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if you keep voting for the lesser of two evils, then that’s the choice you’ll be offered forever
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Nov 17, 2019 19:55
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It is far better for a campaign to actually canvass and have a platform that's made for voters and not for donors, the sooner the radical centrists who keep wandering into this thread realize that and stop trying to apply their deranged ideology to reality the better
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Nov 17, 2019 19:56
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I usually just tell them that I wish them luck in finding disaffected Republicans looking to cross over but that a highly conservative platform isn't something I'm willing to support on account not being highly conservative The sense of entitlement from the libs is incredible sometimes, like how they got furious that a SOCIALIST org said they're only ever gonna endorse a socialist, but Manchin and Sinema say they'll vote for Trump and along GOP line is whatever. It's only a horrible betrayal if your reason comes from the left lol
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Nov 17, 2019 20:03
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This is the level of incompetence of the democrat establishment. It does not matter if you personally vote for them, they will gently caress it up and you will never not look like a moron for insisting they need our vote https://mobile.twitter.com/RachelRGonzalez/status/1195766370010464256
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Nov 17, 2019 20:11
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sorry folks its bernie or bust now. its either bernie wins in the primary or all his supporters stay home and trump wins. thats just a fact
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Nov 17, 2019 20:11
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Philthy posted:this is exactly how we ended up with trmp Most of us (including me) voted for Hillary in 2016, and that went up in smoke when she lost the most gimme election of all time and then she ran off into the woods and blamed everyone but herself for it Bernie campaigned harder for her than Hillary herself, and then him and russia were blamed for the loss by the democratic elite and their sycophants because they refused to do even a slight amount of introspection on why that might have happened Now we are facing down the apocalypse and the great liberal hope is a lady who stole and watered down Bernie's platform, just gave a huge signal that she won't follow up on any of it when she gets elected, has no strength to contest the widely hated establishment she has kowtowed to and we expect her to stand against Trump when he inevitably attempts to launch a coup?
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Nov 17, 2019 20:12
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when i point out that bernie probably won’t have the votes in congress to enact his agenda y’all tell me it’s not about that, it’s about building a long-term movement away from succ dems. which is good, yea, sign me up that’s just wildly inconsistent with the idea that this election has to have a quick victory that delivers big change within 4 years or give up and let the fash take over we’ve been through this before. we need progressive dems at all levels of government, especially congress, to get poo poo done. it’s a long term project. the short-term doomsday rhetoric is poison. it points all the grassroots energy into the presidential election for the big win instead of laying groundwork by working for progressive primary candidates downballot. and... it’s exactly the narrative used to push primary votes to status quo candidates like biden based on ~electability~
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Nov 17, 2019 20:13
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Terror Sweat posted:sorry folks its bernie or bust now. its either bernie wins in the primary or all his supporters stay home and trump wins. thats just a fact there are likely many people who do not vote or have never voted before who will come out to vote for bernie, but not for “the system as it is but not so embarrassing” (every other candidate). we will know one way or another after iowa, if bernie gets way more than polls indicate then he has activated an unengaged group who yeah, will probably not vote for another nominee in the general
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Nov 17, 2019 20:14
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:when i point out that bernie probably won’t have the votes in congress to enact his agenda y’all tell me it’s not about that, it’s about building a long-term movement away from succ dems. which is good, yea, sign me up it’s not entirely about a long term movement either. it is about having a president who will encourage the populace to force the legislative branch to submit to the will of the people due to fear of being forced out, and due to the pressure of things like general strikes and workers movements. electoral politics on their own have accomplished almost nothing of note in history
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Nov 17, 2019 20:17
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Agean90 posted:This is the level of incompetence of the democrat establishment. It does not matter if you personally vote for them, they will gently caress it up and you will never not look like a moron for insisting they need our vote This does not surprise me at all lmao
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Nov 17, 2019 20:18
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There's always going to be dead enders for any candidate in a primary and they're always a small minority. A candidate capable of winning an election is going to find voters to replace the ones who refuse to vote for anyone who isn't their preferred candidate. They're easy to blame but they're the wrong people to blame. Bush had more Florida Democrats vote for him than Nader did but Nader takes the blame
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Nov 17, 2019 20:21
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Epic High Five posted:This does not surprise me at all lmao I guess he did the classic liberal trick of trying to invent loyal black friends?
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Nov 17, 2019 20:23
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:when i point out that bernie probably won’t have the votes in congress to enact his agenda y’all tell me it’s not about that, it’s about building a long-term movement away from succ dems. which is good, yea, sign me up Shock and awe and mass mobilization can get the goods. Plus there's a whooooole shitload of stuff that he can get done without Congress having a say at all, stuff that progressive heads of administrations can do or undo, and lots of fun parliamentary stuff Progressives and socialists are already making headway in state and lower offices, it's not being ignored. How do you think the entire party is basically starting where Bernie is on every position before traingulating away?
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Nov 17, 2019 20:24
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:when i point out that bernie probably won’t have the votes in congress to enact his agenda y’all tell me it’s not about that, it’s about building a long-term movement away from succ dems. which is good, yea, sign me up Executive order. E: Bernard mentioned this but, I don't know how it would work; reassign beer judge and plagiarism judge to low tier courts. Azuth0667 has issued a correction as of 20:29 on Nov 17, 2019 |
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Nov 17, 2019 20:26
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:when i point out that bernie probably won’t have the votes in congress to enact his agenda y’all tell me it’s not about that, it’s about building a long-term movement away from succ dems. which is good, yea, sign me up executive orders can forgive all federally held student loans, legalize marijuana, expunge drug possession convictions, shut down the camps and ICE and CBP while we're at it, and make companies more afraid to fight unions than workers are afraid to start them. there is a lot to win in the short term.
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Nov 17, 2019 20:27
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Not to mention office appointments for federal agencies, which has a massive effect on what those agencies overall goals are.
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Nov 17, 2019 20:29
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Feldegast42 posted:Bernie campaigned harder for her than Hillary herself, and then him and russia were blamed for the loss by the democratic elite and their sycophants because they refused to do even a slight amount of introspection on why that might have happened Agean90 posted:if a campaign loses to Trump it's entirely their fault and to say otherwise is to excuse the incompetence of the powerful Azuth0667 posted:We ended up with trump cause superdelegates overrode popular sentiment and gave us a terrible candidate: hillary clinton.  as ive already pointed out itt, Hillary was the anointed one in 2008 yet barack HUSSEIN obama edged her out. if you can’t overcome some superdelegates how the gently caress do u expect to overcome GOP scorched earth tactics and spineless centrist dems in congress?
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Nov 17, 2019 20:29
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:
stop ignoring all the posts that are telling you the answer, which is mass protest and direct action. we will force the politicians to bend to our will or we will grind the country to a halt
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Nov 17, 2019 20:30
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:when i point out that bernie probably won’t have the votes in congress to enact his agenda y’all tell me it’s not about that, it’s about building a long-term movement away from succ dems. which is good, yea, sign me up This is what Republicans did and the federalist society is going to have like a hundred judges with lifetime appointments by the time trompb leaves office. They started working on that when newt was speaker.
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Nov 17, 2019 20:32
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Post some Trump voters realizing they're gonna die, jesus christ https://twitter.com/EliseStefanik/status/1196150464083050496
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Nov 17, 2019 20:49
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it should be mentioned that even excluding everything, vote blue no matter who just isn’t a winning strat. It’s consistently failed and for good reason.
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Nov 17, 2019 20:51
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Doc Hawkins posted:executive orders can forgive all federally held student loans, legalize marijuana, expunge drug possession convictions, shut down the camps and ICE and CBP while we're at it, and make companies more afraid to fight unions than workers are afraid to start them. there is a lot to win in the short term. for context, the supreme court has yet to decide whether or not trump can round up and deport the DREAMers that obama protected by executive order some of them can be undone by the next gop president and others will be blocked by the SC immediately. and it doesn’t get us closer the kinds of programs like M4A and GND that are the supposed focus of dem primary battles im not trying to say these things aren’t great and worth fighting for but again, it’s a humble set of short-term goalposts compared to the rhetoric itt used to justify sitting out the general if bernie doesn’t win the nom spacemang_spliff posted:This is what Republicans did and the federalist society is going to have like a hundred judges with lifetime appointments by the time trompb leaves office. They started working on that when newt was speaker. yup!
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Nov 17, 2019 20:58
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:for context, the supreme court has yet to decide whether or not trump can round up and deport the DREAMers that obama protected by executive order D I R E C T A C T I O N, you dense lib
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Nov 17, 2019 21:00
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I put this in the PNW thread in D&D but it’s just such a funny drat quote I want to share it wider. quote:“It is our determination that the Nickersons did not uphold their obligation to the contract,” Bundy said, “and that forceful removal of the family from the property was warranted to protect the rights of the bank’s shareholders.” https://www.oregonlive.com/nation/2019/11/far-right-activist-ammon-bundys-rush-to-save-an-idaho-ranch-ends-without-standoff.html
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Nov 17, 2019 21:01
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:
You entire point hinges on some other centrist somehow getting their agenda done, assuming the don't just lie and become republicans. I will not vote for a centrist and every single time you or someone else tries to convince others to do so they lose anyway.
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Nov 17, 2019 21:02
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DragQueenofAngmar posted:stop ignoring all the posts that are telling you the answer, which is mass protest and direct action. we will force the politicians to  u can do that right now, u don’t need bernie for that
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Nov 17, 2019 21:02
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:
haha holy poo poo you’re loving hopeless. yeah, there’s no difference at all between now and having a president who openly supports things like a general strike and is able to amplify and strengthen the message, that’s just exactly the same situation! no way could that be energizing for massive amounts of people who could be inspired to participate in demanding change, that’s crazy
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Nov 17, 2019 21:06
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DragQueenofAngmar posted:haha holy poo poo you’re loving hopeless. yeah, there’s no difference at all between now and having a president who openly supports things like a general strike and is able to amplify and strengthen the message, that’s just exactly the same situation! no way could that be energizing for massive amounts of people who could be inspired to participate in demanding change, that’s crazy fair enough. my original point was that in a scenario where bernie can’t overcome the ~democratic establishment~ by mobilizing his core electoral constituency, we probably aren’t in a reality where a pres. bernie could successfully mobilize large scale direct action, which is a more significant commitment than primary voting. but this is getting too far off thread topic and im not even claiming to know whether we do live in that reality or not. so i will stop now.
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Nov 17, 2019 21:38
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:fair enough. I guess that would depend on how much we can publicize it if he’s ratfucked. if he just doesn’t have the lead going into the convention, then yeah that would mean he doesnt have enough sway, but if he has the lead and isn’t able to get the % to win outright bc the DNC has seeded the field with a bunch of wreckers designed to put everyone below the threshold so they can pick who they want, that event could also be a huge mobilizer to fight the political establishment. sorry for going 0-100 which is not terribly productive, I’m angry and overwhelmed all the time and my state is totally captured by republicans. I do still think there’s no point in voting for anyone but sanders but I probably shouldn’t have fulfilled the left wing infighting meme
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Nov 17, 2019 21:47
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It's Bernie, bitch
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Nov 17, 2019 21:51
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Rape Stink posted:That's literally as bad as trump, just without the national embarrassment of having a moron president give word salad speeches -- which seems to be the #1 concern of most libs. You honestly think this? "The number one concern of most liberals and democratic voters is the incoherent poo poo Trump says at his rallies?"
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Nov 17, 2019 21:53
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I mean they pine for Obama so yeah
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Nov 17, 2019 21:55
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Dixie Cretin Seaman posted:
Reagan lost to Ford so clearly he can never beat a Democrat 
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Nov 17, 2019 22:01
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Epic High Five posted:
Says the guy that will sit out the election if his preferred candidate doesn't get the nom. I have my own deep rooted preferences for 2020 but I am going to crawl across broken glass for whoever the democratic nominee is because I live in a swing state and the stakes are too high. I know they say that every year but they're not wrong. This poo poo has been building since I was born and is steadily getting worse. I've voted 3rd party/write in before for various reasons but when I'm staring down the reality of Donald Trump then, yeah, Biden it is if it comes to that. Call me an enabler if you want.
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Nov 17, 2019 22:02
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BiggerBoat posted:Says the guy that will sit out the election if his preferred candidate doesn't get the nom. It's messed up that you can't vote for the candidates you actually want if you live in certain states.
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Nov 17, 2019 22:03
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politics is about voting for the candidate that best represents you, it’s not a team sport
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Nov 17, 2019 22:05
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Agean90 posted:This is the level of incompetence of the democrat establishment. It does not matter if you personally vote for them, they will gently caress it up and you will never not look like a moron for insisting they need our vote How could Bernie do this
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Nov 17, 2019 22:06
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imagine, for example, how much easier existing organizing activities will be if the NLRB isn't actively hostile to them, and is instead helpful to them. I don't understand this notion that the left isn't organizing at local or state levels, it reveals a profound misunderstanding of what's going on. The DSA worked harder in the rust belt to win votes for Clinton than Clinton did and even just locally we've secured expanded public transit, eliminating cash bail, and serious pushback against private developer monopolies in just the last few years. The notion that the left should focus on small stuff and leave the federal-level stuff to "the sensible moderates" is disgusting and paternalistic even before you analyze the actual records of the so called sensible people BiggerBoat posted:Says the guy that will sit out the election if his preferred candidate doesn't get the nom. I live in Indiana and literally no Dem will win this state except Bernie. If you want to crawl over broken glass to support a guy who holds you in contempt and promises to govern to Obama's right then fuckin' go for it, it doesn't matter because the millions who will sit out for an uninspiring or lovely candidate will make your vote irrelevant. Have fun defending Biden begging and weeping for the Republicans to come to their senses as they continue to dictate national policy as though they had won after all if that's your thing like none of these other Dems are even promising to govern significantly differently than Trump lol, you should probably believe these people when they tell you who they are
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Nov 17, 2019 22:17
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CharlestheHammer posted:politics is about voting for the candidate that best represents you, it’s not a team sport
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Nov 17, 2019 22:18
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BiggerBoat posted:You honestly think this? I know quite a few liberals who talk more about how vulgar and embarrassing he is than the cruel things he's done
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Nov 17, 2019 22:23
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