplay is good and can be very engaging when both people know what they are doing and trying to advance their goals while preventing yours. It has some problems that the best strategies seem to remove as much interaction as possible. Getting the cards needed for true competitive play is an exceptionally annoying business model. I enjoy playing it against friends with house rule that decks can only include core set cards + cards from the warband you are playing. Aristeia! is very similar to Underworlds in concept and even more of a board game than skirmish game . Much, much less annoying business model than Underworlds. Very different thematically with a very interesting opposed dice system using custom dice. Being completely honest, I havent found a single good fantasy rank and file game. AoS just wins for me because it has amazing models and creative armies, while being a game system it is easy to find pickup games for. KoW/9th age are a joke IMO. I loved Warmahordes for a long time, and it is still a good game. I just don't have any interest in playing it anymore. Even if I did, I don't think the future is very bright. I haven't played Malifaux 3rd ed. I've heard good things from several people, but it is not my thing.
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Nov 14, 2019 03:31
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Infinity in my experience is two hours of constant checking the manual to see what level 3 combat jump does.
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Nov 14, 2019 05:59
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TKIY posted:Infinity in my experience is two hours of constant checking the manual to see what level 3 combat jump does. Yeah, I felt this way for over a year.
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Nov 14, 2019 07:27
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https://twitter.com/MengelMinis/status/1194995049840467970 Warhammer Legends rules? Who knows.
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Nov 14, 2019 17:26
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Cooked Auto posted:https://twitter.com/MengelMinis/status/1194995049840467970 that's clearly square e: gonna laugh when they allow ranked infantry in AoS and people rebase their armies a second time back to squares lol
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Nov 14, 2019 17:44
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Nebalebadingdong posted:that's clearly square Square Bases??!! I'm torching my army.
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Nov 14, 2019 17:55
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Thank you for the input my friends. I am always looking for a good strategic table top game to play, but have honestly felt pretty disappointed by most of them.
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Nov 14, 2019 17:59
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For a while, Black Library sold old edition of the WHFB rulebooks for players who wanted to continue with Old World games with square bases. Now that AoS has its own legs under it, it makes sense to let FW pick up the old game. I hope.
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Nov 14, 2019 19:20
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...I literally just spent the past two weeks rebasing almost a hundred cities-compatible minis don't you dare do this to me gw.
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Nov 14, 2019 20:19
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Clearly it’s the announcement of a new mordheim with square bases retained 
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Nov 14, 2019 21:37
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There's still time to do it for the 20th anniversary of Mordheim, but my hopes can only get so high.
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Nov 14, 2019 21:57
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Finished up 10 chainrasps, I'm up to 40 now.
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Nov 15, 2019 05:35
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Chainclaw posted:Finished up 10 chainrasps, I'm up to 40 now. Your ghosts are good. Thanks ghosts. Thosts.
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Nov 15, 2019 06:54
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpnLjwOn5tg So for all intents and purposes it looks like they're bringing back WHFB as the Horus Heresy equivalent to AoS. Question is of course how changed the ruleset will be, I guess we'll find out later today.
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Nov 15, 2019 13:36
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Finally, I'll be able to buy Tomb Kings again. Right?
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Nov 15, 2019 14:22
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The Deleter posted:Finally, I'll be able to buy Tomb Kings again. They did a few tomb kings heroes as made to order like a year ago so i assume they got the molds gathering dust somewhere.
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Nov 15, 2019 14:23
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The Deleter posted:Finally, I'll be able to buy Tomb Kings again. To be fair, you can buy Tomb Kings now, but it's going to cost you like two hundred bucks a box.
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Nov 15, 2019 14:43
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I hope that rather than going back to square bases they instead go with movement trays for round bases. I'm loving the idea of them re-releasing the Old World though because I didn't get into it until Total War and immediately felt like I missed out on an awesome setting.
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Nov 15, 2019 14:46
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Cooked Auto posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpnLjwOn5tg Not going to lie, I'm down for this. I hardly ever played WHFB back in the day, but I did enjoy assembling and painting a couple of armies (Dark Elves and a human Chaos Undivided army) for it, so I'd be happy if they did some of that older stuff again in newer plastics.
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Nov 15, 2019 15:53
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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/11/15/old-world-new-warhammer/ Article up, nothing solid about it but it will take at least a couple of years for it to happen so don't get too excited.
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Nov 15, 2019 16:01
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A somewhat simplified 7th edition ruleset with 6th edition books that were modernized to have consistent rules and power levels would be the greatest thing. But yeah being three years off puts a damper on it.
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Nov 15, 2019 16:08
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Just bring back setra as a order hero with anti-nagash skills
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Nov 15, 2019 16:09
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"Please wait warmly" as a blogpost, huh? Well, I wasn't going to be in a rush to get anything but I was keen to see what it was. I'm more interested in the pretty blatant hint of stuff from Hysh at the end there. Will we finally get the High Elf replacement people want? Or will it be some endless spells or something?
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Nov 15, 2019 16:18
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